Quick Look: Beat Cop

lol are you seriously trotting out this terrible argument?

@darkcaedus: First of all, their background is important because it informs us to the nature of the bigoted language on display. European countries have a fair amount of unexamined racism because they have somewhat more homogenous societies and racial issues are not in the common consciousness in the same way they are in America. This is one of the reasons there are often offensive caricatures of black people in anime for example. It's possible they are as tone-deaf to the dialogue as it appears to us. It's not a very good excuse though.

It's clear through just the video that the attitudes and slurs they are using are ingrained into their design goals for the environment, not used as story material, and used casually enough to indicate they don't associate the import they deserve as aggressively offensive terms. It's not contained. It's fairly straightforward to extrapolate from this from what can be seen in the video, particularly because, as you say, none of the story is revealed here, we don't see that. It's used as simple, throwaway flavor dialogue, and it's bad writing.

It's also notable because the style of media they are emulating, they claim, is composed in primary part of this kind of casual racism, and yet, the articles I've seen on the game, after looking around to make sure I was not making too hasty a judgement, all point out that the slurs come across both too heavy for the usage and too casually used as flavor dialogue to pull off whatever they might have been trying to go for in tone. Not only that, but many of things they cite as inspiration are much less offensive that this is, I'll dare to say. It screams that it's trying too hard, it's awkward and uncomfortable to read, and plain bad. The aesthetic they wanted could easily be replicated without resorting to such a lazy device, or using less offensive terms that communicate the same tone.

I am studying game development in school, and this is a perfect example of how to not write a game. Making games is hard, and this is the kind of thing that gets put in because it's easy. It shows both what they believe the aesthetic goal is composed of, and a lack of thought about how it affects the experience of the player, and it hurts their game. There are many different options here to achieve their goal, and to portray minority characters in a way that doesn't involve such a cheap and lazy method, and they don't do them. They don't get a pass because it's a video game.

Also, characters can be portrayed negatively in a healthy, narrative way, that speaks to them as characters, and this sure isn't it.

Beet Cop

I feel like you can go two ways with racism in games - either it's a core part of the setting and how the characters respond to it is meaningful (I'm thinking something like Mafia III) OR you can take a more casual approach to the setting and gloss over the more offensive parts. From this QL, I feel like Beat Cop is kind of straddling both - the devs. have clearly identified that some '80s cop shows have racist undertones, but then primarily use it as throwaway flavour lines.

Take the "That gook at the dry cleaners" line for instance. If you've that guy at the dry cleaners, having that sort of incidental dialogue makes sense, even if only to establish that widespread racism is a hurdle to be overcome. However, having it as random flavour text that isn't relevant to any of the established characters only really points out "Hey, some people are racist" (which is unfortunately an obvious fact). It comes as distasteful, and borders on accepting it as just one of those things (to be clear, I'm not saying the devs. are racist, just that using it so casually comes closer than I would like).

Thanks for articulating pretty exactly my problems with the game as shown. It's a shame that the writing and characterization wasn't handled better, since there's other really neat things they've done.

This seems like an interesting game.

idk bout this game man. interesting idea, poor execution?

Citation needed.

Oof, very first scene they shoot a black man dead.

@sabeau: Fantastic posts! I sincerely hope the Giant Bomb crew read them and discuss this game with more depth in the next Bombcast.

Fair enough if people dismiss this game based on its poor handling of race issues in the first 30 minutes. But it makes me curious to see how it's treated further down the line. If the game truly is tonedeaf or if it tries to go somewhere with it, and whether it succeeds. I'd like to believe it's not the former, but I can't actually.

Besides being offensive and acting as a deterrent, what's the point of the protagonist being a racist dick? What does that add to the game? At least in the early parts, it adds hatred for the player character. You're playing as this guy, you're supposed to be helping him. But knowing that he's a racist scumbag who's a psycho to kids, would make me want to work against him. I'd instantly jump at all of the bribes. It'd feel in character too. But the game wants that decision to feel like a tough call, last resort kind of thing?

Yeah I'm curious.

When deciding to treat risky, sensitive, serious topics like racism, you accept the inherent risk and deserved heightened scrutiny that comes with it. Especially this game, where you play as an American cop. The judge is out on whether it's succeeding at, or even trying to do, interesting things.

