Collectively, I probably spent about a year playing World of Warcraft. It's a great MMO, but I eventually either ran out of things to do, or just got frustrated with some game mechanics. While I don't think SW: TOR is a better MMO than WoW, it's definitely grabbed me a lot more than WoW, and has a lot of room to grow. It's also great to be in an MMO at its start, before everyone goes crazy hardcore for gearscores and arena rankings. Anyways, for those of you who still subscribe to WoW, has playing The Old Republic made you reconsider your subscription? Personally, I've had a few times when I've thought fondly of WoW, and wanted to resubscribe. I doubt I'll be having those thoughts again after SWTOR.

Nope.

@Red: Made me cancel mine =/

If anything i'll try SWTOR out and cancel my WoW subscription during that time. I will not pay for two at once. It's not like I cannot resubscribe at a later point anyway. I have a huge feeling that SWTOR will have a cliff at the end of the game that WoW never had. By that I mean no end game, have we heard anything about what that will be? This game is apparently so expensive how often will they have patch updates a la Warcraft?

I've seen and done everything I wanted in WoW.
I think I have a special spot for Star Wars, and Bioware, and from what I played so far I would have canceled my sub if I was still playing.

Don't think so, I don't see SWTOR having a lot of staying power. It hardly even seems like an MMO, and I imagine the drop off after people finish their stories will be pretty high. Whereas I have a lot of close friendships built up after years in WoW, it'd take something pretty exceptional to tear me off that. Despite Bioware's claims, I don't think it's quite there.

I should preface this by saying that I'm far from being a hardcore WoW player.

I just recently resubscribed to WoW. And like any MMO in my mind, the real appeal for me is playing with friends I actually know. And right now, those friends are casually running instances in WoW, maybe twice or three times a week.

So the short answer is no. I won't be canceling my WoW subscription because my friends are currently playing WoW. But the long answer is also yes. Should my friends and I decide to jump the Azeroth ship and find another MMO to explore, SWTOR is the likely destination.

Quit WoW bout a year ago and for some odd reason SWTOR just doesn't peak my interest. Guess I'm just waiting for Diablo 3 and the next big Blizzard MMO. Yep, even the next WoW expansion doesn't even interest me.

No.

I was very active in WoW for 5 years.  Burned out about 11 months ago.  I've tried Rift and Warhammer, but it turns out it wasn't WoW so much as the MMO quest mechanics.  I barely got anywhere in either of them because i just can't do it again (yet).  I'm paying for an EVE subscription without really playing because having my skills level passively seems to be enough for me. 
 
So, no, I don't think SW:tOR will hook me.  It looks to mechanically like WoW for me.    

It depends. I've always been far more interested in the endgame, and I haven't seen anything about the Hard Mode 16-man raids (Operations) in ToR yet. The normal modes sound comparable to WoW's LFR, which makes them thoroughly uninteresting to me, but not much has really been said about the Hard Modes. If the ToR endgame turns out to be more interesting/challenging then the current WoW endgame, I might make the jump. That said, I am interested enough in Star Wars that I'll probably pick it up after we're done with the current tier of raiding in WoW just to fill time until Mists comes out.

It did. I beat Deathwing the first week of Looking For Raid. I'm not doing that half-assed, easy-mode instance over and over for 9 months until MoP comes out, and I wasn't suckered into the annual subscription with a free copy of Diablo 2.

If Blizzard wants to abandon their game for a year, that's their problem. My whole guild transferred over to SWTOR and we're having a blast, some of us are already lvl 43+

Nope.

Progression raiding and competitive small scale PvP isn't really something KOTOR has talked about at all.

The only thing that would interest me is extremely challenging and involved boss fights; I'm yet to hear anything along these lines.

I have zero interest in non-skippable cinematic cut-scenes and VA dialogue while levelling up. In any case in the long run levelling is just a small part of the mmo experience and gets stale after the 1st time you do it.

The hype is almost always about the single player RPG aspects of TOR, and very little about raiding or pvp.

Not having a trial account was a big mistake imo for bioware; a lot of people will be cautious and not even try this out ($60 + subs).

