South Park: The Fractured but Whole's difficulty slider changes the colour of your skin

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dafdiego777

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poobumbutt

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#2  Edited By poobumbutt

Yeah... okay, that's pretty good. This reminds me of when South Park was actually really good at offensive humor and biting commentary at the same time, rather than completely separating them. Still don't think I'll have time to make room for this on release, but hey! One can hope.

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somamilk

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Wow look at that some heavy handed political commentary, well looks like all the trans posts in splatoon 2 and this are the way of the future.

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Nodima

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@somamilk said:

Wow look at that some heavy handed political commentary, well looks like all the trans posts in splatoon 2 and this are the way of the future.

More like the way of South Park since 2004 or so.

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BoccKob

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What race is orange supposed to be?

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Jesus_Phish

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#7  Edited By Jesus_Phish

I'm already seeing things on Twitter about how playing as a minority character is a worse version of the game. I'd rather wait to see what the final version of the game is instead of jumping to conclusions but thats just me.

That's not how Twitter works though. You need to have your 47 entry long tweet essay on the go already.

Twitter - the ultimate place for long form discussion.

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Quarters

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#8  Edited By Quarters

I'm not one for overt political commentary or South Park, but that made even me chuckle a bit.

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Fear_the_Booboo

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On one hand I think it's funny, on the other hand I think making the game harder/potentially shittier for people that just want to make a character that looks like themselves somewhat lame. It kinda reinforces the idea it's supposed to be mocking.

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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I don't know what to think of this. Every time South Park/Trey & Matt makes a political comment it just comes across as kind of mocking in the end. Like they acknowledge an issue, but they don't take any proper stance and it just comes across as bad to me. And I get that's all Trey and Matt do. They mock everything. I get it, but I'm tired of it honestly. They have never been THAT clever in the first place. I've said it before but South Park was at its peak when it was just gross out humor and edgy swearing, ie the first 3-4 seasons.

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WheresDerrick

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I have a feeling this doesn't actually affect the difficulty at all. It likely changes a few conversations as evidenced by picking to play as a girl, the game has dialogue about retconning Stick of Truth (since you could only play as a boy in that one).

The fact Cartman straight up says it doesn't affect combat gives me the impression this isn't an actual difficulty slider but just a joke.

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OMGFather

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That's pretty great.

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Atlas

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#13  Edited By Atlas

@fear_the_booboo said:

On one hand I think it's funny, on the other hand I think making the game harder/potentially shittier for people that just want to make a character that looks like themselves somewhat lame. It kinda reinforces the idea it's supposed to be mocking.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel as well. It's a really funny gag, but what's the point of telling a joke if the act of telling it enforces the problem you're supposedly mocking? That's not satire, it's just more marginalisation.

@boonsong said:

I don't know what to think of this. Every time South Park makes a political comment it just comes across as kind of mocking in the end. Like they acknowledge an issue, but they don't take any proper stance and it just comes across as bad to me. And I get that's all Trey and Matt do. They mock everything. I get it, but I'm tired of it honestly. They have never been THAT clever in the first place. I've said it before but South Park was at its peak when it was just gross out humor and edgy swearing, ie the first 3-4 seasons.

I disagree on the last part - earlier South Park was much sharper in its satire - but I totally agree with the rest of what you said. I adored South Park as a teenager, and defended it as a show that mocks everyone equally, but then I grew up and decided that I believed in something, which is something that Trey and Matt, two shitty Libertarians, clearly never did. That said, I did really enjoy The Stick of Truth, so I'm torn on the new game.

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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@wheresderrick: It says in the article it changes the amount of money you get plus the way people talk to you. I have no idea how much of an impact any of that will have, probably none, which is even more lame. If they want to make the joke fucking go for it, don't just half-ass it.

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rethla

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@fear_the_booboo: No it doesnt because

a. harder is not shittier

b. Its the same for people that wants a challenge and wanna look like themself.

