Something MMO Veterans Need to Understand

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Fish_Face_McGee

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#1  Edited By Fish_Face_McGee

This hasn't been endemic of my entire time playing SWTOR but just today I had two instances that I think warrant discussion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's crazy to say that SWTOR is many people's first real MMO experience. Perhaps cut those people some slack when they ask dumb/noobie questions. Also, don't assume people know the terminology you're using. I was doing Hammer Station and two people got into a fight over Channeling, and I still don't even know what it means, just that both people fighting were sure the other person didn't know what it meant, either.

Just a thought.

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Masin

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#2  Edited By Masin
@Fish_Face_McGee you might be right in that assumption, but, quite a few players are wow veterens, and the fact you didn't know what channeling was shows me that you didn't play wow. These players have grown accustomed to using terminology in a place where everyone understands, so they assume it will be the same here. And for the record, channeling refers to a spell that has to be cast continously to hold a steam of dps.
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raiet

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#3  Edited By raiet

@Fish_Face_McGee: http://www.wowwiki.com/Channeling

Basically channeling is a type of spell or skill that you must remain stationary to use. It usually casts instantly, but you must stay still until the bar is used up to get the most "ticks" out of it.

And I agree with you. Elitism ruins everything really, but it's especially prevalent in online gaming.

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CL60

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#4  Edited By CL60

I was dead and nobody was rezzing me one time, and I said I need a rez, and they all took at as I need a rest, then they all went AFK.

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Masin

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#5  Edited By Masin

@CL60 said:

I was dead and nobody was rezzing me one time, and I said I need a rez, and they all took at as I need a rest, then they all went AFK.

As sad as that is, I would have laughed my ass off before raging

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StrikeALight

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#6  Edited By StrikeALight

@CL60 said:

I was dead and nobody was rezzing me one time, and I said I need a rez, and they all took at as I need a rest, then they all went AFK.

Haha, thats actually pretty funny.

I lack the patience nowadays to fully enjoy MMOs. I rather keep them at arms length and remember fondly of my times in EQ and FFXI.

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71Ranchero

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#7  Edited By 71Ranchero

The vocal community is the WORST part of MMO's. Just get in a good guild and tune out the idiot tweens. These guys are the same people you are muting on Xbox Live.

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Jadeskye

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#8  Edited By Jadeskye

@CL60 said:

I was dead and nobody was rezzing me one time, and I said I need a rez, and they all took at as I need a rest, then they all went AFK.

sorry bro but thats hilarious XP

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Ulain

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#9  Edited By Ulain

As an MMO player for the past...11 years (yikes), I'm glad I realize that this is going to be a new MMO for a lot of people, and I try to be patient with noobies, and I'll even try to explain things as best as I can to get it across to them.

Still, it's pretty frustrating when someone doesn't pipe up that they are indeed new, or haven't been into X instance before and don't know the fights.

If they rage at you when you're perfectly honest about being new, they aren't worth your time anyway.

This game is new to ALL of us despite being an MMO, so find a guild or just add people you grouped with to friends. Same-server relations are a breath of fresh air now that WoW fully supports anonymous douchebaggery.

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CaptainCody

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#10  Edited By CaptainCody

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

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Ulain

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#11  Edited By Ulain

Based on that rant of yours, I'm guessing you can't tell the difference between new players and "baddies".

Comparing someone's ability to play video and how they function in real life? Really?

All hail, king douche.

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byterunner

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#12  Edited By byterunner

@CaptainCody: There's a difference to what you do (whatever it is you do) and using Jargon that people have never fucking heard. When you're in a early instances or flashpoint whatever, and you have some WoW vets with you, and they start spewing Jargon they don't take time to explain to a new mmo player, you cant just go, "yo wait a few minutes while I google this jargon."

MMO lingo is immense, I've played mmos for a while, and I still don't know everything. Also, I highly doubt this guy has played for 100s of hours. And I doubt any newbie mmo player you rage at for not knowing every damn mechanic and jargon has played for 100s of hours also.

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TheHumanDove

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#13  Edited By TheHumanDove

@CaptainCody said:

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

Wait, you're serious? Wow. Just wow. Also, for your benefit DURRR TARDS!!!

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scarace360

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#14  Edited By scarace360

theres a bigger problem than this right now and it is fucking idiots have turned general chat into a worse barrens chat.

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Adamsons

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#15  Edited By Adamsons
@CaptainCody said:
 
One of the biggest issues with MMO's and RPGs in general, though it isnt as much of an issue in single player games because of the lack of benchmarking, is that they are full of convoluted and unintuitive systems. This is something that Blizzard especially have been punching themselves in the head with and have been trying to navigate around, even in the face of the shitstorms fans tend to throw.
 
Easy examples are that stats, talents, skills etc aren't directly comparable or the relative weight isn't initially apparent -- 1% haste or 1% crit? 10 str or 50 attack power? +5% damage on my main nuke or +25% on a less frequently used spell? Then you have the contributions of imbalances - sorry your class/spec isn't competitive. A lot of this data has to be extensively modeled and is frequently shifting. 
 