Haven't seen it yet, but Get Out is reportedly an interesting thing about racism. It has a 99% on RottenTomatoes and made like a billion dollars or whatever. Do a good job and people generally don't have a problem with it.

@vibratingdonkey: The "shitty protagonist" is pretty noir. Not that it's right what they are going for, but it instantly reminded me of Cole Phelps in LA Noire.

I probably wouldn't play this even if they toned down the language. Don't really see where the fun is, and the writing isn't that good regardless.

"Reichswagen" and casually implying the drug store owner was in the Hitler Youth.

If you want to be offended, kinda seems like there's something here for everyone.

this game looks terrible! Though i would also like to see a Gta with this graphical style.Racial slur for African Americans followed by racial slur for Asians, what do they call the Italians, "Oh those damn spaghetti eaters..."

but i cant read that fast!

@sabeau: So you don't like it and that makes it bad and lazy? Colloquial dialogue to help establish place and setting is relevant, and arguably they weren't trying to emulate the actual media that was purported to have inspired this game, but rather the idea of that era, culture, and media itself. I think criticism is very important and can help guide things if it's nuanced and constructive, but it's hard for me to see people criticizing this games dialogue as anything more than a nitpick. Griping about being PC doesn't really get games any further, in fact I think it hinders developers from addressing adult topics and concepts in games because anytime it's attempted the devs motives and techniques are called into question. Saying you dont like the dialogue because it feels cheap is one thing, but then to make the jump to, "this is the way it should be" is armchair game design and offers nothing constructive. I also don't see how this argument makes sense outside of itself, as other games throwing around slurs arguably has the same outcome.

I don't think anyone is arguing you can't effectively use this sort of language in a game--but it's hard, you know? You've gotta work way harder, know what the hell you're talking about, and so on.

This just seems hamfisted--and I know English isn't the first language of the devs, but why should that matter to me as a player? The work either stands on its own merits, or it doesn't.

Also, that opening message rubbed me the wrong way immediately.

It's weird that the game's opening disclaimer says the is not meant to be a document of 80's NYC but then casually tosses in a lot the racial and cultural stuff (towards a whole bunch of different groups of people) as if it sort-a is meant to be a time capsule of 80's NYC... which is it?

What tone are they going for? It's tongue in cheek but also a bit edgy and just feels all over the place... perhaps it's just tone-deaf?

Yikes

This game misunderstands or simplifies dynamics in a similar way to those old cop shows, so mission accomplished I guess?

I just think it sounds fucking lame.

At least the music is good.

I'm starting to wonder if many people here have a semblance of an idea of the actual history of this country. Abe Lincoln would be racist by your standards. Before the PC age, very few people saw the problem with use of label words as "being racist". Treating races badly or differently was the actual meaning of racism.

NYC cops and criminals absolutely used the words used in this game - a lot. Many do to this day, just more carefully. Hence the racial police divide STILL going on and getting worse. 70s-80s NYC was a very racially tense place.

It's ok to depict history accurately. In fact, it's essential!

Maybe the 80's cops shows weren't so outwardly racist with their word use... I didn't watch them enough to remember... or care. I did watch movies then, even recently, and they were FILLED with them. Like, Oscar winning movies. And it wasn't a racist usage of the words for racism, it was just accuracy.

Whether or not you like the writing in this game is one thing, yelling racism over silliness just waters down the problem.

Rather than writing a college essay about it, how about:

The game's writing is generally lazy and does a disservice to the tone they were probably going for.

Damn, I was looking forward to this game from what I saw of it last year. This seems lame now.

Jeff playing this game like its tracking APM

Some hard tonal swings in these conversations. I do like the idea and visual style of the game though.

I completely agree in a broad sense. Unquestionably, there is a way to depict racism in a way that is both accurate and authentic, while still placing it in the proper context. But we shouldn't globalize too much, considering that most people, myself included, are really only taking issue with the way this particular game handles the topic. I haven't seen too many people say in these comments that this sort of language should be off the table in all games everywhere.

