Hate towards Mario 3D Allstars Unwarranted

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bondfish

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I am quite enjoying Mario 3D Allstars collection so far. I beat Mario 64 got all 120 Stars and working my way through Galaxy now, skipping Sunshine for the time being. Growing up I never had the consoles to play the 3D Mario games. I got a Wii when I was in High School but didn't pick up Galaxy right away and got it a few years later only to play about an hour of it (stopped for no real reason). But all the hate of this collection to me is unwarranted.

This collection is for the people who never got the chance to play these games before. If you grew up with these games then good for you, you played them and probably already still own them, but to play these game without this collection is tough. You need to buy an N64 and a Wii (with a gamecube memory card) at the very least and copies of the game which cost more in total than the $60. (of course I know you can emulate but come on guys). So that right away is a problem for most people.

I understand why people are disappointed, its a lack luster collection for the people that wanted it to celebrate Mario, and yea I wish they made the camera control in 64 modern and other controls etc. But as a collection of here are the games as they basically were is perfectly fine for me.

I get and understand the hate, but the people who are hating this collection are the ones who already played them before and just wanted more out of these games they have nostalgia for. No one is looking at the people who never grew up with these game and didn't have the means to enjoy them back in the day and I am sure those people would agree with me as well. These games are still fun and I just always wanted to see what the hype was all about for Mario 64 now I can.

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Efesell

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I mean.. I'm glad you enjoy them.

I'm not sure much "It's not for you" really works when the collection is intended to be a anniversary celebration. I would argue such a thing is in fact targeting long time fans more than the handful of people who have somehow not played big Mario games in the past.

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jamesyfx

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The last time they did the All-Stars, they basically re-did each game in the collection to make them all look like (at the time) modern SNES games. They've barely done anything to all the games here. Making something widescreen and re-texturing is something individuals have been doing for years.. A big company like Nintendo could have done so much more if they had been bothered. Plus the whole time limited thing which is just weird.

I'm not one of the haters either... It's fine as a product.. It's just not great.

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csl316

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I like the collection. The games play well and look sharp. My only complaint is the lack of Galaxy 2.

I'd gladly buy a complete Mario 64 remake, but this was a fun way to revisit these on a modern console.

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BisonHero

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#5  Edited By BisonHero

Sure, it's a collection of great games, and if you've never played some of them, go for it, nobody is a bad person for liking it. But if Nintendo is just going to rerelease some unchanged ROMs from 13-25 years ago as a single purchase on the Switch, there's no universe where that should cost more than $40.

Look at the 3DS remakes of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on 3DS; they did a new visual pass on those N64 games (the polygon counts and texture detail are dramatically increased), had to adapt the controls to 3DS, and charged full 3DS price for them. Fine. Look at the Switch remake of Link's Awakening; it's an entirely new set of visuals with some minor feature changes, and charged full Switch price. Fine. The Mario games are literally just emulated ROMs, with a few minor control mappings hacked in so they work on Switch control inputs. It's hard to believe this was more than a few months of work, and they're charging full price somehow.

I seriously wonder whether Mario 3D All Stars would've originally just been a free download as long as you subscribe to Nintendo Switch Online (like Super Mario 35). But then Nintendo's holiday releases all got pushed into 2021 due to Covid, so to make up the difference for their financials they decided back in March/April to make All Stars a retail $60 game instead. I just can't believe this project was originally conceived as a $60 game but then they put so little effort into it; it's status either got massively upgraded at some point, or maybe they had improvement planned that all got completely scrapped so they could get it out the door in 2020.

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Shindig

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I like the collection. I've beaten Sunshine and 64 and still come back to them. The hate that comes towards it is still warranted, though. For an anniversary, they kind of pushed this out with very little fanfare and then slapped a time limit on the sale.

The games you get have seen some minor upgrades but not the quality Nintendo have done in the past with things like Kirby's anniversary collection. It's not a celebration. Even the mini consoles had more conveniences and a better packaging than this. There's no icing on this cake.

It's like getting a pair of socks for Christmas. Everybody needs socks and you'll use them, but they don't feel special.

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bondfish

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@bisonhero: The price of the $60 its Nintendo its not surprising one bit, since when a game of their is on "sale" ever its a $50 game. Good points though with the other remakes and I actually do agree that I think COVID played apart in this in some respect whether it was to put a game for this holiday or for them to be on Nintendo online for a limited time.

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Rebel_Scum

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I get annoyed by most “collection” titles tbh. They’re always not so definitive by missing titles that should be key to the collection.

