I went trough the first 10 levels in a breeze and I was happily surprised with the game quality and the story telling, It felt like a Bioware RPG with 8 stories waiting to be played in the same universe with an MMO on top of that

Awesome in paper but goddammit it takes ages to do anything in this game. I'm level 17 now and it takes hours to go grind the zone with basically the same kill X dudes quest and grab Y amount of items.. so you can advance in the history and unlock the next dialogue cut scene.

Long story short I'm starting to feel the MMORPG burn after a couple of days, I think this game is to grindy and repetitive even for MMORPG standards do any of you guys feel the same?

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you about the grinding. I'm 6-7 levels above the content I'm doing and all I've been doing is quests and class story; and the general consensus I see based on the people around me, they are in the same boat too. I'm level 31 and just got to tattoone.

I'm with Junkerman, I am over leveled. Haven't had to grind at all. Are you doing every quest you see?

you're playing an MMO. you're supposed to like grinding.

@Junkerman said:

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you about the grinding. I'm 6-7 levels above the content I'm doing and all I've been doing is quests and class story; and the general consensus I see based on the people around me, they are in the same boat too. I'm level 31 and just got to tattoone.

Wow, and I thought I was overleveled at 27 getting to Tattoine as a sage.

Level 31 now and the grind hasn't been bad. Game flow is good, though I usually take a break after a few hours.

But then most rpgs can feel grjndy, MMO or not.

@mosdl said:

@Junkerman said:

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you about the grinding. I'm 6-7 levels above the content I'm doing and all I've been doing is quests and class story; and the general consensus I see based on the people around me, they are in the same boat too. I'm level 31 and just got to tattoone.

Wow, and I thought I was overleveled at 27 getting to Tattoine as a sage.

Level 31 now and the grind hasn't been bad. Game flow is good, though I usually take a break after a few hours.

But then most rpgs can feel grjndy, MMO or not.

Well, I'm not going to say no just right away it is probably that I'm just bad at MMOs I have 20 hours in it and I'm just level 17. I also think I'm more used to Bethesda or classic Bioware RPGs

Anyway the thing that annoy me the most is the obnoxious amount of walking you do in this game is like 50% of my time I'm walking trough a long ass corridor to do some sort of grinding.

@DonPixel said:

@mosdl said:

@Junkerman said:

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you about the grinding. I'm 6-7 levels above the content I'm doing and all I've been doing is quests and class story; and the general consensus I see based on the people around me, they are in the same boat too. I'm level 31 and just got to tattoone.

Wow, and I thought I was overleveled at 27 getting to Tattoine as a sage.

Level 31 now and the grind hasn't been bad. Game flow is good, though I usually take a break after a few hours.

But then most rpgs can feel grjndy, MMO or not.

Well, I'm not going to say no just right away it is probably that I'm just bad at MMOs I have 20 hours in it and I'm just level 17. I also think I'm more used to Bethesda or classic Bioware RPGs

Anyway the think that annoy me the most is the obnoxious amount of walking you do in this game is like 50% of my time I'm walking trough a long ass corridor.

Thats your problem right there. This isn't a regular Bioware RPG. It's an MMO and all of your complaints are what MMOs are. A lot of time is spent traveling from quest giver to the quest area then back. It sounds like your just getting one quest and going to do it then turning in and repeating rather than gathering quests because the majority of the time many quests will end up being in the same area.

Maybe I'm using the word differently but I wouldn't call it grinding if you're doing quests. So far I haven't had to run around killing mobs for hours without having a quest to do, which is good enough for me.

@DonPixel said:

Well, I'm not going to say no just right away it is probably that I'm just bad at MMOs I have 20 hours in it and I'm just level 17. I also think I'm more used to Bethesda or classic Bioware RPGs

Anyway the thing that annoy me the most is the obnoxious amount of walking you do in this game is like 50% of my time I'm walking trough a long ass corridor to do some sort of grinding.

For me it isn't the walking, its more the mobs I have to avoid sometimes, which is a MMOism that hopefully one day will go away. Skyrim had a lot of walking, so kinda used to it :)

Seems like you didn't play EverQuest back when it first came out (and I assume Ultima Online and Asheron's Call).

THAT was a grind. You darn kids have it easy, with your rap music and quest systems...seriously though, you probably just need to pick up more similar-area'd quests, or do a flash points. You're about the right level to do Hammer Station; that can give you a few more levels, and I notice enemies are MUCH easier to kill when you have a few levels on them, plus you will likely have higher ranks of your attack abilities.

Curious though, how did you guys overlevel so much? My inquisitor is 20 and I am headed to Balmorra, and even that feels about average.

I'm mixing it up. Questing. Hero-Quests. Flashpoints. Starfights. PvP. Crafting and Trading. Thus far nothing overstayed its welcome. And I'm way overleveled. I'm like 38 about to do Taris, which is 33-35 or so.

