00:00:00

Giant Bomb Presents

Giant Bomb Presents: Final Fantasy VII Remake Spoilercast

Ben and Jan are joined by a couple FF7 experts to break down all things Final Fantasy VII Remake. What was the reason the FF team finally started working on the remake? What could Remake 2 look like? Why is Tifa best girl? All this and more will be answered.

Giant Bomb Presents is giantbomb.com's home for interviews, previews, and more.

Apr. 16 2020

Cast: Ben, Jan

Posted by: Jan

In This Episode:

Final Fantasy VII Remake

57 Comments

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mattgriffin

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I think that tape animation is running backwards?

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airbagged

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The commentators from Chapter 9 were hilarious.

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silversaint

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Edited By silversaint

I feel like this was 4 Kingdom Hearts lovers who gush about how Kingdom Hearts FF7 Remake is and how much they loved the game. A dissenting opinion or at least someone who doesn't love Kingdom Hearts would of been a nice juxtaposition.

As a non-Kingdom Hearts fan I found the Dementors inclusion horrible. If this was maybe called FF7 - Restructured or something that wasn't Remake I would of been more open knowing, OK, this is a brand new story, but the marketing and title were horrendous for this game.

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frankiebeanz

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no video?

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Xeiphyer

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There was a part of me that got worried I was going to see Sora, Donald, and Goofy in Chapter 18 and find out that Final Fantasy characters not being in Kingdom Hearts 3 was for a reason, and that this game was in the same universe. Thank god that didn't happen, but it sure felt like it could have.

Overall I was really happy, and I think the ending creates some interesting ideas about the future games. Honestly though I would have been fine if it stuck to the original script like 95% of this game does, because it was honestly really fantastic the whole way through.

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TechnoSyndrome

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Edited By TechnoSyndrome

@silversaint said:

I feel like this was 4 Kingdom Hearts lovers who gush about how Kingdom Hearts FF7 Remake is and how much they loved the game. A dissenting opinion or at least someone who doesn't love Kingdom Hearts would of been a nice juxtaposition.

As a non-Kingdom Hearts fan I found the Dementors inclusion horrible. If this was maybe called FF7 - Restructured or something that wasn't Remake I would of been more open knowing, OK, this is a brand new story, but the marketing and title were horrendous for this game.

Yeah, no offense but I am super not interested in hearing a bunch of people go "Oh man it's so crazy what are the lore implications???". Everything about the ending to Remake has nothing to do with the themes of the original game or even anything leading up to it in the remake, and is the exact opposite of what I enjoy about the original game.

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Dan_CiTi

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I feel like this was 4 Kingdom Hearts lovers who gush about how Kingdom Hearts FF7 Remake is and how much they loved the game. A dissenting opinion or at least someone who doesn't love Kingdom Hearts would of been a nice juxtaposition.

As a non-Kingdom Hearts fan I found the Dementors inclusion horrible. If this was maybe called FF7 - Restructured or something that wasn't Remake I would of been more open knowing, OK, this is a brand new story, but the marketing and title were horrendous for this game.

I don't get this vibe that it should have had an even worse name than "Final Fantasy VII Remake" which already clunky, unsightly and overlong. This was always a sort of "adaptation" of FF7 from the jump, at least they got across to me...years ago? The fact they were taking an act of one game and making into a 40+ hour standalone product, a brand new combat system, and rewriting a lot of it, and so on.
That being said my existing like for the original game is pretty mild, it was a good game ( I didn't play it until the PS3 generation, after getting through Crisis Core) but I couldn't tell you anything I was for sure was totally different outside of the end where they see Zack surviving his RDR1-esque fate. Which is obviously a huge departure and the ending overall puts the whisper dementor fellas into this strange meta position, they kind of never needed to be there, outside of being this meta-commentary by Square. I was kind of ready for them to be explained and then when they were it still felt like "WTF is going on here?" But again, not in an upset way more in a "hmm I'm excited for the sequel, some weird shit is afoot."

also it is well documented Ben hates Kingdom Hearts.

