Giant Bombcast 442: Hair Products and Turkey Bacon

@evilpotato: If you could have seen the way Dave Lang makes love to the camera, you'd be a believer too.

Yeah, word up for Egg Inc.

it is lit

Waiting for Iron Galaxy's idler, Dive Click.

@harrypowers: Some of us listen to the Bombcast as a podcast while out in the world, and we can differentiate the Lang Zone­™ from Boyestown.™

Also, sometimes it's nice to not have my face stuffed with advertising, and it's one of the primary reasons I pay for a premium membership.

TL; DR? Different Strokes, yo.

CONTENT

Why are all new Bombcasts numbered now? Are they trying to make it uniform with the Giant Beastcast?

@two_socks: there are only FOUR factions or sentient alien races

You're not alone in your liking of Def Jam ICON, Jeff. =P You are not alone!

@jedted: You can't beat the Beastcast. Which means you can only join it.

Many people say Dan left for Ny because nobody likes him on the west office

@architecture: I'm totally with you. I listen way more than I watch.

It wasn't until I became a premium member that I realized the irony, for me, in continuing to listen to the standard Bombcast to be sure I got to hear Vinny's Small Business Man.

Hmm, I'm still month to month auto pay. I guess it's time to go yearly during the next sale.

Deuces.

During the later part of the No Man Sky discussion the only thing i could think is that i would love if they hired a very pro-consumer editor

@jedted: I forgot where but Jeff said It's because the RSS feed data and the iTunes library automatically spits out the date and they eventually found the reiteration of the same information annoying. When they planned out the back-end for the audio and video podcast feed, they just decided they might as well switch over to a numbered system. Also, Brad thinks of episode titles now (not sure where that idea came from).

Jeff's looking a little uncomfortable next to lady I can't remember the name of.

I only use my Xbox for one game, but I can't help but think Jeff's issues with it are partly because he's not as familiar with the console? I own both current gen consoles and they feel largely the same to me as of this past year. The guide is definitely slow after boot up to cache, but fine after that. Also, instead of pressing the guide button, going to dash, and then left on d-pad, double tap the guide button to go straight to the guide.

Yeah, for me the big problem is that they tend to make a lot of excuses and exceptions when they personally know developers, but on games where they don't personally know anybody they'll just hang it out to dry and say "it doesn't matter why it's broken, as a consumer I just want my game".

Damn this new numbering system... TO HELL. Seriously though... dates or bust.

@lanechanger: so you're saying the squares are hanging out in Squaresville? shit, i'm good here in Ballertown!

With all the games press/industry stuff I think GB still finds a good middle ground around these situations. I can't think of any hot garbage release messes that involved devs close to GB staff though.

There should be more discussion of the consumer side in a way that doesn't come off as another lecture about all the misconceptions the general consumer has about game development realities.

@engineno9: yes, but i'm more thinking that this kind of discussion is always getting so sterile. Everybody just consider the point of view of the developer and that's it. For example, hype doesn't just simply happen, there is a clear marketing direction (especially with Sony behind which i'm sure wants to control the message) and it would be interesting to have a nice back and forth of positions. Look, even now that this game is out we don't even know exactly how the multiplayer works (from the crew hypothesis of both coasts: only naming seen? Environment modifications? Instanced players? who fucking knows) but nobody dares to criticize this style of muddy communication for creating confusion in the consumers, which is weird because there would be other in the crew ready to defend it anyway. Let's just leave it there and if someone more casual get pissed off because he spends 60 bucks believing there is some form of multiplayer that isn't there let's blame him for it.

And, on a side note, it's getting tiresome to hear things like how bad they have it when they don't get even to celebrate the release: i'm guessing that celebration will happen the first time they check their bank accounts at Hello Games; this isn't an early access game hoping to get some interest from the steam community (which, given the type of game and team size it would not be exactly unheard of). It's a full retail 60 bucks game with an insane marketing push and every outlet interested in covering it; i'm guessing the small team is suddenly made of very wealthy people, plus their next game will have a lot of eyes already pointed at them from the start, being no longer the company behind a couple of small downloadble games but the company behind a sensational release (in terms of the attention it got) and with the head of the studio now fairly familiar to the gaming public. I'm guessing they are set for life, so please avoid telling me the plight of the poor developer that doesn't have a party at release.

@nonforma: There are only two instances of disastrous releases of developers close to them that i can think from the top of my head. The first is Batman, and we know about it.

The second is Spacebase DF-9, which i unfortunately purchased in early access (and taught me to not do that anymore). From the west coast, even with Brad being a fan of DF and following their releases very closely we got nothing (which surprised and disappointed me). Luckily Alex (he got so much respect from me for that) in a Bombin AM at the time talked a little about the situation in a very straighforward way. Which puzzles me even more; it's not like suddenly people at DF hated GB, you can have a public discussion and criticize moves from developers you know, so why there is no more of that? Only some timid things from Jeff sometimes...

@nonforma: didn't Iron Galaxy handle the terrible PC port of Arkham Knight? GB railed on that one pretty hard despite it actually working fine for most of the staff.

I love me some Langzone, I'm looking forward to listening to this on my commute!

@protome: That is correct.

@cagliostro88: wow, sounds like you have a few axes to grind. curious: have you bought and been disappointed by the game yourself?

i think some people out there are forming this huge plan of hello games to milk the rubes of their hard earned cash in their heads that i just don't think is actually there...

I think he makes a decent point. I've seen Jeff swing from "I understand the hardships of game development" to "the consumer shouldn't care about development hardships" and I'm not sure what prompts one or the other. The man has a ton of experience under his belt so he definitely knows what he's talking about but they do throw some games under the bus while others had a sympathetic nod which is something I never understood and usually attributed to a) personal preference b) knowledge about the game I'm not privy to as just an online user.