I can see a lot of casual/lorelol/roleplayer type players switching to TOR though.

Very few reviews have actually compared WoW or talked about end-game pve/pvp. Once they do maybe more people will be interested.

So far the reviews are a bit disappointing.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/star-wars-the-old-republic : see user reviews

Gamepro review (has comparisons to WoW) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrsBIDJbFQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p2WiLznFeA : gameplay video of a world boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68VfgesWmcI&feature=plcp&context=C35c6a56UDOEgsToPDskKG9slESk_PKfoECuH0WFu_ : more gameplay of a world boss zerg

Also read this thread that compares WoW with TOR from a hardcore raider/pvp'ers perspective : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=53328

The review was fairly well written but the bioware fanboys jump on the guy for over 70 pages with typical shitposting along the lines of "go back to WoW" or other very subjective rebuttals.

Personally for me raiding in WoW has been consistently more or less the same in terms of difficulty and complexity since TBC. This opinion is shared by most people that actually do hardmode raids.

The start of cata had a ramp up in difficulty from wotlk; that didn't really change much but my alts were shelved (my alts are on a different server from my main). LFR is good, for me, coz I can now actually do stuff on alts. So I guess I liked the change. Doesn't really affect my main.

There's a lot of complaints about WoW but always remember it's usually from embittered players who quit and entitled casuals that want the easiest level of raids to remain hard whilst refusing to do hardmode content.

Frustration about WoW is wholly understandable from people who never raid or pvp seriously though; but then the question is why play mmo's at all in the first place ? Farmville would probably be more suitable for such needs. Perhaps TOR will appeal to this crowd.

Nope! I am not really into Star Wars, so I think I can live without doing the Old Republic. I hear the game is fun tho and I wish it the very best of luck!

@Neeshka: So much misinformation in this post, and quoting metacritic user reviews and the absolutely pathetic gamepro "review" for "disappointing reviews" is laughable at best.

I only bought a 1 month subscription when 4.3 was released but fuck no.

Naw, never really cared for Star Wars to begin with anyways.

@CL60 said:

@Neeshka: So much misinformation in this post, and quoting metacritic user reviews and the absolutely pathetic gamepro "review" for "disappointing reviews" is laughable at best.

feel free to point out which parts exactly are "misinformation".

@Neeshka said:

@CL60 said:

@Neeshka: So much misinformation in this post, and quoting metacritic user reviews and the absolutely pathetic gamepro "review" for "disappointing reviews" is laughable at best.

feel free to point out which parts exactly are "misinformation".

The fact you said cutscenes and dialogue are unskippable, and you use user reviews on metacritic, and a review published by gamepro, where in it, one of the people hasn't even gotten a companion yet(infact none of them even got 15+ iirc.) and calls the factions, the blue guys and the red guys, which is also full of massive contradictions and ridiculousness as a way to say the reviews have been bad.

I dont have time to relearn a world, level up new characers, learn that character etc etc, i like how i can just jump in, play it for a few hours then stop.

What I'm wondering about is the ratio from single player/Bioware fans to MMO people. I hate MMO's, traditionally. They always force you into grouping with spazzy 'tards who go on and on about how you're not playing right you need to be spamming this and then queuing that and blah blah blah. At least, that's been my experience with all the MMO's I've played. The mechanics of those games never bugged me (really they just play like old CRPGs), it was always the other people. And the game's philosophy of needing to latch on to those people in order to see anything of value.

TOR for me is different. It's offering me the best of what Bioware does (the Sith Warrior story is fantastic so far), and doesn't force me to group with people to progress the plot. I'm crazy, I know, playing an RPG for the story and what not. But seriously, I like that I can choose to group with people instead of being forced into it. Just this morning I helped an Inquisitor complete the Black Talon Flashpoint. I was in the area, he asked for help, and I gave it. Making the group stuff optional to the experience has actually done wonders, I think. It allows me to pick and choose, and doesn't gate me off from the experience I want.

The way I figure it, the people who are coming to TOR for the same old MMO shit with high-end gear and PVP raids and three hour boss fights have got it wrong. This is less about the grind, the stat-porn of an MMO, and more about everyone sharing a universe and pretending to be a Jedi, or a Sith, or a Bounty Hunter, or Han Solo. Kind of like when we used to play with our imaginations as kids. I dig it.

