Zithe

@Rasmoss said:

@Veektarius: But there is plenty of wrong with the general idea. The ending contradicts stuff in the very same game (the characterisation of the Geth and EDI). It's like whoever wrote the ending didn't read his own story.

The Catalyst acknowledges that. He says his solution won't work anymore. He probably would have said a lot more if BioWare hadn't cut out most of his dialogue.

@dvorak said:

If nothing else this really only emphasizes the fact that the Indoctrination theory is correct. He doesn't say anything about changing things, just clarifying. Usually that is the point of an epilogue. I'm willing to bet (especially considering the little popup box at the end) that this was already in the works from the get-go.

The only real complaint I have in this whole situation is that if they held onto a meaningful end to the story in Paid DLC format, then it's just as Jeff said on the podcast, "games are done."

It absolutely does not emphasize that. This is what happens when you subscribe to silly speculative theories. You can't see things as they are any more. Suddenly the actual endings are unable to be clarified? The indoctrination thing would be more of a change than the true ending. And did BioWare have DLC already planned when they launched the game? You bet your ass they did.

The DLC this refers to will probably include a lot of that information they were going to have in the game but said they ripped out. Their original plan was to have the Catalyst explain everything to you and lay it all out.

@chaosnovaxz: Cerberus had been working with Reaper tech, did you forget that part? That is how TIM controls Shepard and Anderson. He even says something along the lines of "Look what they can do!" when he makes you shoot Anderson.

As for the wound, Shepard just got hit by a huge laser beam and has been injured and hobbling ever since. It would be weird if he wasn't bleeding somewhere.

Just give this shit a rest. BioWare have confirmed that they originally had some kind of Reapers controlling Shepard scene in the works, but they couldn't make it work. Just wait for the DLC which will explain the real ending.

@Rothbart said:

I think it's safe to say that there is no "if" to the whole indoctrination business

Well you're right there, but for the wrong reason. It's not the fucking ending. BioWare did not give us a game with no conclusion. I can't believe you people are still at this after the information that has come out of BioWare since the game's launch. The endings make more sense than you give them credit for, they were just poorly done. There is no need to pull all of this speculation out of your ass to try and cover it up.

@roguehallow: The sad part is, even if EA did ruin the ending, which I see no reason to believe, then BioWare is still done. If EA can force BioWare to do whatever they want, BioWare's intentions are pretty much irrelevant.

@mrsmiley said:

Really. So art assets in the game, as well as dialogue, sounds, characters, etc that all point to this ending (an ending that actually makes sense verses the assumed ending that everyone is bitching about because it DOESN'T make sense), are just made up? I'm pretty sure the dream sequences actually happened in the game. I'm pretty Shepherd getting a wound without getting shot was in the game. I could go on, but it appears that you've already made your decision to believe that Bioware, after their history of incredible writing in Mass Effect and other series, just decided to give up with this one. Ok then.

The actual ending makes sense overall, there are just unexplained plot holes in it just as there are in the indoctrination theory. Neither one is better or worse when it comes to that. The main difference is that the ending in the game actually is an ending and the indoctrination thing is a cliffhanger. The indoctrination theory also requires a lot more speculation to explain the final scenes.

Also, why do you assume that Shepard's wound on his side is a gunshot wound? He just got blasted by a big ass laser.

@Subjugation said:

That video is great. It's unfortunate that a lot of people probably won't watch it out of stubbornness. Until they refute the arguments made in the video, I'll continue to think that it makes a whole lot of sense. Also, that is just really well put together overall.

If you want to believe it, you are free to do so, but this video really does not bring anything new to the table as far as this debate is concerned.

A couple of questions I still have for indoctrinators:

1) Why does Shepard see the Normandy crash landing scene play out regardless of his choice? In fact, why would the Reapers show him this at all?

2) If your answer to the above question is that the Normandy scene wasn't part of the dream and it actually happened, then why does EDI actually not show up in the destroy ending and why does Joker have synthetic eyes in the synthesis ending?

After getting into the video version of Tested's podcast, I really wish the Bombcast would try it out. You don't realize how beneficial it is until then.

@Icemael: Thanks for the update, but I have a small request. If you're going to embed a YouTube video, could you use the real embed URL that YouTube gives so we have full controls (like playing the video in fullscreen)? Otherwise, that might as well be a giant square link to the YouTube page where I do get those options.

@Make_Me_Mad: I'm not an indoctrination believer, but I think their argument would be that having a really low EMS means the Reapers are pretty much unstoppable and so they wouldn't really care about indoctrinating Shepard. I guess if you followed this ending forward, Shepard would still wake up (even though they don't show you this in the ending) and the Reapers would still win. Maybe they kill Shepard before he can even make it to the Crucible or something (because the low EMS means they wouldn't be able to hold them off). It's not a good argument if you ask me, but there you go.