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NoelVeiga

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I have been light on GB stuff recently, but I gotta admit, Brad willingly choosing the hardest of four difficulties and then whining about the game being too hard for an entire Quick Look has been a nice shot of nostalgia.

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NoelVeiga

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Alright, you wanna know my favorite design bit in this game?

If you align your nunchuck to whichever bit of ground Mario is standing on (sideways, upside down, whatever) the stick orientation is always as if the camera was behind Mario's back.

Seriously, try it. It actually makes the flippy sections a lot easier to play.

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Edited By NoelVeiga

@theborree: @dasakamov: Just so we're clear, I'm perfectly fine with all those criticisms and sympathise with anybody who is disappointed by this thing. What threw me for a loop was misrepresenting what is actually in the game (whatever they meant, they said what they said, and it's not correct), and then deferrig to Reddit to actually explain why people would be pissed with this.

It's not a huge deal when it's just a matter of taste. Even if you say something factually incorrect about a game when explaining why you just don't enjoy it that's fine, your experience is your experience. However, in a thing like this, where a bunch of people are super angry in ways that aren't always super rational, and with the context of how situations like that have gone in the past, I wish they had taken it from a different angle.

Does that seem fair?

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@dan_citi said:

@noelveiga: Not gonna lie, that old one looks dingy, badly proportioned, and awkward; the new version looks worlds better.

And I never understood the hub-ub around hero units. They were just another mechanic in the game, just another thing to use that had unique trait and usage. When the unit was cool, it was fun. That being said I've never touched Warcraft 2 at all and probably never will (it was really old and didn't seem all that special by the time I was aware of it), so that addition to the series never seemed major to me.

Well, here's the thing, the original is a very early 3D RTS and to their credit they avoided the mistakes of many other early 3D RTSs by still managing to give each unit a super recognizable silhouette...

...from the top.

It all goes like this with this game. They couldn't do as many units as Starcraft because of the 3D thing, and the camera needed to be up close, so they pulled it all back into the micro, which is why there are hero units and all the special abilities and stuff. Helps them keep the hardcore, high-APM gameplay from Starcraft without being able to throw hundreds of zerglings onscreen.

And even before the downgrade I thought it was super weird to try to give everyone realistic faces, because man, the visual outlines in this thing are so over the top, just to try to make units distinct. They look cartoony *for a reason*. Arthas' tiny remake head and blocky hair were already like that on the "good" trailers, and it was probably already a bad idea there.

I don't know what they should have done to make this right, all I'm saying is they definitely didn't just upres the old assets and call it a day.

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@brad said:

@noelveiga: I guess I forgot the part where we said absolutely nothing was changed in this release, although I do remember the part where we zoomed in on the character models to point out that they look better.

Oh, go on, really? The literal quote I was reacting to is:

"So once I got in here and started playing it I was like "this looks... quite a bit like I remember."

"This looks like Warcraft III"

"Yeah. I mean, side by side, if you look at it, you know, there are higher... higher textures"

"The stone on the building probably looks a little better. The armor..."

"Obviously you can see Arthas has a new design here, if you remember the dopey face he used to have". They redid the character portraits and stuff, but I don't think I need to relitigate all the stuff going on with Reddit and so forth."

So yeah, that implies that maybe they tweaked a thing here and there but the game still looks largely like the original. Which it does not. Every asset is revised. There are visual features missing and they didn't redo all the cutscenes as they had said they would, but by "not relitigating it" you DID say in so many words that this doesn't seem like a full remake, which is not quite true.

I get it, it's hard to be funny, compelling and informative all at once in a live, off-the-top-of-your-head one take thing like this, but Ben literally goes "this looks like Warcraft III", which this does not at all. Considering how unreasonable angry gaming fans can get with this sort of stuff I don't like relying on "you absolutely obviously already know and understand the fan gripes about this game on Reddit, so I'm just gonna joke about it in ways that are not accurate and keep going".

