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OrangePylon

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Why I think it's hard for GB to diversify the staff.

It looks like Giant Bomb's new hires are turning into a bit of an issue, and not because of their unspellable last names.

So Dan and Jason are white dudes. Lots of folks were hoping that the new hire would be a woman or a member of a minority group. Patrick Klepek's interest in the polarizing "feminism and minority representation in gaming" debate has, in turn, cultivated a crowd of duders and duderettes who want to see more diversity in the Giant Bomb cast of characters. With all of the gaming diversity debate shitstorms on GB, it might seem hypocritical that they ended up hiring two white dudes anyway. Since this is a personality-driven website, it's natural for people to want someone they can identify with for the sake of discussions and reviews/quick looks, so I fully understand the desire to see a female or minority staff member. However, I also think this view is misguided and shows a lack of understanding of the range of abilities a person needs to have in order to do what Giant Bomb does.

Giant Bomb needed to hire people who are well-established, experienced, and skilled in this weird on-camera video game personality field. They needed people who can produce high-quality content without a long gestation period to learn the craft. Otherwise you're just asking for shitty, boring, awkward, meandering content. There are very very few people in the world who have that kind of experience, who have proven themselves capable of producing great off-the-cuff content and discussion about video game bullshit. Out of that already narrow pool, how many are women or minority? It's probably not a lot. That's a sad fact of this subculture, it happened to start with nerdy white dudes, then stereotyped as something that only white guys did for so long that the scene has become extremely protective of its demographic. In this kind of environment, it makes sense that the most able candidates for something like a Giant Bomb staffer would end up being white dudes. It's incredibly unfortunate, but that's the world we live in.

You could argue that maybe they could hire a less experienced or skilled candidate for the sake of an alternate perspective, and maybe grow their skills from there. I don't think Giant Bomb can afford to do that with its paid full-time employees. The value of this site's content rests in how well you know these people and their quirks, so the site needs to stay somewhat "small" in order to retain the audience familiarity. Because the staff needs to remain small, yet still consistently produce interesting and popular content, every single member of the staff needs to be at the top of their game. It's not the kind of place that can act as a proving ground for the inexperienced, unless CBSi wants to bring in some interns (which would be great!), but every paid full-time employee of this ramshackle operation needs to be pretty damn good, because every weakness will chase off subscribers and further polarize the community. Youtube and Twitch are the proving grounds, the place for the inexperienced to hone their skills and hopefully make connections. Giant Bomb just can't afford to take on an inexperienced unskilled candidate no matter how interesting their background might be, because an alternate viewpoint is worthless if the person isn't able to articulate it well on camera/microphone, or slows down the workflow behind the scenes.

Furthermore, I don't think you need someone with a particular skin color or sex organs in order to discuss and point out issues of gender or racial stereotyping or discrimination. I think you're gravely underestimating the intelligence and awareness of the GB staff if you think they're part of the gender or racial inequality problem in gaming culture. They're not just "white guys", they're also adult humans with fully-functional brains, and they work very hard to make this website and its content inclusive, so it can be enjoyed by everybody. For example, I think the way they react to stereotypical depictions of women in video games is the right way for this website: they mock it, they treat it with sarcasm and ridiculousness, with maybe brief discussion about what's wrong. They usually do not get too serious or overly "political" (for lack of a better word), because that is not the tone that brings people to Giant Bomb. Patrick catches a lot of shit for mentioning and discussing the issues, but that's mainly because the issues themselves are controversial, he doesn't actually focus on that stuff much more than the other serious topics he discusses. Anyway, the staff's race and gender aren't preventing them from keeping this site inclusive (Jeff's rap lyrics notwithstanding).

On a side note, I bet someone's gonna make the argument that a female or minority staff member would make the rest of the staff far too guarded and careful on anything involving gender or race, and the content would become more awkward and stilted as a result. That kind of thing only really happens with people you don't know very well, GB is close-knit by nature so I don't think that kind of guardedness would happen. You can cross certain barriers around friends that you wouldn't cross around acquaintances.

My point is, Giant Bomb can't just "hire a woman" or "hire a black guy" or "hire a genderless purple thought entity". Above all else, they need people with mastery of a certain rare combination of abilities, which gives them such a narrow pool to draw from that requiring a particular combo of genes would just not work. GB is still expanding, maybe in the future they can find someone who comes from a more interesting background and possesses the skills they need to grow the site into something even dumber.

I'm speculating a lot here, though. What do you folks think?

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truthtellah

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@joshwent said:

@terror_shart said:

In the end i just feel bad for Jeff, Drew, and Brad...this has been a real rough year for GB and bringing in Dan kinda feels like filling a giant hole in the site.