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donchipotle

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The hysterical reactions to this are funnier than the show's last season. This sort of thing is pretty much on the nose as far as South Park goes and it's great,

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shivermetimbers

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#18  Edited By shivermetimbers

Oh, so the game is a tasteful interpretation on race relations and white privilege? Oh, it's just a one-off joke making fun of PoCs hardships.

Come at me...

Edit: Before you come at me, know that I'm not offended. It's not my duty to deem something as racist. It's just this is a game where the main super hero character is a racial slur. Think about that for a moment.

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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@boonsong said:

I don't know what to think of this. Every time South Park makes a political comment it just comes across as kind of mocking in the end. Like they acknowledge an issue, but they don't take any proper stance and it just comes across as bad to me. And I get that's all Trey and Matt do. They mock everything. I get it, but I'm tired of it honestly. They have never been THAT clever in the first place. I've said it before but South Park was at its peak when it was just gross out humor and edgy swearing, ie the first 3-4 seasons.

I disagree on the last part - earlier South Park was much sharper in its satire - but I totally agree with the rest of what you said. I adored South Park as a teenager, and defended it as a show that mocks everyone equally, but then I grew up and decided that I believed in something, which is something that Trey and Matt, two shitty Libertarians, clearly never did. That said, I did really enjoy The Stick of Truth, so I'm torn on the new game.

You're right, South Park always was satire, but as you say it was so much sharper or just so much more clever in the earlier seasons. It also wasn't, or didn't feel as much of an in-your-face kind of thing. Watching the later South Park seasons I just find myself rolling my eyes at everything because it's just not that witty.

And to be honest I guess most of this comes down to politics. I just cannot stand centrists. That said I still like Trey and Matt. Early seasons of South Park are some of the funniest shit I've seen. Orgazmo and Cannibal! The Musical are two of my favorite comedies, and I played through and liked Stick of Truth though it was short and easy as shit.

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Redhotchilimist

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Yeah that's pretty funny.

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Pezen

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That's pretty stupid from a variety of reasons. But then, I always saw South Park as something that tries to make everything a joke, whether it works or not.

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RetroMetal

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#23  Edited By RetroMetal
@boonsong said:

I don't know what to think of this. Every time South Park/Trey & Matt makes a political comment it just comes across as kind of mocking in the end. Like they acknowledge an issue, but they don't take any proper stance and it just comes across as bad to me. And I get that's all Trey and Matt do. They mock everything. I get it, but I'm tired of it honestly. They have never been THAT clever in the first place. I've said it before but South Park was at its peak when it was just gross out humor and edgy swearing, ie the first 3-4 seasons.

This, all day.

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officer_falcon

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I love the idea. Also gives me a neat incentive to have multiple playthroughs.

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cmblasko

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Seems pretty funny to me, but I can see why people might not like it.

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Milkman

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#26  Edited By Milkman

My first thought about this was that it's pretty funny but I've seen some really weird reactions to it. Like I've seen people (mostly GamerGate types) saying things like "lol, the SJWs are gonna be pissed about this one!", which makes me really wonder what they think the joke is? I hope that the joke in execution within the actual game makes the intent a little clearer because it seems like something that can be misconstrued in a number of ways.

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shivermetimbers

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#27  Edited By shivermetimbers

@milkman said:

My first thought about this was that it's pretty funny but I've seen some really weird reactions to it. Like I've seen people (mostly GamerGate types) saying things like "lol, the SJWs are gonna be pissed about this one!", which makes me really wonder what they think the joke is? I hope that the joke in execution within the actual game makes the intent a little clearer because it seems like something that can misconstrued a number of ways.

Alright, I'm gonna go all in here. Pray for me.

That reaction is what Trey and Matt want. South Park's whole philosophy from the get go is that "everyone" deserves to be offended and if you are offended it's 'haha! what easily offended losers! haha!' That's the kind of audience they're going for here. The people who punch down and love to troll others. I'm sorry guys, that's the truth here.