Personally I don't think Beat Cop or its designers are racist, I just think they were unthinking, and weren't as concerned as they ought to have been about handling this kind of language with the sensitivity it deserves. The game throws around racial slurs seemingly without any care or context, it uses them as flavor text with the casualness that it throws around 80s pop culture nostalgia.

And as I said earlier down the thread, the "don't take our game so seriously" disclaimer really rubs me the wrong way. If the disclaimer had said "This game deals with racial tensions in 1980s America, and may contain language that some find offensive", then yeah, good on them for taking the thing seriously. But no, they went the complete opposite direction and wrote a disclaimer that basically says hey man, if you don't like it, it's on you. It's the disclaimer equivalent of a shrug. Why should I give them the benefit of the doubt, when they so clearly can't be bothered to concern themselves?

To comment on the video - I don't really think accusing people on street corners is racist, presumably the games pixel art just doesn't show drug-gang street corners very well. It's definitely a valid avenue of investigation.

This game looks fun and it's a shame that it's trying so hard to be edgy in the writing. You really only need one or two racial slurs to "set the tone" and give context for the time period. You don't need a repeating dialog box about dry cleaning that constantly flashes an epithet.

Neat look to it, but presentation and gameplay seem to be lacking a bit.

This game seems thoroughly vile. It's almost impressive.

@flappyhands: Same and he is. I saw them in Seattle last year and they killed it. He sounded great which was my biggest concern.

Should they do the same with violence? Because you'd better have a WAY bigger issue with a way bigger list of developers if that's the case.

Hence, I think their commentary was entirely appropriate - is getting angry at THIS thing the best use of anyone's time?

Whereas, freedom of speech and expression is something I think needs to globally defended - because it's eroding, quickly. Keep in mind these corporations, that so many people worship, do not want people to have basic freedoms, at least, the ones around long enough to completely corrupt themselves don't - which is the long or short term nature of a corporation (because their only legal and moral imperative is often profit growth, and that's literally the only thing executives get ousted for in many of the most powerful ones)... and allowing them to have the rights of people (like, unlimited donation to political candidates, etc), without the moral sense or legal imperative to do act in the interest of humanity and nature.

These guys and/or gals who made this game are not racists, I assure you - maybe they wrote it a way people didn't like - the disclaimer, the story, the dialog, whatever - but they are not the right target for anyone's outrage or concern.

@zombievac: I don't think anyone in these comments seems all that outraged. Most people just seem largely indifferent towards the game or disappointed that more effort and care wasn't put into the writing. It's clear what the devs were trying to do, but I think they underestimated how difficult it is to actually do it well.

Excuse the minor hyperbolic sentiments I have, its just funny that even minor criticism is turned into "you're attacking our values - our free speech values!". And this is rediculous and simply not true. Critics are not the government. Disagreements (even extremly mild ones such as seen in this comment section) are not cultural policies or even the infliction of norms upon others. Its simply saying "look pal, I think the game feels off and I don't like it."

I read the term "outrage" a few times here and I cannot find any commenter that is outraged about something. All I read are disagreements about the tone of a product. If you happen to stumple upon this Mr. Outrage please point me to him so I can be part of the cool kids club also.

Nobody never attacked somebodies expressive freedom. Criticising a product is not an attack upon their own policies. I feel way more offended by some very naive sounding comments on here than this game entirely. Like people cannot even express their own concerns anymore without someone else thinking they're all heathens who don't believe in the true values of free speech and expression, which is a sense makes the "Free Speech advocates" way more dangerous to the values of free speech than those who are criticising a game due to its tone.

I've read through this thread and did not found any "eroding" commentary, hinting and suggesting that Free Speech rights are crumbling for some reason. Nobody should be so naive in believing such nonsense and noone here is in a position of enacting anti freedom of speech rules anyway, so I really don't get the point some people try to make here. At the very worst people did say some destructive criticism but not in a demeaning mannor.

All people do is explaining why this may be a game that seems "off" to them on the basis on their own natural point of view. People don't seem to realize that Free Speech and Freedom of Expression is a entirely careless moral rule as in it doesn't care who practicses it so the only importance is that it exist. With this said, everyone should be free to do things such as being critical to a product. On the contrary, people can express their concerns about the criticism that people have voiced, but not with the implications that freedom of speech is being attacked, which is just being plain dishonest to them.

