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Jar Time w/ Jeff

Jar Time w/ Jeff: 06/27/2017

We're back from E3 and it's time to answer your questions about arcade bars, old games, very old games, preserving old games, and Vietnam.

You ask the questions, Jeff Gerstmann supplies the answers.

Jun. 27 2017

Cast: Jeff

Posted by: Jeff

In This Episode:

Jeff Gerstmann

69 Comments

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AV_Gamer

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Saturn is a great system. And if you can import games, it's well worth the money. That's how I maintained my enjoyment of it back in the late 90s early 2000s after the system died in America.

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megasoum

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I remember really liking the Vietcong game on PC that came out in the early '00 (I think).

It was a big janky but I really loved the campaign.

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avyshue

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Jeff's point that games being readily available via piracy chilling Nintendo's ability to re sell you those games is absolutely accurate. I'm not going to pay $80 for a box to clutter up an hdmi input on my receiver when my pc is already ready to go. If i was unable to play link to the past or super metroid for the last 20+ years i could easily see nostalgia creeping up.

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pinballrj

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I miss the jar

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krummi

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I kinda forgot the worry about games rotting after hooking up my old Amiga 500 after 20 or so years and realising that nearly all of the floppies I still had left worked jut fine.

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PebbleInSpace

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So would you say it's a... question bucket?

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epicp0tato

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Bucket Time w/ Jeff

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Noises

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Edited By Noises

This is my favorite feature on the site

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entireties

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cant be concerned about disc rot. like discs, we will all rot

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sabeau

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@avyshue: People couldn't get enough of the NES classic, in fact it still goes for a premium especially since they prematurely stopped production, and those games can be emulated by a browser window, the most accessible platform of all. I imagine the margin on that product was very wide, and would still be.

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KgKris

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"preserving old games" hype!

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glots

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Oh yeah, this isn't Home Game. I was starting to wonder why Jeff is only talking instead of playing.

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thepenguin55

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For cleaning old cartridges I use metal degreasers. Works better than rubbing alcohol.

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redking56

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@avyshue said:

Jeff's point that games being readily available via piracy chilling Nintendo's ability to re sell you those games is absolutely accurate. I'm not going to pay $80 for a box to clutter up an hdmi input on my receiver when my pc is already ready to go. If i was unable to play link to the past or super metroid for the last 20+ years i could easily see nostalgia creeping up.

I don't see it as being a problem for this. The NES one shows there are people who will buy it just for the product itself and not for the actually service it provides. Much like the market for Apple products since the release of the iPod mini. Owning the product is much more enticing than actually playing the games on it.

The people interested want to own a product, much like how someone wants the new iPhone even though they can use pretty much any phone as long as it functions. Having ROM images hidden away on a hard drive isn't anywhere as satisfying for a general audience as having a corporeal box shaped like a console that plays them.

All that being said, it's probably cheaper importing the real thing from Japan. I have a SFC and most of the games on this list and I think it cost me less than what they're selling this new one for. Of course it's all in Japanese but it's not hard to find translations and learn Katakana.

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EthanielRain

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Edited By EthanielRain

@avyshue said:

Jeff's point that games being readily available via piracy chilling Nintendo's ability to re sell you those games is absolutely accurate. I'm not going to pay $80 for a box to clutter up an hdmi input on my receiver when my pc is already ready to go. If i was unable to play link to the past or super metroid for the last 20+ years i could easily see nostalgia creeping up.

I think Nintendo chills their own resale ability more than piracy. They don't produce enough hardware for some reason, and their online policies and store are insane.

They could sell millions and millions more, but they seem to choose not to. Hard for me to see piracy as the problem, so much as Nintendo being Nintendo/crazy.

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Purps

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I don't understand the notion that it's disrespectful to make a game based on certain wars/conflicts, but no one ever complains about making films about them. Look at Vietnam, you have tons of films based on it that portray it respectfully/realistically like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Apocalypse Now. But even as Jeff said, there is the Rambo movies. Which are the farthest thing from a respectful portrayal of the conflict and people involved. Yet I have never once heard people feel that it was distasteful for them to make those movies.

I feel like the "games are kids toys" idea is still ingrained in peoples heads to some extent, even people who love games and argue for them as an artform. This isn't just this one issue regarding war. There are so many things in games that are viewed as highly controversial, that are not even blinked at when portrayed in film or television.

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Flavbot

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Edited By Flavbot

Genuinely one of my favorite features of GB. Jar time is best time.

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bathala

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Short Jar time

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pxbart

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@avyshue: I think this is true for people who are tech savvy, into video games news/reviews/previews, and keep up with the latest consoles or PC parts. For the person who isn't any of that and just played some games as a kid, this kind of no hassle-plug-and-play style box has a lot of appeal. I believe that the NES Classic Edition was meant for them, and Nintendo produced them with that quantity in mind. I've got a 3D printed Mini SNES/Raspberry Pi that I made myself as a result sitting at home that's easy enough for me to navigate around, but it has enough jank to it that some people might find off-putting.