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DinosaurCanada

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Edited By DinosaurCanada

I didnt actually play the game, but just dont expect any of this to end in a satisfying way. It’ll be a wacky ass Nomura ride, but, yeah.

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke

On one hand, I do truly feel bad for the folks who expected this to be a REMAKE, since this game has been pushed as a REMAKE in the traditional videogame sense only to have the revelations of the ending hit those players. as for a lot of folks, this story was their introduction to layered stories in videogames, and this game does such a damn fantastic job with the story and characters.

On the other hand, as someone who didn't have high nostalgia for this game, and the idea that this is not really a remake in the traditional sense anymore, and it's more of a "Reimagining" or "Remix" or like a sort of sequel with this cast and world, I think that's fucking awesome and exciting.

So I guess I'm of the camp of being cautiously optimistic, now It's just up to Nomura and that team to really deliver on this "Saga" now however long they want to stretch this out.

If nothing else, we truly have our first "big tentpole event series" of next gen now,

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Mooncalf

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Can anyone else see this in the Giant Bomb Presents podcast feed? I know it's not always instant but it's 6 hours and still isn't showing.

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BladedEdge

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Remake and Remaster mean different things. People really need to lay off complaining about this games title and look up the history of the many many (MANY) movie remakes that have happen over the years with wildly different content, context, plot and endings then their originals.

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Toparaman

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Edited By Toparaman

@mooncalf: Yeah it’s not there for me either.

Edit: Up now!

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Lajiaya

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The version of the stairs is better in this game than the original because Tifa doesn't straight up casually drop the R word. I bet a lot of people forgot that.

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envane

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rebuild of final fantasy 7 , you will (not) be satisfied with the ending

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Seikenfreak

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I feel like this was 4 Kingdom Hearts lovers who gush about how Kingdom Hearts FF7 Remake is and how much they loved the game. A dissenting opinion or at least someone who doesn't love Kingdom Hearts would of been a nice juxtaposition.

Agree. I made it about 30 mins in, but after seeing your comment, I think I'm good.

I really enjoyed the game for the most part. And yet I disagree with everything they've said so far. Would've liked someone from the other end of the spectrum here to help really dig into the game.

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Osmoziz

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Edited By Osmoziz

I just finished it last night and loved the ending and all the changes they made. I'm glad they decided to make these changes and it makes me more so excited for the next parts since I can now imagine that it won't be a scene by scene retelling of the original(which I also loved).

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Shingro

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Edited By Shingro

Personally I can't imagine a world where "give me exactly the story that was already told" is preferable to "let us try some new things in this world and environment."

So put me down for extremely happy and pleased this is the direction they chose. If it was all the same, all of this interesting discussion on whether it is a good idea or not would just be empty air.

Edit: Also yeah, as for naming "Remake" does not imply "identical" in any way. Besides, asking them to telegraph the ending twists of their plot in the title is asking for a movie called "Old Yeller: Farewell to a friend" or "Citizen Kane: Thinking about my sled" It's a downright insane request.

FF7 is still there, still a story and as far as anyone can tell, still canon even in the current storyline. Why not enjoy this as some additional content?

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Kemuri07

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Here's the thing. I don't think it's as simple as "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHANGES THAN IT MEANS THAT YOU JUST WANT IT TO STAY THE SAME." Which, no I don't think that's really the case.

People are trying to add this metacontextual reading to the ending, that it's SE making REMAKE about the nature of remakes and how we gotta be willing to break free of the chains of "destiny" and accept a brand new future--except I just spent 30 hours of the game going through what is essentially a faithful recreation of the first act of the original game. Yeah, the game has plenty of filler in an attempt to extend the storyline--but that's all it is. Filler designed to turn what was essentially only the first act of a full-length RPg into its own game. It really isn't until the final act of REMAKE that the game attempts to dramatically change the storyline and even then, it just gives us a load of questions that serve solely to further bloat an already plot-filled game just to justify a sequel.

And on paper, I would be fine with that--except that I don't trust Square Enix to make good on the very questions they raise, because they're historical not good at these high concept plot lines. XIII is boring nonsense, XV was literally not even done when they pushed it out opting for DLC in order to "shape" the world, and Kingdom Hearts is infamous for its bloat and putting out sequels and spin-offs on a variety of consoles that are all still canon to the overall story. I think there are plenty of reasons to remain hesitant on how SE goes from here on out.

