Unfinished: Monster Hunter: World 08/24/17

@negativegray said:

I really enjoy Monster Hunter in spite of it's ancient design choices and graphics.

You make it sound like "real" Monster Hunter fans are only people who hate change and want to keep playing a game that has had the same controls, graphics and UI for over a decade.

Just watch this video if you wanna see how hilariously little progress this series has made since 2004.

Everyone time i see someone hating on this game they bring up "scripting" and i just don't get where they keep getting this idea. From my experience most monsters in the series are just dumb hitsponges that deal a lot of damage. These games have never had super intelligent AI that learns your moves and tries to outmaneuver you. They have specific attack patterns and you learn them and that's the game.

Anyway, this game looks incredible and i can't wait to play it.

It's a Japanese game that's very popular in Japan. I like cats so i don't mind them. Plus you can dress them up in cute costumes.

Again, I don't speak for anyone but me. I'm one of those fans, yes. I like those ancient design choices and graphics, thank you very much. They are what makes the game unique and not just Toukiden or God Eater. It's the slow pacing that I enjoy. There is a reason why Broodwar is *still* more popular than Starcraft 2, you know. Not every game needs to be kept fresh.

It's about the attack patterns I'm talking about. Most of Monster Hunter's challenge is learning the movesets and how to fight each monster. That is the real progression, not increasing your weapons or armor. That is the difficulty. The monsters don't need to be Deep Blue.

@negativegray: Honestly I consider the vast majority of that stuff improvements. The stationary nature of the bowgun, for example, was always the biggest turn-off of that weapon for me, but now I kinda want to use one. (Although you're still stuck in place for your big power shots, on both the bow and bowgun, which is fine.) I'm pretty sure the developers have said the reason for the increased mobility is because the lack of zones means there's no longer safe places to escape to for a breather, and that's a 100% acceptable trade-off imo.

The only thing I'm iffy about right now are the scoutflies leading you to your target. I'm perfectly okay with ditching paintballs, because they were kind of dumb inventory clutter, and I actually love the idea of using actual animal tracking techniques, like footprints, to find your target. I would just like a better middle-ground that's less straightforward, like until you actually find the target you only get a general direction where the monster probably is. But honestly, even if it's exactly as handholdy as it looks that's only a minor complaint. It's not the reason I play Monster Hunter.

Also, your first encounter with Rathalos usually isn't all that tough either. Definitely tougher than Great Jaggi, but I remember the first time I fought one (solo) I beat it without significant trouble. It didn't require anywhere near the preparation of the high rank monsters. (In a group of 4 those first encounters are always stupidly easy imo, which is why I always clear the story solo first.) You also have to consider that this time around Rathalos is in the very first area of the game in seemingly some pretty low tier quests. So regardless of its rank or difficulty in previous games, that doesn't necessarily mean it holds the same tier in World. For all we know Rathalos is newb fodder and there are way tougher enemies later, where you might expect to face a Rathalos normally. It's too early to say anything definitively.

The archaic design choices weren't keeping you with the series either. Looking up google docs for weapon trees isn't what fans like about MH. Spending minutes of preparation time getting ammo and bringing mixing mats for my bowgun into a quest only to realize I forgot to eat or bring cool drinks and being forced to restart the quest isn't what was keeping me with the series. Instantly popping a psychoserum to immediately see where the monster is isn't what keeps fans with the series. Running around the map scouring zones for the monster in case you forgot to bring psychoserums isn't what keeps fans with the series. MH needs, and has needed for a long time, a tutorial. A good tutorial. The handler is as good a way as any to ease in new players. You can't look at the handler as a veteran player and say you don't need that. Because she's not there for veteran players. She's there for new players and I have no doubt you can turn it off. The quality of life changes aren't taking away anything that fans are in love with. Meanwhile other quirky features still remain like cooking BBQ steaks with funny jingles.