I'm not particularly mad about it either. I just kinda find it sad in a way. But if South Park is your cup of tea and you don't mind its interpretation of whatever it's satirizing, then go for it. It's whatever really.

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ShaggE

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@milkman: I've seen at least one comment imply that the joke is that racism doesn't actually exist, and that Trey and Matt are poking fun at people who think it does.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but every once in a while it really throws me with the mental gymnastics people will use to validate their own views.

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huntad

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Well ok then. That's something.

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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@shivermetimbers: You're definitely right. I'm probably going to get shit for this but all I've ever gotten from what modern South Park is going for has just been the mocking of having a firm point of view. It's just pure nihilism at some point. Every issue presented is open for interpretation because the intent is not made clear enough, or not existing in the first place.

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Efesell

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Doesn't seem great but like whatever it's supremely on brand I guess.

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odinsmana

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#32  Edited By odinsmana

@shivermetimbers said:
@milkman said:

My first thought about this was that it's pretty funny but I've seen some really weird reactions to it. Like I've seen people (mostly GamerGate types) saying things like "lol, the SJWs are gonna be pissed about this one!", which makes me really wonder what they think the joke is? I hope that the joke in execution within the actual game makes the intent a little clearer because it seems like something that can misconstrued a number of ways.

Alright, I'm gonna go all in here. Pray for me.

That reaction is what Trey and Matt want. South Park's whole philosophy from the get go is that "everyone" deserves to be offended and if you are offended it's 'haha! what easily offended losers! haha!' That's the kind of audience they're going for here. The people who punch down and love to troll others. I'm sorry guys, that's the truth here.

I'm not particularly mad about it either. I just kinda find it sad in a way. But if South Park is your cup of tea and you don't mind its interpretation of whatever it's satirizing, then go for it. It's whatever really.

I don`t really agree with this. For one thing they do actually have pretty specific messages/things they satirize and when they don`t a lot of the time the message is often either extremes of all kinds are bad or here is a situation decide for yourself kinda thing. The quality of the show is not always consistent (especially lately) and when they don`t hit the mark it can come of as just being edgy and nihilistic or even just crass, but when the show is at it`s peak I do think it has some really good satire.

I have also seen a few criticism of the show in this thread being that it`s centrist or that it does not take a firm stance. I might be totally off the mark here, but I was wondering if this was an American politics thing? From my (fairly limited) understanding of american politics it seems to be very binary (at least as opposed to how it is here in Norway) with most issues either being one extreme or the other and a you either lover all these things or hate all these things attitude. I can see how a viewpoint in the middle is not well liked in those circumstances, but I can respect it.

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The_Nubster

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@rethla: Except it is because

a) harder might not be what people want out of the game and they might have to choose that if they want to look like themselves

b) being white and not being able to look like yourself is a mild inconvenience where being black and not being able to look like yourself is something that black people and many other minorities have been having to deal with since video games started, and forcing them into a harder difficulty just because they want to be properly represented is not the way to go about addressing that discrepency.

It seems like a dumb gag that they thought up and it doesn't do anything except poke fun at the surface-level of the issue of racism, without taking a hard stance one way or the other (and in doing so, just undercuts the very real struggle happening these days).

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deactivated-61356eb4a76c8

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That's hilarious. I'm interested in what else they've got lined up.

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kcin

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#35  Edited By kcin

This is a supremely white thing to do, targeted at a white audience, with the intention of showing white people the lived difficulties of blackness.

The irony of thinking this is a good idea is that this decision specifically affects black people looking to play as themselves. They don't need to learn this lesson, and hey you know what? Maybe they're hoping to turn to a cartoon video game for a little escape from everyday hardships.

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TheHT

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#36  Edited By TheHT

Ha, that's funny.

