onan's forum posts

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#1 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

Except SMT Alice has no stated connection to the Alice of Lewis Carroll. There is nothing in her description as a Persona nor in her original appearances in games like SMT I & II that in any way refer to her as the storybook character. The only direct reference that I'm aware of didn't even come until Strange Journey, when she's involved in a sidequest about locating the Hare of Inaba, which she immediately begins torturing when you help her find it. Otherwise, she's just a young girl with an appearance and name that match the Lewis Carroll character, but she is not the Lewis Carroll character.

These are video games. Appearance and name literally define something like half of the "characters" in this database.

On the complete flipside, (Wind Waker spoilers) Tetra gets lumped in on Zelda's page when 1) She isn't actually Zelda, just a re-incarnation or descendant or something, and 2) she's got her own look, personality, and name. There are more than a few entries on here where if you drill down deep enough into a game's fiction, ultimately one character is technically also another character so they're merged as an entry, and honestly, that's kind of messed up too. Like the thing with Tetra, the search hit itself is a massive spoiler that presents itself in the search field. (Classic example, try looking for a certain character from Deadly Premonition. Or don't, if you haven't beaten the game or watched the endurance runs yet.)

My point is that sharing an appearance and a name with another character isn't really a good justification for merging or maintaining separate pages. Back on topic, I haven't played any of these, but hypothetically Satan from the upcoming South Park game will almost certainly be different from the Satan portrayed in Dante's Inferno. I'm all for a Satan concept and individual entries where the character isn't completely trivial in the context of the game. I just doubt an overhaul like that will get approved (and that's a shame).

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#2 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@Hailinel: Hey, I agree with you 110%, I feel they should be separate, but I'm giving use cases as to why things shouldn't be collapsed down into one parent entry when it's pretty clear these characters based on mythological, historical, or literary sources are not ultimately the same thing and shouldn't necessarily be merged.

Bringing it a little closer to home, you're the #1 contributor to the SMT version of Alice, which for all intents and purposes should share a page with American McGee's Alice and Disney's Alice since they're all clearly based on Lewis Carroll's Alice.

Again, not saying they should be merged, just saying it's far too subjective and something that should instead be addressed by wiki rules regarding these public domain characters instead of a gut feeling of if a character is actually divergent enough from the source material to warrant their own page.

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#3 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

A character like Goku that's only inspired by Wukong and not actually Wukong is not the same as two figures that are the same character.

I've seen a lot of both, either completely different characters having the same name and being lumped together, or the exact same character with different names treated differently.

In this case, "Son Goku" is "Sun Wukong" in the transliterated Japanese. Same dude, same name. Rides a cloud, has a monkey's tail, becomes superpowerful due to martial arts, hangs out with a monk, etc. It's the exact same base character that eventually diverged when he grew into his own character. Sort of like what they did with all the Greek gods in the God of War series. Also exactly the same thing they did with Diablo, which is why I don't think we're looking to merge with Satan in this case even though they probably should since it's just "Devil" in Spanish.

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#4 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@Mento said:

I'm liking the public domain character page idea. The issue seems to be that there are all these famous literary and mythological figures that so many game developers are using as a basis for their own unique characters with the same name and many of the same traits. If we simply make a page for that universally acknowledged figure that exists outside of games and then include every interpretation with its differences in that page somewhere, that might a start. If, as Praxis says, it might make those pages cluttered and inadequate in scope.

But what could be ideal, and probably wildly impractical right now, are sub-pages for series-unique character interpretations. Like how regular games might (or already do? I haven't used seaserpent's wiki tools much) have sub-pages for their DLC (and perhaps their portable versions, since someone was griping about how divergent they can sometimes be a while ago). When it comes to the list that tells you how many games have "Satan" in it, the main page would include all instances of both his "classic" interpretation and that of all his game-specific interpretations, with each of the sub-pages just listing the games featuring their respective interpretation alone. Maybe put it in the code that when a game is added to one of the sub-pages would instantly add it to the core page's master list too.

I dunno how far along that sub-page implementation is, but it sounded like one of the big new features they were planning to introduce. It'd give editors ample room to just go hog wild if they wanted to write a thousand words about the James Woods Disney Hades (and why wouldn't they? It's James Woods) without making the core page look too busy and oddly lopsided towards that specific version of the character.