@mosdl said:

For me it isn't the walking, its more the mobs I have to avoid sometimes, which is a MMOism that hopefully one day will go away. Skyrim had a lot of walking, so kinda used to it :)

I appreciate Bethesda's fast travel more now!.. Said so, walking in Skyrim is 10 times more fun, prettier and inmersive than walking in SWTOR.

@Ulain said:

Seems like you didn't play EverQuest back when it first came out (and I assume Ultima Online and Asheron's Call).

THAT was a grind. You darn kids have it easy, with your rap music and quest systems...seriously though, you probably just need to pick up more similar-area'd quests, or do a flash points. You're about the right level to do Hammer Station; that can give you a few more levels, and I notice enemies are MUCH easier to kill when you have a few levels on them, plus you will likely have higher ranks of your attack abilities.

Curious though, how did you guys overlevel so much? My inquisitor is 20 and I am headed to Balmorra, and even that feels about average.

Noup I didn't, actually I just played WoW for a while back in BC and WOTLK. I've been trying to pac up quest for similar areas and it's working better now I think I just need to get use to the MMO rhythm.

@Seppli said:

I'm mixing it up. Questing. Hero-Quests. Flashpoints. Starfights. PvP. Crafting and Trading. Thus far nothing overstayed its welcome. And I'm way overleveled. I'm like 38 about to do Taris, which is 33-35 or so.

I need yet to try PVP, I'll do that.

@DonPixel said:

Long story short I'm starting to feel the MMORPG burn after a couple of days, I think this game is to grindy even for MMORPG standards do any of you guys feel the same?

This statement is the exact opposite of what is true.

@DonPixel: It's only grinding if you turn it into grinding in your head. Take more breaks. Don't rush through zones. Enjoy the experience. That's really the best advice. Force yourself to not skip dialogue, read codex entries, join a Warzone every now and then, go do a Flashpoint, find a crew for heroic quests...

I think MMOs quickly transform themselves into grindfests when the mentality switches from focusing on the enjoyment of the experience to constantly focusing on what you want in the future (talent points, skills, story bits, new zones, etc.). When you're so focused on what's coming up, everything in your path begins to look redundant and boring.

@Ulain said:

Seems like you didn't play EverQuest back when it first came out (and I assume Ultima Online and Asheron's Call).

THAT was a grind. You darn kids have it easy, with your rap music and quest systems...seriously though, you probably just need to pick up more similar-area'd quests, or do a flash points. You're about the right level to do Hammer Station; that can give you a few more levels, and I notice enemies are MUCH easier to kill when you have a few levels on them, plus you will likely have higher ranks of your attack abilities.

Curious though, how did you guys overlevel so much? My inquisitor is 20 and I am headed to Balmorra, and even that feels about average.

I miss that about MMORPG's. That's what made the groups so fun. Now it's in and out per quest. Back in the day you would be camping a spot and a person would come along join you, and before you knew it you had a full group and you go to camp Muire Tomb. You ended the night with a +5 to your friends list. Now you're lucky to play with 1 person for more than 10 mins let alone a full group for hours. You have to already know the people for that to happen.

GET OFF MY LAWN

I am soon level 30, the quests are identical to any other mmos, except that I care what happens, because of the dialogs and the choices.

The only thing grindy is the daily quests for PVP, space combat and flashpoint, but those are optional.

@Jams: If and when BioWare decides inter-server LFD is a good idea, it will kill community yet again. But until then, I actually just fill my Friends list every time I group. Some people have already outleveled me, but I at least feel like I could talk to these people if I wanted to.

Cross-server interactions allow everyone to be anonymous douchebags, which makes me sad.

As far as camping goes, I think most of us, even the MMO veterans, have lost that patience. I tried EQ again last year and was fairly bored sitting at the same spot, medding to full mana before 1 or 2 mobs spawned again. Times have to change and we gotta roll with the punches, yo.

@amir90 said:

I am soon level 30, the quests are identical to any other mmos, except that I care what happens, because of the dialogs and the choices.

Couldn't say it better.

Im already tired with the game. I'm lvl38 BH on hoth

Go to new planet. Have different people tell you to do the exact same thing you did 50 hours in to different looking things.

I guess I'm just new to MMOs so I'm not used to enjoying the grind, if thats even a thing. The buddies I play with who are wow veterans are loving it. I dont see it. I guess PVP is the only source of emergent gameplay in this sort of game, other than that, I feel like a hamster on a hamster wheel, no amount of VO, cinematics, and Mass Effect type dialog can mask the redundancy of the gameplay.

I'll help this one guy reach lvl 50 as I've been playing the whole game coop with him, but as soon as he reaches it, I'll take my leave.

Some quest type variation could have helped, not just collect/activate the things and kill the other things.

