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Giant Bombcast 502: Bad Wood

We’ve come through the smoke and flame to talk about Shadow of War (and its loot boxes), the truth about Mugman, Street Fighter V’s Arcade Edition, many much Gundam Versus, shower spiders, Erik Estrada, and disturbing genetic facts.

The Giant Bombcast is the world's most beloved video game podcast, and now it's available in video form.

Oct. 10 2017

Cast: Jeff, Brad, Ben, Jason

Posted by: Jason

In This Episode:

Middle-earth: Shadow of War

iTunes Spotify

127 Comments

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guip1408

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Lez go!!

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fatwonton

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Sweet. Just before gym.

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isawachuck

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Edited By isawachuck

WOO!

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LittleWask

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Did they do an aftershow today? I didn't see one.

Thanks duders, looking forward to listening on the drive home tonight!

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Could_Be_King

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Woooo, let's do this!

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zheelz

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Edited By zheelz

Condolences to Jeff, Ben, Brad and everyone out west. As someone who just went through a hurricane a month ago in South Florida after not having to go through one in over 10 years, having supplies in the event of power outage is a way of life. Good things to have for an emergency are things like battery-powered radios, batteries (of every type), non-perishable goods, a NOAA weather radio (for hurricanes and weather related emergencies), a battery-powered fan, a cooler, and a ton of water, among other things. It's always good to check on your supplies once or twice a year to make sure they still work! I neglected to do that this year and it bit me in the ass by finding out the day before it going to hit that my battery-operated portable TV/radio didn't work because of connection issues due to corrosion. It was a real bummer. Thankfully, I had a couple of tiny AM/FM radios from like 2005 that took double-A batteries and worked without any issue.

I know it's easy to think our phones and computers can do everything but I could not get a connection on my smartphone for two or three days after the hurricane. I had to rely on an AM/FM radio for my information for about 2 or 3 days.

It never hurts to buy a battery-operated radio and a bunch of batteries just in case!

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moderateTrouble

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Edited By moderateTrouble

haven't listened to the podcast yet, but when this posted my boyfriend sent me the thumbnail picture and asked me what it was (im premed/biochemist).

i told him it was a protein, tho i didn't know what kind it was off the top of my head. so i reverse-google searched it and literally said out loud "GOD, i should have freaking known."

i can't wait to see what that-special-gene has to do with this weeks bombcast. i love whenever they talk about science-y stuff, haha!

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Cagliostro88

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Edited By Cagliostro88

God i'm so tired of the way the discussion unfolds every single time we have a spreading of shitty practices in the gaming industry. Always the same, never a strong pro-consumer voice (even with the new hires :( ) which could take it in interesting places. It's just: "poor innocent developer saints, businnesmen greedy devils at fault!; developing costs are always going up (but never mention cost-cuts or increased revenues like with the switch to the digital market), consumer should just pay more straight away. Also these practices somehow only hit fantasy investement bankers and not their main demographics?"

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ildon

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@benpack Overwatch event items are not limited edition. So far, every event item has come back next year. All the events are yearly. Even the "Olympics" event comes back every summer (not every 4th summer). And by the second event they released (maybe the third? I can't remember for sure), they had allowed people to buy event skins with in-game gold instead of making them loot-box-exclusive, with them only being available for purchase while the event is active.

I realize some people still aren't happy with that situation, but how you described it on the podcast felt misleading. So far, the only things in the game that have been "one time only" (that I know of) are the ladder ranking icons.

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Humanity

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@cagliostro88: Don't forget about the good ol' "well if you take inflation under account games are cheaper than ever!"

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TanookiSuit

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It's Tuuueesssddayyyyy

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delrueofdetroit

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Edited By delrueofdetroit

Is Jeff getting all of his clothes out of loot crates now or something?

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Dixavd

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My sleeping pattern was messed up but I tried staying awake just to watch this... I ended up falling asleep for the exact 3 hours that this was live. Oh well.

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indigozeal

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I really liked the Naked Egg Taco when I had it.

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hassun

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Eagerly awaiting the SFV AE talk. I feel like it could be a real shot in the arm.

