Giant Bombcast 529: POLICE USE NUNCHAKU

I too really dislike the camera in God of War. And clearly the devs realized how annoying it can be, given all the systems they put in place to try and mitigate the problem. I would much rather have a better view of the enemies, instead of flashing arrows on my screen. I can't even remember the last time I had to use quick turn in a game prior to this.

Love this show !

@eazeapeazea: i disagree with you

people can disagree with each other

thats what people do

If you agreed with the chat's backlash against the crew, then you wouldn't be saying this.

If you didn't agree with the chat's backlash, then you are using altruism as a strawman.

If you agreed, but pity the minority opinion, then you are patronizing it.

The GB crew are big boys and can handle a disagreeing opinion. We have all been the dissenting opinion, it doesn't feel good. My suggestion is to either fight for your opinion or leave the conversation, but not mask your opinion in altruism.

@bunguskhan: People can disagree, sure. But I just don't get the outright anger and vitriol some had for the crew in the chat. Opinions from others shouldn't cause you to foam at the mouth.

@sixtycakes: same

@eazeapeazea: Fair enough. Personally, I found the chat held it's tongue better than usual, prob because it was the GB crew's opinion instead of some rando. But the internet is a poor platform for communication that necessitates this type of behavior. I'm certain if anyone in chat was sitting at the podcast table, their words wouldn't be so vitriolic. (me included)

But thats the internet, and I believe we should see its faults rather than fault ourselves first. I could go on but thats a bit deep for the comments section.

I don't agree with the criticism of the combat in God of War. I want to be knocked out of an attack if I'm not positioned correctly. I want to have to think about the timing of my attacks. Knock-back, axe-throw, runic, execute, etc I love the frantic mix. The combat feels like a breath of fresh air after playing clunky MHW for a few months.

I have personally cashed in at least $40 worth of Amazon gift cards just for using Bing instead of Google. The rewards are real, people.

I think Jeffs take on COD is kind of off. He is heavily underestimating the amount of people who just play the singleplayer and then check out a bit of the multiplayer and are done. As well as he saying that people didn't like the WW2 singleplayer and that might be a reason. I guess we live in two different realities then, that was way better then the futuristic ones. And I see most people agreeing with me.

Sounds like they suck ass at timing, and this shit from a monster hunter fanatic is hilarious

Sometimes yes, but I was just fighting those werewolf creatures from a tear challenge, and they would red-attack right through my long special and hit me out of it, while most of my attacks would barely phase them. If you have long wind-up animations for special attacks they should be untouchable like the R3 executions.

I would love for Jason to scale back on the quipping. You don't need to constantly insert yourself into every single sentence especially if what you mostly offer there is mouth salad. Take no offense, because I actually care about your opinions, and your knowledge on the fighting games genre etc. is interesting to listen to.

@kopcik: Oh dont worry, i have. Almost level 6, have put probably 25 hours into. It's just not a huge paradigm shift in any direction, its good at what it does. Its a great game, but theres nothing generation defining about it. I definitely see the darksider influence. I still stand by my combat comment, its nothing difficult at all, ive died twice, a lot of enemies are annoying to fight and not in a fun way, axe throw murks tazelwurms and draugr and witches super easy. Its just not that special of combat

@humanity: Ah I haven't made it that far. Just finished Alfheim. I will admit I had to restart because I was playing on "Give Me God of War" and many fights felt unfair.

@humanity: pretty sure I saw there's a perk/skill for that in the tree, (making your runic attacks uninterruptible)

I'm in love with the combat of this game, there's been a few times I've opened a realm tear and just had my ass handed to me immediately, most of the time I take as a cue to gtfo of that area for now, but sometimes try again and triump being more cautious/focused.

Those wolves are some real assholes, but so satisfying to overcome them.

@guip1408: You can tell just from the achievement data that the majority of people who buy call of duty aren't finishing or even getting more than an hour or two into the campaigns.

@petefic: I forgot to mention, my point of view is "I don't own a ps4". I'm on PC, most of my "community" doesn't enjoy COD multiplayer, WW2 was enough to make all of us play the campaign. But that just might be a small sample size that I'm leaning on.

@mosthigh: Yah a little later in the game you start encountering enemies that are simply much faster than you in all regards and at that point it's basically all about parrying. The game does tend to do that thing where the further you get in the more immune to all your attacks enemies become, and you sort of have to start going back to basics to get them down.

Still I'm enjoying the game quite a bit and the combat is pretty fun, but if there is one thing I can agree with Jeff on through a lot of his rather negative takes is that this game feels like it's modeling itself after RE4 in a way that isn't too healthy in this style of gameplay.

