Giant Bomb Presents: Checking Your Blind Spots

Will this have spoilers? -- I don't even know if it's about TLoU.

The description seems to imply that it's an interview with someone who did a panel, and not audio from the panel itself? So probably not, but also maybe?

The description seems to imply that it's an interview with someone who did a panel, and not audio from the panel itself? So probably not, but also maybe?

That was a pretty good listen! Thanks Patrick.

No spoilers 14 minutes in.. They mentioned the last of us as a good example, but it's mostly about games in general.

Edit: Nope zero spoilers, but a really interesting interview. :)

building stories for wider audiences

Oh boy. Am I right in guessing this just another 21 minutes of drivel about perceived sexism and "inclusivity"?

@erhard: maybe you shouldnt make baseless assumptions about somethig you haven't listened to yet?

@erhard: am i right in guessing this is a baseless assumption you made without listening to the interview first?

@ripelivejam: It isn't baseless, it's based on previous observations and the description. And I thought it was obvious that I made it before listening.

Well that was kind of a let down. I thought this was a podcast where the guys talked about tLou. Might as well liste-Oh...More talk about sexism in video games. Fuck this earth!

The description is confusing. Was the panel about building stories for wider audiences and the missteps along the way, or is this interview or both?

I think her comments about shooters was weird, especially considering how many women I know are really into FPS and games like Call of Duty and Borderlands. She seems, just from what I've listened to here, that she assumes FPS aren't open to or for women? I am sure if she went more in depth into that talk she would have a different opinion than what I took from it.

The Kickstarter she talked about rubbed me the wrong way because she didn't go into anything new. She basically just rehashed the same speeches about tropes and gender roles that I have been accustomed to for the past ten years and it felt less creative than it deserved.

At least there's a wider range of topics that Patrick has interviews about. So when this discussion of "sexism", "inclusiveness" and "problematic" things comes about, I don't get that disappointed.

It's clearly something Patrick cares a lot about, as misjudged as it seems to me and many others.

There's still bound to be a Bioforge, an Earthbound or other interesting interview around the corner.

This clearly isn't for me. I said it around the time Gone Home came out and I read the articles from women who wrote that it was the first time they identified with characters in a video game. On one hand I'm happy for them. It's great that they've found a game that really speaks to them. But it feels so otherworldly to a guy who's had no problem identifying with a scared italian plumber or a japanese high school kid or a red-skinned Turkish oil wrestler, that the only character these lesbian or bisexual women have been able to identify with is a character that's so much like themselves.

Don't have much interest in these small indie "experience" sort of games either, who replace old gameplay mechanics with no gameplay mechanics and expect the story and new perspective to carry the weight. I certainly don't feel like these kind of games existing will take away my "toys", thanks for that one, but I'm not sure what exactly I can contribute to the conversation other than "It's not my thing, and that's okay, sorry for bothering you while you're having a good time".

Well, the part where she explained her role on Soul Suspect was really interesting to me. That's a way this sort of conversation will impact games that I like, in a good way. More variation and less of the stuff you'd expect can only improve my experience. Lots of game I like suffer from stereotyping and boring choices like what she described.

I also checked Airtight Games' wikipedia page, and apparently they're eventually making Soul Fjord. With a name like that I can't wait, personally.

I don't think enough credit is given to anita sarkeesian to say that her critics created her and gave her a voice. in an industry ingrained with a dominate and largely straight white male perspective, she is one of the few people not speaking to that audience.

That tape animation never gets old. Love it.

@redhotchilimist: i don't think it's only the characters people in the LBGT community respond to in games like gone home, but the perspective as well. keep in mind that of the games you mentioned (mario, jrpgs, and street fighter iv), and most games for that matter, are all designed for young straight males. it's refreshing to have games come along that offer a different perspective and in my opinion are very important for games as a whole. diversity brings strength, and as Migill mentioned, opens up new markets as well.

finally, someone talks about video games and gender

@phouchg: Thanks for confirming the no spoilers thing. I'm always wary when I see TLoU images.

Yeah. I don't see eye-to-eye with him on most of these issues, but you can't deny he brings a lot to Giant Bomb. Big up scoops all in all.

The irony of you guys coming here to complain about media that is about other people "complaining" about media is deep, abiding and hilarious.

Why do other people wanting to tell/hear different stories make you so upset? What do you lose in the whole proposition?

@patrickklepek,

Thank you for providing so much good content for the site. It'd be a ghost town around here without you. Your hard work is greatly appreciated!

I struggle with the concept of a story automatically being more interesting because it involves a gay/transsexual character, though I'm totally fine with games taking all sorts of different perspectives or tackling hard issues. Stating that a story can't be terribly interesting if it is told from this so-called "white straight male perspective" really bothers me.

