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wollywoo

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wollywoo

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Form-factor is super important for a portable, but to me a console is just something that sits on my entertainment stand. I don't care what it looks like or how big it is as long as I can fit it in somehow.

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wollywoo

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@bigsocrates: Oh, alright then. That allays my fears. Still, it sure would be nice to be able to download them on to the next system instead of having to dig out my old one out of the garage (or buy a brand new one if it breaks.)

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wollywoo

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I don't have either of these systems so it doesn't affect me. But I buy 90%+ of my games digitally, so it would really suck if they shut down the Switch online service and I lost/broke my Switch and could not get any of my library back. Console publishers really need to adopt the Steam model - I still have all my Steam purchases from ~2004 and I don't have any worries about them. With Nintendo, though - who knows. Could go *poof* at any moment.

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wollywoo

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@cikame: Yeah, the voice thing is definitely an issue. It's getting better - chatgpt's new voice feature seems pretty good - but it's definitely going to be behind human voice actors. Maybe they can do a blend, where some important lines are delivered by humans and then somehow used as hints to the voice synthesizer so that it's not so obvious which are human. An investigation game with AI sounds very cool.

I've thought about the consistency problem too. You might not want every person playing the game to get completely different facts about each character. You could ameliorate this somewhat by having long pre-written bios of basic things about each character. For even more details you could augment this by pre-written AI-generated backgrounds that make up even more detail that don't make much difference to the story. But yeah, at some point it's going to start making up random stuff and it's inevitably going to break immersion when things become too wild or inconsistent.

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#5  Edited By wollywoo
@bigsocrates said:

@wollywoo: Modern machines do not have the spare computing power to do significant realtime asset generation like that. Maybe for something like building a good "random" world map in Civilization, or making canned NPC responses a little more varied and interesting, but not much beyond that outside weird experimental games. Cloud integration could help but then you run into Internet bandwidth issues.

Yeah, I think cloud integration would be a good way to go, for the short term. Internet bandwidth is not that much of an issue since it's only passing text back and forth. There would be a bit of lag but that's not game-breaking. I'd hope in future there will be a lot of optimization that will bring down the size of the models considerably for specific use-cases - e.g. a random orc doesn't have to have all the knowledge of Wikipedia.

@ben_h said:
@wollywoo said:

The debate around what does or doesn't count as "AI" is a little meaningless. AI as a field of academic research has existed for several decades under that name. The name doesn't imply that it's as smart as a human or as Data.

The problem is that it isn't a meaningless discussion because without defining what you mean by "AI" clearly the discussion goes off the rails quickly because what academics consider AI to be is quite different than what tech marketers consider AI to be and further still what writers have labeled as AI in the past. The two examples you gave were quite different and the second one sounded like you meant content generation as a dev tool, which is why most of us responded thinking you were talking about that.

For the question itself, real-time generation of NPC quest dialog or whatever seems like a weird use of LLM text generation because it would require the developer to put a bunch of guard rails up to stop the NPC from going off on a meaningless tangents or would require them to only talk about quest-specific things. It would be a huge pain to train an NPC's LLM to have a certain personality and talk about specific things only. You'd have to do that for every NPC or they'd all talk to you in the same way. At a certain point it would be much less work to just write the dialog instead ahead of time since you'd be able to easily control the scope of the conversation and give each NPC a degree of personality.

Maybe it could be useful for generating dialog for random NPCs that are just in the world so they respond to what's going on? Using LLM-esque tech to generate entire dungeons or quests in real time would suck because it would likely be limited in what could actually be done and none of it would be creatively interesting (remember, LLMs are useless at anything that requires human creativity or remembering of context beyond a surface level. All content LLMs create is inherently derivative. They might "1000 monkeys using typewriters" their way into something interesting once in a while but that's it. Leaving it up to chance whether the thing they create for the player is interesting or not would be awful). You'd end up with a bunch of lego'd together dungeon chunks or generic quest details, which is not really something you need LLM-style tech for since it's been done for decades using other much less computationally expensive methods that would work just as well if not better since the developer would have far more control over potential outputs (roguelikes/lites are already this, for example. You don't need computationally expensive AI methods to make good games that rely on content generation)