Another issue is functionality not delivered by the game that could be deemed necessary -- WoW has voice chat but no damage meter, hell it didnt have a threat meter in the default UI for years. 
 
My point is that these games really do not fully support players, when a veteran player resubs to WoW, often the first things they will do is check Elitist Jerks for class/spec balance and download whatever mods are the current necessities. It isn't endemic of good game design and it isn't surprising why newer players are often very suboptimal and get hated on for being so.
 
Edit - for the record I am a serial min-maxer, but I don't find it difficult to empathize with bad players, though some are incredible.
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Seppli

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#16  Edited By Seppli

It's usually new players raging at veterans for trying to explain them the game, when they obviously don't know what they're doing.

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devilzrule27

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#17  Edited By devilzrule27

I enjoy running around not having a clue as to what I am doing. Then again I don't play PvP or group with any people I don't know. Of course the people I group with also have no idea what they are doing but we still have a blast.

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#18  Edited By RIDEBIRD

@CaptainCody: Couldn't agree more.

For those of you complaining, that's kind of how you get after playing on a somewhat high level (well, pretty low in the spectra of things, but raiding normals several times a week at least) trying to lead a guild/lead raids and having incompetent idiots ruining everything for you, time and time again.

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Moreau_MD

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#19  Edited By Moreau_MD

@Fish_Face_McGee said:

This hasn't been endemic of my entire time playing SWTOR but just today I had two instances that I think warrant discussion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's crazy to say that SWTOR is many people's first real MMO experience. Perhaps cut those people some slack when they ask dumb/noobie questions. Also, don't assume people know the terminology you're using. I was doing Hammer Station and two people got into a fight over Channeling, and I still don't even know what it means, just that both people fighting were sure the other person didn't know what it meant, either.

Just a thought.

lol I think this might have been me guys. Was one of the two people fighting also talking about tanking? My name in game is Ataxexes by the way. I wasn't really 'fighting' I was just trying to figure out what the other guy meant by the word 'channeling'- I didn't understand his interpretation of it either but he chose to be a dick about it instead of explaining, so ho hum. I agree with you totally by the way- I always try to be helpful if someone doesn't understand.

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Grimluck343

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#20  Edited By Grimluck343

@CaptainCody said:

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

I think a lot of people are going to give you shit for this, but I know exactly what you are talking about. This is "bitter vet" syndrome and it's where all MMO vets eventually end up (I know I did). I just quit before it got to the point where I found myself being pissed off at newbies instead of wanting to help them like I did in the past because I just didn't have the patience to weed out the potential good players from the idiots.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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I wish people had some patience before a tough pull to actually let me mark. And then I wish the dps could keep it in their pants and not break the CC every single time.

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cornbredx

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#22  Edited By cornbredx
@Seppli said:

It's usually new players raging at veterans for trying to explain them the game, when they obviously don't know what they're doing.

First off, this. 
Second off no one likes to be TOLD they suck. Especially in a game that is new, but more so if they are playing and feel they understand the game and then are told they aren't playing right because they don't do things the way others want them to. That's really shitty. The healers and tanks will get it the most. You can play an MMO as long as you want; you will not learn how to heal properly or tank properly until you've done end game raids and groups for a while. Period. It is always a completely different beast from the rest of the game. At least so far in MMOs it has been: I haven't gotten to end game in SWTOR yet so we will see.
 
I've been playing MMOs since 2003 or so (whenever SWG came out, I played that for a number of years from almost the beginning). I am ok with someone being new and consider myself quite helpful. I was even a mentor when SWG took itself seriously and had a mentoring like program. 
The problem comes with the fact that its a Multiplayer game which means the person you are talking to can be incompetent and that's not always their fault. There are young children that play them too and sometimes they want to do group stuff also- MMOs do push you to do so. 
These are really difficult to deal with because you never know how to handle it. They won't get what you tell them to do for a while, and most don't have the capacity to pay attention enough to care. It's just how kids are. There's something to be said for hitting them with reality (as often they will be most likely to pull aggro, ninja loot, or some other thing but they may not actually be doing it on purpose). In those cases it takes more time and effort then most want to give- as a lot of us adult or older players just got off work and don't want to deal with that. 
The only logical answer is to not group if you don't want to deal with people. PUGs (pick up groups- means people you randomly group with as opposed to grouping with people you know) are always going to be a random encounter of either super serious, elitists, ragers, griefers, or some other assortment of player. They're not always that bad, but with a blind choice you don't ever know what you will get and it can often result in a bad experience. In those cases all you can do is leave and start over. Most players wont be that counter to your playstyle. 
The best advice is to get into a guild that is friendly, mature and willing to be helpful to a new person. There is something to be said about figuring things out on your own, and this cannot be understated. Do not expect other players to want to hold your hand (especially if the game is new and they have other things to do) but you should never be afraid to ask questions. Good guilds help foster an enjoyable experience. 
 