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The_Nubster

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No one is saying the games are bad. They're saying the effort put into them by Nintendo is lacking and that the games deserved more.

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bondfish

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@the_nubster: I agree that the effort is lacking, but what they showed at the direct was exactly what it was. It's not like they made the announcement a year ago and didn't deliver on some promises.

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dsjwetrwete

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The game asking me to save after every star in Mario Galaxy drove me nuts and I stopped playing. And I hate the touch controls so I only played it docked. Do lives still reset to 5 when reload a save, I haven't checked.

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finaldasa

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#12 finaldasa  Moderator

I think the issues come from the use of All-Stars. The original Mario All-Stars saw a handful of beloved Mario games get entirely remade with updated graphics, music, physics, and even some new tech.

The 3D All-Stars didn't do much of that. Mario 64 didn't get a shiny new polish the way the original Super Mario Bros did. It's all shoved together, slapped with the All-Star name so it'll sell well, and then attached to this ridiculous limited time period.

You can still enjoy and even love the game, but Nintendo should've done much better.

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The_Nubster

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@bondfish: The last time they called a game All-Stars, they did a full revamp to bring the games included up to the at-the-time modern standards. Nintendo being upfront about the contents of the collection doesn't somehow make it be less of a bummer. If I told someone I was making them bad pancakes for their birthday, they would still be disappointed about their bad pancakes.

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eukara

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All this collection does is just make me question how and if they're going to ever do a Virtual Console type thing for N64 games on Switch or if they're going to be limited to collections like these for their first-party titles.

I guess this is your chance to get them physically, because who knows what Nintendo will do with their online storefronts in a few years. Their track record for these things is quite bad.

If you wanted to play 30 fps Mario64 on an HDTV you could have played it on the WiiU via VC. I can see how fans are disappointed.

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depecheload

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When Activision does a better job of re-releasing and remastering old games, Nintendo done fucked up.

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vaiz

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I echo what a lot of other people have said in that I think a lot of the maligned feelings towards this product could have been avoided with different branding. I would be willing to bet if they had just called it the Mario 3D Anniversary Collection or something instead of invoking the All-Stars name (which, as several people have already pointed out, did involve complete graphical overhauls back on the SNES), there would be a lot less grumbling. That said, price point and their whole limited release thing still kind of remain an issue, but that's nothing to do with the actual quality of the product, but the way Nintendo is distributing it.

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petesix0

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(Me, lurking in the long grass, waiting for someone to say something about a game I haven't played that lets me compare it to All-Stars Batman and ask if Frank Miller does an OnlyFans yet)

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vaiz

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@petesix0: Nothing compares to All-Star Batman. I bought the absolute version of it because I love bad things and because Jim Lee's art is godlike.

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petesix0

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I've got time for his critics, but

@vaiz said:

Jim Lee's art is godlike.

True true.

However Frank Miller transcribing a year of him snarling into the mirror he keeps dirty on purpose is something so bad that Wikipedia still needs to keep a picture of it up to explain the trauma to the young, like it was a blimp going down.

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doctordonkey

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If the package wasn't 80CAD$, it wouldn't be warranted. But it is, so it is. The fact they used the All-Stars branding on this thing is an absolute joke. The All-Stars package that came before this was perhaps the greatest collection of video games of all time, and had a ton of work done to it. In comparison to that this thing is just...sad.

They either needed to include more games, or do much more extensive work to it. They did neither. They knew this thing would sell like hotcakes because it's Mario, so it was an easy, zero risk venture that will print money for them.

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infantpipoc

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#21  Edited By infantpipoc

I was a late comer to 3D Mario games, as late as 2017 with Odyssey. Suffice to say, Nintendo is aiming this at my "newbie" ass and I took the bait.

Besides Nintendo kinda fucked up by adding "All Star" to the title in North America. My purchase from Japanese server is simply called "Super Mario 3D Collection". They tried to povoke nostalgia but only invited unfavorable comparison.

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Justin258

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#22  Edited By Justin258  Online

It's kind of a joke to ask $60 for this when Activision, who is perpetually at war with EA for the title of "video game publishing Satan", released the Crash and Spyro collections for $40 - and both of those were loaded with features and had completely overhauled graphics. The Spyro collection looks especially nice, too, and runs beautifully and plays extremely well. That's the standard I would like to see Nintendo match when it comes to re-mastering their own products. I'd personally pay $60 just for a version of Mario 64 that got the same treatment as the Spyro collection.

