The pre-3d land 3d mario should not be seen as part of the main series that include the NES trilogy and World. They do not have the spirit.

Compare 64 to 3d Land. Which one feels like the successor to Super Mario World, truly bringing the Super Mario Bros. experience into the 3d realm? Sure, there are several spin off games that offer divergence from the trademark formula, but they are spinoffs, nothing more. No one would say that Mario vs. Donkey Kong or Paper Mario are games in the same vein as Super Mario Bros., the Super Mario 2 duology, 3, or World. They are fine games, but if such entries into the franchise were truly needed, make them obvious spinoffs. Mario's Big Adventure, Mario's Vacation, or Mario: Pasta in Space would be more accurate. This would aid in letting people know that these are not main entries, and should be treated as such.

Despite Luigi coming into his own as a separate character from Mario in Super Mario USA, no one looks at Luigi's Mansion as a follow up to it, due to vastly different mechanics. So what are these 3d games' excuse?

Why does Mario not shrink in these games?!!! Why are Fire Flowers temporary, like the Starman? Why can Mario not breathe underwater indefinitely? Are his lungs weak like Sonic's now?

Mario shrinking with the aid of mushrooms is intrisic to the main titles, with even Super Mario USA having this feature.

It is as strange as having a main line Final Fantasy be westernized and action based..........oh..........

You can't really compare the two since Luigi's mansion is a Metroid style exploration game, i mean you can't even jump, and Super Mario USA is a platformer. While the 2D and 3D Mario games are different from each other, they're still all platforming games.

And what does main entries even mean in the Super Mario franchise? Is it SMB 1-3 and the NSMB games? He shrinks in Super Mario Land but that game deviates a hell of a lot more than the 3D mario games did in my opinion.

This opinion is almost as crazy as Dan still thinking there hasn't been a mainline Mario sequel since Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Are you honestly arguing that 64 didn't have enough spirit?

Look, I don't mean to be rude but this is a pointless thread. It's at the same level as your last one about Jazz.

Sure like to start arguments about nothing, huh?

I think the distinctions and what you view as necessary components of a Mario game are pretty pedantic and picky. The Luigi's Mansion games star a completely different character and are a different genre, so I don't think they're relevant to the discussion at all. SM64, Sunshine, and Galaxy 1/2 each have their own distinct mechanics and gimmicks, but at their core, they're still platformers starring Mario.

You're on fire today with quality threads

...Jay4444444, is that you.

Just going to go ahead and lock this because I don't see it producing any solid debate.