MMOs are a varied beast, and often difficult to get into especially now a days where they are as popular as they tend to be and often require much more knowledge and concentration then an average game. The most important thing you can do is care about knowing your character, setting up your character how you want to play, and if you want to play with people you don't know make it clear you are open to suggestion but you are learning. If you pay attention and learn from your mistakes you will more often then not be fine. Ignore assholes and get in a good/friendly guild that fits your style of play. You will pick up the jargon and what not a long the way. 
 
Hopefully this is helpful to someone, as it is long, and if its TL:DR then you didn't want to know what I had to say anyway. =)
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CaptainCody

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#23  Edited By CaptainCody

I think the people who understand what I am getting at are the ones agreeing with me.

You highly overestimate how little 100 hours of MMO time is. I had 40 days of play time on my druid in WoW alone, that is about 1000 hours. Hell, even at this point with how simplified level capping in WoW is, it would still take you about 100 hours to hit the max level. Jeff himself also said he had a few days in SWTOR, and it didn't sound like he had progressed all too far either.

If you read my rant you would understand that I do make a difference. When I make alts I am sure to help out the new players, when I am on a level capped character I have no intention of holding hands and carrying someone who has already sunk in heaps of time into a game. Which is why I will make a real life comparison. When expectations are made of you and simple commands or directions are to be followed for the benefit of the people you're playing with and you manage to make a mockery of said things then why should I believe you can function any better in real life? People with plenty of video game experience and are naturally very smart will be more inclined to do better at a game that asks this much of you to do.

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Scrawnto

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#24  Edited By Scrawnto

I remember when I first played WoW, and I commented on killing something a couple levels higher than me. Some veteran in the chat was like "big-fucking-deal. Killing mobs over your level isn't hard." And I replied, "Well, it wasn't a mob. It was just one dude." And then he went all elitist asshole on me for not knowing that "mob"s meaning in MMO lingo is completely different from its meaning in English.

So yeah, veterans can be douchebags.

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Ihmishylje

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#25  Edited By Ihmishylje

MMOs are tough.

I'm not particularly good at games, and I don't really want to be. Playing games is something I do for fun. I play games for the story, the characters and dialogue, but also to experience an interactive world that no other medium can provide. Leveling your character in an RPG is fun, it gives you an opportunity to customize your character to suit your needs and a sense of progression that compliments the progression of the story and makes you feel like you aren't just wasting your time playing a game (even when you kind of are).

This is something that MMOs don't do very well. Every class has a couple of optimal specs at any given time, and you better be using them accordingly at all times. Single player RPGs are forgiving in this sense. But in an mmo, what's the point of speccing your character, if what skills you choose and how you choose to play the game can make the game virtually unplayable? Why not just have a couple of default builds and pick one from those. And why not go one step further, and make only one way, in which to play the game, available.

I always feel very self conscious when I'm playing online, whether it be coop or an mmo or something. I hate to think that people consider me an idiot just because I have little to no interest in topping leaderboards or something. I wouldn't want it to reflect badly on me as a person, but I guess that's how it goes in an online environment. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to occasionally group up for an instance or whatever.

I don't consider myself an idiot, or incapable of learning. I'd just rather use my mental faculties and limited time to learn something a little more useful in life than excelling at a video game. To me, that's almost the equivalent of being really good at listening to music. What's the point? These are ways we spend our free time and hope to enjoy ourselves doing so. Maybe we even learn something about ourselves and the world surrounding us while doing so. But it has little application in the real world. And being elitist about it doesn't help anyone, it just makes you seem like a dick.

Maybe there should be "laidback" servers for those who don't mind an occasional party wipe and will tolerate people who aren't specced to perfection and don't always know which icons to click on for the most effective game play. I don't play games to be "effective". In fact, it's kind of the opposite. It's downtime.

I'm enjoying my time with SWTOR, but it's mainly because I solo all the time. I've felt pretty miserable when I tried to group up. Maybe I'll get some real life friends to buy the game and do the instances with them. At least they won't shit on me for not having optimal dps or whatever.

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Ihmishylje

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#26  Edited By Ihmishylje

@CornBREDX: Also, this was a pretty good post. Maybe I should try to seek out a guild that doesn't take itself too seriously.

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byterunner

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#27  Edited By byterunner

@CaptainCody: First off, I find your first sentence highly amusing, its kind of a "well duh" statement if you will. I'm not really hating on you, just found that sentence really amusing.

Now, I wasn't talking about cap. I was saying that many of these players that get hate on and quit don't play for 100 hours or more. If that means they don't get to cap, than fine, they didn't get to cap. I wasn't saying players at cap level. I was saying that many newbie players that get hate on don't have the amount of time you have under your belt so I think its unreasonable to hate on these players.