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onarum

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@petefic said:

I don't understand the notion that it's disrespectful to make a game based on certain wars/conflicts, but no one ever complains about making films about them. Look at Vietnam, you have tons of films based on it that portray it respectfully/realistically like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Apocalypse Now. But even as Jeff said, there is the Rambo movies. Which are the farthest thing from a respectful portrayal of the conflict and people involved. Yet I have never once heard people feel that it was distasteful for them to make those movies.

I feel like the "games are kids toys" idea is still ingrained in peoples heads to some extent, even people who love games and argue for them as an artform. This isn't just this one issue regarding war. There are so many things in games that are viewed as highly controversial, that are not even blinked at when portrayed in film or television.

The thing is when those films were made, we weren't on the current outrage era yet; Suddenly people started to get a billion times more anal about everything....

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Lanechanger

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Ha, the analogy that arcades are zoos is amazing.

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mintyice

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Can we get an audio version of this?

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TanookiSuit

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For cleaning old cartridges I use metal degreasers. Works better than rubbing alcohol.

How much harsher is it on the thin contacts and part of the circuit board though? If at all. Not sure what that stuff is made up of.

I always use alcohol and it hasn't been a problem, but always looking for a better method.

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Mezmero

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I haven't ran emulation on my PC for many years but I'm glad it's still out there, especially for arcade games. It bums me out to never see cabinets anywhere in the wild but the most specialized of businesses. I was at a laundromat the other day and I had to play something on my phone because all they had was a snack machine and a dumb UFO catcher. So I tried to play a clicker and it kept crashing because my current smartphone is obsolete. Thanks as always for the website Jeff.

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Dave_Tacitus

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@jeff - I've been bypassing the optical drive on the PS2 for years. A network adaptor, a PATA hard drive and a fair wind is all you really need, although I managed to track down a bootleg SATA network adaptor a while back, which makes pairing it with a hard drive a lot easier.

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Stop420Snitchin

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MORE JAR TIME PLEASE MAKE IT WEEKLY OR BI WEEKLY!!!!! IT IS FAR AND AWAY THE BEST CONTENT ON THIS SITE>>>>

MAYBE DO A SIMILAR ONE MAN SHOW WITH THE OTHER VETERANS LIKE VINNY ,BRAD ,AND ALEX


It MUST BE THE CHEAPTEST AND EASIEST TO Produce!!!
PLEASE MORE ONE MAN SHOWS!!!!!!

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zipzopzoobitybop

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@stop420snitchin: Jeff mentioned in a recent reddit post that he had been holding off on recording a new Jar Time until he had gotten enough good questions.

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thepenguin55

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Edited By thepenguin55

@tanookisuit: It really isn't very harsh at all if you use the right kind. Simple Green is a pretty good one (though it's not the one I'm using now... whose name escapes me at the moment). A lot of my carts look basically brand new. All the games I've cleaned this way I haven't had to clean for a couple of years now (even the ones I use pretty regularly). With rubbing alcohol I feel like I had to clean the same cart every time I wanted to use it. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like there's been a pretty big difference.

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alphanull

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Edited By alphanull

no jeff, no. plextor drives are snake oil - digital is digital, there is no accuracy degradation. you can copy a file a trillion times over via any shitty cd writer and the file WILL NOT DEGRADE.

edit: their laser etching techniques dont prolong the lifespan of a master cd, either. but you can fit an extra ~100mb on a cd-r!

edit edit: rendering the cd-r unreadable by anything other than plextor drives.

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Swell_Gibson

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I would love to see a light-gun feature on the site. Testing out all the different guns from the old systems would be neat to see!

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Blu3V3nom07

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Hey, where do you get that shirt?.

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spacemanspiff00

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Cafe 80's!

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EggDaddy06

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How do you pm questions to Jeff?

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Onemanarmyy

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Edited By Onemanarmyy

i watched this before i fell asleep, so i might be spacing. But did Jeff look at the back side of a CD and then state that the CD was almost filled up? Are you able to tell how much data is written on a CD by looking at it? I feel so dumb :D

Regarding the Nintendo stuff, I don't feel that piracy is really stumping Nintendo's ability to sell their commercial product because they are not going to meet demands anyway. They will sell all the SNES'es they make, guaranteed.

@eggdaddy06

press the mail icon at the topright of the page, click compose, search for 'jeff' send PM.

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Kingpk

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The NES Classic was absurdly easy to hack and fill with pirated games. It was shocking that a company like Nintendo didn't even attempt to lock something like that down. Maybe they will with the SNES classic or maybe you'll be able to put the entire SNES library on it and have it connected to your TV for the two times a year you want to play something for 10 minutes.

