I'm sorry, but to me, all Elder Scrolls games are overrated. The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable. I feel like some enemies are cheap and the first person view just plain gets you killed at times, in my experience. There are always bugs. They've had a bad history with graphical issues (have you SEEN the faces in previous games?). The first person melee is nauseating, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone, even though I have NEVER had that problem with other FP games. I don't know, i just simply do not find any interest in playing Skyrim. It looks moderately pretty (but with games like Batman and Uncharted, the graphical prowess isn't mind boggling), but I just don't love anything about it. Please explain why YOU love it so much?

I'm sorry, but to me, all Elder Scrolls games are overrated. The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable. I feel like some enemies are cheap and the first person view just plain gets you killed at times, in my experience. There are always bugs. They've had a bad history with graphical issues (have you SEEN the faces in previous games?). The first person melee is nauseating, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone, even though I have NEVER had that problem with other FP games. I don't know, i just simply do not find any interest in playing Skyrim. It looks moderately pretty (but with games like Batman and Uncharted, the graphical prowess isn't mind boggling), but I just don't love anything about it. Please explain why YOU love it so much?

Now, compare Oblivion to ANY other current generation Western RPG (and hell, even JRPG). Oblivion will still stand as superior. Why is that?

@project343: I personally found Demon's Souls to be better. Other than that, never been a ginormous RPG fan, overall.

@SpencerTucksen said:

I'm sorry, but to me, all Elder Scrolls games are overrated. The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable. I feel like some enemies are cheap and the first person view just plain gets you killed at times, in my experience. There are always bugs. They've had a bad history with graphical issues (have you SEEN the faces in previous games?). The first person melee is nauseating, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone, even though I have NEVER had that problem with other FP games. I don't know, i just simply do not find any interest in playing Skyrim. It looks moderately pretty (but with games like Batman and Uncharted, the graphical prowess isn't mind boggling), but I just don't love anything about it. Please explain why YOU love it so much?

@SpencerTucksen said:

@project343:Other than that, never been a ginormous RPG fan, overall.

I think I found the problem.

The faces were a art-design flaw, not graphical flaw.

The elder scrolls games are really good. Many people find them really good. I find them extremely entertaining.

@VoshiNova:

Great for you, then. I'm not dissing the people who DO like it. I just want to understand WHY.

I don't like them but I don't like fantasy so that's probably why.

"The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable."

I'm not surprised. I've yet to experience an impeccable game.

@OP: Your not alone in your confusion of the hype surrounding Bethesda's rpg's.

@project343: Umm, that statement requires some serious elaboration.

I'm going to assume you've never played a pen and paper RPG, or read a choose your own adventure book, or even read a regular book and thought "man, it'd be pretty fuckin cool to live in that world."

I'd say the crux of the matter is that last point. It's not about super engaging combat/gameplay mechanics, or top of the line graphics. It's about exploration, character development, and story. For the people looking for these things, Todd Howard and his team are top men. Every other thing that the modern video game industry would tell you is important (like online multiplayer, broken promises of technical superiority, and 5 hour campaigns) is beyond irrelevant.

@RobbleWobble: Still a part of the franchise though. The new faces are derpy too. The whole Oblivion experience to me felt mashed together, and not one part stood out to make it a good game, and from what I have seen of Skyrim, I think this is no exception.

They aren't for everyone. That's all I'm gonna say about it, there really is no way to sell anyone on those games. You either like them or you don't.

They are deeply flawed games, true, but there are shimmering moments of true greatness, unobtainable in other games, in the series.

For me, i love the elderscrolls for its huge replayability. there are a ton of ways to go about playing the game. and the fact that choices you make impact the world or at least impact the quest you do. and the fact that you can do almost whatever you want definitely doesnt hurt.

i dunno, its all about preference (obviously). i never liked RPGs that were too linear. i like being able to go dick around and do my own thing.

I think to really enjoy an elder scrolls game you have to let yourself get lost in the world. There will always be games that have more precise combat, better graphics, or a more focused story . But I don't think any game have ever been able to create a world as immersive and alive as Bethesda has. Not even close.

@AyKay_47: Could not agree more, I think you just nailed the reason I love Elder Scrolls games. It's all about that sense of exploration and wonder; the curiosity that their worlds inspire is second to none.

I really like the fact that I can set out for one quest only 4 hours later I'm on the opposite side of the map searching around in some random ass cave.

You can just loose yourself in the environment and simply explore.