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WheresDerrick

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@kcin said:

This is a supremely white thing to do, targeted at a white audience, with the intention of showing white people the lived difficulties of blackness.

The irony of thinking this is a good idea is that this decision specifically affects black people looking to play as themselves. They don't need to learn this lesson, and hey you know what? Maybe they're hoping to turn to a cartoon video game for a little escape from everyday hardships.

Anyone with any awareness would know South Park is not the thing you go to to look for this

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Lazyimperial

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#38  Edited By Lazyimperial

@the_nubster: I like how your opinion is that when it comes to white people, not being represented in a game would apparently be a "mild inconvenience" unworthy of note, but heaven forbid the same situation unfold regarding black people. Double standards are great. You must have loved Mass Effect: Andromeda, a game that had to literally patch in the ability for player characters to be white (and hinted that any white people you met were genetically engineered designer babies, because people of European ancestry had long since disappeared from the galaxy. Their genetic traits bred out into irrelevancy, apparently, in a mere 150 years. We love you too, Manveer and Bioware Montreal. A mild inconvenience, indeed. Say hi to EA Motive for me). http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Human

On a more on-topic note, though... this sounds a lot like Trey and Matt. I'd also expect it to be a more libertarian approach, which is to say middle-of-the-road and equally sarcastic to both extremes. They've made fun of politically correct and politically incorrect people in the same breath, poked at American police while teasing Black Lives Matter groups, lampooned Trump with Garrison while portraying Hillary Clinton as an incompetent robot, made fun of Mormonism while chiding mainstream Christians for not recognizing the absurdity of religion in general, etc..

If you're looking for a heartfelt, empathic, pro-"whatever movement floats your boat" take on all the crazy drama in The United States... you're going to be disappointed. Remember Kim Kardashian and the "pro-choice" content of Stick of Truth? They're probably going to ham it up so much that reviewers at Vox will develop aneurisms (heck, I'm centrist and the last game's content made me gasp in shocked befuddlement. It was more irreverent than I had thought possible).

Edit addition: @odinsmana Yeah... American politics tends to view middle-of-the-road, moderate views as not views at all. A standard structure for South Park for the middle ten years or so (if not longer) was to portray both extremes in a snarky light, exaggerating their actual flaws for comedic effect, and then end on a kind of moral "well, the lesson to be learned is probably *middle*." Eventually the seasons got a bit nihilistic and dumped the lessons for a "everyone kind of sucks and all these sides are stupid... and that's it. Eh!" approach, but they've kind of shifted back to their old form a bit, which I'm fine with.

Of course, I'm probably fine with it because I'm a centrist too, which infuriates a decent number of my friends that expect me to either denounce all Republicans as corrupt, hypocritical, racist, capitalistic deplorables or denounce all Democrats as corrupt, hypocritical, racist, communist pricks. I just shrug. It's like watching two groups of tomatoes fight with each other because they each say the word differently.

So yeah, welcome to American politics. Tray and Matt not taking a political side is them taking a side. The WRONG SIDE. URGH!!! :-P

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deactivated-5b85a38d6c493

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@lazyimperial: I don't dislike Trey & Matt for taking a side, I dislike them for not taking a side. So. Also I'm Swedish so this has little to do with American politics to me. The Centre Party is very big here.

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coolarman

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Hot Take: South Park sucks

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deactivated-5e851fc84effd

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2 edgy 4 me

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Lazyimperial

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@boonsong: The thing is, they often do take a side. They take... a centrist, moderate side while mocking the extreme left and right of the situation / premise at hand. :-P Being a moderate is a side in of itself. It's like saying "flaying is too much, but a full pardon is too much. How about 5 to 10 years followed by probation?" Wouldn't you call that a side with a particular viewpoint?

Now if you want to talk about their nihilistic years of the mid-teens seasons where they were disillusioned with the show and dumped centrism for "aw, both sides of this issue suck and don't get it... and that'll never change," then I'll concede for those particular years, haha. They did get pretty bleak there for a while.

