ragnar_mike

Yeap. I'm very glad that they've been able to knock out a bunch of issues for stability and playability, but as Jeff has eluded to before, my most glaring issues with the game is much more fundamental than crashes and glitches. There's a scaling issue of what that world is and what it wants to be and that sort of stuff would take the same level of content patches that Witcher 3 received. Obviously, they can certainly do that over time, and have in the past, but what's there currently feels supremely bares bones to me. Oh well, this was a good patch and I hope they can turn things around.

That's fair, I think I was trying to use that reference as more of a detriment to Cyberpunk than a praising of Altered Carbon. I seem to miscommunicating as of late with using a reference as an example that gets the opposite intent presented. Oh well. Anyway, I agree. Altered Carbon at least asks more interesting questions, even if how they answer them is shallow or completely ignored. That show has a similar issue of really interesting core ideas (what value does a body have when separated from consciousness, it's ideas on murder, etc.) but is fumbles with any meaningful discussion of said topics. Much like Saints Row, ANY meaningful discussion to me is ahead of what Cyberpunk does.

Though I agree, Judy's side stuff with the Moxes is probably the most interesting exploration of that theme, just nowhere near enough imo.

I'm mostly just offended by the content of this game in the sense that it's all incredibly reductive. There's an incredible place in this IP for discussions of body image and intersectionality and transhumanism and sex work and classism and a bunch of really interesting topics. None of that is explored in depth, if at all. The first season of Altered Carbon explored classism and sexwork so much more interestingly than Cyberpunk, and Altered Carbon barely really looks at it in the grand scheme of things.

The posters feel like the environment artists were the only one to read the story bible and that everyone else ignored it because it was mocking and insultingly stereotypical. Watson Whore, Bottom's Up...I'm pretty sure there's one add for speed in a can and another that more or less should just be called Deepthroat. Like...yes, I understand the goal of taking exploitative advertising to its logical conclusion to set the tone, but they can't have thought this was going to land in the US. Particularly these past few years.

Anyway. I'm all for the subjects they're bringing up in the game. They're important things to talk about and parody is an excellent way of shedding some light on it. But that takes a gentler touch than Cyberpunk was able to accomplish while putting out so many fires it seems. To be honest, I think I liked Saints Row 3's handling of all this better which is...I don't even know how to unwrap that. Haha

101 The Dirge was my jam. I'm all about that dystopian, grimy, hip hop. Granted, a good chunk of them are just...braggadocio, but there's some bangers in there. Especially when I'm redlining a crotchrocket through traffic after my latest forgettable crime spree.

Mainly because I popped every time the RTJ song came on. Although the more I have listened to it, the less I like Killer Mike's verse. Mainly just because its like...a song ABOUT cyberpunk rather than a song IN cyberpunk.

@bigsocrates: Yep, I absolutely agree. =)

@bigsocrates: That's fair. Maybe Fallout was a poor choice. I think in my head I meant that even if the basic framework is like a Fallout games, but the depth isn't there. And not even just the amount of other crap you can do in Fallout with builds and alents or whatever. The dialog with non main storyline people isn't even comparable. If you wanna compare Cyberpunk to anything in that regard its more like Pokemon: a character specific phrase they repeat each time you talk to anyone who doesn't have a quest for you or sell you something. Granted, GTA has a similar issue, but those at least feel like there's a canned tree of responses. I forgive them for that because the game is like 7 years old at this point.

I'm less talking about comparing the amount of features and more the depth or quality of the ones that made it in. I don't think whole systems were cut from the game, beyond the standard "we planned for a lot of stuff and can only really nail these three things so let's choose these" phase of every game dev project. Its more that even the ones they felt they were able to accomplish feel unfinished. Things being shown like the monowire being able to hack a target from a distance and the energy katana. The armor that feels like the stats are randomly generated. It feels like there are a thousands of little things that got cut because it wouldn't be done in time. More than usual, and without any plans to fill in those gaps. The next three months are going to be bug fixing no doubt. Would that have been spent on content if they were able to reach the unobtainable goal of hitting December? As you said, I doubt it. I will be shocked if multiplayer ever makes it into this game.