Jason continuing his habit of spoiling things. Maybe in the future if you need to rob people of moments in games give more than a 1 second precursor of "at the risk of spoilers"

With regards to that processing question, I think a big part of future power increases to consoles and such will be differing interiors to buildings as well as more effects to exteriors, giving worlds less of a clean, shiny, samey feel.

@kopcik: I agree, man. I have been frustrated with the negativity lately on this podcast, and when they were all "too cool" to get at all excited about God of War, I'd heard enough. Nothing is good enough o GiantBomb these days. I know their job isn't to hype games, and being a hater is where the clicks and comments come from, but since when is a unanimous 10/10 game, which happens to contain many new/unique features, get this kind of dismissal? The most positive thing they have said is how cool the axe sound is when it comes back to Kratos. If you don't like video games anymore, maybe try something else. Or let Ben and Jason talk more. They seem to have interests in things, at least.

@renaissancexd: This is going to sound terrible, but they (especially Jeff) do have a habit of just not loving Sony exclusives as much as a lot of other people.

Couple of case in points from this generation, with games that didn't make their top 10:

Bloodborne

Uncharted 4

Persona 5

Nioh

Horizon

The Last Guardian

Yakuza 0

Until Dawn

The comments are gold on this one.

People like and dislike different things.

@dragon_puncher: Agreed, you forgot his weird hate of Red Dead. But he loves Ghost Recon Wildlands???? Confusing!
I know the crew tends to favor some genres i don't care for -- puzzle, SHMUP, and fighting games -- my least favorite genres; (I will never watch Ranking of Fighters ha-ha). I mean Jeff loves number tapping games... I'll pass on those. And Burnout Paradise was fun, but they nominated it for best game ever... NOPE! I never would have made Mario Maker a Game of the Year runner contender...
You just have to know your reviewer and their tastes vs your own. (I know Dan is way more fanboy over Nintendo games than me for instance - I had some issues with Breathe of the Wild like Jeff did).

So yeah, Jeff and the crew do blast a lot of the games you mentioned that a lot of us liked, and their top 10s rarely match mine. (I'd take Gravity Rush 2 over Thumper, they didn't). But its opinions. And it also means they cover a lot of games I wouldn't look at myself. So thats actually cool. I do find it odd that they'll give Trackmania a 10/10, and then hate on Uncharted. But at least I know that going in to their reviews -- its why Quicklooks are 100% better than reviews, a reviewer can not like a game (or like a game) and I can still see it for myself. So as long as you know your reviewer, it doesn't really matter if your "likes" line up :)

This episode is trash and dumb to smoke. Also, @unastrike stop spoiling shit

@bartonaa: You're exactly right! They just hate video games! That's why they also like video games that they personally find enjoyable!

Wait a second...

Y'all need to chill out and stop expecting the guys to love every release that ends up on their desks. "Unanimous 10/10 game" is a meaningless phrase. Sometimes Giant Bomb's opinions align with popular consensus, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes, at least once a year (and for dozens of hours), the members of Giant Bomb vehemently disagree with one another. It's almost like people are capable of having their own opinions!

I think I know what part Jeff is talking about when he said he got done with the father son stuff and if so I could not disagree more. That was one of my favorite parts so far.

I also actually disagree with the take that Kratos is two-note here. Yeah, he is mostly gruff and angry, but it actually feels like a wall here. Like he's holding the world, even his son, at arms length. A lot of this comes from Christopher Judge's pretty spectacular performance. There are some tone changes that last for maybe a word but add an entire dimension of character that Kratos has never had.

There's an easy fix for having Titanfall 3 fill the traditional Battlefield release slot: you Reese's Peanut Butter Cups that shit. Crossover, baby! Titanfall 3: Bad Company.

@kopcik: I think it’s pretty amazing. I would say it’s one of the best games I’ve ever played too but I am feeling like I play for a bit and then feel like putting it down. I just don’t want to mainline it as much as some games. Not that this is a bad thing but it is what it is. I imagine they feel pressure to play thru it faster so they can discuss it whereas I can take as long as I want.

@kopcik: I think it’s pretty amazing. I would say it’s one of the best games I’ve ever played too but I am feeling like I play for a bit and then feel like putting it down. I just don’t want to mainline it as much as some games. Not that this is a bad thing but it is what it is. I imagine they feel pressure to play thru it faster so they can discuss it whereas I can take as long as I want.

God of War is awesome. I've put about 10 hours into it and it's in the running for my favorite console exclusive game of this generation so far (competition being Uncharted 4 and Bloodborne). Also, Demon's Souls is never getting a remake. The publisher side of things is too complicated for that one.

