spicy_jasonator

@Frain said:

@Vampir:

I just think that we live in a place now where you can speak up.

If somebody mentioned something about there being a "vagina in the room" you can tell them that something like that offended you, and if that doesn't work you can always take it higher up. I suppose the problem is that some women think that because it's a male dominated industry they can't speak up. If anything, these women need to know that they have the power to stop it, just like you said, a lot of men don't realize they're saying sexist things, but if these women would tell them that I'm sure those people would re-examine what they said. I don't think there needs to be a special "woman" rule, that'd be terrible, and incredibly sexist. I just think that any woman who hears something that offends them should actually tell the person who said those things, and if they get lippy or sexist you can just take it higher up. Holding onto it and posting it on twitter does nothing to solve the problem, again, another good twitter movement would be revealing to women in the work place that they do have the power to stop any sexism pointed their way by simply speaking up. Being surrounded by males may seem oppressive on the surface, but we don't all think the same, and I'm sure the majority of us will hear you out.

It should be true that we live in a place where you can speak up, but it's not always the case. There have already been some reports of people involved in the hash-tag having backlash at work for what they posted. The "you can always take it higher up" argument assumes a sympathetic higher up. In the tweet I referenced, "vagina in the room" was something yelled in front of other coworkers, boss included. When something like that seems to be the accepted culture of the office, speaking up can seem risky. It might resolve the issue, but it also might stir up trouble and put your job in danger. I agree that people should feel more free to speak up about these things, but I think sharing these stories and getting more and more voices in support works toward that goal. I also don't think victims should be the only ones who should have to speak up. Silence is complicity.

There definitely shouldn't be a special "woman" rule, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

@FierceDeity said:

@ZedsDeadBaby said:

@Bob_Loblaw said:

Yeah Patrick why don't you do something about it? Like writing a front page article on your website promoting the cause despite knowing that most major gaming websites will just pretend it isn't a story in case it upset their shouty manbaby contingent.

And then doubling down and writing another in the face of such a response because just because something is unpopular with a subset of a community doesn't mean it's not important to still discuss it rather than just not rocking the boat.

Yeah Patrick why haven't you solved sexism already you lazy fuck?

:)

Because quoting some twitter messages is really high quality journalism.

Seems like a good way to report on something involving Twitter to me.

@Frain said:

I don't think many of the people arguing here are necessarily against equality. I don't doubt there are misogynists in the industry, nor do I doubt any of the stories coming from #1reasonwhy. But I think movements like these tend to make the wrong people feel bad about themselves. You focus on these issues when you ignore that the majority of the industry at this point is doing pretty well on that front, perhaps even better than other industries. Yes, there are assholes out there and they tend to be louder, but is sexism really more apparent here than in other places of work? Or is that just a common misconception? I think the twitter movement should be about sexism in the work place in general, you would be surprised, or maybe not. The worst part about this is you're potentially creating sexist mindsets, people will begin to think "Well she's a woman working in gaming so I have to treat her a little better" and even some women have this sexist preconception that all men in the industry must be sexist in some form. When referring to women in the industry it should be "She's the artist down the hall" or "She's the programmer sitting right there." Nothing more, nothing less. That is true equality.

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=13391

If you're talking about sexism on the internet, well, why stop there? I'm african-american, and I hear certain racial slurs over the internet all the time. That's the thing with the internet though, it's anonymous, so assholes can be assholes as much as they want. If there is any message that's worth starting a movement over it's the message of treating people over the internet with a certain amount of respect.

The point the article you posted makes, that some companies are getting it right, is important, but at the same time, it's just one person's experience. There are many more people posting under #1reasonwhy who do experience the negative effects of sexism. Some, it seems, on a regular basis. I think part of the reason why the issue persists is that those who do not treat women don't necessarily understand or accept that there is something wrong with what they are doing. People at press events ushering women away from Call of Duty towards Farmville probably aren't thinking, "haha, I showed her," rather they are operating under unfair and off-base assumptions. Someone commenting about there being, "a vagina in the room", might not see himself as an asshole. Part of what is so important about things like this hashtag is that people are standing up and saying, "hey, this isn't okay". The more people that see these tweets, and the more people that join in agreement, the harder it will be for those participating in these sexist acts to hide (or be stuck) in a bubble where what they're doing is okay.

I do agree, though, that a movement for respecting people over the internet would be definitely worthwhile. It's crazy here sometimes.

@ZHabermann said:

Patrick thinking that the video games industries sexism problems is internal and has to be fixed by it's self is insulting to all victims of sexism in the world. This problem is so much bigger then video game developers hash tagging their twitter posts. AmericanNinja is right, it is just video games. Sexism is a world problem and you belittle it with this attention seeking crap posted in a News section on a gaming website.