Played WoW for ~1 year total, during late wotlk and early cata. Burned out totally somewhere during Firelands, only thing that I enjoyed about the game at that point was the company of my guildmates, everything asides raids felt like a chore. Crafting especially.

I'm not hardcore MMOer and TOR seems just right to me. My biggest gripe with WoW was the hopelessly outdated core engine, Bliz does innovate often and polish well, but it's just so much you can make out of that base. I'm not saying TOR is something new and never-seen-before, on the contrary the usual MMO tropes are what bug me the most, but they've addressed a good deal of mechanics that were in need of an update. I do also enjoy immensely the more fleshed out characterization, in WoW I never felt any of my chars were anything more than a class, but with all the voice acting and choices it's much more of an experience than just grind&loot.

Oh yeah, and the lack of LFG tool, good god I hope they'll never make one for TOR, though of course I know they will eventually. I just find LFG tool is just so destructive to the in-server social experience, I like having to get to know the people in my server, makes it feel like a world.

But yeah, started off with 60 days of subscription, playing it casually and liking it so far.

@Catfish666 said:

Oh yeah, and the lack of LFG tool, good god I hope they'll never make one for TOR, though of course I know they will eventually. I just find LFG tool is just so destructive to the in-server social experience, I like having to get to know the people in my server, makes it feel like a world.

On any medium population server it was always a painful exercise to find a group for anything. You had to be friends with the people that were in charge - who weren't even necessarily good at the game. Constant ninjaing was extremely common; and again something the terrible PvP community propagated. If you were in their arena teams or their friends; you wouldn't be affected. Similarly raids completely falling apart over trivial reasons; or just because someone had to leave was all too common.

Finding a group meant extremely subjective gear checks and "gearscore"/armory checks; and not getting invited if the leader wanted loot relevant to his class. Sifting through the 4chan-esque trolling in trade chat for groups was never fun.

LFR fixes *all* of these issues exceedingly well.

If you want to raid; find a guild and raid hardcore with them. If you aren't into hardcore raiding and don't want to deal with any of the annoying drama; jump into LFR. LFR so far has been a massive success and liked by both hardcore raiders who do it on their alts; and casual gamers.

The above problems are something that blizzard came to realize and thus implemented LFG and now LFR. Bioware would do well to implement these features in their game too.

I got duped into an annual pass, so no.

@Neeshka said:

@Catfish666 said:

Oh yeah, and the lack of LFG tool, good god I hope they'll never make one for TOR, though of course I know they will eventually. I just find LFG tool is just so destructive to the in-server social experience, I like having to get to know the people in my server, makes it feel like a world.

On any medium population server it was always a painful exercise to find a group for anything. You had to be friends with the people that were in charge - who weren't even necessarily good at the game. Constant ninjaing was extremely common; and again something the terrible PvP community propagated. If you were in their arena teams or their friends; you wouldn't be affected. Similarly raids completely falling apart over trivial reasons; or just because someone had to leave was all too common.

Finding a group meant extremely subjective gear checks and "gearscore"/armory checks; and not getting invited if the leader wanted loot relevant to his class. Sifting through the 4chan-esque trolling in trade chat for groups was never fun.

LFR fixes *all* of these issues exceedingly well.

If you want to raid; find a guild and raid hardcore with them. If you aren't into hardcore raiding and don't want to deal with any of the annoying drama; jump into LFR. LFR so far has been a massive success and liked by both hardcore raiders who do it on their alts; and casual gamers.

The above problems are something that blizzard came to realize and thus implemented LFG and now LFR. Bioware would do well to implement these features in their game too.

It's a matter of opinion and preference of playstyle. I've never personally had a problem with gearscores, because I haven't ever pugged a raid. In my books, you want to raid, you join a guild. There's plenty of different kinds to choose from one's server, ranging from that "we raid maybe once a week if we feel like it" - casual guild to the crazyass elitist guild that follow strict set of rules and anything between those two.