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Monkeyman04

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Edited By Monkeyman04

I know what the guys are going through with the smoke stuff. A month ago there was a huge fire on the Columbia Gorge that was started by some dumb ass with a firework. Here in Vancouver, WA, USA it was pretty fucking smokey and ash falling everywhere.

This what the sun looked like in the middle of the day.
This what the sun looked like in the middle of the day.

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Humanity

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Ben should buy some more shirts. I mean thats just good life advice overall.

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isawachuck

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Edited By isawachuck

WOO!

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instak3ller

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Good lord, Jeff, that is a LOOK.

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MadBootsy

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Edited By MadBootsy

Jeff always gets hung up on weird stuff... listen to Reggie: Play The Game!

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Blitzrules240

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Why does Jeff look like he's going to an underground rap battle?

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TheRealTurk

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So it's Middle-Earth: Gaiden?

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giandeli

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Is Jeff wearing Bape?

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larmer

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Edited By larmer

Their continued acceptance of casino gambling mechanics involved with lootboxes is really depressing. They just give that stuff a free pass all the time, only ever criticizing it sometimes if it dramatically effects gameplay.

I don't mind these games, even if they are full $60 products, giving fans a way to support their favourite games and getting a little bonus content. But the slot machine way they do it is A) Designed to foster and take advantage of very unhealthy psychological issues, and B) makes that bonus content cost way more than it should be worth.

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LonelySpacePanda

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When I was going through Hurricane Harvey here in H-town earlier this year, the city SubReddit and following local journalists on Twitter was a godsend. I had my own shocking experience of authority figures giving false information. Nobody is infallible but I literally had to deal with a cop telling everyone in my area that everyone was going to die for certain because a dam was going to break. Which turned out to be false, but that didn't stop utter panic from happening. When shit hits the fan, you'd be surprised by the levels of incompetence in local law enforcement. I don't blame them. They are doing their best but some are not trained for these sorts of things.

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scylo

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@brad Y'all really need to recognise that cosmetic loot boxes can be exploiting people too. The Dota 2 crate opening animation stuff I've seen seems specifically designed to create the "Oh I was so close to getting that!" feeling of slot machines. Slot machines themselves are completely optional too you know, that doesn't prevent people from getting addicted and completely financially ruining themselves.

If games want to have loot boxes, fine, but they shouldn't present the opening of these things in a way that feels like a slot machine. Tbh, the Shadow of War opening almost seems the best I've seen, because it's clear that it's just a transaction.

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Lanechanger

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Damn this wildfire sounds disastrous. First in BC Canada and now in cali. Hope you guys come out of it unscathed!

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stinger061

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Edited By stinger061

'Let's just make a fun video game' is a phrase that I feel is too often missing from the industry these days. I think thats part of what made Shadow of Mordor so appealing, it was happy to put all it's systems on display without feeling to need to provide deep in-world explanations for all of them and it's good to hear Shadow of War continues that.

I did get bummed out when the conversation then turned to the potential to read deep into the ethics of enslaving a group of beings to do your bidding. When I play a game I'm happy to just enjoy it for what it is as an escape from the real world without having to wonder about what it says about society or the world around it.

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Cammy

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@scylo: Yeah, the fact that they continually give those games a pass is a little disappointing. The costume aspects don't destroy the game in anyway, but the addictive nature is still very much built into the animations to deliver a euphoric feeling of winning, much like slot machines. And the fact that Dota 2 shows the items that you could have won (often leaving them until the very end, and more often then not being given the lesser item) is the same as seeing two "lucky sevens" and then a random third at a slot machine. So close, yet so far away.

I don't have a problem with people loving a game and then wanting to put more money into the game (I've thrown money at Dota 2 for The International compendiums each year), I just wish the guys would read into some of the addictive/gambling aspects a lot of loot boxes in games are being built around.

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SethMode

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I think it's hard for people that aren't addicted to something to fully grasp the resonance of how addictive something can be. That has always been my take away from them kind of brushing off the cosmetic stuff.

I am not trying to be a jerk here but: what do you want them to do? I don't think that remarking that spending money is just cosmetic is really here or there. I do still agree with them fundamentally that it matters how it impacts gameplay.