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Tumbler

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#28  Edited By Tumbler

I'm kind of a noob when it comes to group etiquette in places like flashpoints. Didn't realize the difference between need and greed nor that it was considered "stealing" or ninja'ng loot when you need something that your character cannot use. Some players get upset when you take things that your companion is able to use which I thought was a little odd.

The only reason I know all this now is because the players were kind enough to tell me when I did these things. So now when I'm in a group i'll only need things I can use myself and i'll greed everything else. Pass on things I have no interest in I suppose, but everything is worth credits...

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CaptainCody

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#29  Edited By CaptainCody

@byterunner said:

@CaptainCody: First off, I find your first sentence highly amusing, its kind of a "well duh" statement if you will. I'm not really hating on you, just found that sentence really amusing.

Now, I wasn't talking about cap. I was saying that many of these players that get hate on and quit don't play for 100 hours or more. If that means they don't get to cap, than fine, they didn't get to cap. I wasn't saying players at cap level. I was saying that many newbie players that get hate on don't have the amount of time you have under your belt so I think its unreasonable to hate on these players.

At this point, if the issue at hand is whether or not you have enough time to play an MMO, you shouldn't play an MMO. To your former point, I understand what you mean and the way some people act can't be helped. Which is why I'm sure to help out new players and assist in modeling them into destructive forces of nature. Alas, people who have invested considerable amount of time into MMOs shouldn't get the same treatment and should have the training wheels put well to the side by endgame.

I certainly agree with you about people being dicks to new players, but the new players are equally at fault when they refuse to accept advice and be dicks themselves about the whole process, such is MMOs unfortunately. This is why Giant Bomb guilds exist, to conquer all video games across the galaxy.

@Ihmishylje said:

@CornBREDX: Also, this was a pretty good post. Maybe I should try to seek out a guild that doesn't take itself too seriously.

It's kind of a weird thing, most social guilds like that are composed of pre-established friendships and won't hesitate to kick you if you so much as besmirch one of their bros. You're better off getting into a sort of serious guild and becoming friends with the people in it than getting into a guild that prides itself on playing a game but not really at the same time.

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Rhaknar

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#30  Edited By Rhaknar

there is being a new player, and there is being completely oblivious to things that are just common sense.

Was doing a heroic 4 quest (which at late 20s start o actually be quite hard as you know) and this one guy just kep pulling packs, dying from standing in fire, breaking CCs, etc. We kept telling him what not to do, surprisingly calmly for a pug, but he just kept doing the same shit over and over again, and saying "healer?" when he died. The last straw was at the end of the quest, the boss had a constant AOE pulse and he, as a mercenary, aka a ranged dps class, was standing near the boss with the tank and another melee just taking it, which was awesome for me the healer as you might imagine.

I understand being new at a game, I dont understand watching your life bar deplete rapidly and not do anything about it. Its like playing a shooter and not take cover when youre almost dead, its not rocket science

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Fish_Face_McGee

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#31  Edited By Fish_Face_McGee

@CaptainCody: Here's my thing. In my limited experience, "advice" from experienced players boils down to incomprehensible (to a noobie like myself) jargon couched in rage. Now clearly, that's a real risk and consequence to PUGs (which I now know the meaning of), but I also got a shitty (as in sarcastic and douchey vs. incorrect or incomprehensible) response to asking about the viability of specific rest-area from a member of a Giant Bomb guild. That's why I started this thread; for how good the GB community is, it isn't perfect.

Especially in a game like SWTOR, which is largely solo-able, it is irresponsible to expect players know ANY terminology, unless that knowledge is dished out by the game itself. And with PUGs having such a high opportunity for hostility, it's entirely possible for people, who then avoid group instances, to get to end content and not know anything. I LFG'd within group chat for just about every Heroic/Flashpoint I've gotten. Unless there happens to be people who are keeping precisely the same pace as me, there aren't always going to be guild-members to play with.

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Rattle618

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#32  Edited By Rattle618

You`ll pick up the lingo eventually,  just dont pay attention to assholes.

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Seppli

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#33  Edited By Seppli

@Ihmishylje said:

MMOs are tough.

I'm not particularly good at games, and I don't really want to be. Playing games is something I do for fun. I play games for the story, the characters and dialogue, but also to experience an interactive world that no other medium can provide. Leveling your character in an RPG is fun, it gives you an opportunity to customize your character to suit your needs and a sense of progression that compliments the progression of the story and makes you feel like you aren't just wasting your time playing a game (even when you kind of are).

This is something that MMOs don't do very well. Every class has a couple of optimal specs at any given time, and you better be using them accordingly at all times. Single player RPGs are forgiving in this sense. But in an mmo, what's the point of speccing your character, if what skills you choose and how you choose to play the game can make the game virtually unplayable? Why not just have a couple of default builds and pick one from those. And why not go one step further, and make only one way, in which to play the game, available.

