Hey guys, this is my first ever MMO experience, so take that however you see fit.

So near the end of the free month, I hit 50 with my Sniper (I'm Nyturi, by the way) and finished my class quest. But upon finding that most of the interesting endgame content is group-based, and grouping is kind of a hassle in SWTOR, I haven't resubbed since my free month expired. I'd like to get back into it, since I've had a lot of fun with the Flashpoints that I've been on, but I really cannot justify paying a monthly fee when a lot of my playtime will include standing on the fleet, spamming the gen chat. (Yes, I'm aware there is probably plenty of anecdotal experience on this board of quick, painless grouping, but it's been a big problem for me, personally) I'll probably roll a Republic alt at some point--likely a Trooper so I don't have to deal with silly Force rhetoric--but it's not as if this doesn't affect low-level content either.

I know that Bioware is aware that their current LFG solution is inadequate, and they've posted on their forums about addressing this, probably with an automated dungeon finder a la WOW. Researching this on the web is the first time I realized that there are actually people who oppose such a thing. I did not know this. And I've familiarized myself with both sides of the argument, and though I still think the anti-dungeon finder position is silly, I'm interested in hearing where GB stands.

How do you feel about the possible inclusion of a dungeon finder in SWTOR, cross-server or server-specific? Do you want it? Why or why not?

i don't have experience with SWTOR, but regarding WoW, the Dungeon finder variant is always usually a way easier form of the same raid, with lesser loot. People complain about this, but tbh, they don't need to do it. Another complain is ninja looting, which always can be annoying, not sure how this will affect SWTOR. I personally think all MMOS should have this feature.

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

@Zenaxzd said:

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

People believe they are the reason social communities fell apart in WoW and that reason they didn't exist long in RIFT.

The game could certainly use a better LFG tool in general.

@ccampb89 said:

@Zenaxzd said:

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

People believe they are the reason social communities fell apart in WoW and that reason they didn't exist long in RIFT.

Really? That sounds like a very stupid argument against having a dungeon finder.

General works pretty well.  It shows that the people you are pugging with are at least capable of the basest amount of communication, and that's all most flashpoints are; communication.
 
Definitely don't want cross-server LFG.  That's completely ridiculous.

I was fairly disappointed that it did not have one from launch, honestly one of the reason I gave up on it after first week.

@Encephalon: I played years of MMOs without one (DAoC & vanilla WoW). As a MMO newcomer you probably did not know that DPS usually have a harder time finding groups. I mostly play tanks or healers, which reduces these problems. I only want an LFG tool when it is to semi-mandatory to rate people after their performance and social behavior, end then preferentially group the nice and good players together.

Someday, sure.
But no matter if its local or cross server, idiots will be there and lazy people who want to RUSHRUSHRUSH too, ruining many experiences.
Already people have kicked me for listening to dialogue (it was my first time there...) and enjoying the story, so this can only get worse.

@Wuddel said:

@Encephalon: I played years of MMOs without one (DAoC & vanilla WoW). As a MMO newcomer you probably did not know that DPS usually have a harder time finding groups. I only want an LFG tool when it is to semi-mandatory to rate people after their performance and social behavior, end then preferentially group the nice and good players together.

Dude, there should totally be a 5 star rating scale for people you group up with after a dungeon is finished, possibly rating them out of 5 for politeness, teamwork and other non gear or 'skill' focused categories. Sure, there's room for abuse in that sort of system but i'm sure with the budgets these teams have they could work something out.

@Wuddel said:

@Encephalon: I played years of MMOs without one (DAoC & vanilla WoW). As a MMO newcomer you probably did not know that DPS usually have a harder time finding groups. I mostly play tanks or healers, which reduces these problems. I only want an LFG tool when it is to semi-mandatory to rate people after their performance and social behavior, end then preferentially group the nice and good players together.