All they need to do is make a press release!

"Giant Bomb never intended to make any form of social commentary with the hiring of Dan and Jason. This site represents a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that Giant Bomb was intended to be a whimsical and quirky site, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary."

Wait... no. That might not go over too well.

Ha!

Okay, at least one good thing came out of this thread. Well-played, joshwent.

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cyberfunk

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@sergio:

@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

I do agree though that since they are such a small crew they cant really experiment with diverse new hires ala kotaku/polygon.

Polygon isn't that diverse. The majority are still white men. Dan was hired as a senior editor at Giant Bomb. How many senior editors at Polygon aren't white men? Zero. Kotaku at least has one woman on their editorial staff. Even then, Jason Schreier tends to keep me away from that site.

For Polygon you got: Danielle Riendeau, Jenna Pitcher, Tracey Lien, and Emily Gera to name a few

For Kotaku: Tina Amini, Patricia Hernandez, and Leigh Alexander.

Though, as I said before: a bigger staff makes it easier to employ women.

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spraynardtatum

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In the end i just feel bad for Jeff, Drew, and Brad...this has been a real rough year for GB and bringing in Dan kinda feels like filling a giant hole in the site. Im sure they had absolutely no interest in causing controversy....these hires feel like getting the site back on track and preparing for the future of Giant Bomb. After all the shit these guys have gone through, it really sucks for others in the industry to sling rocks and arrows at the site.

Exactly! Giantbomb isn't run by Mr. Burns.

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diz

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@joshwent said:

All they need to do is make a press release!

"Giant Bomb never intended to make any form of social commentary with the hiring of Dan and Jason. This site represents a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that Giant Bomb was intended to be a whimsical and quirky site, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary."

Wait... no. That might not go over too well.

The problem with that is that there are elements of the editorial team that do openly try and provide social commentary. I think this has amplified this ridiculous backlash against two of the best fit hires that this site could acquire.

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Hailinel

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@yummylee said:

@cyberfunk said:

What I fear most about these new hires is not that they're caucasian males (although its related) , Is that they seem (although admittedly this is just a first impression) too much like the rest of the crew. Dan is a wrestling fan and Jason seems really into street fighter. Sounds familliar? I just hope that they can bring something else to the table that Jeff and the others do not. A woman for example, could've at least brought a female perspective on some issues in gaming. I just hope these new guys dont just end up being "yes men" and agreeing with everything, because some of the best moments in the bombcast are the deep discussions and disagreements on some games like the Jeff/Brad FPS discussion and the GOTY fights. I guess time will tell. I do agree though that since they are such a small crew they cant really experiment with diverse new hires ala kotaku/polygon.

Yeah, absolutely. A common criticism I've held over Giant Bomb is more often than not during most discussions they all tend to ultimately agree with one another or quietly concede (especially when Jeff's leading the discussion). Your example of the discussion between Jeff & Brad and FPS' is the perfect example of what I'd like to see more of, too. The actual discussion was kind of a mess as neither was making that good of a case, but it was still great to hear them actually holding their ground with their thoughts and making an effort to build a debate around it. It brings to mind Siskel and Ebert and how often they tended to argue, which I'm sure was part of the appeal of listening to them talk because of their difference in opinion and their confidence in exercising it.

At first glance Dan in particular looks like the sort of guy who clearly shares a lot of tastes and interests to Jeff... however it's also but only a first glance as I don't know much about him besides that he's a fellow wrestling fan (but unlike Jeff seems to genuinely enjoy the medium unironically?). Hopefully he'll surprise me as time marches on.

Basically what it comes down to when I think about bringing in more diversity is a diversity of opinion and tastes, and not of the person's colour of skin or gender. Sure, different backgrounds can certainly attribute to a difference in perspective, but that isn't always necessarily the case. Anywhoo I don't want to sound too down on these hires as I'm genuinely curious in witnessing where things lead, especially in conjunction with GBEAST!

These are the same sorts of criticisms that I have as well. I don't hold it against the staff that they hired Dan and Jason. I'm sure that they're great guys, but it also in a way feels like more of the same. I don't really expect to see the new guys push Jeff and the others in new or interesting directions, although I could be pleasantly surprised. It'll be fun to see things shake out.

And then I saw this, this morning:

No Caption Provided

Really, Leigh. Really? This is the perfect example of a not-at-all constructive argument. It would not be a shame at all if a talented female writer were to be hired at Giant Bomb.

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DrDarkStryfe

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@droop said:

Guess I'll post it here then

No Caption Provided

#shotsfired

Guess she deleted the tweets again.

