Giant Bombcast 11-22-2011

Aweso-mer? Is that the name of the new elf race in the Elder Scrolls universe?

Why the hell is Will using heavy armor and playing as a Dark Elf? Dark elves get a big light armor class bonus.

Mega-Jessup! I heard that name and immediately started laughing. I need to go back and listen to that episode of MBMBAM again, it was great.

I need to know more about the smoked turkey! A link, a video...something!

The bitching about the lack of tutorial stuff in fighting games is nonsense. If you play a lot of a certain fighting game eg. Street Fighter 4, then when you go look up a FAQ on more advanced techniques it all makes a lot more sense. However, clearly the staff (even Jeff) do not play enough of those types of games to reach that level, so stop complaining that there is no tutorial of something you are clearly not interested in mastering in the first place, because if you were, in the 'what did you play this week' segment, people would mention a fighting game on a week it did not come out. Leave the hardcore to the hardcore and just continue to enjoy fighting games casually ie playing it for around 2 weeks after it comes out and never really touching it again. The more advanced stuff is clearly not for you guys, and if it was, you would know that the number one key thing to do is practice practice practice! and not sitting there wishing there was some tutorial which magically makes you amazing at the game, because only playing the game over and over again can truly accomplish this, and then, Ryan Davis, you will know 'when' and 'where' to do these things none of you have any clue about.

@whatthegeek said:

I know how to avoid a phishing scam, I don't give my passwords out to anyone, I don't sign up for "free microsoft points" sites or anything of the like, and I use strong passwords.

Same deal with me and a friend of mine and we both had our accounts compromised in the last month.

Hey Bethesda, want to patch something? Try making my save files smaller. 11Mb and I have to save every 15min because I'm petrified of lockups. I don't mind the lockups, I have my Stockholm Syndrome fully engaged because I have played enough of your games but fix the damn save size. Seriously.

@nail1080 said:

The bitching about the lack of tutorial stuff in fighting games is nonsense. If you play a lot of a certain fighting game eg. Street Fighter 4, then when you go look up a FAQ on more advanced techniques it all makes a lot more sense. However, clearly the staff (even Jeff) do not play enough of those types of games to reach that level, so stop complaining that there is no tutorial of something you are clearly not interested in mastering in the first place, because if you were, in the 'what did you play this week' segment, people would mention a fighting game on a week it did not come out. Leave the hardcore to the hardcore and just continue to enjoy fighting games casually ie playing it for around 2 weeks after it comes out and never really touching it again. The more advanced stuff is clearly not for you guys, and if it was, you would know that the number one key thing to do is practice practice practice! and not sitting there wishing there was some tutorial which magically makes you amazing at the game, because only playing the game over and over again can truly accomplish this, and then, Ryan Davis, you will know 'when' and 'where' to do these things none of you have any clue about.

You and this paragraph are exactly what is wrong with fighting games.

@Javes: Didnt he also say he is trying very hard not to min/max?

Whatwhat? Secret British, eh? Will Smith's Fairly Secret Army? I'm sure he can exec-ute on a plan.

Ryan you better have saved that turkey carcass for at least a stock or SOMETHING!!

The argument over the pronunciation of "executable" is possibly the most epic moment in the history of podcasting.

Executable. I think the pronunciation is the same in the UK as in US. I checked the OED.

Great Podcast! Need more Skyrim!

What the fuck are you guys talking about.... Canadians have Thanksgiving AND Boxing Day...

@nail1080 said:

The bitching about the lack of tutorial stuff in fighting games is nonsense. If you play a lot of a certain fighting game eg. Street Fighter 4, then when you go look up a FAQ on more advanced techniques it all makes a lot more sense. However, clearly the staff (even Jeff) do not play enough of those types of games to reach that level, so stop complaining that there is no tutorial of something you are clearly not interested in mastering in the first place, because if you were, in the 'what did you play this week' segment, people would mention a fighting game on a week it did not come out. Leave the hardcore to the hardcore and just continue to enjoy fighting games casually ie playing it for around 2 weeks after it comes out and never really touching it again. The more advanced stuff is clearly not for you guys, and if it was, you would know that the number one key thing to do is practice practice practice! and not sitting there wishing there was some tutorial which magically makes you amazing at the game, because only playing the game over and over again can truly accomplish this, and then, Ryan Davis, you will know 'when' and 'where' to do these things none of you have any clue about.