Agreed. Otherwise You'd have to merge the Goku page, the Son Goku page, the Son Gokuu page, the Monkey page, the Wukong, the Monkey King page, and every other character based on the character Sun Wukong, the Monkey King in Journey to the West. (Wait, THAT doesn't have a concept page?)

Really, mythology, literature, all of these game characters based on these historical characters are trying to parlay the zeitgeist, the cultural touchstone into something more for their game interpretation. As far as games go, these characters are all concepts that never actually appear in a game because they're not game characters. As soon as any sort of character building happens at all, they cease to be just a reference to something outside of the game. Public domain characters should be concepts so they can be attached to the derivative characters appropriate (i.e. not as a "related character"). It would be a huge mess initially (the Dynasty Warriors characters alone... yikes) but is ultimately a way better direction to go in.

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#5 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@runcrash said:

This is the second Kickstarter i've backed. The first was Double Fine Adventure.

I'm in for $150. I'm not rich by any means, but how often is one afforded the opportunity to get their name in the credits of the sequel to one of his top ten favorite games of all time? I couldn't pass that up.

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#6 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

For all their effort, they couldn't make the Impossible possible.

No Caption Provided
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#7 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

I really hope report on this, it would be incredible if they were able to get more eyes on this new kickstarter-funded update to The Longest Journey franchise that we've been wanting to see for like 7 years now and hopefully help make it happen.

@Ryanmgraef said:

Should i buy the Xbox originals version this game?is it fun?

Get it as a bundle on Steam or individually atgog.com, Higher resolution, better textures.

(Also, get The Longest Journey and play that first, then Dreamfall.)

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#8 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

Wait, Achievements are going away?? Why are Achievements going away? 90% of the reason I started using giantbomb was because of the great achievement aggregator that let me see everything at a glance.

This is horrible. Can anyone recommend an alternative? (Other than Raptr, Raptr is really cumbersome.)

And Quests! Oh man. This makes me so sad.

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#9 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

@mattgriffin said:

Judging by what Brad said about Leviathan in the GOTY 2012 stuff, you should definitely include Leviathan in your first go. Apparently it factors into the story quite a bit and adds something substantial as far as narrative goes.

If by substantial, you mean it adds foreshadowing, context, and all of those things writers do so that the ending of a story makes any sort of logical consistency with the rest of a story at all, then yes.

Of course, that also means you miss out on all of the righteous indignation the rest of us had when the game was released in an unfinished state and in doing so miss out on the camaraderie... although that might get supplemented by the shock at realizing you just paid extra for something you couldn't fathom Bioware being able to tell the story without.

I really liked From Ashes, but it came with my Collector's Edition so I didn't have to decide to buy it. In retrospect, I probably would have been disgusted that was a paid add-on as well of some very core lore content.

The only real "add-on" content so far has been the Omega stuff, and it doesn't feel like just a cash grab. It's a side story. The rest is all kind of gross (not counting free multiplayer DLC)

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#10 Posted by onan (1352 posts) -

"A gallery of innocent and often sexualized depictions of women is what you'll find, and it’s what I’d surmised about the genre during my brief investigation into it. I wrote it off, truth be told, and didn’t feel bad. Who would want to play that?"

Why wouldn't anyone want to play that? It sounds like every other game released ever, except it forces people to read more.

If we can take off our politically-correct hats for a moment, there's some good fun to be had in some of the visual novels that get easily dismissed otherwise. And it's not just a one way street, there's are entire visual novel categories geared toward women and gay men (although in Japan, women are the #1 consumers of VNs featuring male-on-male romance). Sexualized depictions can be fine in the right context. Adult games: That's the right context. As a bloody torso with a great rack that gets bundled with the Dead Island 2 Collector's Edition: Not the right context.

It's just a pretty bad double standard though when you're willing to accept the dim sexy teenager who exists solely to get naked and then get murdered in your typical slasher flick, yet cluck your tongue at similar behavior in a different (and much less mature) medium.

Personally, I can't truly understand why people would willingly subject themselves to horror games, but to each his own. Anxiety, stress, fear? No thanks.