I don't believe I ever expected as robust a city as GTA online has become, but some of those systems, the police/wanted systems, the streets full of cars that react to your driving, crowds that do more than walk down a path...those are not new techniques. Those are things that existed in games well before they ever had the right to make a Cyberpunk game. Maybe you're correct in that the goal was always a smaller scale of city as a backdrop. It certainly is a backdrop. And I experienced it on a bike because stopping to actually immerse myself in any of it was disappointing. Its not like I want to be able to LARP in there obeying traffic signals and whatever, but it felt like there were 5 places I bounced back and forth from over and over and going between the them was a trudge, not a reward.

Maybe it's a case of Andromeda-itis, where the engine was never meant to do those things and there was a brain drain or it just took them longer to make a shooter work in whatever in-house stuff they use. But I would much rather have a working cops mechanic, or fluid driving than the crew of 6 thugs in an alley 50 times. But that's something that they already had available. In all honesty that's what the cops are too. They had the ability to spawn in game asset with a crew of AI and it feels like that was copied and pasted over everything that wasn't the main questline or the side quests of your companions.

In some regards, I wish it was more like Mass Effect. Treat it like scenery. Let me look at it from the balcony as I'm on a mission. Maybe talk to some folks as I do detective stuff. Scope the city wayyyyy down and make it mission based. And then load me into an apartment or have the bar be my hub or something where I can chat with mercs and have a limited set of characters to deepend the dialog with. The less time you have to pull at the bubble gum and duct tape holding that world together, the more time you can focus on the fun story and missions and characters that are kinda the only redeeming quality.

I'm mostly in line with Jeff's thoughts with the game at this point, which is strange because usually we rather diverge on RPG games. But I think that is largely because Cyberpunk doesn't know what it wants to be. The main story arc of the game has interesting beats and good performances and all that, but how you get to those beats feels shallow and meaningless. By far the most enthralling part of the game to me is the city. The vistas are incredible and I wanted nothing more than to wander around the streets and get into trouble. But that's not what the city is. The streets are like dioramas, you see the same people eating at the same stalls outside your apartment. The cars drive in circles endlessly, only reacting to your presence by breaking their loop and halting until you leave. The cops flutter in from the aether when you commit a crime but their jurisdiction is a single block it seems. The city is best experienced on a bike, not stopping, but looking around as you pass by all the broken systems.

It's not fair to compare this game to GTA. But it's also not fair to compare it to Deus Ex, or Fallout, or Mass Effect, or Bioshock, or Alien: Isolation or Dead Space, or Silent Hill, or Resident Evil. All of these games have a more robust world and systems and inventory and half of them have better combat or crafting depending on your preference. Cyberpunk cribs from all these big tropes of RPGs but does them all mediocrely to the extent that it feels like they had to scrap 90% of each system to get to game to run. Maybe that's the truth, maybe they just didn't have enough systems devs and focused almost entirely on the art: Art that cannot save an empty experience.

I wanted to like this game and I'm very forgiving about the trials and tribulations of development. I had fun with Andromeda even with how temultuous that development was. But this is a different level. Its not that the game isn't finished. Bugs will be fixed, and performance improved. But even if this game ran perfectly, there's no meat on the bones. Much like No Man's Sky of GTA Online, given a year or two of dlc and content, could this game become what they originally wanted? Absolutely. Will I return to it by then after my lackluster experience now? Probably not.

That being said, the 8 barreled smart shotgun is hella dope and might be my new favorite "video game shotgun"

@mezza: No worries, I was being a bit obtuse.

@slaughts: Yeap, that sounds about right to me. It's a double edged sword, because to a certain extent speaking with your wallet effects some things, but the way CDPR is set up it will adversely effect the dev team as they are financially invested in the success of the game more than most teams. So how do you support the work without supporting the work environment and decisions being made at the same time? No easy answer there.

I'll certainly play the game. It looks like it has a lot of the game systems I enjoy. But, I don't expect it to have anything meaningful to say. Despite the improvements to storytelling and the benefits of the whole "ludonarrative experience" and all that, game stories are hamfisted. They just are. Some have had great moments and I have loved them, but I do not expect ANY game to handle the subjects cyberpunk trades in with subtlety. Scifi is great because it turns a mirror on society and allows for these sorts of discussions, but it's a raw wound. We don't like talking about how screwed up our society is. Cyberpunk (both the genre and the IP) put a pretty, empowerment fantasy veneer on top of the exploitation and classism and degrading that occurs when things like corporate corruption runs amok.

Anyway. Support games unions. Or at least better workers rights. Support trans people. Or at least basic human decency. And buy games from studios you want to support, understanding that not everyone in a team that big thinks the same way. I shall get off my pedestal now.