@ripelivejam: yeah i bought it (on gog so friday release). I've not cancelled the preorder, i'm gonna play it. I don't have a problem with the game itself, i've seen a few streams and i guess i'll play for a few hours hoping that it will get a hook in me and really enjoy my time. I weighted what i knew and made the decision informed as best i could. So i'm consciously making a decision to give them my money, that is not the issue.

I have a lot of problems with the marketing campaign, the communications from the studio and the impossibility to have a normal discussion about it, which i'm sure you will concede. Since at GB that discussion could be easily had, they are smart people who are clearly very aware of the problems faced by developers and publishers, it's kinda depressing that they don't have anyone on the staff proposing certain arguments (even only as devil advocate if it's so impossible) that can produce an interesting and informative discussion instead of whatever we are getting

@cagliostro88: My issue is that whenever we talk about modern games having these patches that are huge and radically impact your gaming experience no one brings up the fact that at the launch of the XB1 consumers and media alike ripped that whole always online idea apart, but when you look at the modern gaming space if you're not always hooked up to the internet you'll run into some pretty big issues playing a lot of AAA releases. It's like built in DRM. Imagine someone doesn't have an online connection or has very stringent data caps and they put in NMS - what kind of experience will they get compared to someone that downloaded the patch? Is that fair? Is that O-K? Should we just say "well game development is hard" or what I've heard said before "well we should be happy they keep working on it even after it went gold." But is that continued workflow at the cost of people that won't be able to make use of it because of their particular circumstances.

I too would like them to explore these issues from the side of the consumer rather than the developer. Yah it's a small team, yah they had to work their asses off, but hey so did a lot of other people in order to earn the money to buy their game. Oftentimes I feel like the paying customer is the least important part of the equation at the very bottom of the totem pole. It really very often feels like we should all be happy we even get these games and shut up and just hand over our money.

@cky4890: I remember jotting down how 3 weeks ago Jeff said "fuck" and I'm pretty sure he was talking about Dan!!

The best morning drink is a Bloody Mary, Dave Lang, and you know it.

Good times! I can't get enough Lang in my ears. I also appreciate that he brought an entourage of fun people.

The lighting is a bit harsh.

Drink

"They're still a small team. They're stretched so thin"

Then don't charge $60. The "we're just a small indie team! Don't compare us to triple AAA games!" falls on it's face when you're charging triple AAA price.

Great episode!

Stomp 442

What do you mean? They had Lang on the podcast and asked him about it, and he said that he couldn't go into it because of business reasons (and probably contractural reasons). They can't do anything more than that.

Other than that they talked about it for weeks and the PC port of Arkham Knight "won" Hottest Mess in their GOTY last year.

The difference is that No Man's Sky wasn't broken on release.

THE BOMB!

I don't get how people who know how Pokemon Go is played think that people who are out playing it have their heads perpetually glued to their screens. When I use it while out an about, I have it by my side and am looking where I walk and looking around at where I am. I only look down at the screen when the sound and vibration indicates that a Pokestop is available or a Pokemon appears, and those resolve quickly. There is little to no reason to constantly have your attention on it. Also, the people who are at these vistas and locations are there because of the game, so it's not like they'd be at these locations on their own. I've seen far more of my city thanks to Pokemon Go motivating me to move around and explore instead of just going to the Gym and running in place.

@tunacat: They're stretched thin BECAUSE they're making a game that has $60 worth of effort put into it.

Thank you for selecting the appropriate thumbnail for this video.

Really? Are you going to tell that to the people that bought the disc and don't get the day 1 update?

Or the people who bought it on the promise that even though rare, you could still find and see other people?

Or saying that it's out of their hands with all the things people "think" the game was going to be. That's pure bullshit, it was all 100% driven by marketing and vague developer statements specifically to give those ideas.

The fact that GB normally doesn't even look at Survival games at all, despite the massive audience. And they constantly say how they "don't get it" and think it's a waste of time. For the few that they do try they barely spend enough time to figure out the most basic of controls to look like idiots on a Premium-only stream. Yet here for a game that they have had the developers show them multiple times over the years they have on release night 2 multi-hour streams of the staff playing them and an hour of the Bombcast dedicated to it.

And you can't say it's only because it is a big release, because MILLIONS of people are playing ARK right now. And Rust. And Subnautica. And Dead by Daylight. And Minecraft. And H1Z1. And all of the others survival games that have the many of the mechanics in addition to way more depth and variety even in Early Access.

For as long as I can remember I always pictured Drew standing up during the podcast. No idea why.

I'm not sure how this essay applies, but good on you for having such a strong opinion on this.

@rvone: If you read the first three paragraphs you would see I directly addressed your question there.

No Man's Sky is broken on release for multiplayer. It is broken on release for anyone not connected to the internet because this is not an online-required game. It is broken for those that are buying it based on the misleading marketing.

that's the issue i take with anything pro-consumer. it eventually ends up becoming a witch hunt with loads of supposed oppressed gamers crying out for developer blood. it gets blown way out of proportion and loses the plot entirely. it's just a needle swing hard in the opposite direction that doesn't help anyone.

sure there are other big survival games, but this one is ostensibly aimed at the masses. it would be foolish to think GB wouldn't cover it (e: i wouldn't consider jeff's stream official coverage of the game despite being on GB's youtube channel as it wasn't posted on the site). survival games in general are estoteric and niche, even the biggest ones. they are huge time sinks, as an outsider it seems like for fans of these games they're basically the only game they play for months on end.

i also feel a lot of people are listening to a different bombcast than i am. they repeatedly, particularly jeff, bring up their caveats about the game, its longevity, and how it sucks for the relative few who aren't online and can't get the full experience.

this isn't a black and white situation in any way.