@project343 said:

Now, compare Oblivion to ANY other current generation Western RPG (and hell, even JRPG). Oblivion will still stand as superior. Why is that?

Because current generation Western RPGs are pretty shitty.

@strangone said:

@project343 said:

Now, compare Oblivion to ANY other current generation Western RPG (and hell, even JRPG). Oblivion will still stand as superior. Why is that?

Because current generation Western RPGs are pretty shitty.

Yeah, and Oblivion is amongst the bottom of the shit barrel. It's a veritable ocean of mediocre content with level scaling and poor "RPG"/hike sim mechanics.

@SpencerTucksen said:

I'm sorry, but to me, all Elder Scrolls games are overrated. The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable. I feel like some enemies are cheap and the first person view just plain gets you killed at times, in my experience. There are always bugs. They've had a bad history with graphical issues (have you SEEN the faces in previous games?). The first person melee is nauseating, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone, even though I have NEVER had that problem with other FP games. I don't know, i just simply do not find any interest in playing Skyrim. It looks moderately pretty (but with games like Batman and Uncharted, the graphical prowess isn't mind boggling), but I just don't love anything about it. Please explain why YOU love it so much?

You failed to mention at any point the sense of discovery, or exploration, or the satisfying lore that stands behind everything.

You're clearly not the target audience.

Oblivion scratches my 'discover shit and explore stuff' itch, just like Morrowind did, just like Fallout 3 did, just like Skyrim will. I just love wandering around and finding things, be it a new enemy, a new location, or some wicked ass weapon to kill a new enemy in a new location with.

here is My Personal (Negative) Opinion of u

um u are overrated u are cheap u get it

i love ES because i can do what ever the fuck i want in a setting i love BAM

That is why. ;) xoxo

Why do I love it so much? Because I have not experienced ANY of the problems you described, nor do I have some anal-retentive obsession for all new games to be visually amazing down to the last twig and stone. The Elder Scrolls games do what most others fear and that is provide an entertaining sandbox-style experience. It is by no means a true sandbox game like Shores of Hazeron or Minecraft, but it gives you a large amount of freedom to do what you want while also providing an engaging story and lore. IMO Oblivion was much more bland than the crazy world of Morrowind, but neither game stopped me from sinking 100+ hours into them. Skyrim is a day-one, week-long-marathon purchase for me.

I never understand questions like this about any game.

Want to know why people like a particular game? Read a bloody review, it'll sum up the high points for you. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the quality of the game.

@SpencerTucksen said:

@project343: I personally found Demon's Souls to be better. Other than that, never been a ginormous RPG fan, overall.

I think you could make a compelling argument for Demon's/Dark Souls. And maybe the Mass Effect series. But the fact that finding comparably excellent RPGs released in the past 6 years is telling to both the quality of Oblivion and maybe the lack of solid role-playing games released this generation.

@project343 said:

@SpencerTucksen said:

@project343: I personally found Demon's Souls to be better. Other than that, never been a ginormous RPG fan, overall.

I think you could make a compelling argument for Demon's/Dark Souls. And maybe the Mass Effect series. But the fact that finding comparably excellent RPGs released in the past 6 years is telling to both the quality of Oblivion and maybe the lack of solid role-playing games released this generation.

Plus the Souls games are Dungeon Crawlers and Mass Effect is a linear action-RPG. More direct comparisons would be games like Gothic 4 or Two Worlds, and those games were shit.

There's a laundry list of things that Elder Scrolls games could do better, that's obvious and nobody is denying that, but the fact is there's nothing else quite like it.

@SpencerTucksen: I like building my own character and exploring. Soaking up the atmosphere. Interacting with people and discovering secrets. I'm more of a Fallout fan than an Elder Scrolls fan, but I'm thinking Skyrim will give me that fix I've been craving since Fallout: New Vegas. Which I'm still playing, by the way.

I couldn't care less about the combat. I always play these games on the easiest settings because I don't play them for a challenge, I play for the experience.

Hope that answers your question!

I enjoy them a lot more than the standard JRPG. I think my main reasoning is the freedom of choice. In a lot of RPGs they will stonewall you. Block off continents. Tell you you can't leave the Inn until we've talked to the inn keeper! In elder scrolls you don't even have to touch the main quest. You do what you want. There will be 150 dungeons in skyrim. That's me shitting my pants and being amazed and curious over and over. Do I want to join a faction? Some of them have stories as good if not better than the main storyline. It goes on and on.

