This guy is practically begging to be flamed. My opinion is right, everyone else is wrong! Wah wah wah. Some people are enjoying the game more than you did. Get over it.
Shadows of the Damned
Game » consists of 9 releases. Released Jun 21, 2011
As demon hunter Garcia "F**king" Hotspur, players must venture into Hell itself in order to rescue Paula, Garcia's innocent girlfriend, from the sadistic torments of Fleming, the Lord of Demons.
Yeah, set me on fire, but I agree with IGN...
@Noct said:
I've bolded an area below. This statement is a matter of perspective. There is no difference between what you find to be unforgivable and what I find negligible. This is not what I take issue with; I don't care what "score" this man or that man thinks a game deserves, or what qualities inform that score. I take issue with your lack of vision; the same lack of vision that many video game reviewers seem to have. A game is not its polygons, controls, or bugs. A game is a collection of aesthetic choices, among many other things. Saying that I am "wrong" for enjoying a game based on what it's trying to accomplish, just because the game has mechanical problems, is close-minded and infuriating to me. That is all.
@Getz said:
You and IGN are reviewing the game mechanics. Alex was reviewing the product as a whole. I don't think you're an idiot for not liking it, but I think you're an idiot for thinking these things can be objectively valued this way.
I'm an idiot for thinking that serious flaws in a game (that hamper the experience) should detract from it's overall review/score? Umm...isn't that was a score does, gives you a general overview of whether the good points outweigh the bad?
Ok, a few things in there I need to argue with... First, I'd like to think I know what goes into a game, I've been playing them for about 30 years, I develop software profesionally, and Ido amateur game development in my free time. A game may well "be" it's design decisions, but it is also it's mechanics and bugs. I'm sorry if you don't feel that way, but I certainly do. If I release a piece of software that is riddled with bugs, my QA department doesn't come back with , "Hey, this interactivity is broken, but the design is so nice we're going to release it anyway". Sorry, but in my humble opinion, you can't have one without the other. Heh, you say you think I'm an idiot for " thinking these things can be objectively valued this way", but then you do just that! You're evaluating this game based on one set of merits, it's design decision, humor, style, etc.. I'm just saying that the mechanics play a big part in that evaluation man. I think it's just as idiotic to say they don't matter if the style is strong.
And AGAIN.. I NEVER said there was anything wrong with anyone enjoying this game. For the umpteenth time, I ENJOYED THIS GAME.
@Skooky
said:
@Noct
: Your review reads as:THREE STARS And you really have beef with Alex's review?problem
problem
problem
problem
mention alt-fire and light mechanic
problem
same problem
same problem
problem
half a sentence of praise before mentioning a paragraph of problems
holy fuck a paragraph of praise
problem
problem
praise from out of nowhere
problem
Evil Dead
Yeah, again, I'm not a reviewer... I gave my user opinion on how I felt playing the game. I personally feel that you don't have to go into crazy detail describing the story or exact gameplay of a title in a user review, that IMO is what pro-reviews are for. I give user reviews from the perspective of, "this is what stood out to me, how I felt about what i saw, and whether or not I think this game was worth the purchase." Don't I have the right to have a different review style then what I am accustomed to seeing in pro-reviews?
And I don't see why you question the 3 stars... Like I have said, over, and over again, I enjoyed playing this game, and there was a lot to like about it. Not for one second did I say this game wasn't worth playing or deserved some horrible review that tries to convice people they shouldn't play it. I think it's an enjoyable game, and its worthy of a rental or a cheaper price tag, so I gave it 3 stars... That doesn't add up to you?
@The_Nubster said:
@Noct: You keep saying you're not trying to discredit anyone's opinion, yet you always come back to "The score doesn't make sense, it had so many problems, I don't get why Alex gave it 4 stars." He gave it 4 stars because he liked the aesthetic and humour of it, and his review reflects that. There's nothing wrong with the score he gave it, nor the score IGN gave it. Reviews are opinions; stop saying Alex's opinion doesn't add up, because it does. In one paragraph, you say " For crying out loud, I enjoyed the game, I was just trying to say that I was amused and shocked that for ONCE, ever, I agreed more with an IGN review then a GB one..." and then go on to say " Saying a game is 4 out of 5 when it has this many problems just doesn't add up to me. Maybe I don't understand the entire scoring system at all..." The scoring system is based on the reviewer's opinion, and Alex's was a positive one. End of story.
Yeah...to ME, that score doesn't make sense, is there something wrong with that? I understand that a review is a completely subjective opinion, but when you assign a number to it, you are saying that overall, the game as a whole had this much value. As I've said, I'm beginning to completely question what the scoring system means after this thread, and I'm starting to realize that said number does not reflect the pros and cons of the game weighed out in a value, just a persons overall feeling on the game. I personally have never understood it to mean that, I guess I've always looked at it wrong.
