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    Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords

    Game » consists of 9 releases. Released Dec 06, 2004

    With the Jedi nearly extinct, the galaxy is on the verge of falling into complete anarchy. As an exiled Jedi Knight regaining the Force, you must choose your path: help restore the Jedi Order, or embrace the dark side.

    Why does everyone hate KOTOR 2?

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    insanejedi

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    #1  Edited By insanejedi

    I think it's a bit harsh to say KOTOR 2 was horrible compared to its predecessor KOTOR 1. And the fact that it switched developers doesn't anger me as much because Obsidian has always been the pairing partner for Bioware's games for a long time. In fact, you could say the people have not moved at all as you were getting the spirit of the original team whom did Baulders Gate, because it was done by both Bioware and Black Isle whom then Black Isle formed what we know today as Obsidion Enterntainment. So this isin't exactly a Treyarch and Infinity Ward thing at all.

    That and I found KOTOR 2's story to be more intelligent than the first game. While KOTOR 1 gave you the ability to choose between good and bad choices, KOTOR 2 made you really think about your choices as Kreia will make good points as to the decisions you thought that were morally good, might not be so in the long run. I will admit that I felt that KOTOR 1's story of the whole galaxy at stake and the amazing plot twist that rivals that of Darth Vadar's revelation to Luke Skywalker were much more compelling, but the morallity and the messages of KOTOR 2 were subtle and stuck into your brain. Not to mention the much needed gameplay improvements (fraking Pazzak cheater...) and balances in the game. 


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    Megalon

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    #2  Edited By Megalon

    Well I certainly don't hate it, but I think it's fair to say overall it is not as good as KOTOR 1. It's not that the game was bad, it just felt incomplete.

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    Nasar7

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    #3  Edited By Nasar7

    I stopped playing KOTOR 2 like an hour in because it was exactly the same as KOTOR 1.

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    papercut

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    #4  Edited By papercut

    I loved Kotor 2. It been a while since i played either, so I can say which I liked more, but they were both really good

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    maxszy

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    #5  Edited By maxszy

    I actually like KOTOR2 more than 1. The Story in 1 was better I found, as was the ending fight with Malak as compared to the old lady in the second. But the gameplay, and how it was set up was actually perfected on in KOTOR2 I thought and thus enjoyed it a little more.

    What the main problem was, is the botched job that happened with the ending of the game. Its totally incomplete and they just rushed it. It was too bad because so much other stuff in the game was well done. So I think people get angry over that and thus hate on the whole thing. That part was definitely really bad, but doesn't deserve all the hate.

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    papercut

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    #6  Edited By papercut
    Maxszy said:
    "I actually like KOTOR2 more than 1. The Story in 1 was better I found, as was the ending fight with Malak as compared to the old lady in the second. But the gameplay, and how it was set up was actually perfected on in KOTOR2 I thought and thus enjoyed it a little more.What the main problem was, is the botched job that happened with the ending of the game. Its totally incomplete and they just rushed it. It was too bad because so much other stuff in the game was well done. So I think people get angry over that and thus hate on the whole thing. That part was definitely really bad, but doesn't deserve all the hate."
    I never beat Malak. I got up to the point where you are in that room with him and he keeps draining the bodies but I just couldn't do it. I think I just sucked. I DID beat 2 and I felt a bit jipt. Although I remember running through the halls of sith being WAY more powerful just killing them all in one move. AWESOME.
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    BreakfastKing

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    #7  Edited By BreakfastKing

    I think a lot of the hatred for KOTOR 2 comes from its ending. Without getting at any spoilers for those of you that may not have played that far, the ending felt more like a lazy fanfiction than a meaningful conclusion to an otherwise well-off story, as Maxsy said.  Also, some time after the game came out people found entire scenes of story that had been hidden away on the PC version that featured actual endings or plot twists for some of the companions you pick up along the way.

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    papercut

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    #8  Edited By papercut
    BreakfastKing said:
     Also, some time after the game came out people found entire scenes of story that had been hidden away on the PC version that featured actual endings or plot twists for some of the companions you pick up along the way."
    What?! show me!
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    Gunner

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    #9  Edited By Gunner
    papercut said:
    "BreakfastKing said:
     Also, some time after the game came out people found entire scenes of story that had been hidden away on the PC version that featured actual endings or plot twists for some of the companions you pick up along the way."
    What?! show me!"
    i introduce...

    RESTORATION PROJECT!

    Still being worked on unfortunately.
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    turbomonkey138

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    #10  Edited By turbomonkey138
    Gunner said:
    "papercut said:
    "BreakfastKing said:
     Also, some time after the game came out people found entire scenes of story that had been hidden away on the PC version that featured actual endings or plot twists for some of the companions you pick up along the way."
    What?! show me!"
    i introduce...

    RESTORATION PROJECT!Still being worked on unfortunately. "
    Now there are some true fans .
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    #11  Edited By papercut

    Back on subject, did everyone think of the gameplay? I personally remember enjoying it more.

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    Knives

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    #12  Edited By Knives

    Kotor 1 did a good job of starting you in the action, and the story was less.. indirect? Kotor 2 took a bit to get in to and the ending wasn't very satisfying.