I understand the sentiment about bugs and flaws. The games are such a large under taking, it's bound to happen. They are improving the games with every title they publish. A lot of people I know that don't enjoy the games is because they want to be railroaded. They want a very scripted linear experience. But if you want an RPG sandbox, I don't think anything else comes close.

i like tes games and enjoy them however i wouldnt put them at the top

oblivion was big and grand but lets face it everything was the same

all the faces stemmed off of one face and it was very noticeable also there were like only 5 different voices and most of the random caves are the same

i think dragon age origins is wayyyy better and so is kotor and me

They aren't for everyone. That's all I'm gonna say about it, there really is no way to sell anyone on those games. You either like them or you don't.

Guys, I don't like RPGs. Explain to me why I don't like this RPG.

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Guys, I don't like RPGs. Explain to me why I don't like this RPG.

Well... it's complicated.

@project343 said:

Now, compare Oblivion to ANY other current generation Western RPG (and hell, even JRPG). Oblivion will still stand as superior. Why is that?

You're welcome to your opinion. As I am mine, and I personally thought that Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, The Witcher, The Witcher 2, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls & heck even Fable II were better than Oblivion.

Oblivion had so much potential, but wasted it with repetitive quests and poor combat.

I dunno how people find games with load screens 'immersive'. Oblivion also had way too much jank to feel like a cohesive experience and I hope Skyrim improves on this.

I'm sorry, but to me, all Elder Scrolls games are overrated. The quality of gameplay is good, but not impeccable. I feel like some enemies are cheap and the first person view just plain gets you killed at times, in my experience. There are always bugs. They've had a bad history with graphical issues (have you SEEN the faces in previous games?). The first person melee is nauseating, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone, even though I have NEVER had that problem with other FP games. I don't know, i just simply do not find any interest in playing Skyrim. It looks moderately pretty (but with games like Batman and Uncharted, the graphical prowess isn't mind boggling), but I just don't love anything about it. Please explain why YOU love it so much?

@President_Barackbar said:

They aren't for everyone. That's all I'm gonna say about it, there really is no way to sell anyone on those games. You either like them or you don't.

Not necessarily. On the PC side, there have been mods that have fixed nearly every complaint I had with the game; unsatisfying magic, boring combat, a lack of and/or focus on realistically bouncing breasts...

@Funkydupe said:

I'm not surprised. I've yet to experience an impeccable game.

I was once told by a professor that my ability to play the game he was featured in was impeccable.

@CaLe said:

I dunno how people find games with load screens 'immersive'.

Yeah. And games with title screens and menus. And music, who is supposed to be playing that music?! I mean, you know?

@owl_of_minerva said:

@strangone said:

@project343 said:

Now, compare Oblivion to ANY other current generation Western RPG (and hell, even JRPG). Oblivion will still stand as superior. Why is that?

Because current generation Western RPGs are pretty shitty.

Yeah, and Oblivion is amongst the bottom of the shit barrel. It's a veritable ocean of mediocre content with level scaling and poor "RPG"/hike sim mechanics.

I agree, Oblivion is not alright, it's really bad. I have a hard time thinking of positive things to say about it.

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

Guys, I don't like RPGs. Explain to me why I don't like this RPG.

You don't like taking out tanks with rocket-propelled grenades?

@CaLe said:

I dunno how people find games with load screens 'immersive'.

Yeah. And games with title screens and menus. And music, who is supposed to be playing that music?! I mean, you know?

I respectfully disagree with you sir. Even though I'm not a big fan of fantasy games (I'll take post-apocalyptic or cyberpunk themed games over fantasy games any day of the week) i still think Oblivion is an excellent game. The biggest problems Oblivion has is the shitty level scaling system and the tedious main quest plot, but (like with most Bethesda games) I've found that secondary quests and faction quests are a lot more interesting and fun. Still, you can find many better RPG games, although i may be biased as i mentioned that I'm not a big fan of fantasy. Still Oblivion does a lot of stuff extremely well, it's open nature, the lore and universe built around Oblivion (and Elder Scrolls games), character progression, being able to do whatever the **** you want at any given moment, awesome spell casting system (probably the best I've come across). Oblivion's world and universe is easy to get lost in.
There are better games out there, better RPG games, but that's more a matter of opinion and tastes, and that does not make Oblivion any less great.

How did you get a negative opinion of Skyrim when that game isn't going to be out for a while longer?

@Creamypies said:

You're welcome to your opinion. As I am mine, and I personally thought that Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins, The Witcher, The Witcher 2, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Demon's Souls, Dark Souls & heck even Fable II were better than Oblivion.