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deactivated-6321b685abb02

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I had to stop when everyone agreed that they liked Roche. Decent game but Roche and the whispers were dumb as fuck and it would've been soo much better without them.

Different strokes I suppose but I just can't take this discussion/echo chamber seriously.

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Kemuri07

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@someoneproud: I can't even say I dislike Roche because he matters so little to the overall plot. He's a throwaway boss, that you'd think would provide some level of input about Cloud or his time in SOLDIER. But nope. Just a single boss fight, and then a "I'll see in the sequel!!!"

It's change for the sake of change solely meant to bloat the first act of FFVII. Nothing more.

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planetfunksquad

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@kemuri07: there are multiple moments throughout the game where the story is veering off the set path of the OG and the ghosts stop that from happening. It is telegraphed from *at least* the point in sector 7 where Jessie gets injured. What are you actually talking about?

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Bageldrone

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FFS 90% of the "new stuff" theyre talking about was in the original. wish there was someone on the crew that actually knew anything about ff7

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Kemuri07

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@planetfunksquad: But that's kinda my point. The ghosts don't really impact the story because the story goes as planned. Especially since the gang both see and interact with the ghosts several times throughout the story--and do nothing at all about it.

I would be far more interested if REMAKE actively went about deconstructing its own narrative throughout the game to signify Sephiroth messing with destiny rather than wait till the end to drop an exposition dump. Basically, it feels like REMAKE plays it mostly safe.

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mangopup

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I'm surprised...

All 4 of them didn't realize that Jessie's glove was on the nightstand next to Biggs at the end, possibly implying she is the one who saved Biggs.

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WhiteShadow151

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I swear to GOD stop invoking Kingdom Hearts, else you bring these universes any closer together.

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garnsr

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Isn’t Cait Sith pronounced like “Cat Shee?” Do they say Sith in the game? I thought the Gamespot guy with the British accent, whose name I forget, would be more familiar with the folklore creature, but he said Sith several times, so maybe the voiced game does pronounce it that way, though the katakana in Japanese says it should be Shee.

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Shingro

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@kemuri07: The thing is, what you are saying you are interested in (a real deconstruction of the plot in relation to the railroad of destiny vs the current story characters trying to break away from it) looks like exactly what they are doing. Sure the first 15-20% of the series has not touched on that until the end, but that's the trouble of this being a plot intended to reach across multiple games (at least 2 more, maybe 3-4 yeah?). To establish that's the plot they have to spend some significant time on the railroad for both the stakes and the twist. There isn't really another way to do this game and story unless they wanted to Duke Nukum Forever it and try to make it all at once.

To your second point It is still possible they are going to lazily stick to 90% of the beats and only change a handful of points as a readjustment more than a remake, but no one can know one way or another.

I will say considering how much expanding they did on the current scenario and how much time and effort they put into the final product, I personally think there's a good chance they'll pull it off.

I mean, it really sounds like there's a good chance this will be exactly what you want and this is exactly how you figure it should have gone in this episode of it.

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grimrook

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25mins in problematic dropped ....peace no need to keep going ff7 story is fine

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Kemuri07

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@shingro: I've never bought the idea that this game needed to be multiple games, especially when REMAKE mostly consists of linear corridors. Don't get me wrong, the game is absolutely gorgeous, but I don't buy that REMAKE had to be solely Midgar because the game is just "too big." That's corporate nonsense--they did because it meant they could make more money splitting up FF7 into a "trilogy." And they found a reason to justify it: time-travel/alternate universe shenanigans. Which yeah, That's "Kingdom Hearts" bullshit right there.

And the plot twist only works if you have some prior knowledge of the original game anyways, so I'd argue that there was really no reason to make gamers play through the first act of the game if the objective was to blow the whole narrative up--they should have done it a lot sooner. Because it'd actually lend some agency and stakes because it would be actively fucking with expectations. Instead I was just frustrated because the many diversions were just filler that didn't really add anything to the overall plot. It was a superficial way to make sure the first act of VII could stretch into a 30-40 hour game.

