Spelunky More

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csl316

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#1  Edited By csl316

So, I'm 2 hours in. 46 deaths. Got the shortcuts to world 3. And I'm having such a hard time evaluating this game. I guess this is just an impressions thread.

First thing I noticed is that this is really more Spelunky. Which is good because I have 1,000+ hours in that game. Its best quality is that it feels like I'm playing Spelunky again for the first time (just with more familiarity with the mechanics and items).

But I kicked my daily addicition and now play that game every month or two. So I'm really worried about longevity. I'm doing my best to avoid looking anything up as the exploration and discovery is a huge part of the game. I'm finding that after getting a hang of the first few areas, it's entirely possible to breeze through them like the original ones.

I quickly came to realize that the music isn't hooking me, so the game might not hook me as much. One of the reasons I can always go back to Sonic and Mario is the dope music. But I'm finding that there's only one song per area? That's been the single biggest drawback so far. I was kinda tired of the first level theme after an hour (luckily, I got that first shortcut).

The new mechanics fit in great, and the new enemy designs seem pretty well thought out (but why do some take 3 hits??). The art was kind of off-putting at first, but I feel like this new style has a bit more personality. Some of the enemies seem kind of angry now instead of cute, especially the snakes and monkeys. It's nuts.

I'm just rambling, but where are you at? I'm looking forward to looking up some secrets once I finish the game for the first time.

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abadwind

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I'm still waiting for the Steam release but wasn't it the same composer for the music?

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GerbilsInSpace

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#5  Edited By GerbilsInSpace

It is the same composer, Eirik Surhke, but the approaches to the music is different. Instead of having a crafted ost like spelunky 1, they are trying to subtly change the music to the gameplay. Examples include if your life is at it's lowest, or if you have robbed the shopkeeper. It makes for a more ambient ost, which led me to being down on it to start with, but I think it'll keep feeling fresher for longer.

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Humanity

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It very much seems like a case of more of the same but in this particular game I think thats probably for the best? Spelunky has become this major hit among certain individuals to the point where I think if he changed too much it would probably not be received as well. Having said that.. it does seem to be awfully similar for such a long development time. I of course know jack-all about making games but from the layman looking in, seems extremely similar.

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Y2Ken

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I'm very much in camp, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

It would have been real easy to stray too far away from Spelunky, or have it be too similar. I trusted in Derek Yu that he'd only make a direct sequel if he genuinely felt he could justify it, and so far I feel pretty good about the outcome. It's a distinct game from the first, and has a lot of its own really cool ideas, but also doesn't invalidate the original game (I think it's still worth playing even if someone starts with the sequel).

Also the one thing I always wanted more than anything else in Spelunky was to feel that sense of discovery and wonder once again, and this absolutely delivers on that.

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@csl316: Enemies taking more hits kinda bugged me at first, but that seems largely to be the case only in the first area. Along with adding the punching bag poles, I think they upped the difficulty a bit in the first area to teach you the mechanics of the rest of the game. Like, what they're trying to communicate is that you shouldn't kill every single enemy in your path because often it just takes time and is not worth it. One of the things I noticed when showing Spelunky to my friends is how much they loved finding and killing every enemy. Now since many of them in the first area take 3 hits, you're conditioned to learn how to maneuver with them and around them, instead of hunting them down.

Great game so far. I'm really enjoying it. It's funny to see how much my Spelunky HD muscle memory is hurting me here, I'm trying to breeze through the caves and getting sloppy, but once I get into the second area I can usually make it quite a bit farther since I'm more alert.

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Goboard

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I've played around 4 or so hours thus far, and I REALLY enjoy. I'm one of the people who watched a hell of a lot of other people playing the first one before ever playing myself and still ended up with several hundred hours played. They've made plenty of great additions, but the changes to pre-existing elements are also super interesting in how they force experienced players of the first to alter or adopt new ways of thinking about how they play. The climbing gloves require you to hold in the direction your holding on to, always sprinting, 3 minutes to ghost arrival to name a few.

One change in particular I think encapsulates how the changes overall build on the existing Spelunky framework in a way that shows the refocusing that has occurred with 2. The Cave Men can now, carry things, trip over things and can fakeout the player when they try to jump on them. Their primary behavior is to run at the player once they see them on the same vertical axis that the Cave Man is on. This can create a situation where they trip. If they're walking and come across something on the ground they pick it up, be it gold, a rock or a shotgun...yeah. The fakeout is maybe the more important one though, because sometimes when you jump on them they'll evade the hit and fall over, pretending to have been hit for a brief moment. This is where I think the fundamental question that Spelunky 2 asks of the player "Are you paying attention?" emerges.