The combat , at this series' core, is what keeps fans with the series and MH World has only improved it with additional moves and mobility and new ways to build meter for respective weapons. Monster behaviors have improved with more intricate food chain system. Monsters now actually fight each other instead of being baited into hitting each other. The environments are denser and have more interactivity beyond climbing and jumping attacks. And even the interactive spots in the environment and the monster fighting is optional. If you want to fight a monster with good ol combat instead of environmental trickery, you can still do that. There's just more additional options and strategies. More options is never a bad thing. Co-op is a huge draw for the series and drop in co-op will only better facilitate that.

MH Team has flubbed with new features before and the series has trucked on and maintained a loyal fanbase regardless. Underwater combat? Incredibly divisive with some players hating it and how it divided the level design and some players loving and mourning its omission. Apex predators who are invincible and immune to armor skills except for the use of wystones was terrible. Wystones in general were terrible. Locking said wystones and other gameplay features behind story quests was terrible. Charm farming. Hunter arts were a flub for me. The MH series has had so many new features bolted onto the skeleton that is original Monster Hunter and many of those features fell flat. MH World is the first time the MH team has made some really meaningful positive changes to the core gameplay.

This looks so damn good, I cannot wait for this!!! The last one I put 100+ hours into was Monster Hunter Freedom 2 on the PSP. Anybody know if there's PS4 Pro support?

Need a Jason reshoot when he gets better.

Hello, yes. I would like to purchase one Monster Hunter World, please. Thank y-... What? 2018?... Oh no...

I've never really grasped how people, in general, latched onto the Dark Souls series in all of its inscrutable glory yet largely bounced off of the Monster Hunter series despite really quite similar combat (and it's really nice to hear the GB crew admitting the similarities a few times lately).
Nevertheless, if this gets more people into the magic, I'm all for it! Just give me a bunch of monsters to hunt with a nice blend of old favourites and newcomers, and I'll do my part.

I agree with all of this. I'm not super into the scout flies (which you can disable I think) and how they seem to lead you everywhere but all other changes are for the better. The PS2 ass design of Monster Hunter really needed this retooling. As long as they don't compromise on depth and challenge it's going to be totally fine.

@jeff@brad Re: the holy trinity. There kind of is, and kind of isn't.

For healing, Gunners have Recov S ammo which you can use to heal teammates, but you can only carry a limited amount of ammo in general, and bringing it along is a hinderance to your combat performance, since you'd be giving up something. It's certainly there, and it's certainly useful especially for newer groups, but it isn't really to the same standard as a Priest in WoW, or a Mercy in Overwatch. There's the hunting horn, basically a club/bagpipes combo, that supplies a more formal support role, though it's more of a buffer/debuffer with a little bit of party healing, and it's really more icing on top of the weapon and not really what you should primarily be focusing on over actually dealing damage, since in the end monsters are beefy and you've got a time limit. There are items called health horns, which are horns you toot and heal anyone who can hear it, but those take inventory too, as they have a small chance of breaking on use. Also, so far there's been no sign of them in the footage that's been put out for MHW.

For tanking, you can certainly be a big beefy boy with high defense, and there are extremely defensive weapons such as the lance, but there hasn't really been a concept of aggro. It's more of a round robin situation where the monster will take a swing at everyone, and your opportunities to heal and sharpen are while it's cycling between you and your group. As someone else in the comments mentioned, there's the challenger mantle that's new and specifically captures the monster's attention, but from what I've learned about them, they seem a bit limited in duration, and then go on a cooldown of unknown length. It might be totally viable to pass aggro between two people, alternating cooldowns, but we don't know enough yet. Still, it might be useful in an emergency scenario where someone's getting worked and you want to give them breathing room.

Beyond that, there's more of a focus on damage type roles. Slashing provided by the likes of great and long swords is incredibly useful for parts collection, while impact breaks off certain parts and can KO monsters, opening them up to the party going ham.

That said, there are tons of more self centered roles. The insect glaive, for instance, can give the user damage up, speed up, and defense/knockback up, as well as a bit of self healing. The SnS allows you to use items without sheathing, which greatly helps keep you mobile and prepared to strike. As mentioned, there are shield classes that are extremely tanky.