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    Systech

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    #13  Edited By Systech

    Knights of the Old Republic II was awesome. People just have really insane expectations. Maybe they would have liked it better if the ending didn't suck.

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    papercut

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    #14  Edited By papercut

    I wonder if Bioshock 2 will be the new KOTOR 2

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    ArbitraryWater

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    #15  Edited By ArbitraryWater

    People hate it because of how much of a disappointment it was. I still have no idea what the hell the story is about, I could care less about the characters, and the ending was really really bad. Plus, it shipped buggy, broken, and unfinished with wide swaths of bugs, glitches, and cut content, but I guess that is more LucasArt's fault than Obsidian's. Nonetheless, I certainly would not call it a bad game, but it pales in comparison to its predeccessor by a wide margin.

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    Gunner

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    #16  Edited By Gunner
    ArbitraryWater said:
    "People hate it because of how much of a disappointment it was. I still have no idea what the hell the story is about, I could care less about the characters, and the ending was really really bad. Plus, it shipped buggy, broken, and unfinished with wide swaths of bugs, glitches, and cut content, but I guess that is more LucasArt's fault than Obsidian's. Nonetheless, I certainly would not call it a bad game, but it pales in comparison to its predeccessor by a wide margin."
    It was shipped unfinished, publisher pressure will do that to a company... that and obsidian doesnt know how to fix bugs worth shit.
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    Red

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    #17  Edited By Red

    It wasn't bad, but the ending sucked. 

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    crunchUK

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    #18  Edited By crunchUK

    because the story made about as much sense as a chocolate teapot

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    Death_Unicorn

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    #19  Edited By Death_Unicorn

    It isn't a bad game, its just KotOR I is a lot better.

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    atejas

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    #20  Edited By atejas

    The characters were there, definitely some of the best I've seen in a videogame(much better than 1), but holyshit the plot needed polish.

    And the ending. The. Fucking. Ending.

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    Kloreep

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    #21  Edited By Kloreep

    Not everyone hates KOTOR2. Much as I liked 1, I like 2 better.

    I agree KOTOR 2 seemed more intelligent. That's not quite the right word, but I think I get what you mean. KOTOR1 had better plot twists, but KOTOR2 felt better throughout. I'm honestly not sure why people are so confused after playing the game; it's not as clear as 1, but I didn't have trouble following along and understanding what was happening with the characters. Although some of the force mechanics and such that justify it all are a bit unclear; as atejas says, it could have used some polish.

    2 definitely had the better cast. In 1, there were only a few party members I actually cared about - Jolee and the "protocol" droid, and to some extent Bastila, were the only party members I actually cared about. In 2, just about every character was interesting.

    The ending is definitely KOTOR 2's biggest problem. While it seems like it was always meant to be nebulous with regard to the PC, there was, as BreakfastKing and Gunner said, much more that was supposed to happen regarding your party members that would have brought them into the ending in meaningful ways.

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    #22  Edited By papercut

    so is it jjust the story that everyone hates?

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    xionpunk

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    #23  Edited By xionpunk

    I dunno, it just got boring to me after a while.

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    mackgyver

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    #24  Edited By mackgyver

    I found KOTOR 2's story to be incoherent. There are a few inaccuracies such as you being the last jedi but oh wait! You discover that your group can also become jedi! Just doesn't make sense. Plus you're being guided toward a buildup and possible relationship with that white haired jedi queen or whatever she is when it's nothing of the sort. The story towards the end does pick up steam and gets interesting but the ending......OH GAAWWWWWWD THE ENDING. "Tell me about everyones future....ok thanks, you can die now....uhhh uhhhhhhh uhhhhhhh". So lame. There was no closure, perhaps for a possible sequel but so far I haven't read or seen anything about that. If this series ends with that huge cliffhanger I am going to hate KOTOR 2 even more. GIVE ME MORE KOTOR, and not just the MMO.

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    maxszy

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    #25  Edited By maxszy
    Gunner said:
    "papercut said:
    "BreakfastKing said:
     Also, some time after the game came out people found entire scenes of story that had been hidden away on the PC version that featured actual endings or plot twists for some of the companions you pick up along the way."
    What?! show me!"
    i introduce...

    RESTORATION PROJECT!Still being worked on unfortunately. "
    People are really restoring huh? Wow that's really cool. Hopefully it comes to fruition!

    papercut
    said:
    "so is it jjust the story that everyone hates?"
    I don't think its even the story everyone dislikes so much. Even though I like the KOTOR1 story better, 2 was still a well done story till you got till end. I think the incompleteness and the botch job of the end of the game is really what people put off. Its the "laziness" of the ending really. As Kloreep said, KOTOR2 really did have the better cast in many ways.

