Like a fooooolish samurai, I'm thinking about stepping forth to oppose...yeah, I can't make this work. Like an idiot, I'm thinking about buying Sekiro, as it hits the shelves tomorrow for PC and consoles.

• Destructoid
• Gameinformer 9/10
• Gamespot 9/10
• IGN 9.5/10
• Polygon
• PC-Gamer
• VG24/7

I bought Bloodbourne the day it came out, but never even made it past father whatshisname. My daablings with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 2 also weren't all that great. Buuut because I think the setting in this is kinda cool, I'm thinking about repeating my mistakes once more and buying myself a copy tomorrow. Money well spent!

Also surprising no one, the game doesn't run perfectly on any console, though somewhat surprisingly, the MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE on the market seems to run it worse than Pro, which is kinda hilarious and depressing.

Just watching people play it, it looks like it might be the From game that speaks most to me, even if I'll likely always hold Bloodborne up as a pinnacle of top to bottom game design I thought most of the building-sized bosses were pretty bad (Paarl in particular) and I got tired of needing to grind levels with minimum impact level by level because I just wasn't ever a master at that game. The Onimusha vibes, more specific character and plot, combat based around abilities and learning enemies without the RPG stats layer on top of that makes me think this game might really click with me.

I really hate that I'm letting the reverence I have for Bloodborne give me pause from pre-ordering so this game will be ready to play when I get home from work tonight. I'm pretty damn sure I'll at the very least like this a lot but I do worry I'll just constantly be holding it against this thing it doesn't even want to be compared to, really. Hopefully myself and people even deeper in the Soulsborne hole will be able to get over that, it doesn't seem like an especially uncommon sentiment.

Wow, looks like I'm getting it on Pro. I wasn't expecting that

I was really hoping this game would follow Nioh's example and offer a resolution and performance mode. Too much to ask for with From Software I guess. Glad the game is good though!

Kind of disappointing to see this game still have performance issues even on these newer consoles, and even more shocking to see the XB1X have worse average framerate than the PS4 Pro. I was all set to get this for my xbox since I just like relaxing in front of my TV a bit more, but since I have a pretty beefy PC I am now considering getting it there instead. Kind of tired of going through the Valley of Defilement/Blighttown experience again.

Looks great, I can't wait to play this weekend. I have been avoiding watching too much prerelease footage, but to me the combat seems reminiscent of faster games like Ninja Gaiden.

Haven't watched anything on it other then the announcement trailer or two way back when. Nor have I read anything. Listened to the Waypoint podcast on it today, since I didn't have anything else I wanted to listen to while driving all day for work.

My copy is arriving tomorrow so I guess we'll see. I've rated all of these From Software games at the top or near top of my GOTY lists. Buuuuut... The last two weeks I haven't been in the mood to play games? Planning to buy a (sweet) car in the (distant?) future so all my free time has been spent watching related videos and reading. What I'm trying to say is, I'm afraid this is going to show up and I'll play it a little bit but then kinda.. feel bleh whatever on it and rather lethargically veg' out and binge watch a Netflix show. Especially if Sekiro is a harder overall game like Patrick/Austin suggested. Not sure I need a challenge right now. Or maybe it is exactly what I need right now..

I’m so excited for this! Bloodborne is probably my game of the generation.

It’s a bummer about the performance difference between the Pro and X (since I ordered it on the X) but I’m not really sensitive to fluctuating frame rates so I doubt it will bother me too much. I just wish that From would give the option to run the game at 1080p so that the frame rate could actually run at a stable 60 or at the very least, let me lock the game at 30.

I’m just glad that the load times are brief because that’s what bothered me most about Bloodborne, not the frame rate.

A little past the quick look so far and I am having a real blast with the game. As I said in the GB discord, this game feels like the perfect blend of Bloodborne and Tenchu. The grappling hook makes it a little easier to get out of dodge if you're in over your head and readjust yourself. Combat clicked with me more or less right away, even if it at times completely kicks your ass for a slight miscalculation. As with the souls games, I am getting a bunch of stuff I don't know when or why to use. Story and characters are interesting so far. Overall I am really excited to keep playing it.