Actually, on my server, it is the tanks that are hard to find :p

@Benny: I'd rather make it less elaborate, and force it more on people to get a better dataset. This should not keep out average players, just keep the assholes and the chumps out of most of the PUGs.

@amir90: Yeah. This is what I saying. Or are you saying that tanks are quite abundant. Because I have this impression.

@Wuddel: Woops, I need to learn to read :p

For the first 4-5 years of WoW, before there was any dungeon finder or cross server grouping / battlegrounds, players actually got to know each other and it was a rewarding experience.

The dungeon finder destroys an integral part of the mmo experience.

If you guys are in such a rush, I can't help but wonder why you are even playing mmos, which are essentially just a big time wasting treadmills.

While you are waiting for them to add a dungeon finder, some advice:

-join a good guild, it will make grouping infinitely easier.

-start looking for your group before you actually want to run your flashpoint then go and do all the other stuff you do (dailies/pvp/auction house) while you are waiting for group to form.

Yay - whilst the social tedium was a refreshing throwback at first, I've since grown tired of it. Didn't even do all the flashpoints yet (despite being 100+ hours into endgame with my Inquisitor), because I can't be arsed to stand around and build a group. Guild groups are okay, but not always conveniently available. Dungeon finder it is. At this point I wouldn't even care if it was X-Realm, as long as I can play without going through much hassle.

The other much more revolutionary solution is GW2's design redacting dedicated healers and tanks altogether from its game mechanics. Just find 4 capable players, synergize your weapon and skill loadout, go dungeon crawling. And according to people who were at playtest events at ArenaNet, the 5-man dungeons are plenty challenging and 'combat puzzle solving' is much more creative and dynamic than what we're used to with 'Holy Trinity' mechanics.

Looking forward to it sooo much.

If they implement one, I'd much rather see it based on the server itself and not cross server. Cross server on WoW worked sure, but it ruined the general community as well.

@ccampb89 said:

@Zenaxzd said:

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

People believe they are the reason social communities fell apart in WoW and that reason they didn't exist long in RIFT.

Pretty much this ^

As further evidence that this is my first MMO, I just worked out for myself what PUG stands for.

Anyway, thanks for the input, duders. I was feeling a little down, assuming I was the only one losing my patience for this sort of thing. Never assume you're the only one on the internet to anything.

I might resub if grouping is improved, through a dungeon finder or something else, as well as a few other things I'd like to see addressed. That is, if I still care about the game by the time this happens. If not, though, it was still a good experience, and now I can say I've played an MMO, because SWTOR is certainly that.

@TheKeywork1989 said:

If they implement one, I'd much rather see it based on the server itself and not cross server. Cross server on WoW worked sure, but it ruined the general community as well.

@ccampb89 said:

@Zenaxzd said:

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

People believe they are the reason social communities fell apart in WoW and that reason they didn't exist long in RIFT.

Pretty much this ^

Is it worth sacrificing that sense of "server community" for being able to easily get in a group and see content? I think most people would be willing to make that sacrifice.

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Someday, sure. But no matter if its local or cross server, idiots will be there and lazy people who want to RUSHRUSHRUSH too, ruining many experiences. Already people have kicked me for listening to dialogue (it was my first time there...) and enjoying the story, so this can only get worse.

If you're worried about other people being dicks and ruining your experience, you probably shouldn't play an MMO.

@Zenaxzd said:

Why would you not want a dungeon finder? It's not like it stops you from getting your own groups with friends together if you want to... I am honestly shocked the game didn't launch with one.

People believe they are the reason social communities fell apart in WoW and that reason they didn't exist long in RIFT.

I'd love a server-specific Dungeon Finder, but, as has been said, cross-server dungeon finders just turn the game into "sit in the capital city and wait for queues to pop so I can spend 30-45 minutes grouped with people I'll never see again."

Personally, I've had no trouble finding groups via generally or even just flagging myself as LFG. I don't feel the need for a LFG tool, as it doesn't really encourage players to socialise and form friendships, guilds, etc.