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@lazyimperial: Sure, I will admit that they have moments where they take an obvious side on a matter. This is were the frustration comes in though because I find their inconsistency, or rather moderate/centrist stances annoying. I don't want to argue about politics though because in the end I think it's pointless. I'm a social democrat at heart and I've partially grown up under moderate/centrist rule and hated it. I just find most of their mocking/satire pointless, pretentious and just off-putting.

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stordoff

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Seems on point for South Park. It could be kinda neat, BUT I really hope they do something more with it than harder=minority. If it's just a surface level commentary, that's A) not particularly clever, and B) runs the risk of entrenching those attitudes even when the intent is to satirise them. I've hated 95%+ of what I've seen of South Park (which admittedly is a small amount), but there is _potential_ for something interesting to come out of this.

I'd actually kinda like if it makes a big deal of the slider upfront, and then it's NEVER referenced again (with the intended reading being "Well maybe skin colour didn't actually matter after all....") though I'm not sure that's the direction they'll go.

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fatalbanana

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#46  Edited By fatalbanana

This thread is becoming a mess so I'll just put out my perspective and then dip.

I don't think the joke is funny and I also don't find it offensive. I think it's an interesting idea and I'm interested to see where they go with it. Since we don't know how this affects the game yet it's hard to judge it beyond that.

This talk of what political side South Park falls on is dumb and I am sure Trey and Matt would say the same if presented with it. It's a TV show guys if they have any point of view at all is that it shouldn't be taken seriously. Not to say they don't have good points but when it's separated by fart jokes I think it's clear what they are trying to get across.

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turboman

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#47 turboman  Staff

It's a good fun little joke. If you're bothered by it at all then the game is super not going to be for you.

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razzlerazzle

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@kcin: They are presented with an easier option aren't they?

;)

Anyways on topic this isn't surprising or particularly clever but it is amusing, just like South Park should be.

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burncoat

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This is as socially-conscious a take as a straight man making a girl account on dating sites to see just what the problem is.

South Park was one of my favorite shows when I was younger, but wow I really don't care for it now. The only episode I can think of that wasn't inherently awful or offensive for offense sake is the "Internet is out" one. The style of humor is very "edgy" without wit. I find it so tasteless that I was surprised the GB crew loved Stick of Truth as much as they did.

The satire defense only goes so far. When Cartman is supposed to be the awful person you love to hate, the whole thing is undermined by people like a former High School friend of mine who emulated and adored everything about Cartman. The "haha, stupid jew" routine he has with Kyle is made worse when people think it's totally fine to make those kinds of jokes (the fairly recent PewDiePie mess as an example). It stops being satire when people agree with the point you're trying to satirize.

I'm not offended or surprised at this point, just perpetually disappointed.

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shivermetimbers

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#50  Edited By shivermetimbers

I'll say my peace with this thread guys, then I'm off it. I don't wish to argue about this...

If you have to question what they're satirizing, it's not satire. South Park has repeatedly made shock humor jokes about topical subjects with their philosophy being 'all or nothing' when it comes to satire. The problem I personally have with this is if you're satirizing everything, you're simultaneously satirizing nothing. The position that comes across is clear: don't have an opinion or anything cause if you do we'll make fun of it no matter what and also haha if you're offended by our poorly written jokes. I'm not against satire in principle, I do believe there's such a thing as a wrong opinion after all.

But I'm here questioning the logic behind this particular joke. How is it meant to be interpreted? Is it meant to be 'cutting edge' satire about the state of white privilege? Or is it meant to be interpreted as a joke at PoCs expense (haha, the idea of white privilege is funny)? I'm gonna guess the latter. Why? Because I had to question the motive behind the 'joke'. We have nothing to go on and the writer's philosophy (which they admit, btw) is that having an opinion on the matter is a joke.

So yeah...

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