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    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

    Game » consists of 30 releases. Released Nov 11, 2011

    The fifth installment in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls franchise is set in the eponymous province of Skyrim, where the ancient threat of dragons, led by the sinister Alduin, is rising again to threaten all mortal races. Only the player, as the prophesied hero the Dovahkiin, can save the world from destruction.

    Skyrim and Diminishing Returns

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    Seppli

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    Edited By Seppli

    I revisited Skyrim today. After a 2 month hiatus. I thought the diminishing returns would have cooled down by now.

    I'm 100+ hours into my playthrough, did most of the faction and main settlement storylines except for the Rebellion, also did tonnes of sidequests - yet I feel like I need to finish the main quest before I can file Skyrim conclusively under 'Done with it'.

    Since the 80 hours mark, I feel like I've seen and done it all, even though I obviously haven't. I grew tired of sneaky archery, so I went for in-your-face dualwielding one-handed weapons, then to sneaky daggers, then to destruction magic (oh how horribly broken magic scales with level ups). I'm done with crafting too. If I go with my strongest gear and playstyle, even Master difficulty is child's play.

    I'm saturated on immersing myself in the world simulation. I did a fair amount of story stuff, most of which wasn't as impactful as I hoped. I especially hoped the faction stuff to have a more meaningful endgame - some sort of managing aspect once I'm the guild leader. Alas, it is but an endless supply of shallow sidequests. I did a tonne of explortation and scavenging. Crafted the most powerful items. Dabbled in all schools of magic. Screwed with NPCs. Bought and furnished houses.

    When it comes down to it though, all the good stuff in Skyrim has little to do with its completion status. As soon as 'being in Skyrim' grows stale, there's no reason ever going back. Maybe now's the time to turn Skyrim into a Porno with some of the more filthy mods. On second thought. No.

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    Seppli

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    #1  Edited By Seppli

    I revisited Skyrim today. After a 2 month hiatus. I thought the diminishing returns would have cooled down by now.

    I'm 100+ hours into my playthrough, did most of the faction and main settlement storylines except for the Rebellion, also did tonnes of sidequests - yet I feel like I need to finish the main quest before I can file Skyrim conclusively under 'Done with it'.

    Since the 80 hours mark, I feel like I've seen and done it all, even though I obviously haven't. I grew tired of sneaky archery, so I went for in-your-face dualwielding one-handed weapons, then to sneaky daggers, then to destruction magic (oh how horribly broken magic scales with level ups). I'm done with crafting too. If I go with my strongest gear and playstyle, even Master difficulty is child's play.

    I'm saturated on immersing myself in the world simulation. I did a fair amount of story stuff, most of which wasn't as impactful as I hoped. I especially hoped the faction stuff to have a more meaningful endgame - some sort of managing aspect once I'm the guild leader. Alas, it is but an endless supply of shallow sidequests. I did a tonne of explortation and scavenging. Crafted the most powerful items. Dabbled in all schools of magic. Screwed with NPCs. Bought and furnished houses.

    When it comes down to it though, all the good stuff in Skyrim has little to do with its completion status. As soon as 'being in Skyrim' grows stale, there's no reason ever going back. Maybe now's the time to turn Skyrim into a Porno with some of the more filthy mods. On second thought. No.

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    musubi

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    #2  Edited By musubi

    CLEAN UP YOUR NORD WOMEN.

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    cstrang

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    #3  Edited By cstrang

    That tends to happen when you spend more than 3 days of waking life on... anything.

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    penguindust

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    #4  Edited By penguindust

    It will be interesting to see if you feel this same way about Kingdoms of Amalur after 80-100 hours.

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    jetsetwillie

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    #5  Edited By jetsetwillie

    you don't have to play it you know. their's load of other stuff to play

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    Seppli

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    #6  Edited By Seppli

    @cstrang said:

    That tends to happen when you spend more than 3 days of waking life on... anything.

    Got to tell that to your wife, your children and your boss at work...

    BIOCHEMISTRY! To the rescue.

    @PenguinDust said:

    It will be interesting to see if you feel this same way about Kingdoms of Amalur after 80-100 hours.

    Likely gonna be similar with diminishing returns hitting around that time, though I suppose there's far less tedium in KoA:R's mechancis making 'sticking with it to the end' way more bearable after hitting saturation.

    @jetsetwillie said:

    you don't have to play it you know. their's load of other stuff to play

    Skate 3's in the mail and should be here tomorrow. No worries.

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    The_Ruiner

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    #7  Edited By The_Ruiner

    you played if for 100 hours.... you got your 60 bucks worth.... now go make a snow man...

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    Vinny_Says

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    #8  Edited By Vinny_Says

    You name me another game where you've spent 100+ hours and don't feel diminishing returns. What exactly is your argument here?

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    Seppli

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    #9  Edited By Seppli

    @The_Ruiner said:

    you played if for 100 hours.... you got your 60 bucks worth.... now go make a snow man...

    Not complaining really. Skyrim is one of my favorite game experiences of 2011. The value proposition on it is insane. Just a bit bummed out that I ran out of steam before completing the main quest. And how somehow the core mechanics and main storyline don't provide enough of an incentive to stick with it to the end.

    I guess there's a reason why I usually do the main quest in Bethesda games first, before going off the deep end. It usually takes like 10-20 hours of being 'godlike', before the endgame powertrip gets way too stale. And this time I really tried to squeeze every minute of joy out of it, including radical playstyle changes. Sadly it happend before I 'officially finished' Skyrim.