I always feel very self conscious when I'm playing online, whether it be coop or an mmo or something. I hate to think that people consider me an idiot just because I have little to no interest in topping leaderboards or something. I wouldn't want it to reflect badly on me as a person, but I guess that's how it goes in an online environment. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to occasionally group up for an instance or whatever.

I don't consider myself an idiot, or incapable of learning. I'd just rather use my mental faculties and limited time to learn something a little more useful in life than excelling at a video game. To me, that's almost the equivalent of being really good at listening to music. What's the point? These are ways we spend our free time and hope to enjoy ourselves doing so. Maybe we even learn something about ourselves and the world surrounding us while doing so. But it has little application in the real world. And being elitist about it doesn't help anyone, it just makes you seem like a dick.

Maybe there should be "laidback" servers for those who don't mind an occasional party wipe and will tolerate people who aren't specced to perfection and don't always know which icons to click on for the most effective game play. I don't play games to be "effective". In fact, it's kind of the opposite. It's downtime.

I'm enjoying my time with SWTOR, but it's mainly because I solo all the time. I've felt pretty miserable when I tried to group up. Maybe I'll get some real life friends to buy the game and do the instances with them. At least they won't shit on me for not having optimal dps or whatever.

I simply find the whole "I'm in it for the fun." excuse for being a bad player absolutely void. Developing skills is always part of the fun of pretty much everything in life.

It's great expectations that are to the detriment of my enjoyment. The moment I expect my fellow man to be as good as me - I'll be disappointed. The moment I expect to be better than everybody else - I'll be disappointed. The trick is to keep expectations at bay and maintain high levels of attention and care and thought throughout.

I full well know I'm not 'the best', but I certainly strife to do my best and get better. As soon as I lose that pursuit of excellence, I have to move on. Sloppy gameplay is a clear indication of fatigue. In the case of an MMO like SW:TOR, I'll google my class and read a guide or two and some forum posts. If I'm actually raiding in a high-end PvE guild, I'd do a lot more of that. Nobody expects more than basic understanding of core mechanics and plain common sense in a PUG environment. Hell - I can stand stupid people in PUGs for the brief time I spend with them. I can't stand being in a steady raidgroup with complete failures though.

Hence, for higher end gameplay, be it PvE or PvP, find a guild which takes the 'weeding out' seriously enough to keep certain personnel standards. Usually competent and reliable players are good people too.

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Mariek430

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#34  Edited By Mariek430

Considering how easy SWTOR is compared to most other MMOs, I don't understand why it takes people so long to figure shit out. Like you cant even really fuck up a talent spec if you look at the trees for 2 minutes. you "get this to kill mobs better" or "this to kill idiots in warzones better"

Helping new players is all fine and dandy until they flip their shit on you for, in the nicest way possible telling them to stop keyboard turning and start actually binding hotkeys. Though the game doesn't really punish you for not keyboard turning seeing as how you autoface whatever you're casting something at, making it impossible to run behind someone to cancel their cast which is pretty retarded.

Thankfully the leveling Flashpoints are pretty joke and as either the tank or healer you can carry a group if people are acting retarded.

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ReVamp

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#35  Edited By ReVamp

@CL60 said:

I was dead and nobody was rezzing me one time, and I said I need a rez, and they all took at as I need a rest, then they all went AFK.

LOL, that shit must suck son! God knows why they actually interpreted it as that, but laughing at other's misfortune is always a good laugh.

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Ihmishylje

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#36  Edited By Ihmishylje

@Seppli said:

I simply find the whole "I'm in it for the fun." excuse for being a bad player absolutely void. Developing skills is always part of the fun of pretty much everything in life.

It's great expectations that are to the detriment of my enjoyment. The moment I expect my fellow man to be as good as me - I'll be disappointed. The moment I expect to be better than everybody else - I'll be disappointed. The trick is to keep expectations at bay and maintain high levels of attention and care and thought throughout.

I full well know I'm not 'the best', but I certainly strife to do my best and get better. As soon as I lose that pursuit of excellence, I have to move on. Sloppy gameplay is a clear indication of fatigue. In the case of an MMO like SW:TOR, I'll google my class and read a guide or two and some forum posts. If I'm actually raiding in a high-end PvE guild, I'd do a lot more of that. Nobody expects more than basic understanding of core mechanics and plain common sense in a PUG environment. Hell - I can stand stupid people in PUGs for the brief time I spend with them. I can't stand being in a steady raidgroup with complete failures though.

Hence, for higher end gameplay, be it PvE or PvP, find a guild which takes the 'weeding out' seriously enough to keep certain personnel standards. Usually competent and reliable players are good people too.

What you say about expectations is true. That's why I think people should find like-minded people to play with. Games that focus on co-operative multiplayer, should, in my opinion, provide an easy way to do this. Different servers to suit different ambitions, for example.

