The Giant Beastcast: Episode 71

On a lighter note, I just started this week's episode and this is what immediately ran through my head:

"September 30th, 9 am. Eastern Standard Time

From here on in we record without a script!

See if anything comes of it

instead of our old shit

first shot Vinny - tuning a Fender guitar he hasn't played in a year..."

@sto_ln: Same here. I actually like that both the Bombcast and Beastcast record (mostly, since some are Jeff or Vinny doing solo ads that are straight advertisements) unique ads that are pretty funny. Also, it gives Jeff the opportunity to say "shaaaaave buttttterrrrr", and I think the world is a better place every time he says it.

Labelling Trump-supporters as Nazis and facists exclusively makes them legimate targets of hate. Try wearing a Trump-cap for a week in California without getting name-called constantly. Or, worse, straight up beaten down.

Trump is running against a woman who laughed at Ghadaffi being killed, blamed a video for the death of 4 Americans, and the list goes on. Was Ghadaffi a good guy? Probably not at all. But for those of us who know, and Hillary certainly does, that Ghadaffi was sodomized by knife before death...well, to laugh at that is just sick and depraved.

I think Hillary is an evil woman and we in Europe certainly pay the price for her mingling in the Middle-East. Vinny talks about shitposters tearing up the country, fair enough, but do know that the refugee-crisis here in Europe is a very real thing threating to destabilize large parts of Western-Europe.

You guys can talk about politics all you want but if you're gonna sit here and tell me Mortal Kombat or Tomb Raider are better movies than Forward Unto Dawn then I will fight you.

You do realize Trump is being endorsed by literal white supremacists, right? His opinions on minorities, women, and literally anybody not a white male are incredibly damaging to the US and society as a whole. But you seem to be troubled anytime someone on the GB crew makes any slight against Trump, so carry on, I guess.

A while back, I thought that the whole bomb-crew had agreed that harassment of women is wrong, while ethical disclosure was important in video games and games journalism, in regards to the "Gamer-gate" fiasco. This is my stance as well, and I suspect a lot of people who gravitated towards Jeff after the Kane & Lynch debacle.

So it is quite disappointing to see both podcasts discuss the over 100 hit pieces on Palmer Lucky and completely ignore the fact that a women was doxxed and exposed for harassment in every article I glanced through... for daring to identify as a "gamergater"

That's just the nature of partisan politics. Giant Bomb is very close to progressive media, progressive game devs, progressive friends of the site, etc.

I'm someone who thinks the majority of progressive politics and talking points are often absurd and anti-liberal. I'm not a Trump supporter, nor would I necessarily defend Palmer's actions. But progressive types are so insanely hyperbolic and contradictory on these matters, it's quite laughable. Again, it's just politics, and people like to think they're more informed than they really are. Progressivism tends to be just as silly and outlandish as the opinions of those on the far-right - the needle is just sat in the opposite direction.

So of course, a lot of the social justice advocates aren't interested in acknowledging their double standards when their side of the argument does the doxxing, the gossiping, the harassment. It's not relevant to them because she's not part of the groupthink. She identifies as a member of GamerGate, so clearly she's automatically venomous and morally bankrupt, and not worth any respect. This is identity politics and it's totally cancerous - most who consider themselves 'progressives' are utterly entrenched in it, and I don't think it's reasonable thinking.

I still like GB and they never really make their allegiances that obvious, partly I think because Jeff G might think differently in some matters compared to his peers. But I digress..

@sabas: Have you asked yourself where it all went wrong, why Trump is possible in the first place? And, you do realize that you support a woman who helped engineer wars costing actual people their lives? Children included.

Palmer Luckey's girlfriend was doxxed in articles? Wasn't just some of her Twitter activites shown? Including her retweet of a post insinuating that black people are "the real racists".

Or am I simply missing something.

@kibblez: Giantbomb is personality driven, and I like the people who run this site. I can take a step back and realize that people who have different political opinions have the right to express them without being attacked. I think the idea that Palmer Lucky is automatically a racist, or supports racists, because he wanted to do what Cards Against Humanity already does for Hillary is disingenuous.

As an Independent who saw first hand how Bernie was treated in the primaries, I am not happy how Democrats have gotten away with labeling anyone who opposes Hillary as Bernie Bros, Sexist, Racist, Misogynist, Alt Right, Deplorables, etc. These sort of attacks are why I will be voting for Jill Stein in November.

Here is X, X's real name is Y, Here is their twitter, here is what they like to do as a hobby. Look at how deplorable they are.

That is the very definition of doxxing.