Im not gonna set you on fire, but people have opinions and you saying "i dont know what game alex was playing" was really dickish when you know there are people, like me, who love the game and enjoy it for what it is.
I agree, and your absolutely right. Again though, that was just my poor attempt at being clever or funny. I haven't for one second tried to degrade anyone for enjoying this game. If you like it, more power to you. I was just trying to get a feel from the rest of the community on whether or not they found it strange that a game with so many problems scored so high here. And really, I was trying to point out that for once in my long history of dismissing the reviews over there, I actually for once found the IGN review to be more on point with my personal feelings about a title.
@TotalEklypse
said:
I felt like this with Bayonetta. What a pile of shit that game was. Yet it got praised..
Hmm, I don't wanna go off the rails here, but I really enjoyed Baynoetta... Was there some fundamental flaw with it's gameplay that I'm not remembering? It was a wierd, quirky game, but I personally loved the style and thought it controlled extremely well. Why did you think it was shit?
@RE_Player92 said:
A couple questions and I'm not trying to sound like a douche. Why are you ranting about this game while at your day job? Do other people really influence your enjoyment of a game to a large degree? Does her giving you dirty looks because you are playing a game really make you feel like an idiot (in her eyes as you put it)?
Well, because I finished my work for the day and I don't have anything else to do until tomorrow, since you asked... We're not in crunch-time atm, so I'm free to pretty much do whatever I like. Heh, I like to blather on about games and I love to argue my viewpoints, so I choose to keep coming back here. I assure you, there are also weeks where I stay up till 3 in the morning to finish something and don't get paid any extra, so it all balances out. :)
As far as other people's opinions on a game go, in some respects, it matters, yes. Whether or not you like a game doesn't impact my ability to do so, but if 10 people tell me X game is awesome and I need to play it, I may well buy it. That's sorta what happened here; I was on the fence about this and the generally glowing reviews I read pushed me over the edge. Again, I don't fault anyone for their opinions, I don't blame anyone for my purchasing it, and I don't regret buying it, but, that said... Would I have bought it if every review said it was garbage? Probably not... (Not that I'm saying this is garbage, I'm just making a point)
As for my wife's opinion, of course it matters to me, but that wasn't even what I was trying to get at. I just meant that, while it didn't "bother" me so much, I didn't find the jokes clever or funny, I found them kinda stupid after a while. Her looks just reiterated that other people would agree. Again, if you thin kit's clever, awesome, laugh your head off, I personally just didn't think so. This certainly doesn't make or break the game regardless, I just wondered if this sense of humor/presentation was what had pushed some people over the edge of looking past the flaws, because in my eyes, it didn't.
@Tesla said:
This guy is practically begging to be flamed. My opinion is right, everyone else is wrong! Wah wah wah. Some people are enjoying the game more than you did. Get over it.
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. You get the gold star for reading comprehension there. You and the guy who told me to shut the eff up should go hang out, I think you would get along. Have a nice day.
I would love for you to explain one thing: how is the lighting "atrocious"? I felt this game had some of the best lighting I've seen in any game especially the way the torch lights up Garcia and the scenery. I think it's your personal tastes that keep you from enjoying this game as much as others. It's not a case of "Oh you guys are so blinded, let me tell you the REAL truth." Because then you just come off sounding like an ass.
@Liquidus said:
I would love for you to explain one thing: how is the lighting "atrocious"? I felt this game had some of the best lighting I've seen in any game especially the way the torch lights up Garcia and the scenery. I think it's your personal tastes that keep you from enjoying this game as much as others. It's not a case of "Oh you guys are so blinded, let me tell you the REAL truth." Because then you just come off sounding like an ass.
I never discredited anyone else's opinions on this game, and I never even tried to imply that my opinion was better or closer to the "truth" then anyone else's.
As far as the lighting goes, yeah, I totally think it's atrocious. It is hugely over-saturated and makes everything look really bizarre. There is this constant saturation of whatever color your gun is on Garcia's face, and I hated the way it made the game look. And, as I mentioned in my user-review, the lighting doesn't seem to apply to everything, which is also just wierd. Like, an enemy can be bathed in total darkness and yet his blood is lit up like a friggen Christmas tree. That's not good lighting in my humble opinion. These things of course could be seen as a design decision though, so maybe just calling it "lighting" was a bad choice of words on my part. The actual light coming off your gun and light sources and stuff seems to be pretty dynamic and light up most of the surrounding objects, so in general the lighting "works" well enough, but I stand by my opinion that the color saturation does not look great and distracted me from the overall presentation of the game.
I personally thought the character design, models and textures in the game were outstanding. It's that bizarre black foggy border around the screen and neon saturation of light on everything that makes it look so unappealing to me.
The really sad thing here in retrospect is that I traded this game in already, and I'm kind of sorry now. I bought RE:Mercs 3D with the credit, and that's far worse then this game. This was a friggen masterpiece in comparison.