This site cheered and just said "Oh that's just him" when Dave Lang got embarrassingly piss drunk and was on that GDC livestream. Leigh does the same years ago, and she is still bashed for it.

It is pretty damn embarrassing that the community still rides her for that, when is practically celebrates it when it is someone like Lang.

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Animasta

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Ugh, this thread fucking sucks.

Everyone's raging on people who are mad that they didn't get a job and are tweeting whilst mad. Or even mad about a different matter (if anyone wants to debate that Leigh gets way more shit than she deserves on this site...), but instead all we're doing is raging against people that AREN'T POSTING HERE.

Nobody's debating with anybody, we're just going "YEAH FUCK THOSE PEOPLE" and it's terrible. For the record, I don't care about whether the new hires were women or not. but all this raging about people not actually here... it's super echo chambery.

I fully agree with what Leigh tweeted though. If it were literally anyone else besides Carrie, the amount of shit they would get would be immense.

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RonGalaxy

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So leigh alexander hates giant bomb???? I actually think the community here is pretty level headed. Not really sure where she's coming from. Maybe she's mad about the $775,000,000 incident?

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musubi

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People like Leigh are sabotaging their own cause with silly sour grapes comments like that. I can't and will never take anything that woman says seriously. All she does is throw temper tantrums. While regularly making snide and sneering comments about men in her articles and on twitter.

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ElixirBronze

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wow... I feel like at this point the reactions to the reactions to the new hires got way overblown and way bigger than the original reactions were in the first place.

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terror_shart

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@joshwent said:

@terror_shart said:

In the end i just feel bad for Jeff, Drew, and Brad...this has been a real rough year for GB and bringing in Dan kinda feels like filling a giant hole in the site.

All they need to do is make a press release!

"Giant Bomb never intended to make any form of social commentary with the hiring of Dan and Jason. This site represents a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that Giant Bomb was intended to be a whimsical and quirky site, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary."

Wait... no. That might not go over too well.

The wrestling fan in me wants to see them just go full heel and play in to their new image of being over-the-hill, racist, homophobic, misogynist purveyors of games nonsense

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Video_Game_King

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I'm remembering this one set of Japanese game reviews that (at least for me) served as a good argument for more diversity. Plus it doesn't boil down to "just because they're Japanese" or anything like that.

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BradBrains

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wow... I feel like at this point the reactions to the reactions to the new hires got way overblown and way bigger than the original reactions were in the first place.

this.

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Animasta

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@elixirbronze said:

wow... I feel like at this point the reactions to the reactions to the new hires got way overblown and way bigger than the original reactions were in the first place.

this.

yep

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andmm

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@elixirbronze: Well, my reaction to your reaction of the reaction of the original reaction is that I concur. Does't make the original reaction any less stupid though.

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truthtellah

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I may not agree with her, but if anyone has reason to hate the GB community, I'd say Leigh Alexander does. If those tweets are genuine, I wouldn't really be surprised. I might be rather angry at folks, too, if they felt like harassing and talking crap about me for years for getting drunk once.

(and no one needs to tell me how she's horrible other times and thus deserving of your wrath. I get it)

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cyberfunk

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Dont worry guys I'm sure TV Guide's Robyn Ross (@RobynRossTVG) will join Giant BEAST soon after she discovers the magic of Castlevania with Vinny.

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sweep

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@hailinel said:

No Caption Provided

It's not like @patrickklepek is featuring her articles in his Worth Reading write-up pretty much every week and redirecting our userbase to her blog. Oh wait...

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spraynardtatum

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So leigh alexander hates giant bomb???? I actually think the community here is pretty level headed. Not really sure where she's coming from. Maybe she's mad about the $775,000,000 incident?

Patrick almost always has one of her articles featured in his Worth Reading threads. I do notice that people talk shit in the comments about her sometimes (saw something last week) but there's usually someone there calling that person out too. I don't know...if she's pissed she's pissed.

I think this community is pretty great too. Except Gregg. Gregg can fuck the fuck off.

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truthtellah

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@animasta said:
@darkstalker said:

@elixirbronze said:

wow... I feel like at this point the reactions to the reactions to the new hires got way overblown and way bigger than the original reactions were in the first place.

this.

yep

I'm still a bit flabbergasted by what initial reaction anyone is even talking about.

I know some people said things on Twitter, but that's Twitter. As far as actual folks on Giant Bomb bringing up concerns over diversity, they have been almost universally mild and still ultimately accepting of the new hires. I may express some concern or even disappointment regarding this outcome, but like most people here, I still wish the new guys well and hope they'll do a great job. Dan and Jason seem like fine fellows.