It's the starwars franchise, you can do so much. I would have loved having pod/swoop racing arenas on the planets, buy and upgrade your pod, race "pvp" and so on. Shit like that.

Only when I play for an extensive amount of hours I feel a little put off, but the next day I'm as eager as launchday to hop back in and go kick some Mandalorian asses.

The problem with the MMO isn't actually the quest design; every single game has the exact same quest design. Every conflict in every game is about either You Need To Go Here And Do This Gameplay Loop. The problem is that the MMO extends this loop to 200 hours as opposed to 20. I stopped playing Skyrim after 50 hours because the seams got too obvious. If Dead Space 2 was 30 hours long, it wouldn't be nearly as good. As much as we complain about modern games being too short, I think we'd start to get annoyed if they were stretched out to twice the average run time.

@Brodehouse said:

The problem with the MMO isn't actually the quest design; every single game has the exact same quest design. Every conflict in every game is about either You Need To Go Here And Do This Gameplay Loop. The problem is that the MMO extends this loop to 200 hours as opposed to 20. I stopped playing Skyrim after 50 hours because the seams got too obvious. If Dead Space 2 was 30 hours long, it wouldn't be nearly as good. As much as we complain about modern games being too short, I think we'd start to get annoyed if they were stretched out to twice the average run time.

That is true at some extend, yet the MMO mechanics are way to restricted due to technical nature of having a bunch of player sharing the same space with you.

Games like Skyrim, Dragon Age Origins, Fallout 3, Mass Effect series etc. also relay on game play loops yet they can go deep further with the narrative qualities (visuals, environments, decision consequences, etc.) and gameplay mechanics than a regular MMO can (but at least they don't relay on clicking on 1 and 2 for countless hours).

@Brodehouse said:

There are over a dozen planets in SWTOR, they each have their own feel, and they each have some real great sights... But you're in each one for a dozen hours.

This is true, Is a personal bummer for me it takes so much damn time to acomplish anything in this game.

I'm on the hoota (whatever is spelled) cartel planet and the enviroment is great, I'm enjoying the story and so on.. but even by stackying quest in a similar area it takes so freaking loooong to progress....

I think the game feels like the grind is slow because of the cutscenes, in any other MMO you are just skipping the text and moving on. It's a good workaround for Bioware, I mean if you want to see the story to the 'end' from their perspective the longer it takes you the better off they are due to the subscription model.

It's an MMO so of course there are kill x dudes, find y items, and if that feels like a grind, then this game won't change that.

Huttball.
Huttball is literally the best thing I have ever experienced in an mmo. It is so much goddamn fun, and any cool litlte wierd trick your class has, you can find a way to make extremly usefull in huttball if you try.
I do a HUGE portion of my grinding in the three pvp maps (huttball being my favourite of course).
 
Since you can que for pvp anywhere, I just constantly que for pvp while I quest, and I only do the Main class story quests skipping everything else except the occasional heroic, enter every warzone que that pops up, whatever i'm in the middle of doing, than continue the class story when the WZ is done. You can stay at about the right level to keep leveling up this way and never having to do significant side questing. If you fall behind do a full round of orange/red star fox missions every day too..

@warxsnake said:

Im already tired with the game. I'm lvl38 BH on hoth

Go to new planet. Have different people tell you to do the exact same thing you did 50 hours in to different looking things.

I guess I'm just new to MMOs so I'm not used to enjoying the grind, if thats even a thing. The buddies I play with who are wow veterans are loving it. I dont see it. I guess PVP is the only source of emergent gameplay in this sort of game, other than that, I feel like a hamster on a hamster wheel, no amount of VO, cinematics, and Mass Effect type dialog can mask the redundancy of the gameplay.

I'll help this one guy reach lvl 50 as I've been playing the whole game coop with him, but as soon as he reaches it, I'll take my leave.

Some quest type variation could have helped, not just collect/activate the things and kill the other things.

It's the starwars franchise, you can do so much. I would have loved having pod/swoop racing arenas on the planets, buy and upgrade your pod, race "pvp" and so on. Shit like that.

Well, it's all a matter of difficulty. A tightly balanced endgame bossfight takes a lot of skill and preparation by a relatively large group of people. But yes, a large part of the fascination of MMOs is about 'coaching' a character to greatness - the gameplay itself is secondary to the character progression.

That said, by the standards of MMOs, SW:TOR's gameplay is top-notch and the whole character progression aspect is better than ever, thanks to Bioware's story angle making the whole experience much more personal to each character.

I have noticed 0 grind. Which is amazing and worrying. I wonder how they will keep it going. I worry it will be like DCUO and easily completed in less then a month.

That being said, the only grind quests I've seen are the bonus quests you get and if you don't want to do them they are optional and you don't have to. It seems to put you ahead of the curve if you do them anyway from what I've noticed.