Jason spoils stuff so watch out. Skip over it.

They failed to mention probably the biggest news about Housemarque's new game: it's shaping up to be a BR.

That Serious SAM as a service joke was S-Tier, well done Jeff

@chandemic: my point was that you can't formulate an opinion (worth sharing with thousands of people) when you haven't played more than a "demo" of the game. Jeff hadn't progressed at all in the skill tree of God of War. And the God of War example was used just because its most recent. Jeff and Brad are burned out on this and its showing through. It's my opinion that their podcast is has become more of a forum to complain than a form of entertainment and information. Whether Jeff finds it fun or not doesn't matter, but God of War is on objectively great game. People who don't even play games could watch or play 15 minutes of God of War and realize its on another level from other games of its type/genre. If you've listened to this podcast for years too, you'd notice the shift as well. Its much more negative now. Beastcast does it right.

Yikes, glad I played through the section Jason mentioned before listening to this, I would have been super pissed.

Also not getting his complaints at all. The combat starts out a little rote, but once you open up with more attacks, more runic options, equipment, and Atreus upgrades, then it becomes amazing. Tons of crowd control options to let you get off combos or isolate enemies and mixing up ranged/weapon/unarmed attacks lets you deal flexibly with different enemy types. Outside of some early fights, I haven't run into any of the frustrations he seems to encounter.

The only caveat to that is the "leveling" system is a little weird. Finding an (optional) enemy that just one shots you out of nowhere is weird for this sort of game, as is rolling through a low level side quest you happened to not do until later. I wish they had allowed for the customization options in equipment but not had strict stat boosts that make some battles nearly unwinnable or unlosable.

Also not seeing the comment about Kratos being a "one-note" character in this game. The characterization isn't all that subtle, but it's certainly there for both him and Atreus, as is the development of their relationship or Kratos dealing with his past. And it comes out in a lot of interesting ways, without getting into story spoilers. We're a long ways away from screaming guy who wants to murder everyone, where he was the definition of a one-note character.

Don't expect everyone to universally praise the game, but it almost felt like Jason was playing a different game.

@howdire: thanks, came here to say just that. A real shame Jeff in particular is being so dismissive when he can’t be bothered to dig into systems, puzzles, fights and gear that gift you with runes, talismans and equipment vital to progression. This game is brimming with them at every turn. I like Jeff a lot, but I find he does this often.. doesn’t give games the fair shake they are due, all because he’s frustrated quickly. Not to mention, Jason seem to be only one pointing out how gorgeous this thing looks. Hands-down the best looking video game on consoles.

@bartonaa:

@kopcik:

I've been listening to the Bombcast for four or so years, and no, there hasn't been a shift toward negativity. It's just that when the GB crew criticizes games you don't care about, you don't say anything.

Also, I have no idea why people are complaining about God of War coverage. It got 5 out of 5 stars on this site AND both Jeff and Jason said, and I quote, "This is the best God of War game I've played, and I'm having a good time with it".

Apparently the last bit is code for "Blaaargh we hate fun!" in some people's minds.

Holy cow Jason is a negative Nancy. His complaints are so paper thin and whiny. Half the time I felt like yelling at the speakers "Just get good!".

I am a big fan of Serious Sam

@dasakamov: Again, I don't have a horse in this race. I hardly even play PS4, and I have no sentimental investment in the GOW series, although I have played them (I play mostly sports games on xbox). GOW was just the most recent glaring example of them lacking experience before giving such adamant opinions. They are assuming way too much if they have an opinion on the game after not even getting to the lake portion of it, which is pretty much when it begins. You shouldn't go on a podcast and discuss the skill tree if you haven't seen it or used any of it. Jeff said he didnt know anything about the previous GOW games, and then proceeded to speak as if he did while complaining about the Mythological Gods and their lack of fit in the story (which is asinine) They did the exact same thing with FarCry5, in that they didn't see nearly enough of it to form any valuable opinion. Jeff is in charge, so Jeff talks, I get that. However, he also tries to make light of just about anything he can in what seems to be an attempt at comedy. Alex is the "negative Nancy" at GiantBeast (and they all know it, including him), but he's not mocking and you can tell he actually puts real time into the games he discusses in depth.

This podcast HAS become more negative and there is much less appreciation for great work from the senior members. Ben was a nice, fresh addition, with what seems to be a lot of modern gaming knowledge but he can hardly get a word in. Jeff seems like a super cool guy to hang out with, but on the mic, he does not come off genuine or as someone who enjoys PLAYING games. I think he loves biz, loves tech and collecting, but he doesn't seem to appreciate newer games unless they are 2-hour indies.