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Oldirtybearon

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@drdarkstryfe said:

@droop said:

Guess I'll post it here then

No Caption Provided

#shotsfired

Guess she deleted the tweets again.

This site cheered and just said "Oh that's just him" when Dave Lang got embarrassingly piss drunk and was on that GDC livestream. Leigh does the same years ago, and she is still bashed for it.

It is pretty damn embarrassing that the community still rides her for that, when is practically celebrates it when it is someone like Lang.

Yeah, people didn't get pissed at her for being drunk, people were getting pissed (and uncomfortable) when she decided to start talking about how Nazi SS Officers were sexy and lots of other shit in really poor taste. Some people are loud, obnoxious, but fun drunks, and some people are just loud, obnoxious, and alienating.

You can even see some of it in the way Leigh conducts herself while sober. It's not nearly as dialed up as when she got drunk on the E3 After Hours, but it's still there. What we have is a person who is annoying and obnoxious, not annoying and obnoxious because she's a woman.

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Darth_Navster

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@cbk486: Exactly this. I'm an engineer, so my perspective is coming from a far more conservative industry, but you *never* immaturely whine about not getting a job in public. All it shows that you're an entitled crybaby ready to burn bridges at the drop of a hat.

Also, why don't these spurned people start their own site, like Jeff and Ryan did all those years ago? If their content is good, people will read it. That said, looking at their tweets I really doubt that they would be making interesting content regardless.

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Trilogy

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@drdarkstryfe said:

@droop said:

Guess I'll post it here then

No Caption Provided

#shotsfired

Guess she deleted the tweets again.

This site cheered and just said "Oh that's just him" when Dave Lang got embarrassingly piss drunk and was on that GDC livestream. Leigh does the same years ago, and she is still bashed for it.

It is pretty damn embarrassing that the community still rides her for that, when is practically celebrates it when it is someone like Lang.

If she was hilariously piss drunk, like Dave Lang was...I wouldn't care. She was, at times, simply obnoxious. Not everyone is a fun drunk. Some people are angry drunks, some are funny, and some are just obnoxious. I will say her 775 million moment was very funny, and a classic GB moment, even if it was not intentionally so.

I'm sorry, but I get to not like a person, regardless of their gender. I just get to do that, and it's not a double standard. If I'm not a fan of their personality, that's my prerogative to feel that way. You are absolutely free to feel the same way about Dave or anyone else. It doesn't excuse some of the people who crossed the line and resorted to name calling. Those people are fucking pricks and should be dealt with as such. The rest of us weren't fans of her. It's as simple as that. You know what? I don't think it has that much to do with drunkeness either. Those tweets, as Haillinel pointed out, aren't constructive. I understand that some jackasses hounded her after that E3, but that doesn't validate her throwing the entire community under the bus. It's childish, close minded, and knee jerk. She's too smart than to resort to that shit.

Edit: Ok apparently shit is only getting worse. Apparently more assholes have devolved to more name calling and insults on both sides of the argument. I now feel like I need to distance myself from all parties because this is just getting out of hand at this point. Sigh. It's really sad that what should have been a joyous occasion is being turned into a twitter feud with a splash of disgusting insults.

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matiaz_tapia

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Don't mean to sound unwelcoming to Dan and Jason, but I'd argue that perhaps they are not necessarily the "best" option, but the safest. Not making any assumptions on their skills of course, they both seems like they are up to the task and more.

The issue comes from Dan being to similar to Jeff to the point where Jeff simply dominates the conversation too much ( this week's podcast was almost a "Jar" feature). Without Patrick and Vinny to bring something else, it's difficult for him not to. Brad could chip in a bit more also.

In my mind I think the issue will not be about them fitting in, they already do. The issue for them will be to try and stand out...and I suppose, leaving politics aside, that is kind of the reason some people might be a tiny bit disappointed. Respectfully so I hope, I bet they'll do great.

Maybe next time.

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Video_Game_King

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@animasta said:

it's super echo chambery.

Quite, although I fear that our agreement might very well create yet another echo chamber. How, then, might we shatter these walls?

I wonder....is it finally time for this community to branch off onto its own? *clicky endy sound*
I wonder....is it finally time for this community to branch off onto its own? *clicky endy sound*

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RonGalaxy

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@truthtellah said:

I may not agree with her, but if anyone has reason to hate the GB community, I'd say Leigh Alexander does. If those tweets are genuine, I wouldn't really be surprised. I might be rather angry at folks, too, if they felt like harassing and talking crap about me for years for getting drunk once.