Personally, I think this game looks great. Theres a lot of "offputting" and very amateurish commentary with this game as others pointed out but I don't see anything else that seems all too wrong. Its like GTA but way more topical about the themes of police shows. A issue I have there is that I know about no police series that aired in the 80's that would depict this sort of behavior to this extreme. So in a way, the Police officer you're playing does come off as way more unlikeable than anybody else, including other members of the police in the cutscenes so maybe you just play some random asshole who really does not deserve the job he is doing.

I believe that the devs should've put in branching choices like with many popular RPG series like The Witcher so the player can simply pick when you want to be racist prick or just being restraint and humble to others, however then maybe the criminals may (or may not) insult you and its your choice to "snap" or not. I think this sort of roleplay would enable the player to think outside the situation, like that the job as a policemen has turned the player character into an racist asshole because the way criminals act towards the cops, which is believe adds a layer of depth and empathy towards a seemingly brainless thing.

Where's the YouTube upload of this?

From what I've heard that's only the California penal code. But because Hollywood is Hollywood, it's been assumed to be used elsewhere. It's a weird Ouroboros.

@pancakepatriarchate said:

People are already getting upset over the racial stuff huh? Yeah it's lame and applied a bit too heavily but I guess that's part of the 'lame 80s cop show that would be terrible today' feel they went for. I dunno, this comment section might combust soon so here's this.

That screen makes it so much worse. You can certainly have an opening screen explaining where you're coming from and the vision of the game. You do not get to end it with a "so don't get offended".

All this discussion and nobody's mentioned the German is an ex-Nazi because of course he is (the thing the protagonist half-reads is "Blut und Ehre", or "Blood and Honor", a Hitler Youth motto).

@zombievac:

I'm starting to wonder if many people here have a semblance of an idea of the actual history of this country. Abe Lincoln would be racist by your standards. Before the PC age, very few people saw the problem with use of label words as "being racist". Treating races badly or differently was the actual meaning of racism.

Yes, standards for racist acts and opinions change with context. Any portrayal of Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, or whoever else in the pantheon of "great men" from history should acknowledge that they were not perfect by any means and fell well short of the philosophical ideals they espoused that we still hold dear. In general, using words to denote large groups, such as black people, Italians, people of color, LGBTQ community, or what have you, is not a problem. Label words that said groups reject and would prefer other people not to use is often a problem, though.

NYC cops and criminals absolutely used the words used in this game - a lot. Many do to this day, just more carefully. Hence the racial police divide STILL going on and getting worse. 70s-80s NYC was a very racially tense place.

It's ok to depict history accurately. In fact, it's essential!

Doesn't this game start with a disclaimer saying that this explicitly isn't an accurate depiction of 70s-80s NYC? That what they put in the game they put in there to evoke a certain feeling of cool TV-shows that they liked? I'm pretty sure they did, because I just replied to an image of it.

The thing is, if I did a homage to, say, the works of HP Lovecraft, I'd do an homage that included all the stuff I love about those works. What I wouldn't include: virulent, disgusting racism, because that is not part of what I cherish. This isn't an adaptation, they get to write their own story, so I'm left wondering why casual racism is part of what they cherish? If it's not something they cherish, but think is so important that it has to be included, I don't think they should just present some caricature of it without subverting it in accordance with the standards they hold today.

.

I can almost guarantee that no one who commented in this thread would have otherwise spent their precious time volunteering for Amnesty, Transparency International, or civil rights activism - I assume they have a different part of their week allotted to that activity, not the one spent browsing Giant Bomb.

I don't think this kind of criticism works, because there is literally always something better you could be doing with your time.

Haha I just know it from Demolition Man.

Europeans aren't allowed to make american cop games

This game's pretty gross. I wish Jeff and Brad were more willing to call it out for what it's doing. It seems like it usually falls to Alex or (formerly) Austin to start that conversation, but when Alex isn't around, this stuff seems to get a pass even when it's pretty messed up.

The game looks like it could've been interesting "oh, don't take it so seriously" crap about profoundly serious and current issues will ensure that they don't get a dime out of me and that I'm a little bummed-out about GB's treatment of it.