Since Colors and Generations were so great, do you guys think Sega can keep it up? I hope so, Sonic deserves more good modern games.

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

I don't think he'll ever have as major of a role as he once had, but the latest games have been pretty good. Plus Sonic Adventure 2 HD comes out next week.

I didn't play Colors, but Generations was just a "not awful" game, but great. I think we need to just let Sonic die. I liked him back in the Genesis days...

The sonic fanbase creeps me out. I blame the internet for my current distrust of the franchise more than the games themselves

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Based on Colors, the latter.

I'm going to be able to download Sonic Adventure 2 Battle on Xbox soon so I'm all Sonic fan again. He wasn't bad in Smash Bros either but I just hope they can make a good new one again someday. Soonish.

I think Sonic, and in turn the games, are fromage different time. I'm not sure he will ever be "back". I think nostalgia can go a long way, but I think that style of platforming is too dated.

No!

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

i think people gave generations way too much credit. it was merely not bad. sonic can stay around because i guess some people still care but lord knows it's never going to be like it was before the dreamcast again. sega can make their money, i can live with the memories

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

I don't know about Colors, but Generations is legitimately fantastic. And I say this as someone who has hated practically everything they've done with the franchise since Adventure 2.

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

@FluxWaveZ said:

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

No, and he never will be. I made the mistake of going back and playing a bit of Sonic Adventure 2 like a month ago, and man does that game not hold up in any reasonable sense. That being said, I hear that both Colors and Generations have the advantage of not being utterly terrible pieces of garbage like Sonic 2006, so there was really nowhere to go but up.

Just because it is not shit doesn't mean that it is good.

@Ley_Lines said:

@iAmJohn said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

He meant to say "Sonic R". The best sonic game with the best soundtrack.

That is an acceptable answer, if for no other reason than Sonic R represents a time when even the shittiest Sonic games had redeeming qualities (like that fucking soundtrack, omg).

No, Sonic was good on the Dreamcast at launch, but that hasn't aged well. No, Sonic has not been awesome since Sonic 2. Let's just admit it, he never really was back.

Generations was very good. A 4/5 for me. I haven't played Colors so I can't comment. The problem with Generations was that it relied so hard on nostalgia that I have no idea what another console Sonic game would actually look like. The gameplay is certainly better in Generations. It is probably the best 3D Sonic game that has been released. But it certainly wasn't perfect. I also don't know what they would add to that formula that would make it better.

In terms of Sega has a company, they just need to survive. Sonic may not be a part of that formula.

no

I am really sleepy and I misread the title as "Is Sonic Black?" I am no longer interested in this topic.

Sonic was never good to begin with.

I thought the title of the thread was "Is Sonic Black?".

I am disappointed. Either way, for now I am going to refer to Sonic the Hedgehog as an African American video game protagonist.

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Exactly this. Amidst the pile of crap, two alright games seem to outshine (and easily so) the rest of the sonic stuff. When OP said is sonic 'back'? No, that's exactly the problem, he never left.

If the people that turned on Sonic didn't like Generations they are gone forever. There has been far too many conflicting opinions on what the "fans" want. The people that want the Mega Drive games got that... and better in both those games, the people that want a game like Adventure (people that are fucking nuts) got a refined version of the best parts of Unleashed.

Sonic is never going to get the same level of acceptance he once got, the gaming landscape has changed. There is never going to be that Tomb Raider-like rebirth. I like old Sonic and I like the 3D sections in those games. Why? not some loyalty to all of the hideous story bullshit and bad platforming, but because they are pure fun... video games that are fucking video games. The joy I get from holding down that boost button and doing one of those levels is rarely matched. The people that want the 2D stuff need to just let go and understand that trying to recapture the feeling they had playing the games they did as kids is pointless.

Generations and Colours are fantastic, truly great games with amazing level and art design, not to mention amazing soundtracks. (even some of the shit games have amazing music) I don't care for any of the story stuff and it has gotten pretty easy to ignore all of the people that simply pass off the games as trash, because I'm quite certain a ton of those people haven't touched a Sonic game in years. There was a bad patch, but how many series that run that long don't? I know I like them and that's all that matters.

Sonic 4 episode 2 was a HUGE step backwards.

fuck sonic.

I never played Sonic 4 so I can't comment on that. But I though Sonic Colors and Generations were actually great, not just better than the shitty games like Sonic 06.

