@cav829: an excellent counterpoint (regarding their personal lists) that I must admit I, despite my belief that there is some justification to them switching to just that, didn't really take into consideration with my post. I was basically just going from the podcast...as someone that loved the game and in many ways didn't experience the negatives that they discussed, I found myself yelling at the inside of my car at points until my girlfriend told me to shut the hell up. I just found it confusing and frustrating. But then, I think back and I experience this every year in some capacity, so I don't know what the hell I'm even talking about, really, because I keep coming back for more.
@zevvion: GB is literally the only gaming website on the internet that hated W3, "the fans" aren't the only ones that liked it. I'd even say that this is the most contrarian they've ever been.
They hated it so much it's in their top 10 games of the year.
I hate that this is still a topic of conversation but...in fairness, if the point of these is to hear the deliberations and how they got to where they got to, I have two points: 1) there was more negative said about the Witcher 3 than positive; and 2) the Witcher 3 had no business at number 10, and felt very much like they put it there just because, rather than because they liked it.
(Of course, the list is complete garbage because Tales from the Borderlands isn't on it, but nobody's perfect.)
Tales from the Borderlands actually cracked my top 10 in the 11th hour, as I got it on sale and blew through the whole thing in a sitting. Holy crap, what a great game. I'm sad that they never got the chance to get to it, because as someone that would describe themselves as experiencing massive Telltale fatigue (I outright disliked Game of Thrones to a degree that it in some ways soured me on their game design overall) I thought it was really, really great. As much as I thought Undertale had its funny moments, Tales from the Borderlands legit made me laugh out loud more than any game in recent memory. And this is from someone that didn't really like the Borderlands 2 writing all that much, and someone that really kind of hates Handsome Jack.
@quantris: Just wanted to say that your posts are great. At least, I think that they're great. I mostly understand them. Maybe, I think. Either way, I left them feeling more informed if not in addition more confused so...that seems like a job well done!
@amyggen: I would argue since we haven't tried the alternative, we don't know that for sure, but either way, the popularity of it again wasn't my point to begin with.
@sethmode: The GOTY list and process around it is one of the most popular thing they do, and probably what generates the most interest in GB communities outside of the site itself outside of maybe E3. So clearly a lot of people like a site-wide GOTY list and the discussion that brings. Me included.
That's fine. Wasn't my point, nor do I see the relevance regarding what I said in my post. I am sure it's as popular as every other GOTY discussion, because it stirs people up, for sure. Wasn't what I was getting at though, and I would think/hope you know that.
Having finally listened to the GOTY part of this podcast, I can kind of see why some people had such volatile reactions to it. It's not so much the place at which Mario maker was placed, but this unwavering bullheadedness that drove it there that even made me feel kind of weird. I remember all those years when Brad would just stubbornly talk others down to submission, and none of those times felt as weird as this years push for Mario Maker. Jeff's statement that it's the best GOTY they have ever given on this website was really out there (if not to say completely crazy).
All good fun of course but man, what a dumb one sided discussion this turned out to be in the end.
I agree, although the part I was most uncomfortable during was around the cutting The Witcher/Invisible Inc./Life is Strange, part (if I'm remembering correctly). I personally felt like both Brad and Dan were guilty of arguments that were so poor they would make someone that didn't know them think they were just another internet voice shouting into the void. The number of times they relied upon this kind of ever-moving "target" that seemed to sum up with "it just isn't *blank*" or something of that nature was weird to listen to. I don't know if I'm articulating it as best as I can, but I just left that part feeling kind of grimey and like the deliberations weren't he infuriating fun time that I used to enjoy, and more just kind of even more pointless than they ever were.
All of that being said, I still love that hey do it, and Vinny, Alex and Austin in particular I think were very thoughtful and enjoyable to listen to. Austin especially. I have and don't even particularly enjoy Invisible Inc., but by the time he was done, I was 100% on board with that being on their list. He brings so much to the team, I'm so happy and appreciative of his hiring.
The over-entitlement in this comment section is palpable.
If your thoughts are "I pay for a premium subscription so that these people I don't know will completely conform to my exact opinions about games", please go fuck yourself, this community won't miss you.
This is a silly list representing the opinions of the staff.
agreed. I will point out that smm will be talked about longer than almost every game on this list, so yes it deserves the spot it has.
I think that sort of attitude is just the other extreme of people getting really riled up about GOTY lists. I'm sure at least half the people voicing their concerns don't necessary want the crew to mindlessly conform to the hive mind of the forums.