Regarding her racists tweets, are you just repeating hearsay or did you form that opinion from looking yourself? My thoughts on police in America are that they are too insulated from criticism, they should wear bodycams with video that can not be hidden from public records requests, I think police need to have an impartial oversight committee, and I applaud the athletes that have protested during the national anthems at sporting events, but how can you call someone racist for retweeting someone typing out what is said in a video of a riot?

Yes, I agree. The whole Pepe the Frog thing is another example of how hyperbolic and babyish progressive reactionaries are. And let's not start on the strained cultural Marxism, aggressive gender supremacy politics, and resistance to condemning anyone whose skin tone is brown, regardless of their actions.

I don't want to turn this into a whole political debate here, but I hope GB and its readers know that communities always have differing opinions and stances on these matters. That's what was frustrating about listening to Patrick and Austin talk about this on their new VICE podcast - hyperbolic rhetoric and virtuous political posturing doesn't make for engaging listening for someone who might disagree, even slightly. At least this Beascast had a little heat in this respect.

@dotachump: So I assume it's specifically the Gizmodo article you are referring to, where they out her real name? Yeah that I'm against, and I didn't even know about the article before now.

I'm not calling her a racist for retweeting that "The real racists" tweet, but I personally think a lot of the stuff she has posted and aligned herself with is real questionable, and some of it kind of nasty. And obviously I'm biased, I'm not going to try and take some sort of centrist middle stance here.

That said of course I don't support any sort of harassment towards her or outing of her private information.

@dotachump: Naw bud, doxxing is revealing someone's home address, credit card/bank info, social security numbers, passwords, information about their extended family (which might be answers to security questions) etc.

Because some of us long time Giantbomb fans do not so quickly want agree, that the "thing" is actually what was going on. It's far more complex of an issue, to just brand a fairly large community as neo nazis. I shy away from labeling any group as something unless that is their self identification. Every group has a minority of even more alternative views, and then an even smaller subset of crazy people.


I am not afraid to say I hang out on the_donald all the time. There is some vile shit in there, but it isn't the majority by far. Perhaps I am just desensitized to it because I hung out on 4chan a lot when i was in highschool.

A part of me wants to believe that the money got to Palmer's head "Wolf of Wallstreet"-style and he just wanted to use his money to produce mischief from under the radar and watch the stupidity unfold.

Not really sold that this group actually reflects his political views. Either way, grow the fuck up, man. You know, "with great power comes yadda yadda". This goes for the presidential vote and the future of the whole world and the future of the people who you work with and now have to suffer through this shit.

@slayer78:I live in California, and sure haven't heard about anyone beaten, or even getting harassed, for wearing a Trump hat. There certainly are plenty of cases of people at Trump rallies punching protesters, though. That has actually happened and been in the news.

@kcin:

I was very glad with how they handled the discussion on the podcast. Vinny was very careful to indicate that people have their own views on either side. He wants to encourage discussion in the community as a whole.

I think people who believe they are of the right opinion on a subject become too vitriolic at times. I find its best to keep and open, critical and skeptical mind at all times. Don't spew your own hate to cast aspersion at people you consider hate mongers. Every one should try and remove emotion from discussion and consider fairness to one another. If we ever lost the ability to get along despite our individual views nothing would ever get done that benefits any one.

I want the star trek future but it wont ever happen, if we can't reach a peace. I believe in social libertarianism but I doubt Canada is ever going to go that way. I can't imagine having to deal with the american system.

@homelessbird: Please report back after a week in full Trump-gear. Please.

If Second Life actor guy is reading this: PLEASE DOCUMENT THE EXPERIENCE. There's something about that game that's unnervingly interesting from an outsiders perspective.

Same. I don't think I've ever listened to the premium podcast feed; if I had, I likely never would have been introduced to Brett or Small Businessman.

Boruto is a little shit.

Regarding the Bulletstorm remaster, the PC version suffers from early last gen porting issues, mouse problems, fov issues, crashing, Games For Windows Live... it needs a remaster if only for a good PC version.
Also "does the world need a Bulletstorm remaster?", yes, if we're holding video games at a high enough level to be massively important to humanity then yes, and if we can get any game re-released in a higher quality than it was before, in a better format for archival than something stuck with 3rd party programs integrated into it like GFWL then we're better for it.

I really don't understand why anybody would put so much thought into ad reading. To actually cancel a GB sub because of that seems excessive. But to each his own i guess, gotta do what you gotta do.

Yeah, he's saying that now, but wait until he gets elected.

Vinny's reaction to Boruto is fantastic. Just perfect.

Don't mind me, just getting some things out of my system.

I'm a firm believer that political opinions that aren't hateful are always valid. This doesn't mean that people should tip-toe around issues though. I get the feeling that if Trump wasnt such a giant racist who has no clue about politics, the presidential candidacy would at least be without too much drama. Just call a spade a spade, like @sabas did and people come along just fine.