Oblivion had so much potential, but wasted it with repetitive quests and poor combat.

This is truly a battle of opinions here. Because I think some of the strongest aspects of Oblivion are the combat and quest design. Aside from Bethesda's (and Obsidian's) Fallout games, I'd say Oblivion has some of the most enjoyable, well written, and varied quests in modern-day role-playing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm deeply in love with everything on your list (sans the Soul series), but most of the sidequests in Dragon Age series, Mass Effect series, Witcher series work out to be: walk into town and see quests, run around and collect quests, ignore whatever minuscule contextual story was shoe-horned into their design, run off and complete quests in the most efficient way possible... rinse and repeat.

In Oblivion, you explore towns, hear compelling rumors, ask people about it, and stumble into a typically bizarre problem. The problem is compelling enough to investigate. Eventually, you end up stumbling into a painter who's gotten himself stuck in a painted world, or you've found a secret cult society underneath a small town, or you end up in someone's twisted dreams to save them from an eternal sleep. When you finish these quests, you aren't given any additional reward or experience--maybe an item of potential value, but nothing entirely enticing--but opportunity to delve into a bizarre adventure was all the reward you would want.

And the combat is probably something I couldn't argue against. I think most people have a problem with Oblivion's lack of visceral melee combat. I typically play a Mage or Ranger, which both feel completely fantastic in first person. I think I enjoy the game's combat system more than Fallout 3/New Vegas's for the random-ass tools that Oblivion hands you. You could drink a potion that makes you run insanely fast with nightvision... then go into a castle and have a riot. Or you could make a spell that frenzies the city guard into attacking random civilians, steal their keys, and loot their houses (legally). I think Oblivion is one of the strongest sandboxes for random-ass-RPG-antics ever. And maybe that's why I love it so much. But it's a love that is entirely dependent on the individual. If you're a main-quest-focused Warrior-type with zero creativity... you'll probably hate the game. And I completely accept that.

I hated Oblivion with a passion. I thought since it was made by the same Dev who brought us Fallout 3, that it had to be good. I couldn't stand the world or RPG elements in it, but for some reason, everything that has been released about Skyrim has made me hyped and more accepting of that game.

Explain that one.

@SpencerTucksen said:

@VoshiNova:

Great for you, then. I'm not dissing the people who DO like it. I just want to understand WHY.

why do some people like chicken and some people not like chicken. its just different tastes dude, thats all.

if i was you i just wouldn't play them any more and move on.

why do you care why other people like them

I respect your opinion, for my part I think that all first and third person shooters are made for retards, I think that sports games are for obese people and I am convinced that Japan is a fictional land and dose not actually exist.

I thought Oblivion had some really cool aspects. Just the scope of the world and all the things to do were incredible IMO. However, I thought the melee combat was bad, loading screens were lengthy (PS3), and I'm not sure the chosen level scaling system worked great. Overall though, the experience was something that I don't get from any other games. I've skipped the Fallout games so I'm excited to jump into Skyrim and hopefully it'll be a big jump up from my experience with Oblivion.

@SlashDance

@project343 said:

@SpencerTucksen said:

@project343: I personally found Demon's Souls to be better. Other than that, never been a ginormous RPG fan, overall.

I think you could make a compelling argument for Demon's/Dark Souls. And maybe the Mass Effect series. But the fact that finding comparably excellent RPGs released in the past 6 years is telling to both the quality of Oblivion and maybe the lack of solid role-playing games released this generation.

Plus the Souls games are Dungeon Crawlers and Mass Effect is a linear action-RPG. More direct comparisons would be games like Gothic 4 or Two Worlds, and those games were shit.

There's a laundry list of things that Elder Scrolls games could do better, that's obvious and nobody is denying that, but the fact is there's nothing else quite like it.

Oblivion makes a good world. Find an open world game with better and more varied environments. Now find one that satisfies loot lust. Now find one that lets you play the game in the way of your choosing. All of these things are necessary for a game to be superior to Elder Scrolls games in ways that will cause people to stop playing them. It's one of those tasks that requires resources beyond what most companies are willing to throw at a new license.

It's a little like the Total War games (at least before Shogun). The only reason people put up with all the shitty design was that it had no direct competition and yet fills a niche that is very satisfying for some people. I'm not an Elder Scrolls 'fan', per se... but I definitely got my money's worth out of both Oblivion & Morrowind before I got tired of their shit and decided that maybe they weren't good enough. I'll play Skyrim expecting at least as much.