The problem I have with LFG/LFR is that by removing that "annoying drama", it's removing a social aspect of the game and moving the experience closer to a single player experience. Sure, you can find the group faster, but you might as well be playing with AI bots because nobody ever talks, because you're not ever gonna run across eachother anyway. When I started WoW in a fresh new server, doing instances together wasn't just for the loot, it was a way to get to know people. I like to think it's a nice and natural way to meet people that's integrated in the gameplay, you add good eggs to your friend list and spread the name of someone who ninjas loot in general chat back in city OR just report him. LFG in the contrary just makes ninjaing more easy because worst consequence you get is to get kicked from the group.

But yeah, I agree that there's a big bunch of people who like LFG/LFR, I'm just not one of them. Should just make separate servers sans and con LFG if you ask me.

@Neeshka said:

Not having a trial account was a big mistake imo for bioware; a lot of people will be cautious and not even try this out ($60 + subs).

You're calling not having a trial at launch a big mistake? A trial is something that should always be offered down the line for those those who're uncertain about the game. If you offered a trial at the release the number of sold copies and pre-orders would fucking plummet, and there should hardly be a need to elaborate how damaging that would be.

There is like zero benefit for having a trial so early on when people who're going to get the game regardless are still purchasing.

@Neeshka:

I do love that you asked CL60 to clarify his point, and when he did you didn't responed to it.

I do not feel like paying 15 bucks a month for somthing that mainly looks like a single player game. 

All real hardcore wow players are chomping at the bit for something else to play. They have played WoW for entire years of their lives and they want to move on, trust me. All it takes is a good fun game (SWtOR) and enough of your friends willing to jump with you.

That said am I cancelling my WoW sub? No, I am a good raider and I will stick with my team through this tier. When pandaria launches and this tier is over though? I hope they don't expect to see me online anymore because they wont, at least not in WoW.

Canceled my WoW sub in August after playing since launch. I'm definitely going to check this out when I upgrade my PC.

Going to keep both subscriptions active until Panda time then I'll probably stop playing TOR.

WoW made me cancel my WoW subscription. Haven't played in a long while. Unless something comes along that is completely new/unique/fun/etc., I highly doubt I will ever really play another MMO, especially not one with a monthly fee.

I know at least six people who have killed their WoW accounts and no regrets. SWTOR isn't for everyone, its a different approach to an MMO and for some, its just too advanced for them.

@Catfish666 said:

It's a matter of opinion and preference of playstyle. I've never personally had a problem with gearscores, because I haven't ever pugged a raid. In my books, you want to raid, you join a guild. There's plenty of different kinds to choose from one's server, ranging from that "we raid maybe once a week if we feel like it" - casual guild to the crazyass elitist guild that follow strict set of rules and anything between those two.

The problem I have with LFG/LFR is that by removing that "annoying drama", it's removing a social aspect of the game and moving the experience closer to a single player experience. Sure, you can find the group faster, but you might as well be playing with AI bots because nobody ever talks, because you're not ever gonna run across eachother anyway. When I started WoW in a fresh new server, doing instances together wasn't just for the loot, it was a way to get to know people. I like to think it's a nice and natural way to meet people that's integrated in the gameplay, you add good eggs to your friend list and spread the name of someone who ninjas loot in general chat back in city OR just report him. LFG in the contrary just makes ninjaing more easy because worst consequence you get is to get kicked from the group.

But yeah, I agree that there's a big bunch of people who like LFG/LFR, I'm just not one of them. Should just make separate servers sans and con LFG if you ask me.

When wotlk added hard modes and introduced 2 separate difficulty modes; people cried incessantly about how it took away the prestige of raiding and how there was no point in doing any of the content anymore. A number of people that played from release up until tbc quit around then. And as usual blamed blizzard "nerfing" the content as their reason for leaving the game.

The exact same thing is happening now. Blizzard added yet another totally optional ezmode tier of raiding, targetted towards entry level raiders. Now yet again there's that minority complaining how raiding has become too easy and not as hard as it used to be and the prestige of killing bosses is gone.

You still have to join a guild if you want to clear content on hard mode and normal mode.