But nope. I can get exactly the same Mario 64 experience by loading up the ROM I've had since high school and playing it on an emulator, with a Switch controller plugged into my PC. I can do that with Sunshine and Galaxy, too (and, for the record, I own legit copies of all three). I can get a better experience by playing Mario 64 DS on an emulator instead.

And Nintendo themselves have done better. Look at Ocarina of Time 3DS. Why can't I get a remaster of Mario 64 as good as that?

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CrimsonJesus

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They literally did nothing to these damn games but port them. They could've at least added free camera support to Mario 64, give you the option of inverting in Sunshine, and changed the way motion controls work in Galaxy but even that was too much work for them. It's a scam in my book. I literally get a better experience playing Galaxy on my PC.

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dsjwetrwete

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#24  Edited By dsjwetrwete

Nintendo's realized that they and their partners can do the bare minimum and their games will still sellout. The mindshare is too strong. Link's Awakening never got a patch to fix the awful stutters. BoTW copied game design that was already long dated with half the content feeling like it came from a repetitive puzzle game. Luigi's Mansion 3 has no challenge and you spend more time vacuuming money you don't need than anything else. Pokemon Sword and Shield is heavily dumbed down in most every aspect.

And it's also why Sony can charge full price for their exclusives while MS has to bet on Game Pass to entice consumers because they're behind the other two.

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MightyDuck

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#25  Edited By MightyDuck

I managed to snag the collection for $50 so I'm fairly content with the games. Honestly, I had never really played any of them. After growing up with a NES and Genesis I went the Sony route going forward so it has been great to jump back into all these games I missed.

Mario Galaxy was phenomenal. I loved every second of it.

I started playing Sunshine today, expecting it to be a trainwreck after watching the GB series. It's not bad, so far. Granted, I'm only about 10 shines in.

Mario 64...I want to like this game so badly, but the controls are just really rough. I know that wasn't as big of a deal back in '96. I'm about 15 stars in and trying to navigate the levels in the basement. It's been a rough go to be honest.

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MechaShadow84

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My main beef with this collection is the "All Stars" moniker. Super Mario All Stars was great on the SNES. All of the games were updated with modern (at the time) graphics and sound. Back when this collection was rumored, I thought Nintendo would have gone all out and recreated Super Mario 64. Instead, none of the games were really improved outside of basic things. I don't really consider this an "All Stars" collection. It's just a basic collection, in my opinion.

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Lv4Monk

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#27  Edited By Lv4Monk

I get the disappointment and the criticism, the anger and hate is typical gamer bullshit. Also the "these are ROMs so why $60?" argument is nonsensical.

Oh, wait, Spyro is $40?

Burn them down.

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MechaShadow84

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Yeah. The hate for this is a bit much. Nintendo has never been a company that really listens to its fans, for better and for worse. This release really shouldn't be a surprise for anyone who's been following Nintendo for a while.

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bondfish

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@the_nubster: I agree with the people that yes its a bummer that certain things weren't done and the potential that it could have been. My argument is that I don't mind buying these games that I have never played before and enjoying them for what they are., and I don't see how that to me or any one else who just wanted that makes this collection crapped on. I think the "ROM" argument is BS look at the Komani collections or the Megan Collections they put out those game are those game. Yes Megaman has the art and stuff but those games are literally ROMs put into a collection.

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Sahalarious

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@bondfish: glad you're having fun, but a fully unaltered mario 64, some improvementd to the worst 3d mario, and a good cerkd. Ib dbehr the dnjeke so ndjdjdj be vgehhe

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MagnetPhonics

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#31  Edited By MagnetPhonics

I would have preferred they did nothing to the games. Instead they've gone to the effort of putting in references to the fact its played on the switch and fucked with the controls. But not actually offered any meaningful improvements.

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vaiz

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@sahalarious: I've never seen someone have a stroke mid sentence before today.

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ajamafalous

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@bondfish: glad you're having fun, but a fully unaltered mario 64, some improvementd to the worst 3d mario, and a good cerkd. Ib dbehr the dnjeke so ndjdjdj be vgehhe

hey are you okay man

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bondfish

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Shindig

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#35  Edited By Shindig

@crimsonjesus said:

They literally did nothing to these damn games but port them.

Aside from the widescreen, 720/1080 support, control changes. And the texture work that comes with that. It's not much, but it's not nothing.

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mrcraggle

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#36  Edited By mrcraggle

THPS 1+2 is $20 cheaper and is a full on remake and this is Activision. Nintendo didn't even do the bare minimum. This is supposed to be a celebration of Mario; it's a franchise that deserves so much better than what this collection offers, especially when modders have been doing this stuff for years and better than Nintendo's $60 product.