I never heard about people calling "everyone" a racist just because they're conservatives. But then again people can be dismissive about all kinds of things, since it challenges their general perception and internalized bias, which everybody has. With that said, its just human nature that people are very eager to tell others on what they should believe (Human history, yo) so the best countermeasure against this is to listen to others first. @vinny did the right thing and at the very best, maybe somebody on here learns a little about some good old :plur (peace love unity respect). Always assume the best of someone and not the worst.

Kotaku has an excellent article about the lead designer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance who was one of the lead figures of gamergate. Its a very human article and not really about gamergate at all. Its a great example to show that someone needs a lot of context to understand from what standpoint a person is actually coming from.

Humans are never, ever, truely easy to look through. People are complicated and emotional but they are first and foremost people. With that said, Trump can't stop minorities, as they will become louder in the same vain that Clinton can't stop white supremacists for...being who they are. From my own experience I can tell that proper education is an inportant antidote of hate. If people wanting to erase a chance of people becomming extremist because they're believing that they're superior to another race, fixing the educational system should be the #1 priority. Enforcing laws that prohibits certain things while the systems are already in place is dumb anyway and an actual violation of standing Free Speech laws, no point into changing those. Inducing Fear is even dumber, but I doubt that it will happen even if Trump becomes president.

I just wish that people wouldn't be all that dismissive and hard to each other sometimes. Its well known that the internet isn't such a positive thing and its common sense being around hateful people in hateful circles will just foster even more of the same. But I'm hopeful that someday, people become more understanding and the internet becomes a less hateful place.

Nothing gets my blood boiling more than paranoid conspiracy theorists who think they have it all figured out.

RE: The politics. I don't support Trump. Never have, never will. He's an idiot. A base idiot at that. He taps into people's fears and manipulates them through it, he spouts lies nearly nonstop and when called on it, he either counters with yet more lies or pivots to something completely different and starts lying all over again. I'll be voting for Hillary Clinton come November, although I'm far from her biggest fan.

That said, I'll never support the idea that someone's support of a candidate should be grounds for them losing their job. As I think Vinny said, the one thing we absolutely know NimbleAmerica has done was that billboard. The rest is just hearsay until proven otherwise. I don't believe in guilt by association as a practice. Not in a courtroom, not in the court of public opinion. So when you boil it all down, Luckey gave money to a pro-Trump/anti-Hillary group/PAC and made a dumb "freedom-stripper" joke. Certainly not a good look, but nothing that should cost the man his job. As long has he didn't use Oculus funds or resources to help NimbleAmerica, his personal politics should be his to keep and I'd say that for him, or a pro-life pro-choice (brainfart!) advocate working for a religious group or any such scenario. Devs that want to pull their games from Oculus because they disagree with his politics are perfectly within their right to do so and I have no qualms with that either.

I also take issue with Alex's assertion that video games cannot be apolitical. There are SO MANY things in life that could be apolitical if people would just let them be. Granted, that's not to say that politics must be kept out of video games at all costs. That would be saying video games cannot be political, which is also false.

For the life of me I still can't figure out the Will Wright supporting Giuliani thing. I just cannot figure out what political/policy overlap is there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@dray2k: I think you summed things up pretty well. Between the gamergate and political drama it's been a crazy couple of years now. So many lines drawn in the sand. If you tell complex people they have to fit an exact mold, a lot of times they will rebel and go in the opposite direction or they will meekly and paranoidly conform. You see both sides of issues brag about their virtues, find horrible examples in their ranks and try to cover it up. People switching sides. People liking something, finding out they will be judged wrong for it and floundering. I see a lot of doxxing and bigotry thrown all over the place. But my side is the right one, so it's not the same as when THEY do it. Be on the right side of history, yet all history has a dark underbelly it wants to deny.

In the end I think it's been 2 years of bullies. People bully. Mob mentality is even worse. Yet when you're told you're superior for how you think you find excuses to being shitty to other people. Or you say that an X is allowed to bully a Y and everything explodes. It's just 2 butts pooping into each other and the amount of feces is growing rapidly.

Reports are in. The Giant Beastcast is awesome.

I'm disappointed you guys seem to think the Luckey controversy was just political. It's far worse than that, it's a racist white nationalism campaign: http://www.businessinsider.com/palmer-luckey-jeopardizing-facebook-oculus-rift-2016-9

Vinny's "respect both sides" plea is misguided. Why do I have to respect people who consider non-whites and the disabled as inferior? That's what Luckey is putting money into, that exact kind of bigoted and hateful internet culture.

@cementface9: i'm not american, but doesn't that weirdness and exclusive-ness also stretch to the word Republican?