This has absolutely nothing to do with opinion or playstyle. You are criticizing a completely optional system becomes somehow in your world it detracts from the prestige of raiding and destroys the sense of community.

" LFG in the contrary just makes ninjaing more easy because worst consequence you get is to get kicked from the group."

It was quite easy for the raid leader to switch to ML, grab all the epics and just leave. Nothing would be done about it. There have been countless horror stories where the gdkp pot had been stolen and people had been scammed out of their money. Raids falling apart because 1-2 people suddenly had to go was also commonplace. If you never saw these problems you obviously didn't pug that much.

Doing pugs with people you know regularly is something you can still do - it's called joining a guild.

@winsol said:

@Neeshka:

I do love that you asked CL60 to clarify his point, and when he did you didn't responed to it.

There's not much to reply to. He just said that metacritic user reviews and the gamepro review are both dismissable. Also that cut scenes are skippable.

He didn't read everything i posted; or watch/read any of the reviews I linked; so there's not much to respond to.

Anyway it's pretty obvious that if you raid or are interested in competitive PvP TOR isn't really targeted to you.

@Neeshka: @The_Laughing_Man: I fall somewhere in the middle of this. I think the LFG tool was one of the worst things to happen to WoW but the alternative of hanging around a hub and spamming LFG is no good either. I would like a LFG tool but limited to your server. I think that would be the best of both worlds.

@Matt said:

@Neeshka: @The_Laughing_Man: I fall somewhere in the middle of this. I think the LFG tool was one of the worst things to happen to WoW but the alternative of hanging around a hub and spamming LFG is no good either. I would like a LFG tool but limited to your server. I think that would be the best of both worlds.

What about on servers with a very limited raiding community ? Or even medium pop servers ? What if you play on a server where the community has come to include mostly people on a different time zone ?

There are plenty of servers with fairly large populations where finding a group to do anything is a nightmare. Trade chat consists of a couple of celebrity trolls that are worshipped by the entire server for some bizarre reason. If you are really interested go to wowprogress list by realm; and go to the servers in the 75-200 range of US rank. Tons of the servers will be like this.

It's not really blizzard's fault it's just how youth culture works now and how 4chan has permeated every aspect of the modern gaming community.

On the other end of the spectrum there are large servers like illidan, mal'ganis, frostmourne, lightbringer or blackrock where pug raids constantly happen and every tier there are excellent gdkp runs and pugs that clear quite a few hard modes.

@Neeshka: If servers are such low pop to the point of a server wide LFG tool being pointless it's on Blizzard to fix that. By merging or some other means. I agree that trade can be a mess and with the server wide LFG tool you wouldn't need to spam trade for LFG.

Merging servers is a lot of work perhaps ?

Perhaps people on those servers don't want to get merged with other servers ?

Perhaps such servers have a large non-raiding community that blizzard doesn't want to piss off ?

Maybe the server has an odd time zone or a different language ?

LFR/LFG is a solution to many problems that is easier to implement, avoids a lot of subsequent problems from other solutions and clearly has been popular amongst the majority.

If you don't like either; you always have the option of not doing them.

I play on the server illidan where there's lots of superb pugs and clearing hard modes on alts is something that happens every tier. I raid in a guild on my main and pug with people I know from trade chat or friends. I also play occasionally on another server which is medium/high pop and in the 70-125 range on wowprogress (server:alexstraza). Here the situation is a lot like what I mentioned earlier. I have a bunch of alts stuck there; but I don't care about them enough to transfer them all. But now I have the option of logging on to them and finding groups in LFG/LFR and avoiding the garbage community on the said server.

As a former WoW player that rolled REAL DEEP in WoW, if I were to subscribe to an MMO again, it would be this. I've went back to WoW several times in the past since months from free 7 day passes they keep sending me (they must really want me back -- I've got 4 in six months) and I just don't want to play it anymore. I did, however, have a lot of fun with this during beta.

I've seen and done everything I wanted in WoW. I think I have a special spot for Star Wars, and Bioware, and from what I played so far I would have canceled my sub if I was still playing.