Fair enough, I could've been more clear. Regarding NPC dialog staying on-topic, I actually think this is not that hard, at least at surface level. With chatgpt, you can just tell it to act like a certain character and give it rules as to what it can talk about, and it will only talk about those things. If this is all you did, most likely there would be easy ways to jailbreak this and get it to do and say really weird shit, so tuning this properly would definitely be a challenge. But I think it's doable. And I more or less agree with you re: creativity - I'd suggest it'd be used more to augment the authored content with interactivity instead of replacing it. You don't need that much creativity if you're just acting-out a well-defined NPC role.

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wollywoo

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I don't really understand the question. Are you talking about AI asset generation tools? AI within games? Both? It kind of seems like both but in game AI is a totally different issue than the sort of "AI" used for asset generation that we're seeing so much attention on. NPC AI has a much longer way to go before we see a major impact, in part because of the processing limitations of games.

I'm going to use AI the way you seem to be while noting that it's not really "AI" as we see in sci fi or popular culture. These are sophisticated algorithms but have no self-awareness or even abstract thinking.

In terms of asset generation I'm sure it will become a more and more used tool over time, kind of like speed tree but for more and more things. AI tools can do a passable job of creating textures and objects and variations and such. Like Speedtree but for many more things. The AI will generate it and humans will clean it up and iron out the kinks.

But in terms of other stuff while I can see AI being useful for programming tasks (like a super spellcheck/word suggest, which is what it actually is in many ways) the more abstract the task the worse it performs. It's great at making a face that looks like other faces, and probably some animation stuff, but not good at knowing what's true or false, let alone what's fun or good level design.

And of course there will be lots of copyright and labor issues with any "AI" use for assets depending on the training set.

To clarify, when I say "AI" I essentially mean the use of LLMs or other deep-learning models to be used in real-time. Not counting asset or code generation during dev time. That's what's covered in the first poll option, but not what I'm interested in.

The debate around what does or doesn't count as "AI" is a little meaningless. AI as a field of academic research has existed for several decades under that name. The name doesn't imply that it's as smart as a human or as Data.

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wollywoo

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@borgmaster: Can't tell if you were responding to my post above or to what extent that was sarcasm or sincere. But I think the essence of Soulslike gameplay is to put the player in difficult, put surmountable, situations, and to put an added layer of tension by extra punishment for losing, so that the feeling of accomplishment is great. I have no problem with any of that, personally. I just don't like Souls-style slow, heavy control schemes.

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wollywoo

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I just can't with Souls-like combat. I need quick and snappy combat, not slow and deliberate moves. Let me jump in, get a hit, jump out. Give me big glowing weak points and a nice flashy response to hits, ala Zelda. Telegraph enemy attacks more so I have a chance. I don't mind difficult games, but I need to have some control over what's happening. See: Metroid Dread, Hollow Knight, God of War, Spider-Man. Too bad, because the world design from Elden Ring seems so interesting.

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wollywoo

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#9  Edited By wollywoo

The Super Mario Bros. Movie. 3/5. Well, it's a pretty fun watch. I wasn't expecting much in terms of pathos but the relationship between the Brothers is done pretty well. All the references are fun - interesting how it tends to skew toward the most recent Mario games instead of having a lot of nods to 8-bit era Mario.

It seems a little weird to use *forced marriage* as the major threat for a kids' movie in 2023. This will probably go over the kids' heads, but isn't it a little... rape-y in its implications? And yeah I know this was directly from Mario Odyssey, even including the specific outfits. It was kinda weird there too. Also, Jack Black's song is super annoying.

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I will also add: any silent protagonist in a dialogue scene. They usually make pretty derpy faces. BG3 is pretty guilty of this.