(and no one needs to tell me how she's horrible other times and thus deserving of your wrath. I get it)

I wasnt around giant bomb when the 775 million thing happened, but I have seen it. I don't think less of her because she was drunk and said something silly, I just think it's funny. Because it is funny. It's funny like how dave lang acts like an idiot when he's drunk, or when brad does something stupid even when he's sober (love you brad!). I don't harbor any ill will towards her and actually like her writing/perspective of the industry. It just makes me sad that she thinks giant bomb/the community is bad, when in reality it's actually really good. There are some bad eggs in the bunch, but the majority of us are level headed and respectful. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

I guess there is the 'secret' community (4chan, something awful, etc) that doesnt post here (thank god for that), but I dont think she's talking about them.

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truthtellah

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@animasta said:

it's super echo chambery.

Quite, although I fear that our agreement might very well create yet another echo chamber. How, then, might we shatter these walls?

I share your concern about a disturbing level of echo chamber here, but uhhhh... you're not really from the moon!

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Ramone

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This whole thing is ludicrous.

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deactivated-5b531a34b946c

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This seems like the perfect place to put this.

Ryan died a year ago. A seat unexpectedly became vacant and a quarter of their crew was gone. It took them a year to be given the go-ahead to fill that seat. A year. When you have to go through a year of meetings and red tape just to try and get back to your status quo, do you take a chance on hiring someone, or do you pick the best possible person available?

I don't fault anyone for wanting more diversity, or feeling disappointed that the hire is "more of the same." Yet when they actively get angry about it, it boils my blood. Ryan was a huge part of this site, and there has been a clear void since he left. The idea that it took the parent company so long to let them get someone else in there is mind-boggling, and it makes it very, very clear that it would be downright stupid for them to take any sort of chance on the hire, lest it doesn't work out and they're left for another year with another empty seat.

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joshwent

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@animasta said:

it's super echo chambery.

Quite, although I fear that our agreement might very well create yet another echo chamber. How, then, might we shatter these walls?

Focus our Qi, obviously.

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Video_Game_King

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Don't mean to sound unwelcoming to Dan and Jason, but I'd argue that perhaps they are not necessarily the "best" option, but the safest.

But I think that may have been the idea. Bring in people who know the gig, and who can deliver right away. Jeff has been talking about wanting to expand GB and bringing in someone like Dan who knows what the site is all about and who has a ton of on camera experience is gonna help that. Getting the site more content and more views is what is gonna facilitate growth, so that when that growth happens, GB can truly take more risks and chances on hiring new editors

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MFJubes

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Quote-unquote "social justice warrior" reporting in.

The problem isn't that Giant Bomb didn't hire a person of color or a woman. I was personally saddened that we wouldn't get to see diversity on the crew, but I'm sure the new guys will be great fits. And since we have no idea who the applicants were, or their qualifications, it's hard to say that diversity was ignored with any authority. There is a compelling argument to make about the white-male-dominated games press, that Giant Bomb esteems itself as a place with big, recognizable personalities, and because of that, it makes sense to hire from within the industry, naturally at the expense of diversity. It's a bummer, and I do wish for more diversity in this space (we clearly need it, see: this thread), but I'm not about to place the industry's problems at the feet of Giant Bomb or its new hires.

That said...what the hell, guys? There are people here using this issue as a springboard for Limbaugh-esque rambling about political correctness run amok. It's because of you, That Guy, that we need diversity in this space. While it would be wrong to say that GB has ignored POC or women, or that they were wrong to hire who they did (they seem like wonderful people), it is completely reasonable to start having a conversation about the state of diversity in games journalism (OP wrote a thoughtful piece, blindspots and all). And all you guys are doing is working to silence that, with your snark and your straw man arguments.

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truthtellah

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@truthtellah said:

I may not agree with her, but if anyone has reason to hate the GB community, I'd say Leigh Alexander does. If those tweets are genuine, I wouldn't really be surprised. I might be rather angry at folks, too, if they felt like harassing and talking crap about me for years for getting drunk once.

(and no one needs to tell me how she's horrible other times and thus deserving of your wrath. I get it)

I wasnt around giant bomb when the 775 million thing happened, but I have seen it. I don't think less of her because she was drunk and said something silly, I just think it's funny. Because it is funny. It's funny like how dave lang acts like an idiot when he's drunk, or when brad does something stupid even when he's sober (love you brad!). I don't harbor any ill will towards her and actually like her writing/perspective of the industry. It just makes me sad that she thinks giant bomb/the community is bad, when in reality it's actually really good. There are some bad eggs in the bunch, but the majority of us are level headed and respectful. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

I think the majority of folks on Giant Bomb are rather decent people. Though, certain topics or people can bring out the worst in many, and unfortunately, even if the majority is good, it's a big site. So, there's still a considerable contingency of less than awesome people you have to contend with.