Really? I am just putting words in your mouth. You never wrote, and I quote this from your review, "As far as the visuals go, they are definitely a mixed bag. Most of the models are great, and the demon designs rock, but there's some jaggies, some blocky edges, and the lighting is just atrocious" ? As well this next one is from your opening post! "It's a solid 2.5/3 out of 5, but this notion I keep seeing around here that this game is so awesome and you're an idiot if you don't think its great, etc... Sorry guys, you're kidding yourselves." We're kidding ourselves, are we? Sounds an awful lot like you thinking your opinion is better than others. Also this "...in what looks to me to be some "blinded by charm" viewpoint that doesn't make any sense to me." I'm quoting all of this because it seems you completely forgot how you opened this topic and how you came off as. It's cool that the game isn't so great, no game appeals to everyone and I have nothing against IGN for giving it a 7/10 if that's honestly what they felt about the game. However, to me and almost everyone else on here, you make it seem as though your opinion is absolutely the right one and anyone who differs is crazy as oppose to representing it as your opinion. You probably didn't mean it that way but that's the way it came off.@Liquidus said:
I would love for you to explain one thing: how is the lighting "atrocious"? I felt this game had some of the best lighting I've seen in any game especially the way the torch lights up Garcia and the scenery. I think it's your personal tastes that keep you from enjoying this game as much as others. It's not a case of "Oh you guys are so blinded, let me tell you the REAL truth." Because then you just come off sounding like an ass.
*Sigh* Once again, someone is trying to put words in my mouth... I never discredited anyone else's opinions on this game, and I never even tried to imply that my opinion was better or closer to the "truth" then anyone else's. As far as the lighting goes, yeah, I totally think it's atrocious. It is hugely over-saturated and makes everything look really bizarre. There is this constant saturation of whatever color your gun is on Garcia's face, and I hated the way it made the game look. And, as I mentioned in my user-review, the lighting doesn't seem to apply to everything, which is also just wierd. Like, an enemy can be bathed in total darkness and yet his blood is lit up like a friggen Christmas tree. That's not good lighting in my humble opinion. These things of course could be seen as a design decision though, so maybe just calling it "lighting" was a bad choice of words on my part. The actual light coming off your gun and light sources and stuff seems to be pretty dynamic and light up most of the surrounding objects, so in general the lighting "works" well enough, but I stand by my opinion that the color saturation does not look great and distracted me from the overall presentation of the game. I personally thought the character design, models and textures in the game were outstanding. It's that bizarre black foggy border around the screen and neon saturation of light on everything that makes it look so unappealing to me. The really sad thing here in retrospect is that I traded this game in already, and I'm kind of sorry now. I bought RE:Mercs 3D with the credit, and that's far worse then this game. This was a friggen masterpiece in comparison.
It's funny how this thread went from "we're not going to set you on fire just because everyone disagrees with you" to "man, wouldn't this thread have been much better if we just set that dude on fire?".
Good for you for having your own opinion, you are one step ahead of the internet.
Really? I am just putting words in your mouth. You never wrote, and I quote this from your review, "As far as the visuals go, they are definitely a mixed bag. Most of the models
are great, and the demon designs rock, but there's some jaggies, some blocky
edges, and the lighting is just atrocious" ? As well this next one is from your opening post! "It's a solid 2.5/3 out of 5, but this notion I keep seeing around here
that this game is so awesome and you're an idiot if you don't think its
great, etc... Sorry guys, you're kidding yourselves." We're kidding ourselves, are we? Sounds an awful lot like you thinking your opinion is better than others. Also this "...in what looks to me to be some "blinded by charm" viewpoint that doesn't make any sense to me." I'm quoting all of this because it seems you completely forgot how you opened this topic and how you came off as. It's cool that the game isn't so great, no game appeals to everyone and I have nothing against IGN for giving it a 7/10 if that's honestly what they felt about the game. However, to me and almost everyone else on here, you make it seem as though your opinion is absolutely the right one and anyone who differs is crazy as oppose to representing it as your opinion. You probably didn't mean it that way but that's the way it came off.
Yep, and there you go attempting to do it again... You can quote sections of my speech (out of context) and try to misconstrue their meaning all you like; it doesn't change what I said or what I meant.
Your first quote is implying that I am disputing that I said the lighting was atrocious; I'm not disputing that at all, which seems pretty obvious to me since I reiterated that view in my response to you.
Next, you (and you’re the like fifth person to do so) are trying to say I was implying people who liked the game are "kidding themselves", and that's not what I was saying, at all. I was saying that you're kidding yourself if you think IM AN IDIOT for not being able to look past the faults of this game despite you thinking it has such a charming presentation... I've already explained this multiple times in this thread, and I even went as far as to go back and edit the OP to emphasize what I actually was saying there. I can't help it if you can't understand what you're reading.