Although, as far as Gone Home is concerned, I fear a lot of the praise it received was just because so much of the games press is progressive and slanted and just wants to praise anything automatically because it involves a gay/lesbian character. Again, I don't mind a game exploring that concept, but it honestly made me roll my eyes because Sam was a stupid naive teenager and was throwing away her future because of a relationship with a troubled, wild girl. Whether her lover was a boy or a girl doesn't matter so much just because she was so freaking young and stupid. Didn't appreciate the heavy-handedness of the story at all, nor how crummy the game ran on literally anything but the most modern and up-to-date computers. One thing I did appreciate was how Katie seemed grossed out by Sam's promiscuity at least. Katie seemed like the one normal and decent person in a severely messed-up family.

Thanks for articles like this Scoops, I know a lot of people on this site would like it if you didn't report on these issues but I am 100% behind you!

Finally, someone makes a pithy, sarcastic comment dismissing the issue and any discussion of it.

Glad to see the status quo is being represented in full!

@kgdowley:

Sure, that's a good argument. I don't think Nintendo of all entities aim only for the straight young male, they are a family orientated company and made a new audience for themselves with the Wii. Everyones loves their games until the formulas tire them out. But mostly, yeah, it's a lot of games aimed at and marketed for straight, young males, certainly in the fighting and jrpg genres. There are still very successful games that aren't aimed at that demographic, but they aren't that many and I get why a LGBT person could get something special out of Go Home. Even if I think that that being the only character/perspective ever they identified with is bizarre, people are more than their sexual orientation and coming of age. But it's just two sentences I've gotten hung up on because I felt every character I liked were done a disservice, that's on me, and it's the last time I'm going to bring it up. Related to the larger issues, it is not.

I agree that getting different people involved in this industry can only make it more exciting. Maybe I'll eventually love one of those "experience" type games or get a new type of game I really like thanks to new and fresh perspectives.

And yes, thanks Patrick. You've put up a ton of good stuff these last months.

had to stop listening after she said, "check your assumptions", can someone verify if they discuss heteronormativity or cisgendered or any other 21st century marxist concepts?

@erhard: So, here is a suggestion you may find revolutionary. If you are not interested in the subject, just don't listen to it, don't comment on it, don't act like it interests you. Just go back to whatever you use to kill time... If you are more selective about what you visit, people won't force the issue on you.

@mormonwarrior: "Stating that a story can't be terribly interesting if it is told from this so-called "white straight male perspective" really bothers me"

it's more accurate and helpful to change the above statement to: a story can still be interesting if not told from the straight white male perspective.

no one is saying that stories are currently boring or games are bad told from one perspective or another. no one is trying to take anything away from what's out there.

Man I wish I heard that panel. I don't think that was one of the ones they had on twitch.

Good interview. Her position seems perfectly reasonable to me.

@patrickklepek Interesting interview, its nice to hear a discussion around gender in games that doesn't descend into an angry shouting match.
Do you think games are limited in narrative possibilities due to mechanics or can you see a game that mixes say Ingmar Bergman with call of duty?

@kgdowley: And that's a totally valid statement, but that's the complete opposite of what she said in this interview. She said quite plainly that stories told from a "typical" perspective are boring and predictable, which I think is frankly untrue.

@baillie: It does not.

This is what I wish Anita Sarkeesian's series was like. Good interview Patrick and Anna!

Very interesting. Patrick, I think it's a great point: having the same perspectives mean we get the same games, and having the same games over and over can be boring. There's nothing wrong with liking games that are written by middle-class, white, American men. But if you like story-driven games, getting some new stories in those games can't hurt anyone. It's not like military shooters are going away.

@patrickklepek Hell yeah to content!

Ah, but they are. Not to derail a thread that should be about this interview, but many people have been saying that they can't bear to play games that come from this "male" perspective any more. In this tragic article, the author (obviously a passionate fan of the GTA series) outright refuses to play the new one because it doesn't have a playable woman in it. And most of the folks in the comments agree.

When we try to make a game for any narrow demographic (young straight white males, fat trans aborigines, whatever) we're only segregating games further.

So much of this talk about inclusiveness just turns into NOT wanting to include a specific developer's ideas, if it's not what that person thinks is socially appropriate.

I want more stories, I want more perspectives, and I want more games that allow for multiple perspectives to be generated by how people play them. So of course, I want more interviews like this too. Thanks Patrick.

As a side note - I think we need MORE engagement. While I understand why some people don't want to go to shows like PAX, I just do not see as much good coming from avoiding PAX as I THINK I would see by coming to PAX.

Two things that I appreciate getting a mention in this interview: "Games are getting better" and that going forward is not a "zero-sum" situation. I'm completely on board with there being a wider variety of potential experiences in games and games that appeal to a facet of gamers who don't have themselves as represented in them.

However I will admit that it can get frustrating when you're exposed to games criticism that looks at games through a lens that does treat it as a zero-sum situation, where if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

Anyways, looking forward to more of these types of interviews and more interesting games showing up on the site.

The thumbnail lead me to believe this was a Last of Us spoilercast(would be a short one though since i think only Patrick and Vinny have finished it).

The population perception she describes is interesting, but I suspect that a similar effect with any split or distribution would happen. I suspect it's not just a male/female split but a general measurement of our poor ability to mentally observe and quantify.