The problem with Sonic is no one really knows what to do with him anymore. The whole "run as fast as you can" gimmick was really only impressive back when it was showing off the power of the Sega Genesis (real-time loading I believe is what they were showing off). Since Sonic has lost that as a unique feature, he doesn't really have anything going for him. So, the developers tried too hard to make him relevant (oh he's a Warewolf now, oh he adventures in Arthurian time, etc...).

Besides, Colours was just okay, and Generations doesn't really count since all it was doing was tapping into the Nostalgia of the fanbase. Quite a few people loved the game purely because it had classic Sonic in it (some even wished new Sonic wasn't in it at all).

They never released another Sonic game after S&K.;

I mean, why would they go 3D or any of that junk? That's insane!

@iAmJohn said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

Sonic Rush and its sequel are great games, so I don't know what the heck you're on about.

i think sonic rush was reasonable. not as good as the genesis games though

@Snail said:

@iAmJohn said:

@FluxWaveZ said:

@FLStyle said:

@Tarsier said:

were those games actually 'great' or were they just OK compared to the rest of the crap theyve been churning out?

Barely OK at that. The Sonic games will never reach Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles and CD.

I preferred Sonic Rush to most of those, so whatever.

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

Sonic Rush and its sequel are great games, so I don't know what the heck you're on about.

Sonic Rush is great; Sonic Rush Adventure is worse in every conceivable way. Saying that any of them compare to the Genesis-era stuff is just crazy.

@iAmJohn: How is Sonic Rush Adventure worse?! It only adds the boat sequences, which were OK. Even if you didn't like them, they weren't that nagging, and happened like what? Four times?

Sonic is like that college friend, where other friends have moved on, got married, started families and so forth. He's still there, ready to do a keg stand whenever you are ready.

I thought Sonic Colours was really fun and though Generations, mostly, was a fantastic game. Although I even enjoyed Sonic 4: Episode 2, Episode 1 was passable, and thought it was a great game.

Sonic dosent work great in 3d, although I have an odd love for the Sonic and Tails section of Adventure, but when he comes back to 2d I still think Sonic is a solid formula.

@iAmJohn said:

Sonic Rush is great; Sonic Rush Adventure is worse in every conceivable way. Saying that any of them compare to the Genesis-era stuff is just crazy.

You sure nostalgia isn't clouding your perception?

I thought generations was really good, to be honest. I never completed it because the final boss fuckin sucked, but it was still really good.

Sonic will never be "back" because they just play to their fanbase (kids, actual fans and ...sonic weirdos) now.

@Pazy said:

Sonic dosent work great in 3d, although I have an odd love for the Sonic and Tails section of Adventure, but when he comes back to 2d I still think Sonic is a solid formula.

It's cool that you're not into the 3D stuff, but I really don't understand what a lot of people hate about those sections. I feel like people are approaching them wrong...like a platformer. They're races. If the main character was replaced by anything else I don't think people would get so hung up on it. If they added in an autolog-like feature what you'd end up with is SSX style races to compete against other people with.

I really feel like they need to ditch the 2D at this point (and I adore that stuff) Centre the whole game around speed runs and beating others times. 'Splosion man, Trials, SSX, NFS etc etc show that stuff really works. But well Sonic, people hate Sonic for being Sonic. It's a shame as I think a lot of people are missing out.

@Snail said:

@iAmJohn: How is Sonic Rush Adventure worse?! It only adds the boat sequences, which were OK. Even if you didn't like them, they weren't that nagging, and happened like what? Four times?

The boat sequences, the having to grind for materials, the serious downgrade to the soundtrack (why they didn't get Hideki Naganuma to do Rush Adventure's soundtrack is beyond me), the super crappy Chaos Emerald jetski races, the story sections that somehow managed to drag on even longer than those in Sonic Rush where they were already one of the worst parts of said game, the levels that over-relied on gimmicks and minigames instead of doing anything to improve the "hold right and boost to win" gameplay of the first one, the fact that it still uses bad Dimps physics so the game more or less breaks if you're not boosting, Marine the shitty and annoying Australian caricature Raccoon... About the only thing SRA did better was the boss battles, all of which were excellent. It's still an okay game, but it should've been better.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@iAmJohn said:

Sonic Rush is great; Sonic Rush Adventure is worse in every conceivable way. Saying that any of them compare to the Genesis-era stuff is just crazy.

You sure nostalgia isn't clouding your perception?

Yes, because they're excellent, incredibly creative platformers whereas Sonic Rush is not.

@iAmJohn said:

@Snail said:

@iAmJohn: How is Sonic Rush Adventure worse?! It only adds the boat sequences, which were OK. Even if you didn't like them, they weren't that nagging, and happened like what? Four times?

