Sometimes I find myself just being a cynical fuckhead for no reason.

I'm not sure which I prefer

Sometimes I find myself just being a cynical fuckhead for no reason.

I'm not sure which I prefer

I competely agree with the community games point. I refuse to waste 200points on any of them, although I would be tempted to spend 50. To be honest though, I don't think MS really cares how much they sell for it is probably just another feature that they can use to make the 360 seem more attractive to new developers rather than an attempt to make lots of money.

Very well done post, Sweep. The point you made about Community Games on XBLA is very valid. I would love to try them, but no one else is going to pay 200 points for these things right? It pisses me off that Microsoft has to push itself in all the time for its piece of the pie.

"Very well done post, Sweep. The point you made about Community Games on XBLA is very valid. I would love to try them, but no one else is going to pay 200 points for these things right? It pisses me off that Microsoft has to push itself in all the time for its piece of the pie.

And for what you said about GTA IV and Saints Row 2, I agree that Saints Row 2 should be getting the negative "moral values" press that GTA IV received. I myself don't even see much of the pure fun that SR2 has to offer. I got it for the PS3 and, yeah, it is fun to go and blow things up with rocket launchers and slice people with chainsaws and katanas, but I didn't feel like I had even as much fun as I did with GTA IV, even with its mature tone.  I understand what you say about corrupting games as well, though of course no one would ever want to play a starving Ethiopian children game...I hope.

"

Ethiopian Zombies is a different matter entirely....

um

sandbox games are MEANT to be "do what you want"... not be a "horrific reality". Thats what makes crackdown so awesome. "here's a gun, super strength, super speed, a car, and a load of gangs... ENJOY". no "oh im some east uerope guy whos well tough and has a social circle blah blah blah zzzzz"

omfg i spent the last 20 minutes writing a huge reply and then clicked a link in the IRC and lost it all. >:(

Fuck it, im going to blog respond tommorrow.

Awesome Blog as always, you got my mind wheels turning.

Another good blog, Sweep. I agree that there is a ton of mindless fun to be had in GTAIV.

I can appreciate what both Saints Row 2 and GTA IV bring to the table, and I would like to play both equally. Nicely written once again there Sweep!

"um

sandbox games are MEANT to be "do what you want"... not be a "horrific reality". Thats what makes crackdown so awesome. "here's a gun, super strength, super speed, a car, and a load of gangs... ENJOY". no "oh im some east uerope guy whos well tough and has a social circle blah blah blah zzzzz""

San Andreas is way better than both for fucking around.

These are 2 different kids playing in the same sandbox.  GTA IV took the series in another direction completely, making a more serious game and practically draining the fun from it.  However, it told a great story, had some interesting characters and tremendous visuals.  As for SR 2, it went the complete opposite direction.  Bad story, not so interesting characters, but a whole lot of fun.

Like so often, Sweep, you've slammed out some gold. I agree with you wholeheartedly on roughly every point you make. Intellectual curiousity and the desire to extend a capability to utilize any degree of ingenuity seems to be going the way of the dodo, in favor of milking franchises that somewhere way back when managed to dazzle people with a creativity long since forgotten.

While it may seem odd to say, I believe that Grand Theft Auto IV is perhaps the most ingenuity-comprised game of this generation. The revolution takes place in the narrative and the emotional impact the characters are capable of making. Never in my life has a video game actually managed to touch me, to make me feel, to quite literally wrench at my heart. Despite a large consensus in contrast to my own sentiments, I really think Grand Theft Auto IV has the gameplay to reinforce the story; however, it was entirely surprising for such transcendence from  video game norms to take place in the most unexpected of all game elements: the atmosphere.

Cheers, Sweep! Keep it up.

P.S. That GTA IV picture is crazy-badass.

"crunchUK said:

"um

sandbox games are MEANT to be "do what you want"... not be a "horrific reality". Thats what makes crackdown so awesome. "here's a gun, super strength, super speed, a car, and a load of gangs... ENJOY". no "oh im some east uerope guy whos well tough and has a social circle blah blah blah zzzzz""

Maybe its just me, but the point of this reply was less than obvious. I think it was something about how Crackdown was better than GTA IV, because it was a "purer" sandbox game. Sir, do you in fact know who the grand daddy of sandbox games is? Sure, once upon a time sandbox games only served the basic purpose of letting the player do whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted. GTA: Vice City is probably my favorite example of this (didn't play too much of San Andreas or GTA III, so there). Does that mean that that should be the only thing that sandbox games do ever? That's like saying that platformers should have never progressed past something like Super Mario 64. A great game, no doubt: but not the highest bar the genre has set in recent years."

Another well written blog post Sweep, and if it was hard for you to write, it was totally worth it. As for whether a progressive narrative or a arcade style game is warranted, I think both have their equal place, as long as they both have good gameplay. Though I totally agree Saints Row 2 took it's direction just for the sake of making itself stand out from GTAIV. There's also no doubt that amateur designers have little chance of their games being taken by game companies, which is a shame, because there could certainly be some really amazing games we are missing on that would only taken a fraction of profit from these big companies. 