    papercut said:
    "Maxszy said:
    "I actually like KOTOR2 more than 1. The Story in 1 was better I found, as was the ending fight with Malak as compared to the old lady in the second. But the gameplay, and how it was set up was actually perfected on in KOTOR2 I thought and thus enjoyed it a little more.What the main problem was, is the botched job that happened with the ending of the game. Its totally incomplete and they just rushed it. It was too bad because so much other stuff in the game was well done. So I think people get angry over that and thus hate on the whole thing. That part was definitely really bad, but doesn't deserve all the hate."
    I never beat Malak. I got up to the point where you are in that room with him and he keeps draining the bodies but I just couldn't do it. I think I just sucked. I DID beat 2 and I felt a bit jipt. Although I remember running through the halls of sith being WAY more powerful just killing them all in one move. AWESOME."
    Malak was bitch. Took me many attempts to beat him. His draining thing was really annoying. I remember I ended up kiting him around the room and making him follow me then after the drain I could run in, pound on him, and then keep kiting. Or something like that, was a long time ago I beat it last now. It took awhile but when he went down, man was it satisfying.

    Yeah, running through the halls of the Sith was a lot of fun!

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    mracoon

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    #26  Edited By mracoon

    I've said this loads of time but I think KOTOR 2 was just as fun as the original but suffered from some bugs (which I myself never encountered) and was kind of incomplete. These weren't even the fault of the developers fault as they were forced to release the game before it was ready by Lucasarts.

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    MiasmaFett

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    #27  Edited By MiasmaFett

    Its a good game i have played through it 3 times i prefer the first one though i wish they where bringing out a kotor 3 the mmo is going to suck

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    Jwkokosmakroon

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    #28  Edited By Jwkokosmakroon

    The biggest problem with two were the sidequests which were slopilly removed.
    There was a whole questline on the HK killer droids which is being hinted at but isn't actually in the game.

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    Coleslaw893

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    #29  Edited By Coleslaw893

    I love KOTOR 2, one of my favorite games of all time actually. Still, it doesn't compare to KOTOR 1 IMO. The story was less interesting, as were the characters, it had framerate problems and other glitches that KOTOR 1 did not have. It may have been a little disappointing, but definitely does not deserve to be hated.

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    Redfield

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    #30  Edited By Redfield

    I really like KotOR 2, it's story is not as good as KotOR 1 but it's still one of the best RPGs of the last gen of consoles

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    Chummy8

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    #31  Edited By Chummy8
    Maxszy said:
    I actually like KOTOR2 more than 1. The Story in 1 was better I found, as was the ending fight ... [more]

    I agree. Aside from the ending,  I consider KOTOR 2 better in every way.
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    TheGreatGuero

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    #32  Edited By TheGreatGuero

    I've still never been able to play it. Though I would if MS worked something out and brought it to Xbox Originals, provided that I have enough space left on my hard drive for it. The original KOTOR is one of my all-time favorite games, and I don't even like RPGs!

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    semicolon1twlev2

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    #33  Edited By semicolon1twlev2

    I love KotOR II.  But that damn Peragus...  Fucking Peragus.  It's so long and drawn-out.  A very shitty opening to the game.  Along with that, I now hear of all this cut content and deeper character conversations.  You were supposed to be able to figure out where those droids were coming from and go there (a droid planet, apparently), and what about the random scene with T3-M4 and HK47?  T3 just blasts HK with some beam after HK talks about disabling the computer, or something, on the ship.  They never even advanced on that.

    Regardless, I love both games.  KotOR III needs to be made.  Not an MMO...

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    death_and_drek

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    #34  Edited By death_and_drek

    I think that KOTOR I was so beloved because it delivered the Star Wars experience fans had always wanted, in addition to being a great RPG.  Also, the twist at the end FEELS like a classic Star Wars twist, on par with the big reveal of Darth Vader being Luke's father.

    The hate for KOTOR II is generally about its unfinished state and very confusing end game.  Of course, this wasn't Obsidian's fault, but Lucasarts, who wanted to rush the game to the shelves.  I personally think KOTOR II is more satisifying on many levels than KOTOR I, though I do think KOTOR I is a classic, where KOTOR II is not. 

    It's too bad that Obsidian has garnered a reputation as a second-string RPG maker behind Bethesda and Bioware.  I honestly think they're on par with those developers, but problems with KOTOR II and NWN2 have earned them a lot of gamer ire.

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    Fire_Marshall_Bill

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    to me they are on equal ground.  When the restoration project is finished, if it gets finished, it should be higher

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    MeierTheRed

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    #36  Edited By MeierTheRed

    I can tell you why i hate it, i had two glitches at the same part in the game, that prevented me from progressing in the story, and i had to restart the game two times. So that game can suck my balls.

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    turbomonkey138

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    #37  Edited By turbomonkey138

    In many ways this game improved on the first one . Both of them are by favorite ever games . However a couple of things i liked and didn't like were
     
    KOTOR 1 :
     
    Better story (damn that plot twist i didn't see coming)
    More epic in scale
     
    KOTOR 2 :
     
    Make everyone a jedi :)
    Better talking system
     
    There are other reasons why i love these games bu it would take a long time to list them, all

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    SUPERhys

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    #38  Edited By SUPERhys

    Personally I thought it was an excellent game. But people made their judgements as soon as they saw the name 'Obsidian' intead of 'Bioware' on the cover. Sad, really.

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