@Neeshka said:

When wotlk added hard modes and introduced 2 separate difficulty modes; people cried incessantly about how it took away the prestige of raiding and how there was no point in doing any of the content anymore. A number of people that played from release up until tbc quit around then. And as usual blamed blizzard "nerfing" the content as their reason for leaving the game.

The exact same thing is happening now. Blizzard added yet another totally optional ezmode tier of raiding, targetted towards entry level raiders. Now yet again there's that minority complaining how raiding has become too easy and not as hard as it used to be and the prestige of killing bosses is gone.

You still have to join a guild if you want to clear content on hard mode and normal mode.

Why are you mixing in the difficulty level of raiding to the conversation? Never said I had a problem with that, all my points have been about how LFG/LFR tool affect the social aspect of the game.

This has absolutely nothing to do with opinion or playstyle.

Thanks.

You are criticizing a completely optional system becomes somehow in your world it detracts from the prestige of raiding and destroys the sense of community.

I would hardly call LFG/LFR optional. I mean, sure, I don't have to click that "find group" button, but it hardly matters because the community has adopted it. The point being that LFG/LFR has changed how everybody links up to play group content, it's no way optional.

Also, don't have to get all snarky with me about some prestige raiding, never made statements about that so far. And I said it's destructive to the social aspects of the game, not that it destroys sense of community, don't have to twist my words, thank you very much.

It was quite easy for the raid leader to switch to ML, grab all the epics and just leave. Nothing would be done about it. There have been countless horror stories where the gdkp pot had been stolen and people had been scammed out of their money. Raids falling apart because 1-2 people suddenly had to go was also commonplace. If you never saw these problems you obviously didn't pug that much.

Doing pugs with people you know regularly is something you can still do - it's called joining a guild.

To quote myself from the post I posted previously: "I've never personally had a problem with gearscores, because I haven't ever pugged a raid." Oh I know the horror stories, and guess what? They happen still! LFG/LFR doesn't change the fact that ppl will act like dicks when playing with random people from the internets! That's why I really only raid in a guild, but thanks for the advice. Now would you please get off my throat.

Regardless if you guys will cancel or not, is the game enjoyable even if there might not be a real end game?

@Catfish666 said:

I would hardly call LFG/LFR optional. I mean, sure, I don't have to click that "find group" button, but it hardly matters because the community has adopted it. The point being that LFG/LFR has changed how everybody links up to play group content, it's no way optional.

And I said it's destructive to the social aspects of the game, not that it destroys sense of community, don't have to twist my words, thank you very much.

The loot from LFG/LFR is a lot worse than normal mode raids and a lot lot worse than hard mode raids.

Less effort = lesser reward.

5 mans are a mostly irrelevant entry-level step to raiders; no one has ever really cared about them too much. LFG just facilitates and expedites the process. If there was no LFG it would take ages to form groups.

LFR just introduces an additional step in the gear grind; and even then if you are in a semi-decent guild; you can go straight from firelands (last tier) to DS normal this tier.

It's also "something to do" when you are done with your main character. Most casual players actually wanted something like LFR.

I'm not sure what "community" LFR destroys; since on the server I play on (illidan) bear runs, heroic firelands pugs, normal firelands pugs, old school raids, DS normal (heroic probably in a few months) are all quite common.

Maybe it kills off disfunctional guilds and disfunctional pugs that used to struggle to down even 1 normal mode boss. But I'm not sure why anyone would want to be in them in the first place.

@Anwar said:

@Neeshka said:

There's a lot of complaints about WoW but always remember it's usually from embittered players who quit and entitled casuals that want the easiest level of raids to remain hard whilst refusing to do hardmode content.

Frustration about WoW is wholly understandable from people who never raid or pvp seriously though; but then the question is why play mmo's at all in the first place ? Farmville would probably be more suitable for such needs. Perhaps TOR will appeal to this crowd.

Good lord, there is so much wrong with this post, goddamn. People can't have a negative opinion about WoW unless they're either embittered players or are enttiled casuals? And if you like TOR you're a Farmville player? Your namecalling is outrageous.

Not at all.

It's only specific forms of trolling that are fairly obvious to diagnose.

