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    Star Wars: The Old Republic

    Game » consists of 5 releases. Released Dec 20, 2011

    Star Wars: The Old Republic is a massively-multiplayer role-playing game set 300 years after the events of BioWare's Knights of the Old Republic series, but still approximately 3,600 years before the events of the films.

    Why give moral choices to a Jedi or Sith?

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    DorianGray

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    #1  Edited By DorianGray

    After seeing the demo on G4's coverage I noticed that the designer from Bioware said that the characters would have moral choice sequences similar to what was in Mass Effect and KOTOR . So my question is why would you offer moral choices  for someone who wants to play as a jedi , who are naturally good characters in the Star Wars universe, and also for players making a Sith character? Now I understand why this would be given to a smuggler or a bounty hunter , but Jedis and Sith are very predictable in the fact that they never stray outside of their lesson's that they have been taught , which is for Jedi to be good and try to bring peace to the galaxy , whereas the Sith only want to kill the Jedi and rule over others.
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    buzz_clik

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    #2  Edited By buzz_clik
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    mazik765

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    #3  Edited By mazik765

    It could be similar to Overlord 2's morality system where you were evil regardless of the choices you made but you could choose to destroy or enslave. So something like that could be used for Sith and something similar for jedi?

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    Turambar

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    #4  Edited By Turambar

    If you remember the demo from a long time ago of the sith and the mercenary, you had two choices, both not good.  Either let the captain live and use his talents to help you kill jedi, or kill the captain and go kill jedi.  Both leads to the killing of jedi which is "evil", but the steps you take to achieve that end is a bit different.
     
    I think calling it moral choices is a poor way for the bioware guys to put it.  You are merely altering how you achieve the same ends with slightly differing means.  But the morality of the choices stays within the same direction.

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    DorianGray

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    #5  Edited By DorianGray
    @buzz_clik said:
    "Pssst...
    "

    I know that Vader was a jedi but he was lured to the dark side , but if you are someone playing as a jedi trying to be good would you ever think to be evil ?  Or would you make an evil sith warrior and try to do good things yet still want to be evil?
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    Prototype

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    #6  Edited By Prototype
    @DorianGray: Here's why a seemingly ''good'' police officer with a pretty good moral code may take a bribe in certain circumstances it doesn't mean he is a bad perosn he just made a bad descion,a criminal may see a woman being sexually harassed and attempt to stop it.The point is the lines between good and bad are extremly blurred which is what i think Bioware is trying to get accross but that is just how i see it.
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    Demyx

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    #7  Edited By Demyx
    @Turambar said:
    " If you remember the demo from a long time ago of the sith and the mercenary, you had two choices, both not good.  Either let the captain live and use his talents to help you kill jedi, or kill the captain and go kill jedi.  Both leads to the killing of jedi which is "evil", but the steps you take to achieve that end is a bit different.  I think calling it moral choices is a poor way for the bioware guys to put it.  You are merely altering how you achieve the same ends with slightly differing means.  But the morality of the choices stays within the same direction. "
    I remember this demo. This makes sense. Otherwise it really doesn't make sense.
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    DeviantJoker

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    #8  Edited By DeviantJoker

    Essentially in the same vein of what Turambar said, except I think morality is the right word. Morality, in the sense of "right" and "wrong". Your character isn't a 2 dimensional object and there are many ethical choices that could differentiate him from others of his kind.  
     
    For instance, ideas such as slavery could revolt one Sith while another could have no problem enslaving the masses. Perhaps betrayal and greed are common place for one Dark Jedi while the other is a loyalist to the cause and not so power hungry. Or for the practitioners of the Light Side of the Force, one Jedi Knight could be brutal (to a point), stoic and stubborn in dealing with those who go against the Republic - while another could be far more compassionate and trusting that they might change their ways. There's no one way to be good or evil. Beyond just being alternating ways of being "good" or "evil" - there are also such things (from a RP perspective, not mechanically as far as I know) Gray Jedi. And some people may wish to portray themselves that one. There are many portrayals of Jedi and Fallen Jedi - and they are not all boring mirrors of each other.
     
    BioWare knows this and will find varied ways to represent different kind of choices the player can use to "define" his characters ethical beliefs. Hopefully with all the money they are dumping into this project, among other quality issues they much achieve, having a good feeling of choices and its impact on each class' story will make everyone feel like they got to play the Jedi or Dark Jedi they wanted to.

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    ryanwho

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    #9  Edited By ryanwho

    Yeah its sloppy. When has a Sith become a Jedi? That never happened. Scept that one time. One time, not all the time. If they're constructing a world where a dude can just bounce back and fourth between sides then its gonna be pretty silly. Its not Jedi or Sith, its lawful to chaotic Jedi and lawful to chaotic Sith. Get chaotic enough as a Jedi or lawful enough as a Sith and you have the opportunity to turn coat, 1 time. If people are towing the middle so they can quest both sides, its gonna be fucking dumb.

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    DeviantJoker

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    #10  Edited By DeviantJoker
    @ryanwho said:

     If people are towing the middle so they can quest both sides, its gonna be fucking dumb. "

    You cannot "quest both sides". To my understanding, especially after watching recent E3 interviews, each class (Jedi Knight, Bounty Hunter, Sith Warrior, Trooper, etc...) will have their own unique story quests. For instance, even though the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor start on the same Origin Planet - they will both follow a different storyline unique to their feel. Just because a Jedi Knight starts choosing to do "grayer" or harsher options (and really we're not sure what kind of options we're allowed) -- doesn't mean he'll suddenly "turn Sith".  No one will be doing the same quests.
     