And again, NOT ONCE have I said that anyone else's opinion was wrong, I wasn't even implying that Alex's was. The entire point of this thread was to express my confusion over how a game with such glaring mechanical flaws and dated game play could receive such a high praise from a reviewer whom I respected. It was never really about score or the numbers assigned to it, and I've already conceded that I never should have even mentioned scores in the first place. I've also admitted directly in response to Alex that his review was not fresh in my mind when I started this thread, and that after going back and reading it I realized he had in fact mentioned some of my problems with it. The point remains the same though, he gave it a very favorable review, and I thought it seemed too dismissive of the problems it had.
The point was about this notion that this game's charm outweighs its flaws, and I personally don't find that to be true. The whole "Blinded by charm" thing (and my jokingly calling Alex a "hipster") was in reference to the repeated responses that I "Just don't get it". This to me is exactly what you are accusing me of. People are insinuating that there is something wrong with me, or my opinion of the game because I couldn't look past its flaws to enjoy whatever it is they see here that I don't...
And again. . . I enjoyed this game, quite a bit actually; I just didn't understand how so many people could not see why I felt it had more problems than value.
Good for you for heaving your own opinion, you are one step ahead of the internet.
yeah, apparently so. I don't know what I expected here; I should have known the majority of the people frequenting this game's forum were going to be fans of it. I guess I just expected a more logical, reasonable debate on the merits of the game then this constant attack and defense of my speech that I've seen here. I'ts almost like people just don't read reponses, or just read whatever they want into my words, despite thier actual meanings.
@Rolyatkcinmai said:
It's funny how this thread went from "we're not going to set you on fire just because everyone disagrees with you" to "man, wouldn't this thread have been much better if we just set that dude on fire?".
Hah, now that made me laugh.
@Elazul said:
Man, this thread is weird. Since when does a 7/10 review score for a game with an 80% average need to be fucking defended?
Never said it had to be defended, and as I've mentioned, I've already conceded that I never should have mentioned the scoring what-so-ever. I should have just said, "I don't understand how this game is getting such a favorable review when it is so dated and clunky.", and left it at that. I put my own foot in my mouth a few times, and people either just aren't reading my responses here, or still just don't understand what I was trying to say.
@Agent47 said:
@Noct: Seems like you just had a more horrible experience with it than most people.From the looks of your review I would say so.I've never witnessed any texture pop in which I am surprised as it is Unreal Tech 3.
Well, thats a fair comment, but I honestly wouldn't say I had a horrible experience with it, not by a long shot. Hell, I woudln't have played through it if I thought it was horrible. I enjoyed it quite a bit, it was just a let-down to me, and it was (and still is) surprising to me how many flaws people are willing to overlook because they like the overall presentation or humor.
I gotta say I'm pretty shocked you didn't see any issues with Texture Pop-in though. I'd say maybe it's just my Ps3 getting old or something, but I have heard similar reports form other people. I'm not even talking subtle stuff here man, at the one big boner segment where you have to keep going back to the billboard, I literally stood there for several seconds waiting for the texture to load in just so I could read the thing.
@Noct: Okay, then tell Me: What do You wanted to achieve with this Thread?
Achieve? Uhh... distraction, entertainment, understanding? I dunno, what do you hope to achieve with any post on a message board?...
I was bored at work, noticed that for once since the evolution of man that I agreed more with an IGN review then a GB one, and I thought I'd discuss it with the GB community.
This notion that this thread is bothering some people or should be locked, ignored, better if it never existed, etc.. I just don't follow. If you're not entertained by reading it, or don't want to actually contribute to the discussion, then don't read it... Seems pretty simple to me. I'm not trying to hamper anyone else's experience, I just thought it would be interesting to get some other people's take on this.
The really interesting/enlightening things to me in this whole experience are:
A.) That the staff actually reads and comments on threads here. Heh, I honestly did not consider that possibility, and I wouldn't have been quite so jokey or questioning of Alex's review had I realized that. Now I just feel like he (and most other members of this community) now think I'm one of these crying, attention-whore trolls who wants to argue over the points system, and nothing could be further from the truth... As an amateur/aspiring game developer, I don't need the "Big Rigs" guy to dislike me. =P
B.) That people will post to a thread they haven't read. (I think I knew this one already, but it was reiterated to me here)
C.) Some members of the GB community are not the more mature, open-minded people that I think the majority of the user-base are, and there are jackasses here just like everywhere else on the interwebz.
D.) People tend not to understand what I'm trying to say. I thought I ws a pretty well-spoken dude, but apparently not.
E.) In the future I may just keep my opinions to myself, and I will NEVER mention a review score in conversation on GB again.
IGN is WAYYY too hit or miss with its scoring to trust anymore.
IGN is WAYYY too hit or miss with its scoring to trust anymore.