Arekkz said they told him that they tuned everything down for gamescom. Less health, less damage, less time. I assume the same is the case for these other viewings. We're talking about demos, 6+ months before release, being shown to games press that has at best an hour to play around with the game, and most likely has zero prior experience with the franchise.

A Monster Hunter game I can rope my friends into, finally!

@alucitary:

I guess some things just aren't fur you. But there's no claws for alarm, you'll be able to button through the dialogue without getting too hissed off!

@zeik: Yeah, the lance for instance could be considered a "tanking" weapon, since you have a big shield to hide behind. And in the past there have been armor skills that decrease or increase your aggro ("Sneak" and "Taunt"). So you can sorta play a "tanking role" that way--and the hunting horn with its songs lets you play a "support" role--but that particular aspect hasn't been something the series has emphasized a lot. It's more just that certain weapons have their strengths and weaknesses, and some are better or worse for certain monsters.

The disgusting things I would do just to play a demo of this build.

I like them, they are weird little guys that solo players like me use often and I found they are extremely helpful in picking up items for you. They will always be able to get a few more items off nodes since you are limited to how many picks and nets you have. They can buff you and get gain aggro to assist you in a fight and I don't know how many times a Cat has gotten the last hit on a big monster right when my blades get dull and I have no more whetstones.

So you've never eaten food at a chefs place in any MH or used the Palico garden in PSP game ? There seems to be alot of mechanics that palicos are involved in. Have you never done the Cat quests in generations? Cats never run out of node tools so they can harvest until a node is done. I don't know, they've always been nice additions to the game and when I found that generations lets you bring two to a fight it was a very welcome change.

Two reasons I can think of off the top of my head. The first is just the hardware factor; Monster Hunter games have been mostly on handhelds, which western audiences just aren't all that into in general. Hard to sell someone on the idea of buying a new system just to play one game.

The other thing is that Dark Souls has a whole world exploration and lore thing going. Those worlds are gorgeous and fascinating. Monster Hunter, by contrast, has been graphically underwhelming due to handheld hardware restrictions, and there's no cool exploration aspect. It's just a boss grinding mill.

Don't get me wrong, I love both series. Been playing since MHFU and Demon's Souls (or King's Field, actually, if you want to count that). But I can see why someone would latch on to one and not the other.

That said, there does seem to be significant overlap in the fandom. People who like one of these series tend to like the other when they get around to trying it. There are some articles around teh interwebs that describe just that phenomenon of liking one leading to a liking of the other, like this one:

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/15/how-dark-souls-finally-made-me-understand-monster-hunter-2

Neither here nor there but I just got the japanese eshop cards for MHXX as I am weak. :( Don't know if this is sending Capcpom the right or wrong message. (or if they'll even get any sort of message from it at all).

If anyone else here is as crazy as I am I wouldn't mind grouping up. Keep in mind I like these games a lot but am no hardcore esportz level fan.

I made a huge mistake.

PSA: Excessive energy drink consumption will give you kidney stones

"The stationary nature of the bowgun, for example, was always the biggest turn-off of that weapon for me"

It was a good thing. You had to learn to position yourself and when to take your shots to not eat a monster attack to the face. That compensated it being a ranged weapon with which you were in much less danger than a melee. With these changes, it's much safer.

"I'm pretty sure the developers have said the reason for the increased mobility is because the lack of zones means there's no longer safe places to escape to for a breather"

That's, with all due respect to the devs, bull. There are always safe spaces to run to for a breather. Especially multiplayer. You just need to be careful. Not so much anymore since you can just cancel out of it.

"I'm perfectly okay with ditching paintballs, because they were kind of dumb inventory clutter"

That's the point. You can always ditch the paintballs. But then you wouldn't be able to track the monster, but you could still find it on your own. It is a choice you made between an inventory space and the time saving of not having to find the monster.

"I actually love the idea of using actual animal tracking techniques, like footprints, to find your target."

I do too. But this isn't that. This is (again, from what I've seen), pressing A to fill a meter that eventually takes you to the location you need to go. Kinda like The Witcher 3. I really hope you can not use that.