I'm all for dungeon finder, but I completely respect and understand the counter-argument. I just don't have time to find groups, and I'm not particularly social.

@ajamafalous said:

I'd love a server-specific Dungeon Finder, but, as has been said, cross-server dungeon finders just turn the game into "sit in the capital city and wait for queues to pop so I can spend 30-45 minutes grouped with people I'll never see again."

As opposed to sitting in the capital city spamming general looking for a group of people to spend 30-45 minutes with that you may or may not ever see again, and even if you did see them again you wouldn't know it because you don't remember the name of every person you've ever grouped with on the server.

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Or any online game for that matter right?

Probably. Like you said, just tune out the assholes and enjoy the game. While I can sympathize with the "newbie that just needs a little help," I can also sympathize with the "I just wanna run my dungeon, get my lewt, and get the eff out" player too. People with limited amounts of playing time tend to sit down for an MMO session with some goals in mind for what they want to accomplish during that time, and anything that slows down that progress is an annoyance they don't want to have to deal with.

Anyways, no one should be a dick online. But I can see why it happens.

Edited for sweet typos.

@Grimluck343 said:

remember the name of every person you've ever grouped with on the server.

I actually would remember the people that I grouped with (the good ones anyway), not just from the dungeon runs, but you would see them in the cities, talk to them in global chat, see them in battlegrounds, after awhile add them as friends maybe join their guild. I still remember alot of the people I played SWG with almost 10 years ago.

I suppose the dungeon finder isn't that bad if it's restricted to your server, just the cross server anonymous nature of the wow solution for both battlegrounds and dungeons really didn't sit right with me.

@Kidavenger said:

I suppose the dungeon finder isn't that bad if it's restricted to your server, just the cross server anonymous nature of the wow solution for both battlegrounds and dungeons really didn't sit right with me.

I think it would be a much larger issue if MMOs didn't already have a mechanism in place for forming relationships in game (i.e., guilds).

Yay for cross server dungeon finders. Spamming "LFG" in chat does not build a community, gameplay should take priority over anything else, and those who still want player interaction can do so within a guild

Any kind of mechanism that facilitates grouping in a multiplayer game is a good thing. Obviously such systems always need refinement to group together like-minded players with a similar skill-level. Having a mechanism operate cross server is good because a lot of servers don't always have the requisite number of people and doing this reduces queue times significantly.

The arguments against LFG appear silly because they are. People opposing easier grouping in an mmorpg are completely delusional or just nostalgic about worse systems, and believe in a false "sense of community" in servers that never really existed. In an mmorpg, if I like someone the normal practice is to add them to your friends list, do raids/dungeons/pvp with them. If you find a bunch of people sharing your interests in the game you join a guild. That's actually where the real "community" in an mmorpg lies.

However there are some people that feel that mmorpg's should be some kind of facebook socializing game, so they want failtown trade chat pugs and the absolute lowest end of guilds (levelling guilds, "family"/"friend"/"casual" type guilds) to be the end-all of community. LFG/LFR actually wrecks this lowest tier of the community since a lot of people just use LFR/LFG instead of dealing with the ineptitude and hassle in such pugs and guilds. Champion casuals of these will vigorously object to LFG/LFR, naturally.

LFG/LFR is a huge success and it doesn't affect any decent raiding guild or competant pug/gdkp. It's worse loot, from easier bosses; for casual or bad players that want to experience multiplayer raid content quickly without having to deal with the bullshit of ninjaing failpugs and drama-filled low-end guilds. Nothing wrong with that.

@ajamafalous said:

I'd love a server-specific Dungeon Finder, but, as has been said, cross-server dungeon finders just turn the game into "sit in the capital city and wait for queues to pop so I can spend 30-45 minutes grouped with people I'll never see again."

That is really no different than now.

You can never find groups on planets for flashpoints. You have to goto the fleet and hope people want to do the one you want to do.