That's the original argument this current one strayed from, so I'll address that in a moment. For now, do you accept that opinions are not predicated on being well-informed. If not, the original argument has no resolution as your interpretation of the word does not correlate with its actual definition.

The argument started as a disagreement in whether or not "an opinion on whether a game is worth buying based on a review" is also "an opinion on the game itself." That's been set off to the side after we realized his interpretation of the word "opinion" is not the same as mine, which renders any attempt at discussing the point pretty much moot.

Opinions are not predicated on being well-informed. But, I don't call every thought or value judgement that comes out of someone an opinion. I use other words. Are we cool with that?

kiss him. now is the perfect moment. kiss him on the mouth

This is probably a terrible idea, but it allows me to procrastinate more so

@winternet:

But, I already explained this. You want to be simplistic and call all of that, opinions. I don't. When I use the word opinion, I'm referring to something that is well realized, informed and though-out. For the rest, I use the words like notions, guesses, preconceptions and all that jazz. We've been over this.

Language doesn't really have much of a value when you are free to apply your own definitions to the simplest of terms at your own whims, or even when you change them to include your own ideas. You then run into the "no true Scotsman" problem.You must use the generally-accepted idea of an opinion as "thoughts and feelings on something not based in fact" (paraphrased) or else your argument is rendered pointless.

@turambar:

"an opinion on whether a game is worth buying based on a review" is also "an opinion on the game itself."

Of course not; the two are different things. That doesn't mean that they aren't both opinions; it just means that one is far more well-informed than the other. You must know your own thoughts and feelings on whether a game looks worth your time and money or not, and then you can form a more well-rounded opinion once you've played it.

@believer258: But, I'm not doing that. Allow me to give an example. If I ask someone for their opinion about a TV show, what I am expecting is for him/her to say if he/she thinks the show is good or not and explain why that is. You know, the story is this and that, the characters are apples or oranges, the action is red or blue, you know stuff like that. If the answer that I get is "It's bad, because ugh anime", well I'm not going to say that's an opinion, really. It's a preconceived notion "that just because it's Anime it's bad".

I agree, we have to use the generally-accepted use of the word opinion, but that is more than just "thoughts and feelings on something". I mean, when you ask for an opinion on something are you expecting some gibberish nonsense? You expect something more than that. When you ask for an opinion what you're really asking for is an informed and though out string of thoughts. Or am I totally off-based on this?

@winternet said:

Sure, there's more than one word that can be attached to a meaning after all. However, they are still opinions regardless of whether that is the term of your choosing in describing them.

Now that we've set that aside, back to the original discussion, as seen below.

That's where I disagree. They are not two different things, but rather two different levels points of the same thing.

Chronologically speaking, it can only happen in one order, so lets just do a simple step-by-step look.

I read a review on Giantbomb about the new Star Trek game. That review is designed let me know if the game is worth buying/playing when I have no personal experience with it. To do that, it gives me descriptors of the game based on someone else's experience with it, which in turn colors my initial thoughts on the game, my opinion of it. After I have played the game myself, I have a more informed opinion, but I do not store it in a separate mental compartment from the opinion formed after reading the review. I add onto it, enforcing parts of my original opinion that my personal experience has agreed with, and discarding parts of my original opinion that my experience disagrees with.

At the end of this process, I do not somehow have two different opinions of the game in my mind at the same time. The opinion I had of it at the start (which is directly responsible for whether I bought it or not) is an altered, but not separate, opinion of the game after I have played it myself.

When you ask someone for their opinion, you're asking for how they feel about something. You are hoping that how they feel has been derived from careful consideration, but its by no means bound by your preference of what it should be. It can be a dumb knee-jerk reaction, but as long as it characterizes how they feel about it, its an opinion, because that is the definition of the word.

No, if I want to know how they feel about something I ask them "How do you feel about that?" When you're asking this you're expecting a brief answer. One that just goes right to the core of the matter. When you're asking for an opinion, you expect a more detailed answer, something with more meat to it.

@winternet: That would be your preference, and a damned good preference to have. However, it's not the definition of the word.

But they're both opinions, though. What you just described is an opinion. When you ask someone how they feel about something, they answer with whatever opinion they have come up with.

"How do you feel about Star Trek?"

"It was a shitty game" <- That is an opinion. Not a very well qualified one, nor a well thought-out one, but an opinion nonetheless.