"You also have to consider that this time around Rathalos is in the very first area of the game in seemingly some pretty low tier quests. So regardless of its rank or difficulty in previous games, that doesn't necessarily mean it holds the same tier in World. "

Brad in the video says that someone (I believe the devs) said that Rathalos is the apex predator of that map. Also, don't know how it is in Gen, got bored with it before I got to this point (Yes, I got bored of Gen very early on), but in other games, Rathalos is always mid-tier Low Rank. Rathian is usually the one you fight at the beginning and the first "real" monster you face.

"The archaic design choices weren't keeping you with the series either. Looking up google docs for weapon trees isn't what fans like about MH. Spending minutes of preparation time getting ammo and bringing mixing mats for my bowgun into a quest only to realize I forgot to eat or bring cool drinks and being forced to restart the quest isn't what was keeping me with the series. Instantly popping a psychoserum to immediately see where the monster is isn't what keeps fans with the series. "

It is what keeps me going back. Because at the end of the day, Monster Hunter is a game about learning. Learning patterns, learning the weapon trees, learning what kinds of ammo to use, learning to pay attention to what items you bring and to always make sure to have your inventory well managed and your buffs eaten. And learning monster's positions so you don't have to have a space for psychoserum, as well. Also, as I said in the previous reply, it was a choice you had to make. Inventory space/hassle of taking it out of the box or combining it versus ease to find the monster. It was a crutch that eventually you could let go of. This game doesn't seem to have you make these kind of choices.

"If you want to fight a monster with good ol combat instead of environmental trickery, you can still do that."

But then I have to do it solo, since everyone else will be doing this Cirque du Soleil stuff. Not that I mind, since I played on PSP and 3DS, I'm pretty much used to solo play.

"The combat , at this series' core, is what keeps fans with the series and MH World has only improved it with additional moves and mobility and new ways to build meter for respective weapons."

It also makes the combat easier. A crude analogy would be making a new Dark Souls game, only that it plays like God of War. Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

"MH World is the first time the MH team has made some really meaningful positive changes to the core gameplay."

Your opinion, not mine.

That's kind of the point. You can't really not compromise the depth and challenge while making these quality of life improvements. A good part of the challenge for using MH's weapons is that the weapons are slow and you are locked in the animations. If they are now fast and you can cancel the attacks, you won't get his as much as you once did.

Maybe that's the case. I'm going only from what I see. It still seems far too easy, even for a demo, though.

What platform would Monster Hunter: Y'all be on?

@negativegray: I get the point of making the bowgun stationary, but I never found it a fun weapon to use. You may not like that change, but I do.

The problem with paintballs wasn't so much that it used up inventory space, is that it was a barely utilized use of space that felt half-assed. You mark the monster when you find it and then it's basically a worthless waste of space. It was a mechanic that never added anything to the game for me. It was just kinda there, because they needed a way to keep track of monsters and they didn't have any better ideas apparently. This new scout fly mechanic is not perfect, but it is a way more interesting idea to have in the game and I hope they continue to refine it in the future, much like a lot of ideas they have implemented over the years that started out less than perfect.

Rathalos is an apex predator of that map, yes, the very first map in the game, full of low tier monsters. Also considering we have yet to see any see any sign of a Rathian it's very possible the Rathalos has simply taken its place as the low tier dragon of the game. It's also possible the developers were only talking in regards to the demo map, meaning the hierarchy right now is as simple as Great Jagras < Anjanath < Rathalos, which we have already seen in action. Until the game is out this is all conjecture.

Also as was mentioned, everything was apparently tuned down for the demo, not to mention full sets of gear and weapons before even fighting them the first time, so there's that too. Although I can't imagine it was a lot, considering what I've seen hasn't been that different than my experiences with previous Monster Hunter's. You get 4 people wailing on those low tier monsters and the fights are an absolute joke.

For Jeff: When the hunts get harder later in the games, you will need teamwork to survive.

Not in a 'you need a microphone' type of way, but through natural understanding of the situation.