In his impressions piece, Austin was more effusive in his praise for the game than I expected. I'm very much looking forward to playing more.

If anyone comes into this thread in the next 12 hours or so that has played this and DMC5...can I get a recommendation of which I should pick up first? I will be buying both, but it isn't a money problem, it's a time one. I love both styles of games, but definitely was a bigger fan of the Souls games (although hearing about how different this is, it sounds like that doesn't really matter).

I'm just looking for some feedback for which people think might be the most fun to dive into quickly for the weekend. Thanks!

There's a really miserable early road block that feels awful compared to all the other things I've been fighting. It's so out of place.

@efesell: Are we Talking Gascoine bad or even worse?

I can't really say since I don't exactly know what he's talking about, but the only thing I can think of isn't really on the same level. It's more of a typical souls puzzle boss ala Chaos Bed or Dragon God.

As for first impressions, I'm... pretty much where I expected to be. Took me about 10 minutes to not give a shit about the story or setting, but the combat is engaging enough. I know it's pretty hypocritical considering how much "blood" is squeezed into Bloodborne, but I just rolled my eyes after hearing "Shinobi" and general Japanese honor bullshit over and over and over. Fortunately the supporting progression system is a bit better than I expected, but it's not strong enough to where I think I'll end up playing the game over and over.

My biggest issue so far though is that it feels sloppy at times, to the point that I started to wonder if this was a B team effort akin to DS2. Both the backstab and the jump attack can be really fiddly, which isn't great in a semi-stealth game, and the fact that you exit sneak stance any time you do anything is just strange. It can also be frustrating to deal with the fact that you have edges that you both can and can't run over.

I really enjoy the verticality though, and the levels have a bunch of nooks and crannies to explore. I just wish there was more to find than another ceramic shard, sugar or balloon.

@soulcake: Similar? It uses a lot of quick grabs that feel a little wonky with timing and tracking and just taking a single one will fuck you up. It definitely ended my initial session on a sour note.

@sethmode: DMC5 you can beat in 9-10 hours (but it has a lot of replay value with its harder difficulties) whereas this apparently takes 50 hours to beat. I haven't played Sekiro yet, but I absolutely loved DMC5. It's up to you on figuring out what helps you get more bang for your buck.

@sethmode: If you are considering time, DMC5 will only take you 10-12 hours to beat on Normal mode. It's a dense campaign that is perfect to bang out over a weekend. Sekiro is more the length of a souls games, so 50 hours more or less. I'd go DMC5.

Not that it matters, since I've aready purchased it, but while it downloads, how does it compare to Nioh? Hopefully better? God Nioh was so repetitive, and I hated the loot system.

@nevergameover: Personally I prefer Nioh, Sekiro looks much nicer and probably has a bigger selection of enemies (havent finished it) but I actually liked all the different weapons and armour you had in Nioh. (not to mention all the different abilities you could have in each stance)

The traversal stuff is good though, it feels great to able to swing across the map so fast, hide, and then stealth kill some enemies who are scurrying around looking for you.

Yeah, I'm just not into grindy loot games like Diablo or Destiny at all so the loot aspect was really outputting. I like knowing that every item I find is uniquely crafted and not procedurally generated. I hated the gems in bloodborne for the same reason.

My intial impression is that it's not bad, but I'm not in love with it the way that I am with Soulsborne:

• Thumbs down to the lack of character creation and the lack of RPG stats
• The controls don't feel as tight as souls
• The parry mechanic is sort of neat. I'm assuming combat will get more complex but no strong attack? Don't love the forced two handing
• The grappling hook allows you to come at encounters from unpredictable angles which harms the level design

I will wait for a Steam sale I think. It looks very good, but I don't think I will ever beat it due to the challenge. I mostly want it because I miss Tenchu. Also I really want a new Ninja Gaiden game.

If you hold R1 you get a thrust attack. It's basically the equivalent of a strong attack from DS.

Day 1: I had fun playing a slightly disappointing Souls game.

Day 2: Miniboss, Miniboss, Boss, Miniboss, Boss and I have three more boss fights waiting for me.

