Quick Look: Stardew Valley

(I logged in just to say this.) THANK YOU!!! I hate it that a lot of the craft beers out there are IPA's. I've got me a fabulous Kolsch currently in fermentation. (Yes, I'm a homebrewer lol).

May I ask what you hated about Rune Factory 4? I loved that game, beat most of it. (When I say beat, I mean the main story. The dungeons got real stupid Post Game, and I kinda gave up on some of the last few farming stuff.)

It did suck that you really didn't have a clue on how to trigger certain events, or the fact that you had to trigger stuff at all in RF4. Plus some of the farming mechanics were a bit of a hassle.

I think it's really tough to be critical without coming across as negative or jealous. On the one hand, lone developers deserve to be rewarded for their work, and admired for their effort. On the other hand, the design is what's important. A talented artist / programmer can make a fun game with great production values that a lot of people want to play, but if it's a homage / clone of existing products, and the game is addictive... is that good or noble? Is that good design?

And if you're making a game on your own - are you even focused on design? Or is most of your time being spent on the graphics, sound and writing? How much of the design is just built around pre-existing systems and trends?

Players should be more critical of this kind of thing. Lone developers are often biased towards production, which I feel can detract from design, interactivity, and thinking about how their work will affect the end-user. We know how these things can affect people. We shouldn't assume that gamers have played all of these addictive games, so developers should just give them what they want.

We don't care enough about whether a game is potentially harmful or whether it's innovative, we just pat the developer on the back for being talented and doing a wonderful craftsman job and playing into the core audience. Yes... a lot of players like deep retro games, platformers, roguelikes, immersive environments and addictive games. No... that doesn't necessarily deserve a pat on the back.

I started laying out my crops like I would in a Harvest Moon game to avoid the problem of not being able to walk through them once they get to their second growth stage. Even after I realized I could walk through them I became paranoid that doing so could ruin the crop.

I watched this quick look yesterday, couldn't stop thinking about the game for 24 hours, caved and bought it.

This quick look was great, I'd love to see you guys check in on it once in a while if Dan keeps playing

@williamflattener: I mean, sure. It's a series of different goals all aiming for your limited time resource. If that's not your jam, it's a pity; it's really great. But peeps like what they like. (Also, Dan's kind of making it way more stressful for himself than he needs to be)

Maybe grab it on sale in Winter or something and lament how much you missed by not buying it straight off the bat. :P

@cyborgx7:

XD guilty of having amazing taste.

This game is stuffed full of content way more than I expected. I've barely started the farm and I'm already having to take notes. It could use a journal system just to recall all of the notes.

@spacefish: An exact reflection of all my thoughts. I also wish the soundtrack was a bit better when compared to Friends of Mineral Town. That feeling you get when you wake up and that music starts playing is something this game is missing. There are also a lot of silent moments, like the game forgets to put on music.

best fade out so far

@jintor: I feel you. Not trying to nay-say. Ever get that feeling that you just *know* you can be convinced with the right footage?

Hell, I should just get it and find out for myself. I've added it to my wishlist.

Last Harvest Moon I played was Save the Homeland for the PS2 and I thought I'd give this a shot... I made the right choice, it's amazing.

i would happily watch dan play this for two more hours on Wednesday or Thursdays show, alternatively an daily stardew would be cool or an endurance run.

also i love harvest moon, its much more timeless than animal crossing.

@ravey: These are all really crucial points that I struggle with, especially with balancing negativity and criticism. Just imagine me quoting every paragraph you just wrote and adding an emphatic "THIS" at the end.

I'm interested, though, in the sort of renaissance person mind that has the talent and gumption to not just do all the parts of a game, but also to do a good job at their own PR, and to succeed where bulky organizations can't, choked by their own approval processes and bloat.

My brain leans heavily to the creative side, and it seems to suffer equally on the logical, mathematical side of things, so phenomena like this are kind of a marvel to me.

A great quick look Dan, your excited nature was infectious.

Dan, I guarantee you would love Harvest Moon.

@williamflattener: I think if you judge it by the standards of the industry: manipulative, tried-and-true designs with high production values... then it's a great game.

The second point I want to make is that creativity in game design lies in the interaction, not the presentation / features... so if your design is basically A+B (Harvest Moon, Minecraft) wrapped up in great production values - graphics, sound, writing - what exactly does that mean? If you know all the things you're doing have already been massively popular, successful and addictive... and each part is fairly independent, so you're not really combining them into something different... at that point, aren't you just mashing things together?

I commend the developer for putting this game together, but I also think we shouldn't cut developers any slack when it comes to ethics and innovation. They know what they're doing, so it's up to them to decide if they care how their games will affect people, and whether they want to be truly creative in this medium.

Looking at the game objectively, it doesn't seem to do anything new or innovative. It doesn't break the mold. It doesn't take something niche and make it better or more appealing to a wider audience. And this ties back to zaldar's line of questioning: should a game be judged any differently if it's made by a team or by one person? And should games be judged by the standards of the industry, or by what we think is right?

Design should be taken as seriously as programming and art... especially the creative and ethical considerations of design. Showing off how talented you are or how much you love X, Y and Z isn't creative or thoughtful game design.