And hey, I obviously like you guys and your stuff, I just don't think you did this one justice by coming out of the gate with a joking, inaccurate statement and then reluctantly pointing out the times after that point when it turns out that they did redo a bunch of scenes and all the visual assets. I just don't think it's the right approach.

Respectfully, dudes. I think there's a big relevant conversation here about how bound you are to a target once you put it out there and about what happens if you just aren't gonna hit that target. Should they have cancelled it instead? Maybe. I'm not sure. It's complicated. Should you buy this? Maybe. Just make sure you check out what you're actually getting before. Is it good? Dunno. Probably depends on what you wanna do with it. I just don't think you guys engaged with what's actually going on particularly well in this, being perfectly honest.

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Edited By NoelVeiga

Look, I'm not saying you can't be disappointed, but that stuff does NOT look like the original. This is what Arthas looked like in the original, according to giant bomb dot com.

No Caption Provided

I don't feel about this very strongly. I am already not a fan of Warcraft III as it is (and no, Ben, hero units suck and everything they led to sucks also and screw MOBAs), but sometimes you have to be... you know, cautious about letting your memories of an old thing go unchecked when evaluating something like this in public.

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@briarpack: Oh, I assumed you knew, for sure. It's just that you tagged the guys so it felt reasonable to thread it together in case they're curious :)

And yeah, man, that NY track is fairly bland. But hey, I get it, they don't have all the money in the world and they want to be able to say they have a race in New York, so driving through warehouses is still better than nothing, I suppose.

Honestly, urban tracks make for good TV flybys but kinda suck otherwise. Most Formula E races this year had multiple safety cars and every time anybody even looks at a wall funny half the racers pile up in a rush hour gridlock. I get that it's part of their identity, but they had a couple wider tracks this year and it's clearly so much better.

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Edited By NoelVeiga

@vinny@alex Street circuits are on closed-off public roads. One of the most famous races in the world, the Monaco Grand Prix, is on the streets of Monte Carlo:

Loading Video...

To address the stuff they mention in the thing directly, here's crazy future electric cars that sound and look like Wipeout cars driving through New York.

Loading Video...

The vast majority of Forumla E races are urban circuits, this is not that rare.

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Edited By NoelVeiga

@dedbeet said:
@noelveiga said:

This show is fun (less fun than Sunshine, though), but it's great to show people how hard it is to make games, also.

Curious of why you feel this way. I agree with you, but it's because I found Sunshine more enjoyable to watch. I feel the overall game show craziness is higher in BMB.

I guess I just felt the balance of playing games vs shenanigans was better there? The game was good enough to play but bad enough to be funny and the loops were tight enough that the whole dumb metagame sort of meant something.

And if I have to see that intro to the dumb wheelspin another twenty times per episode I may set the internet on fire. Cause as fun as seeing Dan lose his mind as a crazed game show host can be... it's not as fun as the crew think it is.

EDIT: For the record, as I said the first time, I do like the show. One can like a thing and see issues in a thing. You just asked why I liked Sunshine more, and that's why I like Sunshine more. No biggie, we all have favourites.

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Edited By NoelVeiga

Besides the factual errors others pointed out... the TOCA franchise was very much not about multiple disciplines, considering that TOCA is literally short for TOuring CArs and a specific licensed organization. They did start going in that direction pretty fast, though. I wanna say TOCA 2 already threw in some non-Touring Cars events. The Grid name change is how they made that shift officially, though.

The differentiator for the franchise was always the "it's the career of a single pilot end to end". The first TOCA, which is still my favourite, had a bunch of management sim-ish stuff in it, with team changes, sponsorships and that sort of thing. It also had a full blown story mode with cutscenes and a named cast of characters. That's why they're still doing teammates and rivalries with characters.

Also, TOCA kinda came out after the Colin McRae games went away. It's wedged in there between the late McRae games nobody cared about and the reboot as Dirt that brought it back to the relative mainstream.

Oh, and @player242, the Alonso thing is a sponsorship deal. If you go watch the marketing for this game, Alonso is out there racing games journos and giving interviews. Guess he doesn't have anything better to do these days, and that Dakar run ain't gonna finance itself.