I wholeheartedly agree. That was a big part of my point. I was just stunned that I agreed more with them then GB/Alex, on anything, ever. They both mentioned a bunch of the flaws in the game, but it didn't seem to distract from Alex's overall impression or recommendation of the game like it did in theirs. He was pretty vocal about saying that it wasn't for everyone, but he still gave it a much bigger pass then they did on being so clunky and archaic. That was my entire point here, it was never that I wanted to argue about point values.
Its a complicated issue for me. I mean I know the score is there for people who dont have the attention span to read or publishers that want something they can slap on a box, but really if your scores dont match your written opinions, wtf is being accomplished? When I ask my friends what they think about games I dont say "well everything you just said is nice BUT, what would you give the game 1 out of 10?"
IMO the area of any review where the most 'selling out' takes place is in the numerical/grade score.
I can totally see where this game is not for everyone, you are certainly justified in your critiques. However, for those that love the game, its MORE than the sum of its parts.
If you condense the experience down to 1. Dick Jokes, 2. Mechanics, 3 Setting, 4 Music, etc. you are kind of missing the games charm and more so its point.
Again I don't want to come off as some douche who thinks his opinion is the right one, as I said this game is not mass market material. I respect your opinion, but several site are also agreeing with Alex's experience (Gamespot, Games Radar, etc.)
This game, is about having a fucking good time and each element, in my opinio lends itself to that very cause.
Most sites have started displaying reader ratings next to the editor rating which does a BETTER job inserting some reality into the equation but if I had my way there wouldn't be scores; just the written review. What site did the 'reviewers tilt'? I always liked that- it helped indicate a reviewers preference.
I know in today's world its impossible, but I used to love how EGM had 3 reviewers score each game. Though their reviews were limited to a small paragraph, it always gave 3 different opinions of the same title.
Hell- i'll even take a second opinion blurb; some mags have done this too. Really this just boils down to me being angry that publications continue to give musou titles for review to people who hate musou titles- half the review is just them trying to sound clever about a game they consider bad from the get go.
So you decided you needed a thread to complain about a review you hadn't taken the time to read in a week? I can't figure out how this went wrong. And for the record, I think it's less your differing opinion and more your personal attacks that get on people's nerves.
Texture pop-in on a game made in Unreal engine? Who'd have thought it.
I can totally see where this game is not for everyone, you are certainly justified in your critiques. However, for those that love the game, its MORE than the sum of its parts. If you condense the experience down to 1. Dick Jokes, 2. Mechanics, 3 Setting, 4 Music, etc. you are kind of missing the games charm and more so its point. Again I don't want to come off as some douche who thinks his opinion is the right one, as I said this game is not mass market material. I respect your opinion, but several site are also agreeing with Alex's experience (Gamespot, Games Radar, etc.) This game, is about having a fucking good time and each element, in my opinio lends itself to that very cause.
Well first, you didn't come off as a douche at all. You actually gave an insightful comment that benefits the discussion; I wish I could say the same of the vast majority of the others....
What you said is pretty much exactly what I question. This notion that a game can be better or worse then the sum of its parts, and have that "worth" be reflected in the score/review seems somewhat strange to me.
I totally agree that you can have fun with this game, and it had a lot of things going for it, my problem with it was how prevasively people were willing to overlook the "flaws" to see the other stuff behind it. I've seen polarzing games before, but I don't recall ever seeing so many people defending a game so hardcore in spite of it having issues with it's mechanics. But then, I guess the majority here don't think it has mechanical problems. I didn't think that was a subjective opinion, but it sure seems that way to me now.
@mrangryface said:
Its a complicated issue for me. I mean I know the score is there for people who dont have the attention span to read or publishers that want something they can slap on a box, but really if your scores dont match your written opinions, wtf is being accomplished? When I ask my friends what they think about games I dont say "well everything you just said is nice BUT, what would you give the game 1 out of 10?"
IMO the area of any review where the most 'selling out' takes place is in the numerical/grade score.
Hear, hear. Again, I don't choose to buy or ignore a game based on the score, but it definately sends an overall message about the quality of a game. From the responses I've read in this thread, it seems like a lot of people think the score shouldn't or doesn't reflect the pros and cons of the game, and that not only differs greatly from my understanding of it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If the score is just some meaningless number assigned by an overall impression or like/dislike of a game, and does not include any examination of the strengths and weaknesses, it seems pretty pointless to me for it to be there.
If you don't like America, then you can GIIIIIIT OUT!!!
So you decided you needed a thread to complain about a review you hadn't taken the time to read in a week? I can't figure out how this went wrong. And for the record, I think it's less your differing opinion and more your personal attacks that get on people's nerves.
First of all, I wasn't complaining, I was trying to have a discussion. And you do have somewhat of a point there, as I definately should have re-read it before I posted, but whether or not I remembered the exact wording of the review is a bit irrelevant to my point here. The point was that the final score or overall "judegment" of the game did not seem to reflect the pros and cons (IMO). As I've said, apparently I've misunderstood all along what those scores were supposed to mean; I'll know better going forward.