For example the following are acceptable complaints about WoW and not trolling:

1) LFR/LFG have no ladder/skill system so people of very disparate skill/gear levels are grouped together. This is a problem.

2) A lot of the content in WoW raiding seems to strongly favor ranged dps. This has traditionally been a problem ever since release. Additionally class stacking is a very real issue where certain dps spec tend to feel a lot less useful than others.

3) WoW has no real competition so there isn't much we can compare it to. Having a huge monopoly in a genre that is basically an ocean of shit leads to stagnation. If something like TOR actually did end up being great; there would be a lot of positive changes in WoW.

4) The vote kick system in LFG/LFR doesn't correctly identify bad players or griefers and is too arbitrary.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, very subjective/sensalationist/hyperbolic statements that aren't well thought out and just a parroting of the same old crap already posted a 100 times; IS TROLLING.

1) LFR destroyed WoW/destroyed

2) <insert game> is the next WoW killer

3) WoW is dead/dying; WoW in 2012 ? lol

4) PvE = scripted bosses = no skill ROFL

5) hard modes = no point in raiding (good old wotlk argument)

6) Combat in WoW sucks; the game is just carrot on stick ! Mario has more challenging gameplay (personal favorite)

7) Vanilla best; <insert subsequent expansion> worst

8) WoW lore = lol

I know a ton of people playing TOR; even from my own guild. They don't see it as a competitor to WoW at all. Their opinion is generally this : "if you like single player bioware games, you will probably like TOR. It doesn't really have a strong end-game right now, but this might eventually change. The combat is more like an RPG and less involved/evolved than WoW". They are critical and bring up fair points about WoW.

This is very different from the fanboy response of WoW sucks, if you hate TOR /gb2WoW/ (go back to wow).

Fanboy responses are typically subjective, very abbreviated (they cannot make long posts in their rage), and have absurd conclusions - stop playing, go back to <x game> etc.

OR there's the classic "everything you say is an opinion, i don't care what you say, I have fun playing <insert game name> and you can't change that".

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=53328

Here's a thread discussing WoW vs TOR where almost every response consists of ad hominems, "go back to WoW", and the "fun" argument. Thread goes on for about 75 pages; most of the responses are also not longer than 1-2 sentences. Fanboys seem to have issues forming good arguments I think.

Nope, I'm to invested in WoW at this point. I may try it out for 2-3 months, but I will not be leaving wow. I raid on a weekly basis, I do a lot of PvP, and the biggest reason my guild is there. I've been playing with those people for around 2 years now, I've met a bunch of them in real life and were all really good friends, so unless my entire guild moves over (which isent likly) I will be staying with WoW.

Also, I hate Star Wars.

I wish they just made a KOTOR 3/4/5/6.... single player game and expanded on the storylines of nihilus, kreia and so forth :(

I wish bioware went back to how good their games were in the early 00's (BG2 anyone ?)

@Neeshka: I think there's a interesting point in debating the merits of a cross server LFG and how it effects the game but you seem pretty dead set on saying it's totally fine and any criticisms are simply fanboy comments so I'll leave it.

There are genuine improvements that can be made to LFG; like adding a rating/ladder system; or making it easier to kick genuinely bad players or griefers with a similar system.

But no one EVER talks about these things. It's always some subjective crap or whine about how it "destroys the community". Threads along these lines exist aplenty on the WoW forums and on mmo-champion (another wow forum).

I've rarely seen threads that actually offer viable improvements to WoW or reasonable criticisms. People just don't think before they post and cannot understand how their opinions are either flat out wrong or require a change that is completely unviable.

Either it's rabid nostalgia for vanilla; vague and subjective whining about how the game has gotten worse; how the Lore sucks, how there is no sense of community, how there is no sense of achievement or prestige; so on and so forth.

Posting completely abstract and vague opinions isn't really productive to any conversation.

I quit WoW to play TOR and I played since early access on the 16th and was loving it at first.

Played a Bounty Hunter until level 28 or so and that was when frustration started to set in and I ended up quitting the game. That's not to say I will go back to WoW either, my friends I played WoW with went to TOR and still liking it and me already done.