That sexism is in any way internal or limited to video games is something absolutely no one here has claimed. It's absolutely so much bigger than what's going on with game developers, PR people, and journalists, but I see no reason not to discuss the issue as it relates to the industry that this site is about. It's not belittling the issue at all. It's just highlighting an area where these problems still exist. I talk to people all the time who think these issues don't exist any more, so I don't see how reminders can be anything but a good thing.

Also, the "____ is just _____" arguments don't really mean anything. I could just as easily say, "It's just an article. Why do you care?"

@RoyCampbell said:

@Vampir said:

@Nettacki said:

@Zetetic_Elench said:

@Nettacki said:

That's not it. YOU KNOW that's not it. It's mostly about what Marokai is saying: that Patrick has dragged his moral crusade into the GB News section and has shamed half the community despite his good intentions.

If you don't want to get shamed for having really shitty opinions don't have shitty opinions. I really don't feel there's an obligation to be nice when half the GB community is completely dismissive of the problem?

But some of our opinions aren't shitty! We AREN'T dismissive of the problem! We're just appalled by the lack of journalistic qualities in this article compared to his better works (i.e., where are the interviews with these people? Where is the coverage of both sides of the issue?)

And your opinions weren't being shamed. The article was pretty clear on only criticizing those that were being dismissive.

"Maybe I’m just wading into an unwinnable argument, but I wanted to paste a comment that seemed emblematic of so much of the 1,600 comment (and still growing) thread." He copied that [pictured] comment soon after the article was published. I believe he didn't read as much as he tells us he did, and he generalized a ton of people so he could prove the point he was trying to shill in the first article.

The number of comments were getting to about 800 when I read them last night and I read all of what was there at that point. There were a lot of people trying to dismiss the issue.

@Nettacki said:

@Zetetic_Elench said:

@Nettacki said:

That's not it. YOU KNOW that's not it. It's mostly about what Marokai is saying: that Patrick has dragged his moral crusade into the GB News section and has shamed half the community despite his good intentions.

If you don't want to get shamed for having really shitty opinions don't have shitty opinions. I really don't feel there's an obligation to be nice when half the GB community is completely dismissive of the problem?

But some of our opinions aren't shitty! We AREN'T dismissive of the problem! We're just appalled by the lack of journalistic qualities in this article compared to his better works (i.e., where are the interviews with these people? Where is the coverage of both sides of the issue?)

And your opinions weren't being shamed. The article was pretty clear on only criticizing those that were being dismissive.

@Milkman said:

@Marokai said:

@Milkman: I have no inherent problem with a serious and more substantial article chronicling sexism in video games and the video game industry, but these articles aren't that, they're collections of tweets included with Patrick's Good Progressive Deed For The Day. More than that, though, we're now at the point where Patrick is barely even speaking about the issue, he's just antagonizing half of the community. That's not helpful for any discussion, and it's not helpful for combating sexism. I just generally think we're getting preached at by people who ain't practicing, here. Great, Patrick made a tweet about how much he hates sexism. Now I'd like to see Patrick and Giant Bomb refuse to give coverage or interviews because of their principled stands. Or I'd like to see them actually fight back against sexism when they see it in person with others. But doing that wouldn't make them popular in this incestuous industry, so they don't. They make tweets about it, and then they go right back to ignoring it at every trade show as they drink beer and shoot the shit with 'the guys'.

It's a fair point and sure, we could all do more. But is it so evil to try to exemplify of a good example of some people in the games industry coming together? Why does that evoke such a hostile response? I also think there's a disconnect here between this post and what people have been arguing. I've seen people say "I don't want this on Giant Bomb. This is Kotaku crap. This isn't a soapbox" but now you say "DO MORE TO FIGHT SEXISM." Which is it? Patrick writes articles. That's his job. This is the easiest way for him to raise awareness (yes, I know people HATE that word for some reason) and in turn, attempt to change things. No one's saying that Patrick is changing the world or even that the hashtag is changing the world. But what's the harm in it?

Especially considering how many people simply want to dismiss the issue. Highlighting concrete examples of actual people facing these issues makes them that much harder to ignore and seems like a really good thing to be doing.

@Fredchuckdave said:

It's kind of depressing that kind of a bummer isn't winning this poll as it is kind of the objectively best answer kind of.

It's kind of depressing that you think that.

It may not have been the most exciting year for big, console releases, but the volume and variety of indie games coming out and the influx of new talent has made this a really exciting time to be in video games.

@LikeaSsur said:

@NyxFe: Look around the internet when a word like "feminism" comes up, and what do you see? Do you see people wanting equal rights for men and women, or do you see the most extreme and worst examples of it? Yes, the book definition is clear, but social conscious defines it very differently. Also, unless there's different denominations of feminism, I don't get your Islam comparison.

When the word feminism comes up I see either people wanting equal rights for men and women or people who are against the conversation. The only time I really see anything about the extreme end of feminism is when I see people conflating it with mainstream feminism. People can try to represent feminism all they want, but what really matters is what the word means for people who actually participate in the movement.

Also, there are many types of feminism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movements_and_ideologies

@SpunkyHePanda: It does.