And please, do show me where I made a personal attack on anyone here... I've been completely open-minded and without judgement of anyone in this thread, despite other people not showing me that same respect.
The only thing that you could even marginally say was an attack or insult was my (jokingly) saying that Alex was reviewing the game from a hipster perspective, but I've already apologized for that.
@Make_Me_Mad said:Yea its tough sometimes as inflection and sometimes context are harder to discern from written text. I wouldn't take any of it personally as folks are just passionate (one way or the other).First of all, I wasn't complaining, I was trying to have a discussion. And you do have somewhat of a point there, as I definately should have re-read it before I posted, but whether or not I remembered the exact wording of the review is a bit irrelevant to my point here. The point was that the final score or overall "judegment" of the game did not seem to reflect the pros and cons (IMO). As I've said, apparently I've misunderstood all along what those scores were supposed to mean; I'll know better going forward. And please, do show me where I made a personal attack on anyone here... I've been completely open-minded and without judgement of anyone in this thread, despite other people not showing me that same respect. The only thing that you could even marginally say was an attack or insult was my (jokingly) saying that Alex was reviewing the game from a hipster perspective, but I've already apologized for that.
So you decided you needed a thread to complain about a review you hadn't taken the time to read in a week? I can't figure out how this went wrong. And for the record, I think it's less your differing opinion and more your personal attacks that get on people's nerves.
Personally I give you plenty props for trying to address each comment and do so in a meaningful way. =)
As an addendum: SotD just received Games Radar's "Game of the Month" award, for whatever that's worth.
Still a very polarizing game IMO.
Yea its tough sometimes as inflection and sometimes context are harder to discern from written text. I wouldn't take any of it personally as folks are just passionate (one way or the other). Personally I give you plenty props for trying to address each comment and do so in a meaningful way. =) As an addendum: SotD just received Games Radar's "Game of the Month" award, for whatever that's worth. Still a very polarizing game IMO.Yeah, I think I've always realized that, but I guess I didn't understand just how powerful that lack of understanding can be. Apparently I need to use more emoticons or something. ;)
And thanks for that, I honestly did think I was being pretty fair in here despite others not doing the same. I understand passion, there are things I will vehemently defend to the death, like certain political or social topics, but it seems strange to me that people get so bent out of shape over a game. It almost comes across to me sometimes like some people feel the need to defend a game just because they own it. I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but I get that impression sometimes.
Hah, as far as the award goes, I would think that would be a pretty subjective thing in the first place. I mean, all it has to do is beat anything else that month to be the "best of the month". If there was nothing but garbage released, seems like it would be pretty easy to achieve. I don't think this game is garbage by ANY stretch of the imagination, but I surely woulnd't give it the game of the month award, especially since Zelda OOT hit in the same time-period. That game is a thing of beauty. Is that award specific to ust one console, or does it not include handhelds? It's interesting for sure...
You started this thread off basically stating that you felt cheated by Alex's review of the game. In your first post, you're claiming that the staff and userbase is somehow pressuring you to like it, or "implying that something was wrong with me if I couldn't look past the issues in this game to see the gem that it is". That's pretty ridiculous, as even in the quicklook of the game Jeff and Brad's main enjoyment comes almost entirely from the humor. It's said almost everywhere you look that it's a competent shooter, pretty much like Resident Evil 4 and 5, but with the added bonus of being able to move while you shoot, and somehow you came out of Alex's review feeling sour enough about it to make a thread specifically about how you disagree with him.
But then, you come back and reread the review that caused you such trouble to begin with, and you're saying that it turns out he did mention a lot of those problems you had with it. You were just misremembering the whole time, what a silly but understandable mistake! Instead of just apologizing and letting it drop, you revise your statements and start claiming that it was more about the tone of the review, how you feel he just glossed over all the problems because of how much he enjoyed the story/humor. You later realized that you had a grave misunderstanding of how reviews work, as it's not supposed to be a cut-and-dry laundry list of flaws, but rather the impression the reviewer was left with when they played and finished it. Obviously, the technical issues were annoying enough to be mentioned, but they didn't hamper Alex's enjoyment of the game enough to lower the score by a lot. You felt differently, and wrote a review of your own! That was the right move.
It's where you start playing the victim, saying that people are only twisting your words or misreading your comments because they can't handle your opinions about a game they love, that you probably started to make people mad. It's no big deal at all on these forums to claim you hate something everyone loves, as the multiple threads about Half Life 2 being boring can attest, or even someone in this thread who can't stand Bayonetta. That was my game of the year in 2010, and a lot of people loved it, but almost no one batted an eye at that statement... funny enough, one of the only people to jump on that comment and start questioning reasons was you.