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cikame

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#37  Edited By cikame

The minimum i want from a re-release of one of my favourite games is 1080p, 60fps and widescreen, i don't even expect right stick camera control for 64, the C button camera control is a legacy solution and i respect it, but it would have still been nice.
That they're charging so much for a barely touched up emulation, that is also time limited, shows that they don't give a flying f*** about honouring their classic games and preserving them.
I am mostly talking about 64, Sunshine received the most attention and Galaxy didn't need much besides removal of motion controls, but i don't consider the work they did do to be worth $60 (£50 in the UK f*** off).
If they re-released Max Payne 1 with support for modern resolutions and bug fixes i would pay £12 for that, the original release runs fine with some fan fixes, but i'm ok with updating and putting out games in a better condition, if they put out Max Payne 1, 2 and 3 and didn't do anything to the first two games i'd be livid, yes the original versions are still playable, it's not about that, it's about preserving history in an updated form that honours the original version in a way that new players can easily enjoy and that respects original fans.

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LilNatureBoyX

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this collection is basically like buying an HDDVD of a disney vault movie

people dont want to have to repurchase and fully beat M64 every time Nintendo makes a new console or handheld

these should be virtual console games included with subscription and carried to any future system thats back compat with switch (since MS and even Sony are slowly moving to the Steam Forever Library format itd be nice for Nintendo to consider it too)

and theyve all but admitted that there will be future (better) releases of these games later. so this is like a Nintendo equivalent of "I HAVE to play Sonic CD now, ebgames is sold out of Mega Collection Plus 2 Gems yadayada, so I'll just go ahead and download the H.P. Touchpad version..."

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ToughShed

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@lv4monk said:

I get the disappointment and the criticism, the anger and hate is typical gamer bullshit. Also the "these are ROMs so why $60?" argument is nonsensical.

Oh, wait, Spyro is $40?

Burn them down.

so you're comparing this to the full remake of Spyro and you don't' see how that's entirely different?

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The_Nubster

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@lv4monk said:

I get the disappointment and the criticism, the anger and hate is typical gamer bullshit. Also the "these are ROMs so why $60?" argument is nonsensical.

Oh, wait, Spyro is $40?

Burn them down.

so you're comparing this to the full remake of Spyro and you don't' see how that's entirely different?

What is the justification for charging full price for these ROMs, when complete remakes like Spyro and Crash and Tony Hawk are available for less than typical retail price? That's the point being made.

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bondfish

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@the_nubster: The price depends on the person. To me I am fine paying the $60 for these games, cause once again its the ease of obtaining and playing them. I get the point you are trying to make with the remakes, but Nintendo literally never said these were remakes or that they were going to do that so the expectations more or less met for what they were selling.

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bacongames

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This entire collection screams "hey emulators for 3D consoles sure are getting better by the day."

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Erkel

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Nintendo has shown they can definitely put effort into improving a game when it gets ported into another console. Look at Mario 64 on DS, I'll happily take that version of the game over the one in the 3D All Stars bundle.

Mario Sunshine was okay when I played the original, I personally have no desire to replay it again.

I loved Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 on Wii. Whilst I'm certain I'll play it again on Switch, the absence of Galaxy 2 is just a big 'Why?' moment for me.

I don't hate the bundle, but it is a very uninspiring bundle from Nintendo and that's why I'm skipping it.

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FacelessVixen

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Basically, it's the little things (mainly related to frame rates and aspect ratios) that could have made this a more compelling package.

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The_Nubster

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@bondfish: Like I said in another response, you can know what you're being offered and be disappointed with it. Nintendo not pretending these are anything but bland ports doesn't excuse them from their blandness.

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chaz934

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I’m enjoying them. I haven’t played Mario 64 in over a decade and I’ve never played Sunshine or Galaxy.

I was hoping they would have done more work to them (especially 64), but I didn’t expect remakes or anything like that from Nintendo to begin with.

I get why people are bummed, but I still feel like $20 a game isn’t bad for portable versions.

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Shindig

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I discovered last night Galaxy never had continues. Boo.

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MrGreenMan

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It's more that we know Nintendo can and often do better than this, but it's just disappointing they really gave as little shits out this whole release. Is any of this all that surprising, no, not really, just a disappointment.

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FrodoBaggins

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I could have gone for a nice collection of mario games, but in this instance I am definitely voting with my wallet - this collection I will not buy and do not find worth my time or money.

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RimTiggins

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It's completely warranted

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