Developing skills isn't necessarily a part of the fun. Not for me, anyway. Sure, if you aim to be good at something further down the line, then yes, you need to learn stuff. If I want to work in a specific profession, I have to get a degree in it, or work my way up the ladder. If I want to be a ninja, I have to start working on my martial arts skills. But stuff like that takes months, years, even decades to learn. I'll play a game for a few days, usually. If it's an mmo, a few weeks, probably. After that I'll forget about it. Well, about the mechanics, anyway. If the game is good, the experience will stay with me.

Games shouldn't require you to read shit on message boards just so you can enjoy the experience. Other forms of entertainment don't ask this of me, why should games be any different? Maybe there's just a fundamental difference in how I approach the medium to that of yours. I don't look at them like I would, say, a sport. For me a game is more like a book than a sport -- if I have to study literary theory to understand what the author is trying to say in their novel, then I view the novel as a failure. Knowledge is rarely a bad thing to have, but to expect "casuals" to be fully invested in every spare time activity they partake in, is simply too much to ask.

It's the equivalent of expecting someone who takes a couple of fitness boxing classes a week, in order to get into shape, to be a good boxer.

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Ulain

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#37  Edited By Ulain

@CaptainCody said:

@byterunner said:

@CaptainCody: First off, I find your first sentence highly amusing, its kind of a "well duh" statement if you will. I'm not really hating on you, just found that sentence really amusing.

Now, I wasn't talking about cap. I was saying that many of these players that get hate on and quit don't play for 100 hours or more. If that means they don't get to cap, than fine, they didn't get to cap. I wasn't saying players at cap level. I was saying that many newbie players that get hate on don't have the amount of time you have under your belt so I think its unreasonable to hate on these players.

At this point, if the issue at hand is whether or not you have enough time to play an MMO, you shouldn't play an MMO. To your former point, I understand what you mean and the way some people act can't be helped. Which is why I'm sure to help out new players and assist in modeling them into destructive forces of nature. Alas, people who have invested considerable amount of time into MMOs shouldn't get the same treatment and should have the training wheels put well to the side by endgame.

I certainly agree with you about people being dicks to new players, but the new players are equally at fault when they refuse to accept advice and be dicks themselves about the whole process, such is MMOs unfortunately. This is why Giant Bomb guilds exist, to conquer all video games across the galaxy.

In regards to your first sentence, unless you start paying for their subscription time, they are allowed to play as much or as little time as they please. MMOs rarely take any sort of skill these days; it only takes repetition of the same actions and scenarios and figuring out which one works best.

It does sound like you are just burnt out on either wow or mmos in general, as you seem to be acting like everyone should already be max level; I *want* to agree that by that time people should know what they are doing, but you and I both know how easy it is to hit max with 0 interaction with other players, and THAT is when they will start learning how CC works, or passing the friggin Huttball.

I was ready to rage at my group in hammer station earlier; 21 powertech we asked to tank who just sits until someone else pulls.

Another 15 PT who I don't believe once used Rocket Punch; just spammed missiles every fight.

And the Sith Sorc who when asked to heal, proceeded to spam lightning at the last boss and finally try healing people around 10% health.

I tried my best to get them into their roles; we 2-shotted that last boss and I could not hit Quit Group any faster.

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#38  Edited By Oldirtybearon

I guess I just play on an under-populated server, but everyone I've grouped with or run into have been pretty cool. Some don't talk much, and some ask me a lot of questions. If I know what they're talking about, I answer them. If I don't, I tell them so.

Haven't met a dick in TOR yet, but I know they're out there. proves it.

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SmilingPig

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#39  Edited By SmilingPig

I closed my general chat, this game as a strong single player story (so far).

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#40  Edited By Robo

I have a ton of patience, and I don't mind answering questions about things that are understandably confusing.

But I will NOT answer people who just refuse to READ.

Someone took the time to write out all these tutorials, quests, tooltips/descriptions, codex entries, etc. READ them.

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#41  Edited By CaptainCody

@animathias said:

@CaptainCody said:

This is why Giant Bomb guilds exist, to conquer all video games across the galaxy.

I was pretty much turned away (ignored for 45 minutes after an hour long queue - I was asked 5 or so questions, then my last answer was ignored) from joining the Giant Bomb guild because I mainly pvp'd in WoW, even though I played WoW for 5-6 years and just about every single MMO that's come out in the past 2 years. Just because my guild had disbanded before I hit the level cap, my friends left the game, and a full time job stopped any ideas of raiding pretty quickly. So because I played alts and Battlegrounds for years, I was ignored trying to get into a guild, even though I knew my class inside and out.

From everything I've seen, that's the last place I'd give any new player the advice to go to.

This was a problem with one of the WoW guilds also where, judging by its original thread, it seemed like the wrong people were in charge. Sounds like the same ordeal is going on in whatever SWTOR GB guild we have. By all means make a new GB guild or voice your issues about the specific members, don't let people on this site give you shit like they're special running a guild.