I think the dialogue and being fully voiced goes a long way to make this the most fun MMO I've played in a while- and to boot they just patched a lot of really bad bugs I've run into. So they're on top of it.

I personally do not have any complaints. =)

@warxsnake: It's good that you actually realize you aren't an MMO gamer; I think even most people who aren't still play just to have a timesink.

Single player games where gaining levels is more of a indirect factor of playing, it is not a driving force like it is in an MMO. While it may be great to enjoy the class storylines, you still have to fill in the blanks with fetch quests and the like, as well as the fact that playing online requires balance and your character cannot be all-powerful, relatively speaking to the area you're in.

Sorry for the rambling, but the main point I'm trying to make is that MMOs reward players who have that "patience" to feel relatively powerful. It's definitely not for everyone. I will probably get to 50 on 1 or 2 characters and also head back to single player.

Edit: Just realized Seppli pretty much articulated my point much better :D

@Ulain said:

@warxsnake: It's good that you actually realize you aren't an MMO gamer; I think even most people who aren't still play just to have a timesink.

Single player games where gaining levels is more of a indirect factor of playing, it is not a driving force like it is in an MMO. While it may be great to enjoy the class storylines, you still have to fill in the blanks with fetch quests and the like, as well as the fact that playing online requires balance and your character cannot be all-powerful, relatively speaking to the area you're in.

Sorry for the rambling, but the main point I'm trying to make is that MMOs reward players who have that "patience" to feel relatively powerful. It's definitely not for everyone. I will probably get to 50 on 1 or 2 characters and also head back to single player :|

Really I'm fine with the leveling, that's not my issue with the game. Already spent 4 days on it apparently (sigh). My issue is that you get the star wars license but you literally have one single mission type across all the planets' quests (collect/activate/disable y and kill x). I think I remember seeing one escort mission on Balmorra but that's about it. The quest-type variety is my issue. It's really a single quest type, only things that change are location and the NPC types. I don't know if that's a symptom of being an MMO but I'm pretty sure other quest types could have easily been implemented in this, such as more in-depth escort missions, survival/defense missions, missions involving more 3rd party NPCs (like assisting to a small warzone), stealth or recon missions, environment-based missions (navigating an environment for a goal), and so on.

So when you think about it in a purely game design sense, its a 10~20-minute gameplay loop that gets repeated for the entire length of leveling to 50.

Variety in quest types and also things on the side could have been cool, like I mentioned having Swoop racing or pod racing arenas, or anything thats not just shoot the things and use Death From Above and Tracer Missile on everything.

I'm guessing stuff like the swoop racing and freeform/PVP space flight can be implemented in the future, I'll be looking forward to that if true.

It is grinding somewhat, but it doesn't feel that way because of the way the quests are presented to you. Every quest feels important because it's telling you a story like a single player game does. You have your overall class story, and each planet has it's own story, and a bunch of smaller side stories. If you skip the dialog or don't care about the story, it's going to feel like a grind. To me it's all about moving the story along.

No one will care probably but for what is worth I uninstalled today. I still have around 15 days of game time, But whatever I can't do it anymore plus I was needing the HD space badly with the Steam sale going on.

After I got the "republic's rogue squad evil lady" I felt like: you know what I'm totally done with this game, see you in the next expansion SWTOR (probably).

22 hours of /played so in conclusion not an MMO guy here, thou I appreciated the advice given guys(/thanks).

Yeah, I've got to say, the majority of it doesn't feel like filler to me. I'm enjoying the game, and I feel as though the majority of the leveling content has been diverse and interesting. Even the stuff that might be construed as filler, "Kill X number of guys," tends to be layered on top of good quests.

I have to agree with the OP on this.

My first character was a Merc Bounty Hunter and though I too over leveled some of the content I was in, I later found it was because I had killed a ridiculous amount of enemies. As when i made my 2nd character to hopefully inject more fun into the whole experience I rolled a class much more to my play style a Sith Assassin. I did all the quests including I bonus quests (Which I can't stand by the way because they are usually like "HEY! Grind 30 of these guys" bollocks") and stealth through the rest. But, when I hit Nar Shadda and was UNDER leveled *Side Note: I didn't do any flash points or Elite quests on the assassin but did on the BH but I believe you shouldn't have to and still be where you should in leveling* which led me to believe that BioWare expects you too either A) Do flash points B) Do elite quests or C) Kill every enemy when you are going from point A to B.

So, I ended up quitting after only a week because I couldn't stand doing the questing/bonus questing.

I haven't had to grind yet, been doing the pvp and space dailies and quests (skipping the bonus about half the time) and I am usually 3 levels above what is recommended for the area I'm in. (Do the space dailies, it will take 20 minutes of your time but they are a great source of XP and very easy)

The only quest line that was a huge pain to do for me was the Revanite quest line on DK. (Probably because I did it out of order so I had to backtrack a lot)