If boss fights was what you came to this game for you might have a good time, if you're looking for anything else it's a disappointment. I'm on what's basically the second or third real boss in the game and it already did miniboss straight into boss and on top of that the boss itself did the good old surprise extra stage after beating it.

@nevergameover: I cannot for the life of me understand what you could possibly mean by saying that the Souls games have 'tight' controls and that this does not.

Just as I suspected, this game keeps kicking my ass and I'm likely never going to touch it again, once the next big game that interests me comes out. But it's been...kinda fun despite it? Money well spent, as with BB!

@efesell: I can. I'm running into issues with commands not coming out correctly fairly regularly. Either my guy chooses to swing instead of backstabbing, or somehow he dodges into an attack instead of countering or you get stuck on an invisible cliff wall. There's a lot of these small idiosyncrasies to how this game controls. While Souls games might not have the most responsive combat at least it's pretty damn consistent in doing what you tell it to do.

I even had a enemy with like a sliver of health left do an air attack, I hit him twice while in the air, he landed and did his swing and then we both died.

I haven't had any of these issues.

@ares42: That's very strange.

The only thing I've seen is in relation to the backstabbing and that is a little finicky because a stealth kill requires that you be neutral and if you move even the slightest then it cancels out.

The rest I can't say I've encountered.

Is combat all about extreme patience? I got to the first sorta mini-bossy kind of guy that starts doing sweep attacks and thrusts and died on him about 15 times. Then I found the tutorial guy after that which helped. But it seems like you should be parrying more than actual attacking? And only really attack when you have a deathblow (or if you are just fighting the weaker enemies since you can spam them).

@handlas: You shouldn't spam a tough opponent since they will eventually deflect your own attacks, but you should keep up the pressure and then dodge away or deflect their own strikes. A pure waiting game is probably safer but also slower and not as much fun.

Think I'm gonna finish a couple other RPG's first including maybe Dark souls 3 before I start this, I saw it get 9 to 9.5 in many places and is very different from DMC games so I guess we'll see.

@handlas: I'm on the drunken miniboss right now and it's kicking my ass, but what I'm learning is that you often want to try and deflect strings of attacks, rather than deflect/attack/deflect/attack. Each deflect will do posture damage and then, at the end of the string, you can lay in with a few attacks to finish it off. If you use the axe or the thrust move you can sometimes knock them off balance to get some more attacks in, but I find that finding a rhythm to deflect attacks works better.

@handlas: My approach has been to attack any time you don't have to defend and then react accordingly. The biggest hurdle I had to unlearn from Souls is that you have no stamina. You can go ham as much you want as long as you're safe and your opponents will mostly either block or do a charge up attack. It can be hard to react when they choose to just take the damage and punch through it, but you can fairly consistently anticipate an answer to your swinging 2-3 strikes in. Also, get the thrust counter asap, it's pretty much essential for most harder enemies.

I've found much more success constantly pressuring my opponents rather than trying to find openings in their attacks. If you don't hurt their vitality it's gonna take forever to break their posture, if you'll be able to break it at all. (posture damage increases based on lost vitality)

As I expected, I don't think I can enjoy this game right now. I just don't have the patience. Dying over and over again on the same dude. Running back, killing everyone else along the way every time etc etc. Feeling nothing but frustrated, which is exactly how not to make progress in these games and knowing that I've beaten them all and love them snowballs the frustration even more. I know how to do it, I just don't want to. I need easy junk food gameplay right now because only time I feel like doing anything is on the weekend and guess what.. its already half over in the blink of an eye.

And you watch ENB's walkthrough episode 1 and hes destroying it. Makes me feel like I shouldn't even bother playing it and instead just watch him.

Edit - Also, another factor is that I only ever play these games once. I beat them at release and then that's it. So I don't have that gameplay style ingrained into my mind. I relearn it every time one comes out and then erase it when the game is over. Seems like most fans of these games play them non-stop between releases.