You will have people who are in danger of dying that you'll want to try and save, and support items. Weapons can probably still interrupt your own teammates when used carelessly. And some monsters will likely be much easier to deal with if someone places a trap and the whole team lures the monster in it, or if you have a gunner to shoot it out of the air. You can decide to go for the tail or to survive, and in this game you can even make a strategic retreat to base camp to switch weapons for a different approach.

Get well soon Jason.

Game looks awesome, great to see this is still Monster Hunter. Sounds like it won't change Jeff's mind though.

I've been a fan of this series since MHFU and I really like that they're showing damage now. I also like anything that will make this game more streamlined for newcomers. I remember when 4U came out and people unanimously agreed it was the easiest game to get into and that if you wanted to play MH "now was the time". With this new game coming out, I think it will also be a "now is the time" scenario.

PLAY MONSTER HUNTER, PEOPLE!

@negativegray: Nah man that's not it at all! What you see in this video is similar to the demos you got of Monster Hunter where all of your gear was picked for you.

I guarantee we'll still have to build and craft our gear to best suit the battle. This game is going to be GREAT

This is genuinely one of those occasions when I feel like after this comes out, I won't need to buy another game "ever again." I cannot wait for this.

I want this fucking game.

I only played a few hours of tri, but this looks like it's going to be a very important game. Hope they keep that feudal tropical Japan + fantasy vibe going and don't westernize the setting too much. Good to see the cats are still a thing. The goofiness is good.

I don't think I hated a game more than Monster Hunter (the PSP version). It's one of three games I have ever returned. MH fans hear enough reasons why people dislike the games, so I'm not going to shit all over it.

With that said, knowing what I know now about this series, what to expect, and how it's being structured not to be this nebulous hot mess; this looks so much better and interesting. I would like to see Brad and Jason try a feature when it comes out.

I just hope it has length. Like, MH4U length, not padded-ass Generations length.

Oh, this really is Monster Hunter.

I cannot wait for the PC version, finally a Monster Hunter I can hopefully get into.

I really enjoyed what I played of Generations (haven't ever tried to get into one before then), but it being on a handheld with those cramped controls and muddy graphics was what broke me from truly getting into it. Hoping this game is a sign of things to come and they don't go straight back to handhelds after this one.

Something about the ui and menus upon menus seems very unappealing to me there seems to be way too much ui bloat and clicking through menus non stop has never been fun to me. Im confused when people say how much organization taking down a monster is, sharpening weapons and healing yourself mid battle isn't exactly strategic but it has always seemed monster hunter fans think there game is way harder than every game and assume everyone is an idiot. It looks like an older game graphically too and I thought from e3 it was supposed to look better.

I was looking forward to this but there seems to be nothing different than every other game that drowns you in menus and text unnecessarily.

The combat always looked like it lacked feedback, which is not uncommon to hear from people who aren't into MH games but it's also not uncommon to hear about in Japanese RPGs. You tend to just dance around in front of enemies and damage happens.

Dark Souls gave a ton of feedback per attack, except on occasions where targets would shrug off hits. Dragon's Dogma also did a good job of this most of the time.

I really am intrigued by the idea of heavy prep, a long fight, and getting good loot. But I'm not sure I'm going to be into the combat nor am I sure I want to do this solo since I can already tell none of my friends are going to bother with this game.

I find it perplexing that people (Jeff & Brad and many other game journalists) keep acting like this is the first time it's been on consoles in a while as if the Wii and Wii-U games don't exist. *sigh*

Having played the first psp game for 10+ hours and walking away in frustration, then recently playing it on an emulator with a second analogue stick made me realize that my problems with Monster Hunter's were all quality of life issues.

I'm far more interested now that they put in a second stick, on a tv, with items management/UI tweaks.

Dammit, I think I might be interested in this.

This standard for Capcom. They only moved to Nintendo at all because that is where the Japanese playerbase was. Those who played on the PSP share your pain

@alucitary: I know folks that mainly play as Palico for their flexibility. The cuteness isnt for everyone, but this will never be "grim-dark" serious like Dark Souls.