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AntiHero

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What is Jeff's hat? Its been driving me crazy (not really) since PAX.

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amythehotter

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Edited By amythehotter

I find it strange how much the team especially jeff loved shadows of mordor enough to give it Goty but when the sequel comes out that jumps in stuff you can do and makes progression move even after the games over they come off bummed (atleast in the quicklook). unlike most sequels they turn their nose at for just being just another one of those games or another ____, shadows of war improves everything in the game more than two fold and adds new mechanics and dives into tons of optional stuff.

I mean just look at the first intorduction to the game and their excitement then look at it now. Reminds me how the group loved Mass efect 2/3 but years later seemed to speak of it as if it was not great all along. Maybe its the ageing of stuff idk. I wonder if the cast will think player unknown bg is bad in a couple of years or hitman/doom/etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqjxfIE4XLk

I guess they are just bummed by the complexity but i cant see the shadows of mordor game coming out in 2017 without amping up the stuff they did and people still liking it. Its like how destiny 2 seems like destiny 1 but cleaner yet many think its just dlc for destiny 1 sold as destiny 2.

the only few issues i see as huge complaints from critics are graphics being outdated. i believe its a old engine but i cant see them using bloodbore graphics for example with so much on screen and calculations for randomized orc stats and outfits plus factoring in non simplified terrain for massive orc fights. Sometimes id take last gen graphics with great gameplay. hell Give me playstation graphics with 30,000 sprites on screen at 60fps.

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amythehotter

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@sethmode: My take on the micros: I grew up where i spent years on one game trying to unlock all the items in power stone 2 so me and my buddies could fight with all the items. No loot boxes but just mixing items you got to get rare weapons where most of the time i wasnt guarantied a Legendary gun or sword cause i spent 1 dollar or spent in game earned 1 dollar. Rare items were grindy like hell if you earned it the normal way. I dont see a big leap in game devs pushing you to play forever to beat their games. For the most part according to achievements most people dont even get half way through a game yet alone the endgame that everyone is so worried about in shadows of mordor. Overall it was just as rewarding as it is to play games now even with micros when you play and earn a loot reward. my little child mind didnt think i was gambling and i dont consider that i was back then. As long as the kidos arent spending money and earn it in game whats the harm. The "grind" you kids call it these days is just what i called long games cause you needed that other thing you kids call "padding" to last you till your next game in 3 months. I think this loot box or sped up progression along with anger and whatever nonsense just stems from so many good games coming out and the people who want to play them all. Honestly even grindy end games arent that bad. Play the game every once in a while eventually youll beat it no micro legendary +1 damage sword purchase necessary. That being said most players say the grind is not even there even if you skip purchasing loot with real money for shadows of war.

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amythehotter

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@cagliostro88: if your gonna be against micros i respect and admire those who say they dont like them period. No sway for those who say they dont have time cause work and need to skip to the fun with a small 10 buck purchase or those who say the grind just isnt worth their time etc. Hell chief respect for those who go against the grain and say even cosmetics are annoying for micros/loot boxes. Cause in all honesty 20 years ago you unlocking all the outfits in your little fighter was a chore but it was doable in a reasonable time frame. Games like overwatch make it so those outfits will keep coming and youll never have your complete set in a reasonable time. I guess it just comes down to preference and im in the camp those willing to put up the cash or time to unlock stuff deserve it. Were not entitled to getting everything in a videogame unlike how we experience other media (books, movies, tv) games are test/challenges where your not guarrented to make it past the first level yet alone end until you prove you can or fork up what the developer thinks is enough to merit you deserved it. Sounds Sh1tty and it is but thats how it is. I see a trend in games just going free to play now thou so it could be cool to get tons of single player games for free to try out with constant ads/lootboxes/begs for donations. I and according to achievements know most people dont even get past the first few levels of a game or about 4-6 hours so i wouldnt even feel the grind before i moved to the next free game. Call me a sucker lol. But i love the opinions in the comments on why micros are bad. Helped me get a good perspective on things.

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ripelivejam

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@amythehotter: You sound like quite the judgemental person. Have your own opinion, but live and let live.