So much of playing Spelunky is learning the nuances and options available given the circumstances, so having more variable sets of circumstances within any one game element increases the range of options and possibilities to become aware of or keep in mind. The first area adds a number of the Cave Men style changes that seem to do a better job of encouraging players to adopt the mindset of the question it asks. If it's successful, especially for new players, the first area serves as a soft extended tutorial for what players need to internalize in order to succeed at Spelunky 2.

Having said all that the one change that I really do not like is how Leaderboards are handled for the Daily Challenge. In Spelunky 1, you could always see where you were in the Challenge results, but in 2 it looks like only the top 100 show up. 95% of my time in Spelunky 1 was doing the daily challenge each day, checking where I was after, then the next day checking where I actually ended up after the next days challenge opened up. It was a way of gauging both my progress and the potential ceiling for what could be achieved and therefore work towards. Maybe this is just a PSN limitation or something, but it's disappointing that now I need to screenshot each run to do that. They even appear to have removed the friends list daily scoring leaderboard as a consequence of this, so friends would then have to also screenshot and compare in some way outside of the game. I hope this is an over site, or changes for the PC release.

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csl316

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I'm wondering why they have run as the default now. I immediately changed it to walk, especially as I'm learning the game and trying to avoid running into everything. It feels like that change is making the game seem way harder to newer players. Even with all that Spelunky experience, this feeling out period is way more about slowly learning the environments and enemies. I'm guessing a lot of new folks are just running and forget there's even an option to walk.

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SethMode

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#12  Edited By SethMode

@csl316: Heck, even in the tutorial the game is like "Take your time, don't rush!"

I'm loving it so far in the same way I loved the first one: with a lot of cursing. It feels like a great iteration on the original, and despite kind of of reusing some thing, they do so in a great and more challenging way, and having just gotten to 4-1 last night, the second new level I've seen (not the volcanic one) is gorgeous. I also LITERALLY died 3 seconds into it.

At this point, the most Spelunky moment that has happened to me was having a shotgun and a jetpack on the volcanic level and losing 7 health after one small slip up trying to bounce on a bat...it led to a stun locked multi-hit by multiple enemies plus fal damage hell where I died almost instantly, yet it felt like an eternity as I watched every slip away.

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csl316

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#14  Edited By csl316

Got all the shortcuts and got to potentially the last level. I'm starting to get a hint of mastery on these levels and it's becoming quite fun.

I've caught glimpses of a ton of things that look like they do things, but I haven't figured them out. So seems like there are a ton of secrets hiding in plain sight.

Edit: Hey, and I saw credits. Seems like there's a lot more to discover, but the first playthrough was fun to figure out. I'm sure I'll appreciate the game a lot more when I do whatever true ending there is.

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wchigo

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I only played a couple hours last night, and it's taking some time to get my Spelunky legs back. I'm like Rorie where I played a ton on Vita, to the point where I beat Yama and I even got the Speedlunky trophy.

That being said, for as close as the game is to Spelunky 1, there's enough subtle changes that make it play pretty differently from 2. I'm definitely struggling the most with the roly poly enemies, to the point where I'm trying to avoid them entirely as much as possible. There definitely seem to be more "dead end" areas where you get to them and need to bomb/rope your way out than in the first game as well, which doesn't bother me too much since I try to scout out ahead of time, but was fairly noticeable during Brad's stream and even on Patrick's videos.

So far I think I've only gotten to maybe 2-2? Had an early run where I got a jetpack out of a present and was pretty hyped, then died in a stupid way (Spelunky's m.o.). Looking forward to putting more time in and getting further into the game.

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@csl316: Holy shit duder, I'm impressed you got the third shortcut already. That one requirement to bring a hired hand seems like a bear. Daunting but doable in the same way as the first game, but with SUCH a smaller margin for error considering how erratic it can be.

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SethMode

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@wchigo: My only evidence for this is a feeling, but a couple of things feel true to me:

1) there seem to be less crates with drops in general. Bombs/ropes seem fairly scarce outside of shops, but it also seems like I can last on 4 bombs and 4 ropes for longer...but it makes all of those moments you mentioned when I'm trapped where I'm filled with dread.

2) there seem to be less shops, but in more consistent places? Like, I feel like there seems to be a shop on the second level of any world, but then it seems sporadic other than that (again, no research done here, just a feeling).

3) it seems like there is less of a "penalty" for taking a shortcut now? Granted, I only have the first one, but I remember basically avoiding the shortcuts in the first game because with each one you were just more underpowered.

Again, I could completely be off here, but those were these gut feelings I got while playing so far.

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simpo

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#18  Edited By simpo

I love Spelunks.

The music, it's subtle, but there are quite a lot of different loops it picks from randomly, which while all been variations of a theme, are fairly different. Try and keep an ear out, and count how many distinctive loops there are, you may be surprised! Along with the incidental changes mentioned, having such a "suite" for each world helps Spelunky 2 feel different to Spelunky 1, and themes each world nicely.