@KingWilly said:

I guess I just play on an under-populated server, but everyone I've grouped with or run into have been pretty cool. Some don't talk much, and some ask me a lot of questions. If I know what they're talking about, I answer them. If I don't, I tell them so.

Haven't met a dick in TOR yet, but I know they're out there. proves it.

Amazing how you have complete missed the points I have made. Enjoy wallowing in your stupidity like you always have when you shit up threads. I also never implied I am playing SWTOR. It's a WoW clone and a time sink. Unless you have never played WoW, I don't understand why you would play SWTOR unless you have a passion for the universe.

@Ulain: You make fair points which I feel like is becoming a problem with MMOs. That is, they don't have to be MMOs if you don't want them to be, and that is fucking dumb.

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#42  Edited By Oldirtybearon

@CaptainCody: What points? You speak like an elitist jackass with an elitist view within a genre of multiplayer games that is plagued by elitist dicks. You decided to take a giant shit in a thread where the OP was annoyed that MMO elitists do what they always do - act like a dick, start shit, and then bitch because the people they're playing aren't glorious, infallible gaming gods. God forbid a newbie has the audacity to play on your server in this game. The fucking nerve of that simpering plebeian! I mean, asking for advice! Jesus Christ what will they do next, ask for help on a tough quest?

Your self-congratulating rant only said two things - you're a dick, and you have a rather high opinion of your skill in MMO's. I'm glad that your selective memory can't remember a time when you dived head-first into an MMO and had no fucking clue what you were doing. Most people aren't as arrogant as to think they were even "competent" when they started. But, right, to you, someone is a fucking idiot if they don't pick up on everything within the first few days of playing.

As for The Old Republic, the fact that you "can't understand" why someone would play The Old Republic if they've played WoW explains a hell of a lot. You're looking at this game in completely the wrong light. It's not about the PVP or the high-level raiding, although from what I understand TOR does offer those things. This game is about the universe and you taking your role and carving your own spot out of the galaxy. It's about the class stories, It's an MMO that's about your journey through well-written class plots and world plots, as opposed to you being another nameless automaton lost in a sea of nameless automatons. Every player matters in TOR, and everyone is given ample opportunity to shine in Flashpoints and Heroic Quests. Everyone has a fair shot at determining the outcome of a group quest, and everyone is integral to success. Instead of the game going to a cutscene and saying "Heroic NPC #3213 saved the day, and maybe you helped a bit," the game actively recognises not only your role in events, but others as well. I fail to see how that is not a huge step forward for the genre, when one of the most levied complaints against MMOs is how the player character is fucking meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

But hey, what could I possibly know? I'm just another plebeian idiot playing Baby's First MMO, right? No one could possibly enjoy this game because it's set a new standard for story content in an MMO. Or because their character is actually important, recognised, and treated with the weight the class stories demand. Nah, 'course not.

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#43  Edited By Levio

Honestly, MMO's are the most fun when a player is just learning things.

Once I've got all (or most) of an MMO's system's figured out, that's when everything starts feeling like a grind.

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I have a lot of patience in MMO's, I try to speak in normal words when I notice the group, or certain members, aren't as MMO acustomed as I am.
 
But there's one thing that gets to me.
How, fucking, slow, people, play.
 
They go the wrong direction, suddenly start following another player that walked past (BUT THAT TWILEK LOOKED LIKE YOUR HUMAN) or generally make you wait 15 minutes as they try to decide if they should wear a certain item or something else.
 
I wanna help, I wanna teach, I wanna have fun, but by god PLEASE be a little time efficient!
Either ask for help with such mundane things, or wait till we're out of the questing areas.
 
Besides that I really don't care and I will do my best to help!

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#45  Edited By huntad

@raiet said:

@Fish_Face_McGee: http://www.wowwiki.com/Channeling

Basically channeling is a type of spell or skill that you must remain stationary to use. It usually casts instantly, but you must stay still until the bar is used up to get the most "ticks" out of it.

And I agree with you. Elitism ruins everything really, but it's especially prevalent in online gaming.

Yeah, I played a lot of WoW and know all of the acronyms, but I don't become enraged at the sight of someone who knows almost nothing about MMOs. I had to learn all of this from other people as well, so I feel it's my duty to help them dudes out. I always let them know that they can PM me whenever. It's the only way to keep a community strong and thriving.

To add a little backstory: my first day playing the trial version of World of Warcraft, I was just wandering around doing quests in the starting area. I had no idea how to do some things or what things in the chat meant. It wasn't until my last trial day that I bumped into this one dude who knew what was up. He taught me a ton of things that I had no idea about in the world. It was like he pulled the curtains back, and I could finally see everything that the game had to offer. It was cool, because we ended up going to a lot of different places and I got to see how enormous the world was, and the things I could do with a payed account. If it wasn't for this dude, whom I can't even name, I would have never bought a subscription and probably wouldn't have gotten into MMOs in the first place.