I find your logic delightful. You might want to listen to what they were saying a bit more closely, because what I heard was that they just wanted fighting game tutorials that actually taught players the logic and general situational contexts for applying advanced mechanics and not some magical "auto-mastering" program. And I agree with that sentiment completely. Of course the only way to get truly great at any game is to practice over and over again, but when somebody is just getting started, it is utterly absurd that they should inherently have to consult FAQs and YouTube videos just to grasp the finer mechanics of many fighting games beyond "do this joystick motion and hit these buttons to execute an attack." It makes the games that much more intimidating and obscures developer intent for the mechanics to anybody who isn't a genre veteran. Maybe you're okay with that because you learned the ropes and grinded your way to mastery since the resources to get better at them or even understand how it's all working inside weren't provided in the games you started with either, but that shouldn't have to be the case for every single player that wants to get their feet wet in the genre.

Virtually no other genre of games today can get away with so consistently not teaching amateur players the ropes within the bounds of the games themselves and yet here we are in 2011 and many fighting game developers still can't be bothered to teach anything more than maybe movelists and basic combos. Clearly people like you don't need anything more than that since there's a lot of relative mechanical parity between fighting games these days, but, honestly, what all do you have to lose in developers putting more time and thought into their tutorials? As far as I can tell, nothing at all. You'll still be great at a game you choose to enjoy while new players interested in them can actually learn a thing or two about what they're playing and if they come away from a game not all that into it, then at least they'll actually be able to potentially articulate why. As it is, it seems like a lot of frustrations you'll find from amateurs trying to figure out a fighting come from the idea that they don't know how and why the other guy's joystick movements and button presses were any better than theirs since the game doesn't give them the direct, guided training to better interpret what's happening on the screen and why.

If people had to consult a FAQ or YouTube for how to use something as simple, yet crucial as iron sights in Call of Duty, that game would be nowhere nearly as widely played as it is and yet, comparatively speaking, fighting games tend to not go out of their way to introduce players to basic concepts like cancelling or, if they do, why it should actually matter to their style of play. I don't get why that should be excusable for fighting games and only fighting games. The fact that new players have to figure that on their own with outside resources is "what separates the men from the boys" when it comes to fighting games, I guess, but at least in my opinion, the game itself being a poor teacher for how to play it shouldn't be the reason for why such echelons of skill exist.

@Pepsiman said:

If people had to consult a FAQ or YouTube for how to use something as simple, yet crucial as iron sights in Call of Duty, that game would be nowhere nearly as widely played as it is and yet, comparatively speaking, fighting games tend to not go out of their way to introduce players to basic concepts like cancelling or, if they do, why it should actually matter to their style of play.

This here perfectly represents why your argument is flawed. You cannot compare such a simple thing as holding down the LT button (for aiming down iron sights) to something such as cancelling in a fighting game, which is clearly a move that you only really 'get' or know when to use it if you have invested many hours in the game. Nothing can teach you this skill in a 5 minute or even 30 minute tutorial, it is only something you can be interested in doing and will be only able to achieve if you play the game every week, preferably with friends who are good at the game or high level online ranked play. Becasue if you are trying to learn this in a tutorial before you have invested many hours into the game, it's a bit like knowing how to derive the equation which proves what gravity is, but not knowing what gravity actually means. You will not know when to use this or who to present this information to.

It is the same reason that in your first biology class you don't learn about all the different theories of enzyme kinetics and how they work, instead you are shown a basic drawing of a plant, maybe with a few lines on the basic principles of what defines life. The things you want in a 'tutorial' are impossible to 'teach' in that sense, instead it is up to you to be able to build up the knowledge of the game by, in the case of science, studying it and building your knowledge, or in the case of a fighting game, practicing, playing other players, and gaining experience where you might learn something new as little as every month if you've played the game for 100s of hours.

But hey maybe they should just make fighting games like Call of Duty, or Bayonetta easy mode where all the moves are done for you instantly, because who needs to learn and use their brain right?