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Shingro

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Edited By Shingro

@kemuri07: I mean, without some sort of evidence to the first point I don't see a reason to believe that. They didn't pay a team of developers and creatives for 4-5 years to twiddle their thumbs and collect wages. It's self evident from most gaming companies that the faster you can push out a game the better the profit margin is. The whole game has obvious time and attention devoted to it map design or no.

You're right they *could* have just had a real slapdash rush through the main story beats but who would have wanted that? Personally I like the fact that they linger and investigate each space and really paid attention to every part. I never saw a place and thought "Boy they sure didn't pay attention to this environment" I mean, pay attention to the lighting in every scene, with the exception of the weird guy standing besides that one jukebox (mid late game I think? you're collecting songs) the lighting is amazing the whole way through. That attention to detail isn't free in time or money and personally I'm glad they spent it.

I really see no way just dropping people into the setting and saying "Whatever, everything's different, we didn't even have to pay attention to the original" would be more compelling then the slow build + twist method. I mean, this is a series widely beloved by a tremendous amount of gamers, why would you discard that investment immediately out of hand? This way they get both increased interest and investment from those who are nostalgic while not just rehashing the old narrative, as well as new people who can play it as a new experience. I do think new people while they might not recognize things like the use of Holy materia or somesuch, would understand the midgar/mako/avalanche narrative and enjoy it.

I mean, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if you have a great pitch for what that completely different narrative might have been?

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planetfunksquad

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@kemuri07: you ever seen Rebuild of Evangelion? Those movies are the same as FF7R. The first starts off ostensibly retreading the events of the OG, while seeding little differences here and there before completely going off the rails at the end. It’s a false sense of security with some things that are a tiny bit off. In RoE it’s details like the ocean being red, a blood splatter on the moon. In FF7R it’s the ghosts, flash forwards and the fact that Aerith clearly knows more than she’s letting on.

From there they become straight up sequels as opposed to retreads. It’s a good way to get fans of the OG on board. Here’s this thing you love but new. The new narrative trickles out in small doses to ease people into it before completely shattering the old narrative. It’s essentially saying “here, look how much care we’re putting into retaining the spirit of this thing you love. Now you know you can trust us on where we want to take it”. It exists in that form to put fans minds at ease who would have otherwise completely closed off to it. It’s a slow burn for a reason.

If they’d just announced FF7 2, after literally 15 years of people begging for a remake people would have lost their shit. This way people are more receptive initially and can grow to appreciate it as a new thing organically.

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Kemuri07

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@planetfunksquad: Yeah I know what Rebuild is, and while I won't go into the whole "I trust Hideko Anno far more than I do anyone at Square Enix," Rebuild are like two hour films. That's completely different from playing a 30 hour video game Especially that first film which cuts a lot of the fat from the series and streamlines it for newcomers while also being just different enough for veterans to enjoy. That's...not really what REMAKE does, and it's a different context anyways. Considering people are relatively mixed on the final two chapters anyways, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation: So just say fuck it and make those changes apparent from the get-go, instead of wasting my time with fluff.

@shingro:Of course I have proof. It's called Advent Children, and every other FF7 side story game It's called whatever nonsense that they were trying to do with the Fabula Nova Crystallis nonsense, and turning FFXIII into a trilogy of other nonsense games. It's XV's expanding into a whole multimedia project consisting of anime and a cgi film that apparently I needed to watch in order to understand what the hell was going on + all the DLC that eventually got cut. And I don't have to talk about Kingdom Hearts do I?

My point is that this is what Square Enix does and I'd say it went a long way at degrading the franchise in many people's eyes. And when the first things they talked about was making REMAKE episodic--yeah it just seemed like business as usual. So no I don't really buy that splitting the games up into several full priced games was done for anything other than financial reasons.

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Shingro

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Edited By Shingro

@kemuri07: Alright I'm confused now, you don't think FF7R needed to be multiple games, but your proof is that Square has put out multiple episodic/sequel games in the past decade, doesn't that work against your point? You cite series like Kingdom hearts, which have been running *fifteen years* with consistent development and teams.