The boat sequences, the having to grind for materials, the serious downgrade to the soundtrack (why they didn't get Hideki Naganuma to do Rush Adventure's soundtrack is beyond me), the super crappy Chaos Emerald jetski races, the story sections that somehow managed to drag on even longer than those in Sonic Rush where they were already one of the worst parts of said game, the levels that over-relied on gimmicks and minigames instead of doing anything to improve the "hold right and boost to win" gameplay of the first one, the fact that it still uses bad Dimps physics so the game more or less breaks if you're not boosting, Marine the shitty and annoying Australian caricature Raccoon... About the only thing SRA did better was the boss battles, all of which were excellent. It's still an okay game, but it should've been better.

@FluxWaveZ said:

@iAmJohn said:

Sonic Rush is great; Sonic Rush Adventure is worse in every conceivable way. Saying that any of them compare to the Genesis-era stuff is just crazy.

You sure nostalgia isn't clouding your perception?

Yes, because they're excellent, incredibly creative platformers whereas Sonic Rush is not.

I won't argue with that, because I haven't played that game in years and honestly don't remember having a bad time with the things you just mentioned.

And you're really putting the original Sonic games on a pedestal. I mean, yes, they're great games and I still have fun playing them today, but what makes you say that Sonic Rush isn't creative in comparison to the Genesis Sonic games?

I really, genuinely enjoyed Generations a whole lot. It definitely tickled the right nostalgia spots in my brain, even if I'd not played all the (later) titles it was harking back to.

@Snail: The thing I've always loved about Classic Sonic is the push and pull between careful platforming and breakneck speed. They're games where you will have to stop and you will have to take your time with platforming or you will screw up and be punished for it, and where the speed is a reward for careful play. They're also games designed around exploration that reward you for fully grasping the layouts of levels, whether its small bonuses like being able to get gigantic score boosts for getting all the rings in a level or CD and 3K's full use of the idea with the time travel and hidden Special Stage rings. Only by mastering those games does that "never not running" gameplay enter the equation, and it often requires split-second timing that can only come from truly knowing those levels and those specific physics (which neither Dimps nor Sonic Team have ever been able to replicate since). Sonic Rush skips all that and goes right to the "hold right to win" step, except they add the boost so there's even less platforming or avoidance work to be done.

For what it is, Sonic Rush is totally fine. Hell it's more than fine, it's a great goddamn game and has one ofthe bestsoundtracks inrecent memory. Most of my problems with the game, aside from its bad story and Dimps physics, are purely idealogical, since it's basically the point where Sega fully embraced the idea that people's entire investment in Sonic is that the level design and strong mechanics don't matter so long as Sonic is going ridiculously fast because that's all people care about. They keep getting closer to finding that balance again (the travesty that was Sonic 4 withstanding), but Sonic Rush reinforced Sega's worst qualities of missing the forest for the trees and over-relying on "Sonic runs fast" to define the gameplay instead of refining and building upon the platforming mechanics that were the reason people loved those original games in the first place; I think it's kind of telling that it took them until Generations (and arguably Colors, though I haven't played it) to finally get somewhere close to that balance instead of simply being about holding forward and boost, ala both the Rush games and Sonic Unleashed.

TL;DR 'Splosion Man and Ms. 'Splosion Man are better and truer Sonic games than Sonic Rush.

I thought this was going to be a thread about that Sonic dude who trolls the forums. I'm now disappointed

I actually think Sonic is worse now.

• The game use more or less the same character model which happens to be a crappy one and be poorly animated. (why does Sonic walk?!)
• The cutscenes are horrible.
• The gameplay is terrible, the game makers chose to ignore everything good about any Sonic title in the past and focus on the superficial (speed) and the worst elements (blind QTE, trial and error).

Figures how this translates into "Sonic is back" on online forums. My worst fear as a Sonic fan has evidently come true, and I think I actually just barely saw it coming. The games I like the least are considered masterpieces, whereas Sonic is a laughing stock and I tended to like those titles for what they were. It was simply a matter of putting 2 and 2 together... for Sonic to ever be popular again, I would have to despise it. Sonic Rush was a huge red flag.

p.s. Sonic 4 Ep 1 is a great game.

I thought the modern Sonic sections in Generations were better than the classic ones.

Generations, Rush and Colours were not good games. Better than the rest of the crap they've been releasing for the past decade, but still not particularly good games.

Sonic 4 was marketed as the "return of classic Sonic gameplay" and they even managed to screw that up. There's really nothing else they can do with the series, just let it die.