@benu302000 said:

I would REALLY like a MW3 spoilercast

Yeah, i'm interested to hear what Jeff has to say. Maybe someone can get him to speak his mind about the ending on Jar Time.

@1p said:

@benu302000 said:

I would REALLY like a MW3 spoilercast

Yeah, i'm interested to hear what Jeff has to say. Maybe someone can get him to speak his mind about the ending on Jar Time.

It doesn't leave you hanging, that's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyv2R21A7VA This is what happens when I look up Giantbomb Dubstep...Not bad, but too short.

Smithing is actually a lot of fun but more useful early on. I imagine Smithing will be frustrating to do at a high level since you won't be able to make anything good until you hit 50 or 60. And really that's me guessing because if you already have Dragon or Glass armor then there's really no point other than improving what you already own.

Another point on Call of Duty is I know people who only buy the yearly Call of Duty games. There aren't a ton of gamers at my work, and most of them only play Call of Duty for the multiplayer.

Trine looked nice, but boy was it ever boring. I never finished it.

Fuckin' A! I blast that Mannheim Steamroller shit too! :)

@bobtastic715 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyv2R21A7VA This is what happens when I look up Giantbomb Dubstep...Not bad, but too short.

Lol. This .. is .. awesome!

I know I'm gonna aggravate a lot of people just by saying this, but what the heck: I thought it was really boring bombcast.

Apology accepted, Jeff.

@HaroldoNVU said:

I know I'm gonna aggravate a lot of people just by saying this, but what the heck: I thought it was really boring bombcast.

I love that you make it sound like that was a rebelious statement. Next your going to say politics arent always boring. Shocking!

Does anyone have a link to the Khajiit build they were talking about?

wanna kill a dragon with my bare fists

Will Smith

IN

Executable Decision

@Slaneesh: not rebellious, just annoying to a group of people.

Best episode in awhile duders.

Executable!!!! I laughed pretty hard, awesome episode guys.

Also one of the only ways I could condone multiplayer in an elder scrolls game would be if there was an online arena mode (as in Oblivion's arena). Co-op could be cool but I agree with Brad; it really is about that lonely single-player experience.

Oh yeah, I watched that Star Trek thing. I loved it. It's always amazing to see two casts from different generations come together.

This has been one of the best for awhile. If only vin dog could have been there to add his input on this awesome podcast.

Oh that executable thing had me laughing so loud.....

Megaman wood.

<3 will smith

Loved the part about the Seagull and the Bagel. Hilarious stuff. 
 
Great episode. Best in a long time.

Holy shit, Patrick went to UIUC?! Shit, I'm a senior here now! Volition was actually doing a signing of Saints Row the Thirds at the Gamestop on Green Street!

@Skullgirls talk: VIRTUA FUCKING FIGHTER 4: EVO

@LandGrinch: http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61-33394/i-punch-giants-how-to-become-a-master-of-unarmed-combat/35-524255/#121

No Vinny? WTF..

Animated gif's are animated jiff's. If you need to use a hard G thats fine, but i think the context should be enough to clarify whether someone is talking about peanut butter or animated images.

@SatelliteOfLove: True, but there's never been something like that for 2D fighters. I've ended up saying "OTG" around people before and was embarrassed at the stares I got.

Am I the only one that wants a full blown Skyrim episode really bad?

This episode was one of the funniest in a long time. So many great moments.

@Zolfe said:

In west Philadelphia born and raised

On the playground was where I spent most of my days

Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool

And all shootin some b-ball outside of school

When a couple of guys

Who were up to no good

Startin making trouble in my neighborhood

I got in one little fight and my mom got scared

She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'

Got your Will Smith joke out of your system I hope

@MrJorOwe said:

@Zolfe said:

In west Philadelphia born and raised

On the playground was where I spent most of my days

Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool

And all shootin some b-ball outside of school

When a couple of guys

Who were up to no good

Startin making trouble in my neighborhood

I got in one little fight and my mom got scared

She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'

Got your Will Smith joke out of your system I hope

Gotta pay the trolls toll to get into that boy's hole!

@TopSteer said:

@LandGrinch: http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61-33394/i-punch-giants-how-to-become-a-master-of-unarmed-combat/35-524255/#121

Thank you kindly