To sum it all up, I try to be like that dude whenever people don't know wtf they're doing in MMOs. True story.

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#46  Edited By Ulain

You know what I just realized, sadly, is that this isn't a unique problem to MMOs and gaming in general.

What I mean is, have you ever known people, usually at a job, that are pretty much your "superiors", but think you should know exactly what they know from Day 1? Most recently I had this at a Burger place I worked at, where the service was In and then Out.

I think it's just in the nature of people to forget that they had to learn things as well.

Anyway, this thread has probably gone off topic with anecdotes and people yelling at each other. Elitists and noobs just need to be checked in moderation I think.

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Ihmishylje

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#47  Edited By Ihmishylje

@KingWilly said:

@CaptainCody: What points? You speak like an elitist jackass with an elitist view within a genre of multiplayer games that is plagued by elitist dicks. You decided to take a giant shit in a thread where the OP was annoyed that MMO elitists do what they always do - act like a dick, start shit, and then bitch because the people they're playing aren't glorious, infallible gaming gods. God forbid a newbie has the audacity to play on your server in this game. The fucking nerve of that simpering plebeian! I mean, asking for advice! Jesus Christ what will they do next, ask for help on a tough quest?

Your self-congratulating rant only said two things - you're a dick, and you have a rather high opinion of your skill in MMO's. I'm glad that your selective memory can't remember a time when you dived head-first into an MMO and had no fucking clue what you were doing. Most people aren't as arrogant as to think they were even "competent" when they started. But, right, to you, someone is a fucking idiot if they don't pick up on everything within the first few days of playing.

As for The Old Republic, the fact that you "can't understand" why someone would play The Old Republic if they've played WoW explains a hell of a lot. You're looking at this game in completely the wrong light. It's not about the PVP or the high-level raiding, although from what I understand TOR does offer those things. This game is about the universe and you taking your role and carving your own spot out of the galaxy. It's about the class stories, It's an MMO that's about your journey through well-written class plots and world plots, as opposed to you being another nameless automaton lost in a sea of nameless automatons. Every player matters in TOR, and everyone is given ample opportunity to shine in Flashpoints and Heroic Quests. Everyone has a fair shot at determining the outcome of a group quest, and everyone is integral to success. Instead of the game going to a cutscene and saying "Heroic NPC #3213 saved the day, and maybe you helped a bit," the game actively recognises not only your role in events, but others as well. I fail to see how that is not a huge step forward for the genre, when one of the most levied complaints against MMOs is how the player character is fucking meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

But hey, what could I possibly know? I'm just another plebeian idiot playing Baby's First MMO, right? No one could possibly enjoy this game because it's set a new standard for story content in an MMO. Or because their character is actually important, recognised, and treated with the weight the class stories demand. Nah, 'course not.

Touché.

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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@animathias Which Giant Bomb guild are you talking about? Bothans have been the picture of friendliness, and I would know because I'm usually a prick and I've been on my best behavior.
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#49  Edited By Anund

First, something about my background. My first MMO was Dark Age of Camelot (go Midgard/Percival!). I still remember the first time I logged in. It was a huge adventure, no one had any idea what lay around the next corner or really not even what to expect from an MMO. Sure, I bet some people had played some Everquest or Ultima Online, but there were no "MMO pros", or at least they were so few and far between they had no impact on the game.

Everyone, including myself, had to find our own way. The game forced grouping, more or less, levelling was painfully slow solo and even when resting health would recover very slowly. Soon everyone learned their roles in groups. Turns out I had chosen to be a tank and I ended up being fairly competent at it.

I remember my time starting out in DAoC very fondly. It all really was a big, huge adventure. Would it have been the same for me if, in my first group, people had been shouting at me to "cc the left add, dps the right one and tank the boss" while I had no clue wtf they were on about and then raging on me when I got it wrong? No. Probably not. Definitely not.

People have to be allowed to learn playing the game at their own pace. If you're the kind of person who spent 5 days a night raiding molten core or whatever dungeon was cool to be in in WoW (I could never find an attachment to that game) then please, don't pug. And if you do pug, don't bitch because people don't have your amazing buttonpressing skills.

I have a sore spot for elitists in MMOs. They truly are the scourge of MMOs, scaring away they new blood before they even have a chance to get started and making life a hell of a lot worse for everyone but themselves.

One final piece of advice: If you are interested in playing with slightly more mature people, in a more relaxed atmosphere, choose an RP server. There are only two conditions I will impose on you: choose a believable name and respect people who actually do RP. No one will require you participate, however.

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#50  Edited By sins_of_mosin

The guild I'm in which is all friends, co-workers, ect.. have a bunch of MMO newbs in it so its slow going at times and sometimes have to explain why something isn't the right item for them. And about the whole pug fights and such, I only do a flashpoint is 3/4 guildies and we just have to pug one spot. We've had to do that a few times and its worked very well so far. I like that there is no cross server system, people should be more respectable if they are on the same server.

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