Each year during GOTY talks there are some people who think this or that game didn't deserve this or that spot and obviously thats unavoidable because we all like different things. I think this year especially you can tell that there is a stronger than usual consensus of people thinking Mario Maker didn't seem to deserve the win. Now I'm not saying "change the list! The people have spoken!" I'm simply pointing out that beyond the hyperbolic posts here and there that always pop up, there are a lot of fairly reasonable people saying the same thing and thats a little telling.
Ultimately it's Giant Bomb GOTY and it honestly rarely makes any sense because it's just a bunch of people compromising instead of agreeing on something. But saying "hey you people that don't agree with this and have any sort of complaints are entitled and go fuck yourself" is exactly the sort of extreme attitude you're criticizing in the first place.
As a complete aside I haven't even listened to the podcast yet but from looking at everyones individual GOTY lists and so forth I'm also a little befuddled how Mario Maker of all games ended up as #1 for the entire site.
I'm not saying people who don't agree with it should go fuck themselves. I don't agree with a lot of it either but I understand that not everyone will have the same experiences with games as I did in a year. I'm talking about the people who shout about how "wrong" this list is. This is a list based on the opinions of the staff. THIS LIST IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH IT THEN THAT IS FINE BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THE LIST IS WRONG IN ANY WAY.
I get it, but the staff spends time claiming opinions about games are "wrong" too. It's all in fun. I think that this is list wrong! That, also, is okay.
Hell, if you want to really dig into it, the amount of times that Dan has used the word "objectively" to describe something ENTIRELY subjective, HE should be the one that you're directing your comments to.
Yeah I totally get that, too. People seem to forget that goty lists are silly things is my general point, I get a lot more out of the podcasts because it encourages me to play a lot of stuff I missed this year. My steam wishlist now overflows.
I agree, wholeheartedly! The whole thing is silly (and fun) and not to be taken too seriously. And yes, my Steam wishlist also runneth over!
So...are people upset that people disagree, or are they upset with the way that people disagree? Because honestly, as I think @humanity already brought up...it could be way...WAY worse. There have been many good posts here, many hyperbolic posts (as is the case with this shit) and a small few crummy ones (IMO, at least). I, for one, have enjoyed everything and think that this community for the most part is doing a great job of dissecting the GOTY stuff. There is absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing with the GB guys, and I think that they would agree with that sentiment. Most importantly, I think it's fun to do so. What enjoyment would be gained from them just saying whatever you wanted them to say?
So, again, they were WAY too hard on TW3. That is all.
The over-entitlement in this comment section is palpable.
If your thoughts are "I pay for a premium subscription so that these people I don't know will completely conform to my exact opinions about games", please go fuck yourself, this community won't miss you.
This is a silly list representing the opinions of the staff.
agreed. I will point out that smm will be talked about longer than almost every game on this list, so yes it deserves the spot it has.
I think that sort of attitude is just the other extreme of people getting really riled up about GOTY lists. I'm sure at least half the people voicing their concerns don't necessary want the crew to mindlessly conform to the hive mind of the forums.
Each year during GOTY talks there are some people who think this or that game didn't deserve this or that spot and obviously thats unavoidable because we all like different things. I think this year especially you can tell that there is a stronger than usual consensus of people thinking Mario Maker didn't seem to deserve the win. Now I'm not saying "change the list! The people have spoken!" I'm simply pointing out that beyond the hyperbolic posts here and there that always pop up, there are a lot of fairly reasonable people saying the same thing and thats a little telling.
Ultimately it's Giant Bomb GOTY and it honestly rarely makes any sense because it's just a bunch of people compromising instead of agreeing on something. But saying "hey you people that don't agree with this and have any sort of complaints are entitled and go fuck yourself" is exactly the sort of extreme attitude you're criticizing in the first place.
As a complete aside I haven't even listened to the podcast yet but from looking at everyones individual GOTY lists and so forth I'm also a little befuddled how Mario Maker of all games ended up as #1 for the entire site.
I'm not saying people who don't agree with it should go fuck themselves. I don't agree with a lot of it either but I understand that not everyone will have the same experiences with games as I did in a year. I'm talking about the people who shout about how "wrong" this list is. This is a list based on the opinions of the staff. THIS LIST IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH IT THEN THAT IS FINE BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THE LIST IS WRONG IN ANY WAY.
I get it, but the staff spends time claiming opinions about games are "wrong" too. It's all in fun. I think that this is list wrong! That, also, is okay.
Hell, if you want to really dig into it, the amount of times that Dan has used the word "objectively" to describe something ENTIRELY subjective, HE should be the one that you're directing your comments to.
SethMode's comments