@bartonaa: As a matter of fact, I've been a listener (and viewer, too) since the Whiskey Media days, and I sporadically followed Jeff and Ryan during their time at Gamespot. I'll grant that Jeff may be a bit more cynical than he used to be, but I don't understand why that's a bad thing. He's very excited for new innovations in the industry, and even in this very podcast he describes how he's looking forward to see what certain developers and publishers are going to be doing to shake up their existing franchises. I see it this way: when someone has been covering the industry for over two decades, they've been around the block a few times. As much as I personally look forward to getting a PS4 in the future to play God of War, Bloodborne, etc., I respect Jeff's opinions even when I disagree with his takes, regardless of how hot those takes may be.

On a much simpler (and more human) level, someone can not like a thing without affecting how much you like that same thing. You may disagree with his opinion, but "objectively good game" is an empty phrase. How can media or art be "objectively good"? What qualifies as good? How does a work of art achieve perfection formally, functionally, or by any other metric? To what degree is something's quality relative to what came previously? I guess what I'm trying to illustrate is that this is an epistemological nightmare of an argument. It's worthy of discussion though, which is why the notion of something being "objectively good" is more of a conversation ender rather than a conversation starter. Debate is good - let's agree to let the duders disagree.

@chandemic: Objectively good, meaning the game is technically great, well built. I am not talking about fun factor at all. GOW is an amazing piece of software if that's how you prefer it's said. The art is up for interpretation, but you know when you are handling or playing something that is VERY WELL MADE. This isn't thrown together like Fortnite BR. I am not disagreeing with Jeffs opinion either, I am stating that his opinion (being that of an industry "celeb" if you will) is not valid if he has only seen 1/100 of the game. Your experience should be somewhat proportionate to the size of the media you are discussing, if you choose to be a critic of it. You don't read the first chapter of a book and then go give thousands of people your opinion on the book as a whole...With those people expecting YOU to be the one who would know better, being the "pro" in this situation. I love debate, I love hot takes, and I love some of Jeffs funny one-liners, but if you don't know about it, don't talk about it like you do. He's shooting from the hip nowadays and Brad just says "oh, yep" to everything Jeff says.

For example, I played The Last of Us when it came out. Personally, I did not enjoy PLAYING that game very much because the clickers were annoying and the story made me anxious and the shooting wasn't great (like Uncharted). However, you can't play the game without being wowed by the craftsmanship. Last of Us in another game that could be considered "objectively great". Industry vets and devs will tell you how great that was built. It has that signature Naughty Dog premium feel throughout, like you know they hired the most badass devs and spared no detail. There are parts of video games that can be objectively measured.

BTW Brad if you have any questions about getting the Windows headset up and running feel free to shoot them my way.

I find with God of War I was really liking the game but found it to be way too easy on normal mode. Once I put the difficulty up to "Give Me a Challenge" the game got a lot better, some parts are very frustrating on hard but the regular encounters require much more strategy and making one poor move can cause you to see a game over screen. I almost wish they had a difficulty in between these two so I could still feel like a badass without the game being an absolute cakewalk.

@bartonaa:I will agree with your second point to a certain degree. I think that someone is allowed to have an opinion about something despite not finishing it. I don't think that Jeff or Jason are attempting to pass off their critiques as reflections of the game as a whole - they were both very clear about their progress, which is more than fair. Now, if they were writing a review with these sorts of opinions, then sure, I would be right behind you.

However, with your first point, I think these are still subjective qualities that are subject to debate. Polish and game-feel should definitely be considered in these discussions, but I don't think that they provide anything more than a bedrock sense of "quality" that keeps the game from being lumped in with games that feel slapped-together or otherwise shoddy. Perhaps I'm more cautious about labeling games as objectively good or bad because many of my favorite games, past and present, are "flawed masterpieces" that I appreciate in spite of their occasional warts. I loved Nier: Automata, for instance, despite its barren "open" world and fairly simple combat. The ways in which the story and characters bled into the gameplay itself made Nier a memorable experience that, to me, was more than the sum of its parts. I have friends, though, who were immediately turned off by the combat and didn't want to continue. Did I think that they were missing the point or somehow not justified in their decision? No, because I acknowledged that there's no accounting for taste, and you can't expect people to form some sort of universal or unanimous agreement about a game's "quality" based solely on its craftsmanship. I was sad that they wouldn't share this experience with me, but then again, I've felt the same way about similarly acclaimed games in the past!