Thanks for the tips. I got to the spear mini-boss guy... I think I'm just actively hating the game at this point. It started to click for a bit but after dying to the spear guy 10 times I'm not much wanting to go back at it. Something about the controls just feel sluggish and the parrying seems imprecise. I dunnno... there's no stamina bar but it just feels like I'm playing a Souls game with a character that is fat rolling with no stamina left. Also the stealth seems completely pointless; you get seen from a mile away and with groups of enemies that are looking at each other in a circle; there's nothing to do but be seen immediately.

@handlas: If you buy those two stealth upgrades then it becomes a little ridiculous what you can do without being seen.

I've played about 6 hours and my general feeling is that I want to like this game more than I do. I love the concept, and I love the feel of the combat when it works. Unfortunately, that "when it works" is kind of a big caveat.

Too much of the movement feels floaty and imprecise, particularly the jumping, and I feel like there is this weird lag with just about everything I do. Anytime you attack, it feels like you need to wait a half beat for the input to register. Even then, it sometimes feels like the game is completely misinterpreting my inputs. I've had a half dozen times when I want to dodge a particular direction and the game sends me completely the opposite way. The game demands a certain level of precision but seems unwilling to give it to you with the controls.

I dunno. I've played every single Soulsbourne game to completion and really liked them, but I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to stick with this one.

Man, I've had none of the control issues people are mentioning in the slightest; this very much feels like a faster and more precise iteration of the prior games' combat when it comes to the basic attacking/blocking/dodging/deflecting (and I say that having just finished DS3). Loving the mobility, loving the combat, loving the boss fights.

If I have a complaint, it's that the mob enemies seem (so far) almost entirely un-threatening—to the point where it feels like I'm flipping between two different games when I go from fighting basic mobs to bosses; I'm hopeful this'll improve later on, given that I'm only 7ish hours into the game and have only completed the first two major areas/bosses. In that same vein, though, I also think that—while I love the degree of mobility offered—it feels like the AI haven't been given tools to deal with that increased player mobility; watching enemies toss rocks at me as I dart across rooftops, dangle off the edge to lose aggro, then drop down and assassinate them, feels kind of silly, and is another thing I hope that later game enemy variety will serve to fix; the bosses/mini-bosses have all mitigated this in some way, whether simply through arena design, or through their own abilities, so at the least it hasn't broken the game, but I do feel it trivializes some of the basic exploration that provided so much of the sense of danger and discovery in the Souls games.

With that said, let me reiterate: I'm loving my time with the game, I haven't had any of the control issues others have mentioned, and, as someone who came into Sekiro a bit iffy—worried that I might not be up for another From game quite yet—the game has far exceeded my expectations. So hey, mileage may vary, but I just wanted to toss out a more favorable impression for those still teetering on the fence.

*Edit* Should mention I'm playing on PC; doubt the issues others have mentioned have to do with the supposed performance problems on consoles, but I figure it's worth mentioning regardless.

humm i bought those 2 now and honestly am not seeing much of a difference. But I'm still in the same corridor running up, killing the 8 or so enemies to the spear guy. Died to him another 10 times... most of which I feel i parry his hits every time yet die regardless. And the tracking on the dodge, him just rotating mid attack to hit you when you dodge, wow. I'm officially done sadly... if only I could refund. This coming from someone that beat all Dark Souls and Bloodborne (my fav souls game).

Alright lol my bitchin is over... onto a more friendly game. Maybe I'll play Bloodborne! I think the fighting based mostly around a parry system is not for me. I never parried in Dark Souls or Bloodborne.

edit: Gave it another 5 tries because I really don't want it to defeat me. It did. There's no doubt a 1 second input delay to everything for me on the xbox. Makes it nearly impossible to reliably counter attacks. That sealed the deal for me... can't beat the 2nd mini-boss. Done done done.

About 5 hours in...really not enjoying it. I feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall against almost every mini boss/boss so far and getting zero sense of accomplishment after finally getting past them, especially with how frequent they are. It took me nearly 20 tries to finally beat the chained ogre(the tracking on that close range grab is complete crap, if you try to side step around rather than back he snaps to you)... only to immediately go to another mini boss, now with more regular enemies around. The regular enemies themselves are no problem but I'm tired of them already and I don't think the stealth is particularly well done. Also feel like the progression is pretty pointless, I certainly don't mind the loss of stats(or weapons and armor even) but the skills i've seen so far don't amount to much.