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Edited By larmer

i watched this before i fell asleep, so i might be spacing. But did Jeff look at the back side of a CD and then state that the CD was almost filled up? Are you able to tell how much data is written on a CD by looking at it? I feel so dumb :D

Yes you can.
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/screen_kubrick/0/26/2948675-vlcsnap-error941.jpg
I believe it writes the data from the middle outward. You can see a distinct edge where the disc becomes much more reflective and smooth.
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Enik

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Rising Storm 2: Vietnam just came out earlier this year and it seems like people like it. It's a more realistic squad based shooter then games like battlefield but it still looks fun.

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Onemanarmyy

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@larmer: i always knew that the data was written from the inside out but i never thought you could actually see it. Interesting!

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chaser324

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Edited By chaser324  Moderator

@av_gamer said:

Saturn is a great system. And if you can import games, it's well worth the money. That's how I maintained my enjoyment of it back in the late 90s early 2000s after the system died in America.

Bulk Slash is one of my favorite examples of this. There's so many buried gems like it on the Saturn.

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kingyo

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Edited By kingyo

@onarum said:
@petefic said:

I don't understand the notion that it's disrespectful to make a game based on certain wars/conflicts, but no one ever complains about making films about them. Look at Vietnam, you have tons of films based on it that portray it respectfully/realistically like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, Apocalypse Now. But even as Jeff said, there is the Rambo movies. Which are the farthest thing from a respectful portrayal of the conflict and people involved. Yet I have never once heard people feel that it was distasteful for them to make those movies.

I feel like the "games are kids toys" idea is still ingrained in peoples heads to some extent, even people who love games and argue for them as an artform. This isn't just this one issue regarding war. There are so many things in games that are viewed as highly controversial, that are not even blinked at when portrayed in film or television.

The thing is when those films were made, we weren't on the current outrage era yet; Suddenly people started to get a billion times more anal about everything....

Hmm I don't think that's it, I think it's more that AAA games want to have widespread appeal and that normally means that war stuff becomes dumb action movie. That's fine and fun but doesn't fit very well with the tone of how Vietnam is perceived, plus when the enemy isn't nazis, terrorists, aliens or robots people tend to get a bit wary of mowing them down.

Those films mentioned are very far from this tone, and as games are a pretty new media, in a pretty risk averse time, I don't know that anyone wants or knows how to make an engaging game that hits those beats. I hope we get there though, because having actually mature and adult plots in games that tackle difficult subjects would be super interesting. Though being made the active participant in a harrowing situation is obviously pretty different to passively observing a character going through that.

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monkeyking1969

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No Caption Provided

If you fill the bucket...Jeff will empty the bucket

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Edited By Onemanarmyy

@kingyo: Remember that Apocalypse Now kickstarter? They failed terribly and then decided to let people pledge their money on their own site. They only need 5 people to donate at the 1 million tier to make their goal! They seem pretty confident about this all since they haven't updated their twitter since february :)

Don't let your dreams stay dreams!

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monkeyking1969

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Edited By monkeyking1969

Some information on the science of Disc deterioration can be found at the Library of Congress - CD-ROM Longevity Research

It is a single page synopsis of studies, so it is a quick read. Simply put: The best way to slow it down ist keeping everything stored at stable temperatures. The good news is "...70% of discs in the tests had an estimated longevity exceeding 100 years. And that "...[only] 4% of discs would reach end-of-life (EOL) within 10 years". The ones that fail that quickly would likely be those cheaply made or poorly maintained media.; but just bad luck is a possibility too.

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syphentos

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didn't jeff answer the same question about disc rot in another episode?

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krustopian

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As someone responsible for a few 'talking people that have never experienced a CRT', I can attest to the draw of older games to the newer generation. I recently uncovered my Atari 2600 and after finally getting it to work on our LCD TV (even though it wasn't a CRT, it wouldn't tune in properly so the colours were a bit skewed making it authentic-ish) my seven year old son was glued to space invaders, pac-man and donkey kong.

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wildmatt

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Jeff or whoever is in charge of making these, PLEASE PLEASE produce an MP3 of the videos and make it a podcast feed! That is the optimal way to consume this, I do it myself, but everyone should be able to do this. Easily.

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YummyTreeSap

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Probably even more important than local impact re: WWII is that there's a clear and objective bad guy. When you're fighting Nazis there's an obvious justification for the violence you commit. Even though it could be thematically interesting for a game to place you into an immoral and pointless war like Vietnam, something movies have an easier time dealing with as they have no obligation to be fun, it's also really fucking hard to pull off and ultimately probably not worth the risk. It's therefore no real surprise that a lot of the Vietnam games that have existed have been depoliticized multiplayer games.

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Avioto

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Today I learned that Jeff owns a surprising amount of Just Dance games.

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monkeyking1969

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This comes up- all the time, but who is going to make the "new" light gun technology for modern HD tvs?

There must be twenty ways to make a fast, accurate, easy to use technology that would work for a gun shaped device that can be aimed at a modern tv screen...computer monitor, or even the largest tv in the world hung in a convention center auditorium. I don't think anyone felt the motion controls of the last 10 years have really given players what they want in terms of ease of use and accuracy.

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EggDaddy06

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