My point is basically that you made a lot of mistakes when you first posted this, as you've acknowledged yourself. I'm not saying it should never have been posted, by any means! There are lots of flawed threads that turn out great. What I am saying is that people pointed out holes in your original post, Alex himself came in to address some of these issues, and instead of being magnanimous about it you decided to start lumping people into groups you could all but ignore, labeling them as mindless fans of the game who'd do anything just to take a stab at you.
I imagine the fans of the game (which I actually am not one of. It's alright, but I'm only in it for the music) would love to have a reasonable discussion about this, but instead they get you discounting them from word 1 as some kind of weird, cult-ish following around this game who hates anyone that doesn't love it.
Dude, saying that you don't get it isn't a passive response. It means that you don't appreciate or enjoy the style of the game. Which is fine. However, the biggest problem stems from the fact that you cannot understand how someone would appreciate the style. Not getting something is fine, not understanding how something with merit can be appreciated by others in a way that you don't, isn't. But i guess you don't get that either :)
Wait...just wait here...returns after 5 minutes with a @TekZero said:
You just made me add "people who say: you don't get it do you" to my list of people i despise.@VelvetLore04 said:
you just didn't 'get it', man
Good to know my opinion and the opinion of a critic I trust is wrong. Guess I'll just forfeit my ability to judge anything else from this point on, then. Thanks!
Nice to have a perfect example of what I was talking about above right here.You either just didn't read the whole thread, or had some fundamental misunderstanding of what I was saying.
I at no point said anyone's opinion was wrong, including the fanbase here or Alex. He liked the game, more power to him. The majority of the people here seem to really like it too, and I at no point said any of them were wrong or that my opnion was the "right" one. (Besides the fact that I liked it too)
The entire point of this discussion was how I found it strange that the flaws in the game (most of which he noted) did not seem to detract "points" from his overall review of the title. At IGN they seeemd to take all of those issues as factors in scoring or giving an overall impression of the game. Alex seemed to be willing to look past the faults (despite mentioning them) and give a pretty glowing review of the title. That's all I was questioning, not his enjoyment of the game. Cripes, I don't know why I bother continuing to reiterate the same point when people clearly don't even bother to read what i'm posting in the first place. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment.
@Noct
:
You started this thread off basically stating that you felt cheated by Alex's review of the game. In your first post, you're claiming that the staff and userbase is somehow pressuring you to like it, or "implying that something was wrong with me if I couldn't look past the issues in this game to see the gem that it is". That's pretty ridiculous, as even in the quicklook of the game Jeff and Brad's main enjoyment comes almost entirely from the humor. It's said almost everywhere you look that it's a competent shooter, pretty much like Resident Evil 4 and 5, but with the added bonus of being able to move while you shoot, and somehow you came out of Alex's review feeling sour enough about it to make a thread specifically about how you disagree with him.
But then, you come back and reread the review that caused you such trouble to begin with, and you're saying that it turns out he did mention a lot of those problems you had with it. You were just misremembering the whole time, what a silly but understandable mistake! Instead of just apologizing and letting it drop, you revise your statements and start claiming that it was more about the tone of the review, how you feel he just glossed over all the problems because of how much he enjoyed the story/humor. You later realized that you had a grave misunderstanding of how reviews work, as it's not supposed to be a cut-and-dry laundry list of flaws, but rather the impression the reviewer was left with when they played and finished it. Obviously, the technical issues were annoying enough to be mentioned, but they didn't hamper Alex's enjoyment of the game enough to lower the score by a lot. You felt differently, and wrote a review of your own! That was the right move.
It's where you start playing the victim, saying that people are only twisting your words or misreading your comments because they can't handle your opinions about a game they love, that you probably started to make people mad. It's no big deal at all on these forums to claim you hate something everyone loves, as the multiple threads about Half Life 2 being boring can attest, or even someone in this thread who can't stand Bayonetta. That was my game of the year in 2010, and a lot of people loved it, but almost no one batted an eye at that statement... funny enough, one of the only people to jump on that comment and start questioning reasons was you. My point is basically that you made a lot of mistakes when you first posted this, as you've acknowledged yourself. I'm not saying it should never have been posted, by any means! There are lots of flawed threads that turn out great. What I am saying is that people pointed out holes in your original post, Alex himself came in to address some of these issues, and instead of being magnanimous about it you decided to start lumping people into groups you could all but ignore, labeling them as mindless fans of the game who'd do anything just to take a stab at you.I imagine the fans of the game (which I actually am not one of. It's alright, but I'm only in it for the music) would love to have a reasonable discussion about this, but instead they get you discounting them from word 1 as some kind of weird, cult-ish following around this game who hates anyone that doesn't love it.
A fair response, but I certainly don't agree with it, and I don't think I've changed my point or tone at all, just how I was conveying it, as people didn't seem to be understanding what I meant.