Do you think they should have just taken a decade and a half and just crunched on FF7R until it came out at this quality as a full game? For 60 dollars? Do you think it should have been a $300 dollar single release megagame? Should it just have been a "thanks for loving our series" free flash release worked on by a skeleton crew with no quality put into it? I still don't understand how you think this game should have come about. I'd appreciate it if you would give me a more concrete example because, to paraphrase, "business as usual amirite?" doesn't help me understand what you wanted.

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planetfunksquad

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@kemuri07: I mean if your problem is that it didn’t get into the new stuff quicker then the next game is probably gonna be for you, what with the metaphorical killing of fan expectations in this one

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faridmon

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Edited By faridmon

For a huge Self proclaimed FF7 fans, the guests had so much false information about FF7.

Zacks discussion was particularly face-palm inducing. All I am gonna say is Zack is a huge character in the FF7 lore, in fact Clouds character is there because of Zack...

None of them played Crisis Core?

To be honest, this spoiler-cast was disappointing. The podcast was so long yet they all said very little about FF7 story.

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Tomba_be

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To me it just seems that the Kingdom Hearts guy managed to convince Square to let him direct a pretty faithful retelling of the FF7 story, right up to the point where the characters actually fought against the original story... Which could be really cool, but I fear that this is also the point where the actual good, comprehensible story will stop. He is now of the leash, and can start making the story Kingdom Hearts level bullshit. And fuck that shit.

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chrispy145

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I'm impressed that the only four people in this world who liked Roche was able to assemble for one podcast.

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recaliber

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@faridmon: not really sure what you’re on about. Tamoor was 100% alluding to his knowledge of Zack in the original game and crisis core but seemed he was avoiding spoilers for the sake of Jan and Ben who haven’t played those games. Tamoor knows who Zack is. He stated that he’s the reason Cloud is who he is.

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faridmon

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@recaliber: Buddy, don't know what to tell you about being worried about spoilers when they kept spoiling what happens FF7 later in the game along with name dropping Before Crisis and Advent Children (Which lets be honest, some of the amended storyline will reference that movie).

Also, it wasn't Tamoor who mentioned Zack, it was Ben and he freaking took that information off Wiki which glanced at for 5 mins.

P.S. talking about Zack in Crisis Core isn't even a spoiler, its a whole game about who he is and how he ended up being SOLDIER and Aerths Boyfriend, and the end of the game straight leads to FF7. It also had amazing Re-arrangment of FF7 music.

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development

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@chrispy145: roche was my favorite part of the game. Was bummed there wasn’t a rematch later on

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development

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Omg these comments. Fans ruin everything.

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Robaota

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There is a certain amount of nostaligic comfort I take to having an FF7 comments section be bad. With how crazy the world is now, it's good to know there's still some things we can rely on.

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echasketchers

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Edited By echasketchers

I just finished the game last night and really liked this spoilercast. It was a nice surprise hearing Caty, she always has good input on the USGamer RPG podcast. The ending is polarizing but I thought it left things pretty open in a cool way. And the fights themselves were just tons of fun!

They made the game actually fun to play in 2020, which owns because every time I try to go back and play FF7 again I lose interest because of the battle system.

edit: some of these comments are very salty. And not gonna lie, it’s hilarious and makes me like the game even more.

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Fnert_Bjerglen

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The Sephiroth stuff at the end of this game is nonsense. There is no reason for anyone to know his motivations or that he is the big bad at that point. He showed up, stole Jenova, killed Shinra, and that's it. Suddenly we're having the end battle of OG FF7 without any of the lead up? How can you go from that confrontation to 50 more hours of fighting lesser enemies in the next game. I loved 95 percent of this game but the last 2 hours were KH nonsense. Considering that's the part that they likely changed after KH3 released, if the same people work on the subsequent releases I don't have a lot of hope for them. This article sums up my feelings pretty well:

https://medium.com/@timrattray/the-problems-and-possibilities-of-final-fantasy-vii-remakes-ending-caca2b547264