@negativegray: I can understand your frustration but for the vast majority of players the hardcore sim of gather/prep/eat, and then can you fight, is too much time to get to the fun. Im sure the G Mode will still require a good bit of setup. But always hated having to take missions where all I did was spend 20 mins gathering herbs and honey.Im glad to see that while chasing the hunt target I can run and harvest nodes. From even this short video the Rath fight had whole lot less of the tutorial chatter. Anything is than pages of NPC dialog in town, that you forget by the time its useful

I heard some negative things about Generations so I was hesitant and waited a long time to get it too but I have been pleasantly surprised. The hunting styles/arts can really change up the gameplay if you want and some of them are really fun. Some say it's too easy overall and they may be right but I've still been enjoying it a lot. They added some nice particle effects and graphical touches/updates.

There are some really boring collect-a-thon village quests early on to grind through. Unfortunately no G rank and high rank village quests are limited but there's plenty of high rank stuff in the multiplayer hub (which can be played alone of course). Overall I recommend it, not as good as 4U but some nice little changes and it's pretty cheap now too.

Just because they haven't announced XX for North America yet doesn't mean it won't happen.
They still have Monster Hunter Stories coming out on 3DS in North America soon.

@ripelivejam: There's literary a Monster Hunter game coming to 3DS in 2 weeks.

From what I've seen of this out of Gamescom and before, they've seemed to have gone well beyond what I expected they would ever go to make it more in-line with other "modern" videogames, it's a nice surprise.

Having voiced tutorials, letting you join a quest in-progress, removing the loading screens between zones (which could help seperate each zone from another, but also often got super annoying when fighting next to the edge of one). The paintball mechanic being gone and tracking of monsters getting reworked. The menu system getting a facelift and the song that plays while you cook meat being shortened, the list goes on.

It's all stuff I'm generally down for them to streamline, or find a better solution for but I hope that some part of the core "preparation" aspect remains intact. Moving just a little bit while doing things like healing is fine too, because a lot of people probably feel like they lose too much control of the character if an action roots them firmly in place. But in that case I'm also a little bit worried that it'll turn out like Dark Souls, though which went further and further in that direction until it changed the combat to a degree to which I didn't enjoy it as much.

Either way I really hope that the series will do well like this, as a proper big console game. I really want this to be the future of the Monster Hunter series. The game whihc subsequent entries build upon.

I first tried getting into Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii and *HATED IT*.

I left it alone for about a half year.

Then tried it again, got into it, and found maybe my favorite game ever made.

I haven't played a Monster Hunter since because I don't own a WiiU and am not interested in playing Monster Hunter on a hand-held. I am so incredibly excited for this game. It looks like everything I've always wanted this game to be.

CORRECTIONS!

• You can definitely manage aggro in these games!
  In fact this entry into the series introduces capes; which allow you to wear a bright cape to get a monsters attention or a sneaky cape to hide from it.
  
  
• There are definitely weapons and gear that allow you to take on specific roles.
  The Hunting Horn allows the user to pull off specific combos to play notes and conduct songs which give buffs to allies. The gun weapons can debuff the monster. Hammers can stun and knock monsters out so the big damage dealer can get in an get a ton of DPS.
  It's not the standard Healer, Tank, DPS; and that's what makes it so awesome.
  
  
• Some of the more manager-y aspect of the series, like sharpening whetstones or crafting ammo for your gun in the middle of a fight, are generally included to make the fights more than a button-mash fest by introducing risk-reward moments. While the monster is down, do you wail on it with your semi-sharp sword, or do you take a moment to back off and sharpen up?

As a Co-Op game, my experience with Monster Hunter has basically been "Do your thing, don't fuck up too much and know how to stay out of the way from other hunters". Sometimes you can use support items to heal teammates or pull aggro off of them, but it's not an integral part of the general experience.

Depending on your weapon, you may have a different part of the monster that it's more beneficial for you to be attacking. Hammers being able to stun a monster if you get enough head hits in for example. So knowing where people will want to claim as "their area" and not getting in the way, while also being ready to take advantage of any opportunity that you yourself or your teammates create for the team to do big damage is the keyt to victory in Co-Op MoHun.

I've never played a Monster Hunter game, but now I reallywant a "Monster Hunter Y'All."

Go git them varmits!