    The devs were talking about how they weren't going to even allow (or at the least make it very costly) to switch between advanced classes (Sith Maurader or Sith Juggernaut, for instance) so I heavily doubt you can straight up switch sides at all.
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    shirogane

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    #11  Edited By shirogane
    @DeviantJoker:
    I don't know, i think switching sides ONCE might be viable. Especially for Jedi to suddenly fall to the dark side, as that happens constantly in Star Wars. That said, i don't think that would be in the original release, if anything, an expansion/patch or something would add this.
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    General_D23

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    #12  Edited By General_D23

     
    Switching sides will not be available at first, but it sounds like it might become an option sometime into the game's life cycle.
     
    Anyway, I do like the idea of playing a decidedly grayer/darker Jedi or a lighter/grayer Sith. I don't like being completely evil or completely good, usually. Makes sense for them to include the option to do that.

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    guiseppe

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    #13  Edited By guiseppe

    People do change their minds. As someone said, Darth Vader was once a Jedi, and if you encounter an event, person or thing in the game that would make you want to turn, I don't see that as a bad thing. If you, the player, change your mind about something in the game or just can't go through with killing an innocent person in a certain situation, shouldn't that reflect on your character in the game?

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    DeviantJoker

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    #14  Edited By DeviantJoker
    @Shirogane said:

    That said, i don't think that would be in the original release, if anything, an expansion/patch or something would add this. "

    I could see that, possibly. It'd probably be a specific class - perhaps, like a specific Advanced Class called Fallen Jedi or Redeemed Jedi? In any case, it sounds a bit sketchy once you get into the idea of balancing the sides as far as PvP goes. The other option would be a specific story-point where, for example, at level 30 you have a choice (pre-empted by a build up of other choices you've made to this point)  that could cause you to "fall". Thus, from level 30 onward you are a Sith Warrior for all intents and purposes of skills/talents/abilities (losing all your former Jedi Knight abilities and whatnot). Definitely not something I expect to see in the original release. Like I said - the were reluctant to discuss allowing you to switch between advanced classes... so I can't imagine the degree of headache that'd go into side-switching.
     
    Still, the concern of "questing both sides" in the sense that you can take advantage of the system, is not going to happen. You're always going to be doing the plot quests that is inherent to everyone of your particular class.
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    damswedon

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    #15  Edited By damswedon

    Because it fits the KOTOR fiction, Revan was a Jedi through and through it was just that he felt that the republic could not hold off against the true empire of the Sith that he took the mantle of a dark lord. And there have been "Grey" Jedi in the KOTOR games before Kreia even though she was a Sith Lord, she was against being all good or all bad.

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    deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5

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    @DorianGray said:
    " After seeing the demo on G4's coverage I noticed that the designer from Bioware said that the characters would have moral choice sequences similar to what was in Mass Effect and KOTOR . So my question is why would you offer moral choices  for someone who wants to play as a jedi... "
     
    I'm not quite sure how giving the player moral choices takes away from the experience of roleplaying a good person... :/
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    ryanwho

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    #17  Edited By ryanwho
    @DeviantJoker said:
    " @ryanwho said:

     If people are towing the middle so they can quest both sides, its gonna be fucking dumb. "

    You cannot "quest both sides". To my understanding, especially after watching recent E3 interviews, each class (Jedi Knight, Bounty Hunter, Sith Warrior, Trooper, etc...) will have their own unique story quests. For instance, even though the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor start on the same Origin Planet - they will both follow a different storyline unique to their feel. Just because a Jedi Knight starts choosing to do "grayer" or harsher options (and really we're not sure what kind of options we're allowed) -- doesn't mean he'll suddenly "turn Sith".  No one will be doing the same quests. The devs were talking about how they weren't going to even allow (or at the least make it very costly) to switch between advanced classes (Sith Maurader or Sith Juggernaut, for instance) so I heavily doubt you can straight up switch sides at all. "
    Then calling the moral system extremes "Jedi" and "Sith" is just making things confusing.
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    Meowshi

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    #18  Edited By Meowshi

    You seem to know very little about the Star Wars universe.  Jedi struggle with the dark side all the time.  Because their lives revolve around defending the Republic and protecting the innocent, they fall into the same troubles that cops, soldiers, etc. fall into to.  Sometimes they become overzealous in their good intentions and do horrible things.
     
    It's been explained by Bioware that in this game, Jedi doesn't mean "good" and Sith doesn't mean "bad".  They are just factions.  Just allegiances.  You decide what type of person your character is.  They described a situation where a Sith was born in the Sith Empire but and is completely loyal to his home -- but is still a good-natured person.  He will still fight the Republic and kill Jedi because it is a war and they are his enemies, but that does not make him evil.  You have to realize that during this time period, the Sith were exiled to the outer reaches of the galaxy and left to essentially die.  However they instead grew their numbers rapidly and raised an entire Empire, which struck back at the Republic which had nearly destroyed them.  That's the scene you saw in the first trailer, where the Jedi Temple was destroyed.

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    Jeust

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    #20  Edited By Jeust

    I think the game wasn't all that well planned. The different classes for Sith and Jedi are awesome, but it would be too cool to change side with our choices, from Jedi to Sith and Sith to Jedi.  
     
    Moral choices in the current stage seem a bit pointless. Bad characters will take bad choices, and good ones will be goodie.  

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    DorianGray

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    #21  Edited By DorianGray
    @Meowshi:
    I realise that Jedi can fall to the allure of the dark side of the force , but why offer that choice to a player who wants to play as good jedi knight? This question is also the same for a sith, why would someone want to then be good after decideing to be a bad sith? I have spoken with other fans who find this question also odd , looking back it makes sense to have a jedi that could fall to the allure of the dark side , but why include it for a sith  ? Also I have been a Star Wars fan since I was four years old so I have some sense of the back history of the Star Wars universe from the comics, films, games, and the cartoons from over the years.

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