Rowr said:

"omfg i spent the last 20 minutes writing a huge reply and then clicked a link in the IRC and lost it all. >:("

Hmm, I don't know that I agree that there's no place for games like SR2. I don't mind games being dumb, mindless entertainment from time to time. And GTA IV is not really all THAT revolutionary. Sure, its story is serious as heck, but it's a story told in cut scenes. Totally disconnected from the actual game. In terms of gravitas it is surely a step forward for games, but they could've done a better job of implementing it. It doesn't make it a better game, in my view (not saying that it isn't, but not necessarily because its story is better).

I mean, it's not like anyone is going to take SR2 seriously. It's the same thins as saying that Don't Be a Menace (2 Society while drinking juice in the hood) is an irresponsible film because it makes light of gang violence.

Do agree on the community games though. Also, I'd love it if they actually made it available in all of Europe, thanks.

"Another well written blog post Sweep, and if it was hard for you to write, it was totally worth it. As for whether a progressive narrative or a arcade style game is warranted, I think both have their equal place, as long as they both have good gameplay. Though I totally agree Saints Row 2 took it's direction just for the sake of making itself stand out from GTAIV. There's also no doubt that amateur designers have little chance of their games being taken by game companies, which is a shame, because there could certainly be some really amazing games we are missing on that would only taken a fraction of profit from these big companies. 

Rowr said:

"omfg i spent the last 20 minutes writing a huge reply and then clicked a link in the IRC and lost it all. >:("

Let me guess... Casey?


"

"no he means that the page opened in the current tab instead of opening a new tab (in firefox at least)"

Great blog, Sweep, and surprisingly relevant considering the whole Grand Theft Auto IV/Saints Row thing that I mentioned in my blog.

To me, GTAIV and SR are two completely different games in terms of what they want to achieve. GTAIV presents itself as what I like to call a "gaming experience" - a game that offers more than I've come to expect from the medium, so much so that I'm no longer just playing the game, but I become involved with it. GTAIV offers us moral choice, provides a significant context for the actions of the player, and places an incredible amount of focus on story an character development. SR, on the other hand, is more of an auxiliary game for me - something to play in addition to, rather than in the role of, my "main game" at any given time. Unlike GTA, the emphasis is placed on making something that is simple and consequence-free, something we don't have to worry about while playing. Saints Row isn't trying to make the player think. It simply gives them a variety of tools and a sizeable environment in which to play with them. The story, the characters, the atmosphere - it's all peripheral stuff, merely a shoddily-constructed rail on which to run an out-of-control, high-speed train. If anybody takes Saints Row seriously, they've majorly misinterpreted what the game is trying to achieve.

I suppose I can draw a comparison with my musical taste. I'm into a wide spectrum of rock music, and what I want to listen to will often depend on my mood. If I want something I don't have to think about too much, I can safely put on something like AC/DC or The Zutons and just appreciate the sound of some pretty good music. Alternatively, if I want to really listen to something, and appreciate all the facets of the music, I'll invariably pick multi-faceted progressive rock bands like Pink Floyd and Genesis. That's how I feel about Saints Row and Grand Theft Auto IV respectively.

I've just realised that I've never left a comment this sizeable on your blog before, and I've also just realised that this is essentially an expanded version of the point I PM'd you about earlier. But what the hell. Thanks, as always, for getting the cogs turning and prompting me to think about why we play the games we play.

"omfg i spent the last 20 minutes writing a huge reply and then clicked a link in the IRC and lost it all. >:(

Fuck it, im going to blog respond tommorrow.

Awesome Blog as always, you got my mind wheels turning.
"

Grand Theft Auto gets the bad pub from the mainstream press, because of GTA III and its offspring. I liked GTA IV until about half way into the game. The fun just left and the game felt like work. I was left with sterotypical characters and women that were treated like objects. I drudgingly played until I couldn't take it anymore and no longer cared about the characters or the story. I wanted to play in this marvelous city Rockstar had created, but I felt grounded by the powers that be. I haven't played Saints Row 2, so I can't compare, but GTA IV left me feeling empty inside. I want freedom in my games of this nature, where tools of gameplay are given to you and magic can happen, something the developer didn't even see when granting you these tools. We'll see were it goes from here, maybe next time, I'll care more. 

But you can play darts with in-game friends in GTAIV.

I thought Darts = Win?

Holey moley, I wasnt expecting so many enthusiastic replies...!!

Oni:

I don't mind games being dumb, mindless entertainment from time to time.

DanK:

If anybody takes Saints Row seriously, they've majorly misinterpreted what the game is trying to achieve.

Dboy:

As for SR 2, it went the complete opposite direction [Of GTA4].  Bad story, not so interesting characters, but a whole lot of fun.

Claude:

EVERYONE ELSE

a complement from sweep!!!!!

i'll never refresh this page again

GTAIV offered a higher quality experience, saints row offered a good quality experience.

If I was stuck on a dessert island and had to choose between the two I would pick GTAIV, but if GTA SA was in that question it would be it.

That games was unparalleled.

Ok i didnt get to the blog, i tried, blogging is such a difficult thing for me. Maybe we can discuss it in the future...

Ill just say, i think its one of the best things about the medium that we can have such a variety of genres and themes to choose from.