I'm still not convinced those Leigh Alexander tweets are real, but if she disliked the community around here(or what she sees as the community), I could get it. Even some normally good people around here have said some rather nasty things about her. It's hard for me to say she should be endlessly forgiving of it all.

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turboman

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Video Games, right?

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leebmx

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This thead went downhill fast.

This is not the place to debate tweets and comments from people outside of the community on the extremes of either side of the argument. People that do this are just trying to use extremists to rubbish the more reasonable people who actually want a reasonable debate and this is not fair.

On the new recruits, I welcome them and look forward to their contributions but this site does need to make some efforts to incorporate a more diverse line-up of viewpoints in the future. The E3 panel was disappointingly white male and obviously the staff is now composed of 8 white men across all three offices.

They don't need to diversify because of some equality agenda, but because it is worthwhile for a site to incorporate diverse viewpoints and backgrounds. You can't do this with just white men. As much as they try and be inclusive and represent other viewpoints, ultimately people can't escape their own perspectives and they can't talk about things they have no experience of. Just imagine if there were a couple of women on the staff to give us some perspective over the debates of the last year. Whether or not we agreed or found it useful, it would be better than hearing a group of white men talk about how sexism affects them. These are the ways diversity can improve Giant Bomb. As good as these new hires are, and I like Dan on the wrestling podcast, I feel I know where they are coming from - I don't feel they are going to surprise me (I hope I am wrong)

If this site wants to grow and develop, it has, has, to start integrating differing perspectives and backgrounds or it will start to leave parts of the gaming community behind. That doesn't mean they have necessarily made a mistake with these hires but they need to make an effort in the future and they can do this with the guests they bring in from around the community - something Patrick has admitted they need to change.

What also needs to change are sections of this community who are not prepared to be open-minded or offer a level playing field to others. The case in point here is the way Leigh Alexander has been abused for 4 years (4 YEARS!) for being tipsy on a podcast, whereas Dave Lang can do the same thing and he is a blokey hero. Its not surprising she holds a grudge against this community, the way she has been treated is disgraceful, the woman is a fantastic journalist who got drunk once (ok twice!) 4 years ago - get over it - or apply the same standards to everyone.

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deactivated-62f93c42ce57b

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i sometimes wonder how people dont realize when they are making an issue appear out of thin air purely because of their own paranoid delusions and no facts what so ever.

ya know, sometimes people are hired because they are the best for the job and that's that. stop reading between the lines or rather stop writing in your own lines.

reminds me of how Jerry Seinfeld recently came under fire for supposedly and purposely not having any black people on his new show. I liked his response.

“People think it’s the census or something, it’s gotta represent the actual pie chart of America. Who cares?” he said, adding, “Funny is the world that I live in. You’re funny, I’m interested. You’re not funny, I’m not interested. I have no interest in gender or race or anything like that, but everyone else is, kind of with their little calculating, is this the exact right mix. To me, it’s anti-comedy, it’s more about PC nonsense than are you making us laugh or not.”

these two guys got hire onto Giant Bomb because they were the best candidates. I don't think anyone involved in the hiring gave a shit if they had polkadot skin let alone brown.

im so sick of every damn topic in this internet world having to instantly be spun into a racial or sexist mess. you want to find a fire, you will, and you might find yourself holding the matches.

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InternetDotCom

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@turboman said:

Video Games, right?

how dare you

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JasonR86

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"775 million."

"Nazi uniforms are sexy. I mean objectively."

<>

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RonGalaxy

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@rongalaxy said:

@truthtellah said:

I may not agree with her, but if anyone has reason to hate the GB community, I'd say Leigh Alexander does. If those tweets are genuine, I wouldn't really be surprised. I might be rather angry at folks, too, if they felt like harassing and talking crap about me for years for getting drunk once.

(and no one needs to tell me how she's horrible other times and thus deserving of your wrath. I get it)

I wasnt around giant bomb when the 775 million thing happened, but I have seen it. I don't think less of her because she was drunk and said something silly, I just think it's funny. Because it is funny. It's funny like how dave lang acts like an idiot when he's drunk, or when brad does something stupid even when he's sober (love you brad!). I don't harbor any ill will towards her and actually like her writing/perspective of the industry. It just makes me sad that she thinks giant bomb/the community is bad, when in reality it's actually really good. There are some bad eggs in the bunch, but the majority of us are level headed and respectful. I don't know, maybe that's just me.

I think the majority of folks on Giant Bomb are rather decent people. Though, certain topics or people can bring out the worst in many, and unfortunately, even if the majority is good, it's a big site. So, there's still a considerable contingency of less than awesome people you have to contend with.