I've been enjoying this game so far, in that masochistic "first time through a Souls game" kind of way where I'm pissed off because I keep dying over and over again but I still want to keep playing because when I'm doing it right, man I feel awesome. And I'm "doing it right" just often enough for me to want to keep playing.

That said, some parts of this game do feel rather bullshit-y. That Chained Ogre fight has become rather infamous. I felt like I had the fight damn well mastered except for the lunging grapple attack. He would dive at me and I would get out of the way... and then I would teleport into his hands despite being well out of the way. This consistently happened to me. Dodge backwards? You're fucked. Dodge to the left or right? You're fucked.

There are some ways to mitigate this, but none to completely eliminate it that I've found. You can be super aggressive and stay in his face and he seems to do it less often, but this gets you killed by his other attacks that are more easily (and fairly) dodge-able unless your timing is just ungodly perfect.

You can also take advantage of one of the prosthetic powers that bursts flame out of your palm, but there are two big fucking problems with this. The first is that the flame power is slow, closer range than you think, and the Ogre is pretty fast so your window of opportunity to use it is too limited to reliably keep him from doing the lunge-grab. The second is that it relies on a limited, farm-able resource. I never beat Bloodborne partially because blood vials are a limited, farm-able resource that you depend on and I sure as hell am not going to go farm shit once every three or four deaths in this game. Not my thing, not going to do it, will go back to Dark Souls for my Souls fix.

Other than this one boss and his one bullshit lunge attack, I haven't run into any major problems with this game. I have my own tiny little complaints - I really hope we get to see some cool new areas at some point, all of the coverage I've seen takes place in kinda the same environment.

Anyway, if you're a fan of Souls games and definitely if you're a fan of Bloodborne, I think this is well worth checking out. Just keep in mind that this game is different enough that your skills aren't necessarily going to translate over. You will need to "get good" all over again for this one.

I do wish that death didn't carry such a heavy price. Either let me recover my stuff like in previous games or don't make me lose currency and experience upon death. No, having a chance to keep all of your stuff doesn't count.

About 90 minutes in and I'm liking what I see so far. Love that Japanese language is the default and that this game is telling a definitive story, curious to see what From Soft try to do with that since it's been a while. I'm by no means a fanboy for this era of their games - hell, I've only played Bloodborne and I never beat it - but the Dark Souls content on Giant Bomb was some of the best on offer and despite not meshing with BB enough to complete it, I do consider it one of the most completely designed games of the modern era (even considering all the cut/altered content).

The idea of the skills is very interesting to me since the power ramp for me in Bloodborne pretty much only consisted of me grinding levels until I hit harder, whereas this game seems designed more like the games I typically play, where player skill increases at the same time combat options increase. Because of the jump button and emphasis on parrying over dodging I'm not sure I'll ever get as locked into this combat as I did God of War, but as someone who played God of War immediately after Bloodborne I'll say that those two games don't do this game many favors. Bloodborne felt a little easier to read between the lines when it came to enemy attacks, and God of War was just so damned polished. I think I heard somebody somewhere say that this sometimes looks, feels and plays like a PS2-era game with PS4-era mechanics and I'm leaning toward agreeing with that sentiment.

But time will tell if that's just me needing to adjust to what this game wants or not. I'm making a lot of simple mistakes when I die, getting cocky with my attacks, not recognizing what animations cancel an what don't, overemphasizing dodges over parries (I never parried in Bloodborne outside of the bosses that required it and only got into the parry game moderately with GoW's NG+; I also don't parry in Dead Cells, it just isn't in me) and this missing on the bonus 'damage' to enemy posture and so on. If I can't get over that hurdle I'd argue that's my fault, not the game's, but it may make getting to the end a tall ask? Can't say for sure yet, obviously.

So far though, I don't feel like this game is unfair, just that it's going to take some getting used to. One thing I deeply, deeply appreciate is that you don't lose important items when you die. I can't recall if this was also the case in Bloodborne, but I died shortly after acquiring a new Shinobi Tool upgrade that I know from pre-release coverage is important for an early game boss and threw up my hands in (self) disappointment only to realize I at least still had that in my inventory.