And it does feel different, despite being comfortingly familiar, as I think we've all said. I'm one of those who played a ton of Spelunky 1 but is struggling to consistently get past World 1 in 2 so far! Love it!

One subtle thing about Spelunky I've not seen mentioned are how much the pre-made parts that make up the randomised levels are something you have to get used to as well as the enemies. Getting to grips with those has been a fun part of the challenge. For example the pits of spikes with a bridge over the top, with two bone piles making up part of the pit. If you drop an object on to the bones, you smash them and may be able to get the goodies stashed at the sides by jumping up from below, and not having to use a rope or bomb.

(EDIT: a perfect example of the above happened soon after I posted, so I uploaded a clip here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFltLclRGUo

Loading Video...

I throw down a skull to break the bone tile, then clear the rest of the top layer of the level, before using the gap I created tp safely jump down and get the chest. I then destroy only the top tile of a 2-tile high pile of bones, and use the remaining tile to jump up and get a gold bar. Learning!)

It's all these little things which add together and make it feel tantalisingly new, but which may not be grasped by someone who doesn't have 1000s of Spelunky runs in the bank.

Listening to the former Spelunky Showlike podcast, now renamed Eggplant, they recommended discussing discoveries and looking for secrets as a group or community rather than getting too much info from the wider web, so that might be fun to do here! Especially after Steam release.

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csl316

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#20  Edited By csl316

@sethmode: That requirement was no good. I was just practicing the area over and over, until that requirement spawned right across from the -4 exit. It was sheer luck so I can see it being frustrating to a ton of people. Carrying that to the exit also doesn't work so you really need things to come together.

Still, worth it so I could quickly learn the last area.

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@simpo: Ha, that was an interesting clip to watch. I probably wouldn't have realized i could use horizontal movement during my airtime to avoid the spikes but still land on that block.

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#23  Edited By Goboard

@onemanarmyy: I think the size of the player hitbox and/or enemy hit boxes is slightly smaller now, so making subtle moves like that, or within a narrow space, possible. For instance I can't recall a moment in Spelunky 1 where an enemy is in a 1x1 block space, you fall down into it and land next to them. You always landed on top of them. I've had that happen a number of times already in Spelunky 2 so far.

I'm also finding that the whip hitbox going forward, especially during jumps is either slower and/or doesn't quite hit in the same way. This has mostly been an issue for me when trying to go from a ledge grab, jump up, swing the whip, and try to hit the enemy. A number of times the whip has wiffed when the enemy is on in the space above that ledge, something that never happened in Spelunky 1.

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@cikame said:
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My favourite part of Spelunky 2 is that it is more game, and it doesn't need to call you a fucking idiot every 35 seconds the entire time you're playing it.

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Found a bug, do not read this if you don't want mid-game spoilers:

Olmec can kill you if you're running up against him as he's rising out of a pit. The animation plays as if you're been crushed, but it happens before his bottom even reaches you as it's rising.

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SethMode

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This is just a random contribution after getting these items a few times but:

1) I find the spiked boots to be much more useful now than in the first game, especially if you go the Jungle route.

2) In contrast, I find the climbing gloves to be significantly less useful this game, since you have to hold toward the wall you want to stick to now. I either find myself having difficulty making tricky jumps while also sticking, OR I find myself sticking when I don't want to. Perhaps I'll change as I get use to them, but right now, I avoid them.

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Deathpooky

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Put a ton of hours in this week, currently mid-way through unlocking the 3rd shortcut and have gotten to world 6(?), but haven't seen any ending stuff yet. Undecided if I like this more or less than the previous game.

I completely hate the first area with how much of a nightmare the moles and yellow sonic spin guys are to deal with in most circumstances, so it has put me off trying to do full runs - I feel like I die way more and have way less fun in the Caves than any other area. I've certainly learned how to deal with those enemies better, but for an opening area where you're low on health and resources they are mean.

Also in general the amount of not only instant-death or run-ending mechanics they've added in (curse, poison, LONG stuns on hits), really up the punishing factor in the game from what I remember of the first one. Doesn't help that there are some really nasty spawns the RNG can generate with the new enemies and tiles.

I've developed some strategies and am certainly getting better over time, but from what I've seen so far I don't know if I'll dedicate myself to trying to see everything or get to the ending the way I did the first one.

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SethMode

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@deathpooky: Okay, so, I'm not crazy then, you are stunned for an INSANELY long time upon getting hit by just about anything?

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csl316

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@deathpooky: Yeah, some subtle changes that I'm not into. Really tough starting area, poison sucks hard, and I feel like I spend more time stunned.

I gotta keep the perspective that I knew that first game in and out and am still learning this one.

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