I'm still not convinced those Leigh Alexander tweets are real, but if she disliked the community around here(or what she sees as the community), I could get it. Even some normally good people around here have said some rather nasty things about her. It's hard for me to say she should be endlessly forgiving of it all.

They are definitely real, you can look at her twitter and see her replying to other people about it (she just deleted the tweets she started). And it's not just the community, it seems she dislikes everyone that works here except for patrick.

Here's a link. I think this conversation brings some stuff into perspective, and I cant embed the whole conversation (and taking a screen shot isnt good enough proof)

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sergio

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@cyberfunk said:

@sergio:

@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

I do agree though that since they are such a small crew they cant really experiment with diverse new hires ala kotaku/polygon.

Polygon isn't that diverse. The majority are still white men. Dan was hired as a senior editor at Giant Bomb. How many senior editors at Polygon aren't white men? Zero. Kotaku at least has one woman on their editorial staff. Even then, Jason Schreier tends to keep me away from that site.

For Polygon you got: Danielle Riendeau, Jenna Pitcher, Tracey Lien, and Emily Gera to name a few

For Kotaku: Tina Amini, Patricia Hernandez, and Leigh Alexander.

Though, as I said before: a bigger staff makes it easier to employ women.

With the exception of Tina Amini at Kotaku, none of them are editors. Outside of Patrick, Giant Bomb doesn't hire reporters. They don't do freelance work. My point still stands, they're not as diverse as you think they are.

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splodge

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@trilogy said:

@drdarkstryfe said:

@droop said:

Guess I'll post it here then

No Caption Provided

#shotsfired

Guess she deleted the tweets again.

This site cheered and just said "Oh that's just him" when Dave Lang got embarrassingly piss drunk and was on that GDC livestream. Leigh does the same years ago, and she is still bashed for it.

It is pretty damn embarrassing that the community still rides her for that, when is practically celebrates it when it is someone like Lang.

If she was hilariously piss drunk, like Dave Lang was...I wouldn't care. She was, at times, simply obnoxious. Not everyone is a fun drunk. Some people are angry drunks, some are funny, and some are just obnoxious. I will say her 775 million moment was very funny, and a classic GB moment, even if it was not intentionally so.

I'm sorry, but I get to not like a person, regardless of their gender. I just get to do that, and it's not a double standard. If I'm not a fan of their personality, that's my prerogative to feel that way. You are absolutely free to feel the same way about Dave or anyone else. It doesn't excuse some of the people who crossed the line and resorted to name calling. Those people are fucking pricks and should be dealt with as such. The rest of us weren't fans of her. It's as simple as that. You know what? I don't think it has that much to do with drunkeness either. Those tweets, as Haillinel pointed out, aren't constructive. I understand that some jackasses hounded her after that E3, but that doesn't validate her throwing the entire community under the bus. It's childish, close minded, and knee jerk. She's too smart than to resort to that shit.

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I like when people make mountains out of mole hills, and 2014's crusade of diversity makes me facepalm every night.

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I don't think there's anything wrong with Giant Bomb's hires, as they fit the mission statement of the site exactly. Old industry vets with a million stories to tell about game journalism's lifespan, who've historically palled around together. Giant Bomb started off as friends hiring friends, and that's why it has the flavor it does. They hired Patrick when they were at one of their high points and felt like they could branch out (also, Patrick himself kinda had already been around awhile), but let's face it: Giant Bomb isn't at a high point right now. They need some pinch hitters. People who've already been around, who they know they can trust, and who they know they have a good, established rapport with.

I'm excited, because these guys seem like they'll go a long way in helping the site get back on track. And when things get rolling again, will they branch out? Probably so. Just enjoy it, and remember that these guys aren't the enemy.

But while I don't think GB itself as at fault, some its viewership is certainly taking things too far. I think it completely sucks that folks like Maddy Myers have been attacked for voicing their opinion about this. Yeah, applying for a job and then getting salty when it doesn't pan out isn't the most classy thing a person can do, but it's her right to do so. You're making the community look bad by harassing people on Twitter just because they have a minor beef with your favorite thing. Cut it out. This "controversy" isn't even as significant as it may look to you. Activists point out things everywhere, and it's not even accusatory so much as "look, it's happening here too." You're only fueling the sensation, proving their point, and damaging GB's reputation by reacting to it like assholes. Let it pass, enjoy the site, and people will be back to talking about the issues that are really plaguing the industry.

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@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

@sergio:

@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

I do agree though that since they are such a small crew they cant really experiment with diverse new hires ala kotaku/polygon.

Polygon isn't that diverse. The majority are still white men. Dan was hired as a senior editor at Giant Bomb. How many senior editors at Polygon aren't white men? Zero. Kotaku at least has one woman on their editorial staff. Even then, Jason Schreier tends to keep me away from that site.