I'm very eager to get out of work tomorrow and have the following Sunday evening and all of Monday to chip away at this thing and see if we can find a rhythm together or not. I've never really played games in more than a casual way but in the past couple years I've really been enjoying some games on harder difficulties - Bloodborne, God of War's hard mode on NG+, Spider-Man's ultimate difficulty on NG+, Dead Cells with Boss Cells activated, so in some way I see this game as my ultimate hurdle and I'm eager to commit to it after 17+ years of cheat codes, sports game franchise modes and standard AAA fair. Bring it on, Sekiro!

@justin258: Abuse that resurrect power if you have a lot of things you wanna keep. You can pop back up and usually escape back to an idol which will then recharge straight away to use again.

You can just buy Spirit Emblems at any Sculptor's Idol. They're super cheap, like 10 Gold per or something like that. A good way to "bank" gold prior to a tough boss fight if you think you are going to die a lot.

@handlas: how did you buy upgrades? Im at the same stupid fucking spear boss and I havent seen a spot to buy upgrades yet. It says I need 4 beads or some shit and I barely have 1. I also turned it off and im pretty sure im done with it. Trying to make my way back to that spear guy everytime is a pain in the ass slowly trying to kill these guys without taking damage but being seen from a mile away and having arrows and dogs charge me immediately is annoying as shit. Then I finally get to the boss guy and I have to kill 3 fuckin people around him slowly and quietly first. Then I get to die in 20 seconds to the spear guy and do it all over again. Not having fun at all. I feel like I have to be missing something.

Also having a giant white wall of air stopping me from walking forward until I kill this random mini boss is fucking dumb.

Not sure if you've played any Souls games, but that's basically it, unless I've missed something all this time as well. That was one of the reasons for why I gave up on BB, because it just felt so overwhelming to always clear my way through the other mobs to get to the boss, only to die right away and repeat the whole thing. Lord only knows why I repeated my mistake with this, though the mobility, being able to one-shot enemies and reset their aggro by hiding does make clearing them at least somewhat faster in some situations.

Also I just watched a LP of this particular boss this morning and the guy took him down on their first attempt, which kinda reassured me that this game's probably not for me. I'd say that it would be great if there weren't so many mini bosses, as when I'm dealing with regular enemies, I almost forget that this game actually kicks my ass regularly and begin to enjoy it...but being able to one-shot and evade them also makes it almost too easy at times.

One thing to keep in mind from Bloodborne because it does still very much apply to this game is that the general mobs are mostly there to farm items and practice new skills or warm up for boss fights after taking a break from the game. Every enemy lading up to the spear guy can be snuck by until the shield guys who you can just run past and then camp on the roof until they go away. I'm also having a lot of trouble with spear man myself, but the whole area leading up to him and even his combat arena are a lesson in not being afraid to retreat and compose yourself. It's a bold design choice inasmuch as most players these days are pretty conditioned to constantly move forward, but I find it kind of refreshing even if all three mid-bosses currently open to me are wiping the floor with me right now, I can see clearly that it's me at fault and not the game.

Watching Chris and Tim's second Sekiro stream on Kotaku actually steeled me with some more confidence for when I get back to this tonight. They do a brief moment breaking down the block/deflect/parry system and made it clear I should just be blocking in general way more often to dial in deflect/parry timing. They tackle the spear guy's zone, and spear guy himself, pretty effectively, and it's clear to me I'm just mashing and action-gaming my way through it to a quick death in ways this game is never going to acquiesce to.

With dark souls you are usually close enough to the boss door that you can run past the enemies.

Just a hot tip for people having trouble with spears; Mikori Counter Skill. Also if it's a mini boss at Hirata Estate; Stay on the bridge and let him come to you. Also, always sneak up and deal an initial deathblow free of charge.

I am really liking how the boss encounters I have had so far (two mini bosses and one bigger one, but I am also seemingly taking things way out of order) have felt a lot like puzzle games that once figured out is not nearly as daunting as they were before you figured it all out. At that point it's mostly execution of the solution.