Dan 'average soup' Ryckert

Not every game needs to be a new bold push into the untested frontier of video games. Something that is an incredibly good implementation of ideas that are taken from various other games is perfectly fine. The main trouble with "AAA" development that doesn't push new boundaries and just stays with the tried-and-true is that often they put out a mediocre version of those well-used ideas.

Just the fact that it immediately rocketed to the top of the Steam sales chart when it released shows that it is appealing to a wide audience. Maybe that's just a factor of Harvest Moon itself being appealing to a wide audience (which I don't know anything about, I don't know Harvest Moon's traditional sales figures or public perception), but there's something to be said for taking that formula and ideas and making a great version of them on a platform that prior to this point didn't have a good version available.

A game should be judged on its own merits, and not by some magical hypothetical version of a "unique" product that it wasn't meant and isn't trying to be. If it tried its own thing and sucked that would be worse for everyone than it using a mixture of other games' ideas and doing them incredibly well.

@ravey: Looking down on the creator because he is not "pushing boundaries" in design and innovation is absurd. And nothing should be taken so seriously that criticism awaits anyone who does not live up to an ideal that a handful hold. Poo-pooing an objectively good farm/life sim because it is not advancing your gaming ideals seems a little silly.

Thoughtfulness in design has many end goals. The creator has produced something that fans of this game style will likely recognize as extremely polished and well put together. The game's design reflects an incredible amount of thought in regards to game play and the user experience. It is paced so well that you never feel like you're not getting things done while pushing you toward meeting your goals. Is that manipulative? If the goal is to manipulate the player to enjoy their time with the game then the answer would probably be yes. But what else are we asking for when we play a game then for it to manipulate us in some way. The thing is, we all want to be manipulated in a particular way. We generally gravitate toward those games that scratch a particular manipulation itch.

I'd be interested to hear what you consider ethical game design. If it is in regards to how a game will affect people per your post, I'd be interested in hearing why this game is transgressive.

Really digging how enthusiastic Dan is about this game.

Don't kid yourself. Computer games do not appeal to a wide audience. The games that sell are the addictive games that hardcore gamers like. There's little diversity in gaming, so people tend to like a lot of the same things. Indies are searching for the holy grail, connecting with other gamers, standing on the shoulders of their predecessors, and struggling for legitmacy. Lone developers and games with good retro graphics tend to get a lot of attention from the indie scene. Q.E.D.

Jon Blow has a great talk on this.

I don't think manipulating and gratification are inherently evil, but they're a means, not an end. A necessary evil. Clearly this is a much bigger problem in social games, so I don't mean to single anyone out... I just think it's important to think about the ethical and creative issues and how they affect us, as well as the games industry as a whole.

Mayonnaise machine

Can't get much more Harvest Moon than this and I'm okay with that.

Dan should do a solo playthrough of this!

As much as Dan's no mayo wrasslin' self annoys me, his infectious enthusiasm when he really digs a game has been a plus to GB, ever since he displayed it in the Eye of the Ryckert.

@aistan:I don't believe that, I'm just saying that if you're talking about sales, it's important to consider who buys games. Indie games go bottom-up from hardcore indie developers, to hardcore players, to steam users, to console gamers, and so forth. In other words, what I'm saying is that the creativity and ethical issues could be compounded in the process. On the one hand, the cream will always rises to the top. On the other hand, a lot of the games coming out do tend to reflect what hardcore gamers like.

That said... clearly there's a market for a Harvest Moon-style game on PC, and this looks better than any of the alternatives... but I guess my original comment was meant to emphasize design. It would just be nice to think that if you asked a developer why they did something a particular way, that they would have an opinion and answer beyond it just being what the other games did.

Dan Rykert loves Stardew Valley.

New Dan has TRULY asserted itself.

Easily my favorite part of the QL.

Tell me more about Princess Leia.

This look pretty good.

I would hang out with Abigail.

The best part is how he immediately split them up into "people to befriend" and "people to fuck with".

And Dan's right; George the old guy is pretty cool.

After watching this QL for 5 minutes, I've concluded that Dan has been a lifelong Harvest Moon fan and didn't even know it.

@danryckert you should really play Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town for the GBA.

Oh. Oh no. I broke the spell that Harvest Moon had on me on the Game Boy Color. I've stayed away from Rune Factory, but this... this looks like crack.

Hello darkness, my old friend...

Pam's trailer is way bigger inside than outside.

First Quick Look I’ve watched all the way through. Couldn’t turn away from Dan’s insane farming energy.

@mlarrabee: lewd

And the award for best first comment of the year goes to...

I can't wait till Joja Mart starts selling bugs to eat and drives Ryckert Ranch Farm out of business.

Haven't played this kind of game since Harvest Moon 64 but Dan's enthusiasm is just too contagious.

I'm kinda with everyone on the art style though, would be nice if they went like 30% more anime.

This is so not my style of game... I've never been a fan of the gather-resources-to-build-stuff-genre (Harvest Moon / Terraria / Minecraft, etc).

However, this seems to be so packed with random stuff that it actually has me interested. I might have to check this one out.

Joja brings much needed business to the local community

Dan's scorne against the heartless JoJa's market is hilarious given his well documented love for big corporations

Super cool. An iOS/Android version would be great to carry around.

I've not played Harvest Moon since I was a kid but is this different from Harvest Moon/Rune Factory in any subtle way I'm missing?

Farming is so ill.

@ravelle: would be perfect on the vita really