America is a republic. If you're not republican, you're not a true american?

You should watch the Postal movie, it's pretty funny.

Also, I was listening to the Bombcast and the Beastcast back to back and I gotta say that Gerstmanns comments on the Palmer Lucky thing was way more reasonable. You shouldn't take memes too seriously or you end up giving them power. There's so much bait out in the internet and if you let yourself get trolled, you just end up giving ammo to the people who wanna get a rise out of you.

Your American election will be over in 2-3 months and when the results are in, the "political meme war" of 2016 will seem pointless. Go vote, but let people vote however they will and try to not be a sore loser when a democratic leader is elected in the end. That people are able to choose whomever they like is what it's like to be part of our free society.

@onemanarmyy: It's also a democracy, so if you're not a democrat, you don't support democracy I guess. right? right?

No, it doesn't work that way. They're just names for political parties.

@kcin: yeah that's what i'm getting at.

Cemetface is saying that progressive feels exclusive because it paints all the others as being regressive.

I was just pointing out that all political parties have names that are sort of exclusive.

If you're not liberal, you dislike freedom?

@onemanarmyy: oh, sorry. yeah. I couldn't find his post so I thought you were being literal.

I agree with your point, btw.

@sinjunb:

Read the article you link to.

The issue isn't whom Luckey supports for president, but the origins of the group Nimble America: a subreddit called "/r/The_Donald" that's directly associated with the growing alt-right movement. And the alt-right movement is associated with white nationalism, anti-Semitism, conspiracy theorists, and Gamergate supporters, for starters.

So he gave money to a PAC. A PAC associated with a subreddit. A subreddit associated with alt-right movement(s). A movement associated with white nationalism, ect.

Luckey > PAC > subreddit > alt-right > white nationalists

That puts him at least three degrees of separation removed from being any of those things or supporting them. Call me crazy, but I feel like a true anti-Semite wouldn't sell his company to and continue to work for a Jewish man.

This is why I love Beastcast Fridays!!! ;)

@homelessbird:

I too live in California - how did you not hear about this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/

@tastypotato: I don't know - must have missed it. Looks like a bad scene.

I mean, I'll still stand by my main point - it's plenty possible to be pro-trump in California without being harassed or punched. It seems that it's happened, but where I live and work I see Trump supporters all the time, and no one appears to be punching them. That shit isn't going down every day.

The idea that people are angry at Trump and his supporters because they are being "labeled as Nazis" is ridiculous, anyway. People are angry because of the actual things Trump has said. You don't need to be maligned by the media when you are out there calling Mexicans rapists.

Thank you Vinny, Alex, and Jeff B for putting on a great show during this very troubled week in video games. I was hoping for a Pulp Fiction sound bite at the end yelling everyone be cool.

Thank you Vinny, Alex, and Jeff B for putting on a great show during this very troubled week in video games. I was hoping for a Pulp Fiction sound bite at the end yelling everyone be cool.

Totally agreed. I am not on the side Palmer is going for, but I seriously doubt for example they would feel such a way about one of the people at some game related company being behind the gross naked Trump statute people set up in NYC earlier this year.

I understand Vinny's point but I think it's an overreaction to this one thing. It's much bigger than that. Sorry but a "Too Big to Jail" statement made about one side when they were in violation of the law is not some gross offense to me.

Vinny once again proving that if everybody was a little more like him, the world would be a better place.

Listen to Papa Vinny, folks!

@zaldar: One thing about the belief that Luckey's thing shouldn't be reported is that, at least according to what I'm hearing on this podcast, some people are deciding to opt out of development in Oculus as a result. And for me anyways, that made me realize that video games are just as much of a business as it is making the next DiveKick, at least for something like VR and what a revolutionary step it's touted as being. And in that case, Luckey, having that big influence, has to assess for the consequences of his actions no matter what you feel about politics and how you feel they should go by. At this point in time anyways, the whole thing seems pretty unprofessional, I mean imagine including donating to some meme aimed toward shitposting in your resume, if you even would. At least, again, that's how I'm seeing it right now. So I could certainly see the need to address it. Whether you think Luckey actually deserved the hate is a whole other thing.

And just to comment on the last thing you said about video game reviews, whereas I am with you that not enough people seem to care about what makes video games actually fun, that aspect of "fun" has broadened due to developers wanting to make statements and aim for like almost a sense of old-school poetry that for some of us find just as enriching as playing Geometry Wars. Granted, talking about the social criticism for Geometry Wars would take a master persuader in proving to me that that isn't totally stupid, but it's all about what the game is doing.

I almost passed out from rolling my eyes too hard at that ad guy at the end. Good lord.

Loved This Ain't No Game! I wish someone would pick up the torch and continue the series.