I'll accept that as a valid end to this argument.

@believer258: I thought you wanted to talk about generally-accepted use of the word and not going back to the technicalities of the definitions.

I actually can't believe that in your normal everyday talk you are this picky. Are you this technical about how someone uses a word or not? I wonder if you're this technical with other words as well. If someone says "This briefcase is red" do you go "well, it actually is not. This is not hex ff0000, it's actually hex ff0003"?

This has got to be my favorite use of full thread editing yet. Haha.

How is this thread still open?

Way to completely flip your thread title there. This guy could be perfect for working in Polygon's editorial team...... asdf

@jdh5153 said:

Done. Should be interesting.

Livestream that shit, I'll watch it.

OMFGLOL @ the altered OP and thread title.

Dude, that was kinda harsh...

Sadly this is all some genres ever get. Like games based on TV shows. Or adventure games. This is one reason I have come to like bad games. Because for half a decade it has been the bread and butter for adventure games.

i lol'd.

I don't see what the big deal is. I finished the game, had a terrible experience with the second half and changed my mind about the game. What is so odd about that?

So I finished the game, changed my mind about it because of a bad experience, and some how that is a terrible thing and I am some how trolling for attention? Right. Also, what do you have against Polygon?

Since we've moved on to being uselessly snarky now, isn't oddly limiting the definitions of words you're side of the argument, and accepting that red is an umbrella term that cover multiple shades on that end of the spectrum my side?

God dammit, I thought this was over.

Your recant was past the first few posts of the topic. That was your mistake. Most people don't read beyond that before posting something stupid.

So did I. Then I saw that up tick in my new message count, moused over it to see the username, and just let out an annoyed sigh.

Also, finally caught the edited original post. That was actually a rather respectable (also funny) touch.

@turambar: Dude, I know the feeling. Which is not an opinion. (hey-o, reference)

Well, you probably could have made it more clear that the original thread was just a first impression. Because, basing everything you feel about a game (or at least speaking as if you were), on a short chunk of said game is why reviewers finish games. They can warm up, turn to shit, or change entirely.

Of course! There's screaming at a reviewer that their opinion is objectively wrong about a game you haven't even played, but DAMNIT, you're looking forward to!!

The first boss battle was cake....

As for Star Trek. The Stealth bullshit was worn out the very first time they did it. Then to force nearly ALL optional stuff to be stealth was their downfall.

@altairre: @rabidcentipede: wut. It was a joke referring to how Polygon switched their reviews score for Simcity from a 9 to a 4... I never said you were trolling for attention nor can I see how I was in anyway being 'harsh'.

I specifically put the gibberish ''asdf'' at the end there to help note that I was just being facetious.

Best use of thread editing. 10/10. Also that game looks boring as shit, but I say that about good games in a similar mold, so w/e.

I know what you were referring to and I wasn't being serious either though I maybe forgot to put the gibberish at the end of the post. Man that Polygon thing was fucking stupid (I think Justin McElroy even made fun of it in his Star Trek review).

Me and my gf started an LP for this game, the game is alright in co-op and it reminds me of those B style PS2 games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sben8Ilw6yQ&feature=youtu.be

BAM

DAMN

OHHHH SHIT

SHOTS FIRED

...

meh I like Polygon but that was funny

So I'm a few hours in and I have to say it's not the worst game I've ever played. It has some really poor level design at times, the jumping can be really horrible and there are some annoying glitches....But it's playable. Saying that, it's not worth $60 at ALL. But if you can rent it, I would say at least give it a shot. $2/day from Red Box, you can cut your losses at $2 or you could probably beat it in a night. I'm about 4, maybe 5 hours in and have just 3 missions left.

I wrote a review (of sorts) if you want to read a bit more. It could've been better, but out of all the movie games ever made I'd say it's certainly in the top 5%.

Part 2 is up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkXl5OCTXKE&feature=youtu.be

How can you write a review if you have not finished the game? Also wait till the stupid stealth shit starts.

Part 3 is here, the game gets super dumb! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwwh0ZOYCSI&feature=youtu.be

I really liked the last season of Enterprise.

Wait, what are we talking about again.

Where do you find those people? Surely they are easily avoidable since I dont run into that sort of stuff at all and im not even trying to avoid it.