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ripelivejam

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@stinger061: Totally agree, SOW is a ridiculous and fun sandbox so far. I can divorce myself from the source material I admittedly love to have a great dumb time hunting some orc.

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Edited By jedikv

@sethmode: @cammy: @scylo: @larmer:

It's why I've always praised the way titanfall 2 does their post-release monetization.

  • All paid items are cosmetic only (tho actually that changed with a couple of xp doubler skins recently :( )
  • No gambling-style lootboxes. It's a regular storefront where every item has a price and you pick and choose what you want to buy

To me, if you're having to hide content behind a blind box, that's telling that you (the game maker/publisher etc) do not believe in the inherit value of the content created that you have to rely on onerous psychological manipulation to get people addicted and open up their wallet. The fact that Blizzard actively circumvents showing drop rates in China shows they know the power of what they're doing

I guess also The Witcher 3 is a good example for single player games. Some smaller, free content and some paid larger expansions

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Edited By sammo21

I am fine with loot boxes, or microtransactions, in a single player game as long as I don't feel cheated in the normal game play when I don't get them AND they don't constantly advertise to me about them.

I was going to get Shadow of War but with Battle Chaser:Nightware, Cuphead, and still playing PUBG I am too busy. I don't want to lose sight of beating Battle Chasers so I'll get Shadow of War in a month or so (probably cheaper).

Anytime I hear a fighting game talked about that's not Virtua Fighter I get quickly disinterested.

Also, is Jeff a character in Watch.Dogs now?

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moderateTrouble

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@zoofame said:

@moderatetrouble: Gotta go fast... and establish a concentration gradient.

HA!! gotta go fast.. to ensure proper morphogenesis during embryogenesis! thanks, sonic.

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jedikv

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The inflation argument is especially silly since it ironically doesn't take into account that wage growth has not kept up with inflation (granted inflation has been low in recent years) so the whole $60 is theoretically cheaper excuse falls apart. (And that's before we get into costs outside of the US).

@humanity said:

@cagliostro88: Don't forget about the good ol' "well if you take inflation under account games are cheaper than ever!"

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DodoBasse

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@amythehotter: I don't think anyone hid the fact, that in a stronger year, SoM would not have gotten GotY. 2014 was WEAK for most people.

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rocketraccooncmro

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Games don't really still cost 60 dollars anymore, you get a large part of a game for that price but not the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSso2vufPM&t Jim Sterling

Game companies are making more and spending less on games then they ever have, also they're evading taxes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFKnv1YzI3k&t Super Bunnyhop

I also don't think the developers are getting much money from micro-transactions given how they're paid salaries and don't get a share in the profits that money seems to me to be going to investors who are already millionaires and don't give a shit about games. If this is true micro-transactions are a bad way to support devs.

Fuck lootboxes, they exist to trick people into spending money on things they don't want.

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Dussck

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Okay, I was OUT when they started talking about cheese. God do I hate that stuff. It's by far the worst piece of food on this planet and I think I rather eat a piece of human shit than a piece of cheese.

There I said it.

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BrainScratch

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Edited By BrainScratch

I know what the guys are going through with the smoke stuff. A month ago there was a huge fire on the Columbia Gorge that was started by some dumb ass with a firework. Here in Vancouver, WA, USA it was pretty fucking smokey and ash falling everywhere.

This what the sun looked like in the middle of the day.
This what the sun looked like in the middle of the day.

That's how most days looked like here in Portugal since July, we've been having fires roaring for most of the summer and hasn't stopped yet. Half of Europe's burned area this year was just in our tiny country. 156 fires erupted during one single day in various spots, it was hard to breathe outside even miles away.

Thankfully it's getting better now, and I really hope the ones they mentioned are getting better as well. Good luck to everyone out there in California!

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BrainScratch

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@dussck said:

Okay, I was OUT when they started talking about cheese. God do I hate that stuff. It's by far the worst piece of food on this planet and I think I rather eat a piece of human shit than a piece of cheese.

There I said it.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that I would prefer to eat feces than cheese, but yeah, cheese is awful. Unless it's in pizza. I'm fine with cheese in pizza.