First of all, I didn't say I felt cheated, (in fact, I even said that I didn't regret buying it), I said bamboozled. By that I meant that I got (and still get) the impression from that review that yes, he noticed some "flaws" in the game, but he felt they didn't distract from the overall enjoyment of it, which is something I totally disagree with. On top of that, the larger point was that I've always agreed with every review he's given, so I was personally very surprised to for once, totally disagree. I know he said in there that this game "wasn't for everyone", but for some reason I didn't put myself in that club when I read it. I certainly can't blame Alex for that, but I can surely express my confusion over his praise for a game that I don't think deserves it, and that was all I was ever trying to get at.
Next, you say it's ridiculous that I felt that the userbase is saying there's something wrong with me if I don't get it, and I wholeheartedly disagree there. I'm not going to bother quoting individual people, but this pervasive notion that I "don't get it" is everywhere, and it implies that there is some "club" I'm not a member of so to speak that sees this game as something different then I do. In my opinion, Alex's review even gives that impression. When you admit to knowing that there are flaws with a game and that it has very dated gameplay, but still imply that it's a "great" game, you're suggesting that there is some underlying thing about it that makes it greater then it's flaws. Seeing as how I don't see that, that leads me to believe that some people want me to think I just don't understand it, or don't have the "Right" sense of humor or appreciation of this game. That was the basis of my stupid joke about him reviewing it like a hipster, like I'm wrong because I can't see what's "cool" about this game.
As far as re-reading the review goes, really, nothing changed in my second view other than my realizing that he mentioned more of the flaws then I remembered. It didn't change anything as far as my original point was concerned. So, I'm really not sure why I should have "apolgized and let it drop". I didn't say anything contradictory before or after that point, and I still stand by my original question/problem with it that I don't understand how he could give that score (or overall review) to this game.
And I never said I misunderstood reviews, I said that afer reading this I'm starting to think that the score is not what I thought it was. I aalways assumed that the score was an overall evaluation of the g ame's pros versus aits cons, and people have argued with me in here that it is more just an overall impression of how the user felt playing the game. That's not what I've ever understood them to mean. For example, as I mentioned earlier, I truly enjoyed playing "Enter the Matrix". I had just a fantastic experience with it and spent just hours and hours playing it. Were I to write a review of it, I certainly wouldn't give it a 5 out of 5 rating, because it has a lot of serious flaws. That to me is where the disconnect is happening, and what I was questioning in the first place.
As for me "playig the victim", I don't think that's fair. I never claimed that people disagreeing with me was the problem, I was just talking about the people saying that I just don't get it, attempting to twist my words into something I never intended them to mean, or simply telling me to shut the eff up. A lot of the same people that are defending the game and there right to have a different opinion of it then me were the first ones to say I was a jackass or wrong for feeling the way I do.
I don't think there are holes in my original post at all either. I just think I should have worded things differently, and never mentioned the actual score, as that set people off thinking I wanted to argue about a difference in rating, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
As far a lumping people together, I think I was pretty clear about that man.. I never tried to put everyone who liked this game into some box (and again, I liked it too), the only generalizations I've made in here are towards the troll types or the people who say that I "just don't get it". Everyone else here I've tried to debate in an open and honest fashion. I havent' discounted anyone's feelings on this game, I've just said that I have noticed that people are much quicker to just jump on me and attempt to twist my words around, insult me, tell me to leave, etc, then they are actually willing to discuss what I was after in the first place. I also think it's interesting that despite all the hate, not many have even tried to debate any of the issues with it. I think it's really interesting that the same group of people who so vehemently attack me for disagreeing with Alex's evaluation have yet to even attempt to talk about the actual problems I mentioned and whether or not they were bothered by them. That's where I get the notion that some people will just defend something because they own it. It's like, everyone sees what's wrong here, but nobody wants to admit they see it. I get an emporer new clothes vibe here like I haven't seen in ages.
people who cannot grasp the concept of differing opinions, apparentlyI disagree with the staff all the time. Who cares?
It's really starting to seem like you can't grasp the idea of people liking a game for the merits of it's story or humor, in spite of any sort of bad gameplay or technical issues. If that's the case, I really don't know what to tell you. It's not like people who enjoy the game's humor are some kind of secret club of elites who look down on you. They just aren't that put off by dick jokes, weird accents and bizarre nonsensical hell logic. No one important thinks less of you for not liking the game! Quit acting like everyone is out to get you in all this!
It's a brand of humour that doens't appeal to everyone.
It makes sense.
I played a game and have a different opinion then the Giant Bomb review, why am I compelled to make a thread?
From the quick look it looked alright to me. The shooting did look kind of dull but I'm gonna wait until this bad boy drops down in price to make a call on that. Also the dick jokes are pretty dumb I agree.
Fill that thread with your hot juicy boner sex boy.
GOTY 2011
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