For Polygon you got: Danielle Riendeau, Jenna Pitcher, Tracey Lien, and Emily Gera to name a few

For Kotaku: Tina Amini, Patricia Hernandez, and Leigh Alexander.

Though, as I said before: a bigger staff makes it easier to employ women.

With the exception of Tina Amini at Kotaku, none of them are editors. Outside of Patrick, Giant Bomb doesn't hire reporters. They don't do freelance work. My point still stands, they're not as diverse as you think they are.

Not to mention that Patrick has pretty much come out and said that part of the budget they got for this upcoming year will be used to actually get some of those freelancers here. So while there aren't any non straight white male editors, I'm positive we'll be seeing writing on Giant Bomb from a diverse array of folks not too far into the future.

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@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

@sergio:

@sergio said:

@cyberfunk said:

I do agree though that since they are such a small crew they cant really experiment with diverse new hires ala kotaku/polygon.

Polygon isn't that diverse. The majority are still white men. Dan was hired as a senior editor at Giant Bomb. How many senior editors at Polygon aren't white men? Zero. Kotaku at least has one woman on their editorial staff. Even then, Jason Schreier tends to keep me away from that site.

For Polygon you got: Danielle Riendeau, Jenna Pitcher, Tracey Lien, and Emily Gera to name a few

For Kotaku: Tina Amini, Patricia Hernandez, and Leigh Alexander.

Though, as I said before: a bigger staff makes it easier to employ women.

With the exception of Tina Amini at Kotaku, none of them are editors. Outside of Patrick, Giant Bomb doesn't hire reporters. They don't do freelance work. My point still stands, they're not as diverse as you think they are.

Patrick actually said recently that he was given a budget to put towards hiring freelancers.

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@karkarov said:

@themanwithnoplan said:

Sigh... oh man. I thought this would be a universally happy occasion.

Actually I find it sort of funny. I stopped coming to the site for the actual staff articles a long time ago. Not to say the staff sucks or anything, they don't, but they just don't put out videos that seem to be as entertaining as what they used to. I mostly now visit for the forums, discuss the games I like, and enjoy the community in general. I have read more @video_game_king blogs than I have read Jeff posts in the last 3 months, and not by a small margin. So personally they could have hired Coco the Flying Monkey and Bobo the Clown and I wouldn't have cared. It is just really strange how many people on the site are tied up in the personalities in charge, sure that's important, but there are plenty of great things going on with the site that have nothing to do with the Bombcast or Patrick's most recent diversity article.

It's certainly great that the site can facilitate different interests for different people. I find both the staff and the community equally interesting and fun to interact with. I probably wouldn't come to the site near as much if it didn't have both.

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@sasnake said:

I like when people make mountains out of mole hills, and 2014's crusade of diversity makes me facepalm every night.

Are you talking about the massive crowd of people making a mountain out of a mole hill in their anger over anyone daring to mention that they might have hoped for more diversity?

Because yeah, it has been rather out of control. Less than a dozen folks have expressed anything even close to reservations, but a whole buttload have flooded this thread and others complaining about a contingency of diversity warriors that don't exist. Some people are a little disappointed but will get used to it. We don't need angry mockery and taunting of duders that aren't even here.

People should just calm down and let people express their opinions on it. It's natural that we may feel differently about some things some times.

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@animasta said:

Ugh, this thread fucking sucks.

Everyone's raging on people who are mad that they didn't get a job and are tweeting whilst mad. Or even mad about a different matter (if anyone wants to debate that Leigh gets way more shit than she deserves on this site...), but instead all we're doing is raging against people that AREN'T POSTING HERE.

Nobody's debating with anybody, we're just going "YEAH FUCK THOSE PEOPLE" and it's terrible. For the record, I don't care about whether the new hires were women or not. but all this raging about people not actually here... it's super echo chambery.

I fully agree with what Leigh tweeted though. If it were literally anyone else besides Carrie, the amount of shit they would get would be immense.

You mean it would be better if we were to all go on twitter and behave like them instead? If you don't think they're in their own little echo chamber about this, you're wrong.

I think being disappointed that they didn't get the job is fine. It's okay to be disappointed because another person they liked didn't get hired. No minority getting hired? Sure be disappointed, but recognize that it wasn't because Giant Bomb wasn't discriminating against people. A lot of what they're saying isn't really professional or egalitarian.

Unless something has been deleted, I haven't seen anyone saying "fuck those people." I have seen them say "fuck you" to people who politely disagree with them. I have seen comments calling them feminazis, and I've disagreed with that.