    Adding a macro-level gameplay element could be the remedy of such woes. Kinda like Fable does with properties. Only with a more interesting managing aspect. I kinda hoped that would be the reward for completing the faction questline. Recruiting thieves. Sending them out on missions. Earning money for guild. Investing it in the guild headquarters.

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    Seppli

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    #10  Edited By Seppli

    @PenguinDust said:

    It will be interesting to see if you feel this same way about Kingdoms of Amalur after 80-100 hours.

    Just thinking about Dark Souls, of which I grew tired around the 60 hours mark. Still stuck with it to the end, which happend around the 80 hours mark. While growing stale, the core mechanics stayed sufficiently exciting. Even tried NG+, but that's just stupid hard and a commitment beyond what I am willing to give the Souls series.

    @Vinny_Says
    said:

    You name me another game where you've spent 100+ hours and don't feel diminishing returns. What exactly is your argument here?

    WoW and Battlefield for me. I took over a year of './played' and having reached 'all endgame PvE content clear'-status several times, waiting on fresh content, before WoW lost me. I can obsessively play Battlefield games for years if I want to. Resulting experiences vary from amazingly awesome to infuriatingly frustrating - but I'm alway passionate about the gameplay.

    Endgame design is something the Elder Scrolls series hasn't gotten down yet. It's not dynamic, challenging and addicting enough and I don't see doing multiple playthroughs being viable, as just too much would be lost to redundancy.

    Not trying to make a point here. Just passin' the time rambling on a blog post about what I played today and how I felt about it.

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    jetsetwillie

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    #11  Edited By jetsetwillie

    @Seppli said:

    @cstrang said:

    That tends to happen when you spend more than 3 days of waking life on... anything.

    Got to tell that to your wife, your children and your boss at work...

    BIOCHEMISTRY! To the rescue.

    @PenguinDust said:

    It will be interesting to see if you feel this same way about Kingdoms of Amalur after 80-100 hours.

    Likely gonna be similar with diminishing returns hitting around that time, though I suppose there's far less tedium in KoA:R's mechancis making 'sticking with it to the end' way more bearable after hitting saturation.

    @jetsetwillie said:

    you don't have to play it you know. their's load of other stuff to play

    Skate 3's in the mail and should be here tomorrow. No worries.

    so shall we expect a 'it didn't live up to my lofty expectations' thread next week then

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    optimusprime223

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    #12  Edited By optimusprime223

    64 hours in myself, gonna finish up the Thieves Guild stuff, then maybe try and get some kick ass armour, then finish the main quest as Delphine is waiting for me in Riverwood. Assuming my copy dont break before that point, I think I only have about 20 hours left if that...

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    Seppli

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    #13  Edited By Seppli

    @jetsetwillie said:

    @Seppli said:

    @cstrang said:

    That tends to happen when you spend more than 3 days of waking life on... anything.

    Got to tell that to your wife, your children and your boss at work...

    BIOCHEMISTRY! To the rescue.

    @PenguinDust said:

    It will be interesting to see if you feel this same way about Kingdoms of Amalur after 80-100 hours.

    Likely gonna be similar with diminishing returns hitting around that time, though I suppose there's far less tedium in KoA:R's mechancis making 'sticking with it to the end' way more bearable after hitting saturation.

    @jetsetwillie said:

    you don't have to play it you know. their's load of other stuff to play

    Skate 3's in the mail and should be here tomorrow. No worries.

    so shall we expect a 'it didn't live up to my lofty expectations' thread next week then

    If you're talking Kingdom of Amalur : Reckoning - I have no doubt it will deliver a substantial and enjoyable gameplay experience for many many hours, just like Dark Souls and Skyrim. If it'll last past the 100 hours mark and beyond? I honestly don't know. Few games do.

    What a wierd comment to make.

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    Capum15

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    #14  Edited By Capum15

    I'm sure I've spent over 100 hours in Skyrim, and I don't feel it getting stale or anything. But then again, there are quite a few games I can play over and over again, and if I start to get tired of them, I just switch to another for a while.

    Such as Fallout 3, New Vegas, Minecraft, Terraria, AI War: Fleet Command, Half Life 2, World in Conflict, various Command and Conquer games, Halo, Mercs 2, Company of Heroes...there's a lot.

    Different strokes, eh?

    Also, I love PC mods. I stayed with Fallout 3 for hundreds (guessing 300+) hours due to them. It'll probably be the same when the Skyrim creation kit releases and the modders go crazy.

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    Storms

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    #15  Edited By Storms

    Over 500 hours in now. There are moments when I get bored but then I just make myself unbored. For awhile, I thought I might put the game down. Then I invented a Khajiit mage named Ma'Yushii. Whole new game, seeking out every artifact of power to make her something of a goddess. 
     
    The way to extract everything out of Skyrim is to roleplay. 
     
    edit: which usually means not doing every possible thing with one single character...

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    Vinny_Says

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    #16  Edited By Vinny_Says

    @Seppli: Uhh yeah you can't really compare Battlefield to Skyrim....unless you still play the singleplayer campaign over and over and over

    Also TES never really had an endgame (I haven't played arena or daggerfall so maybe I'm wrong) but I'm willing to bet your jornal is still full of miscelaneous quests. I say give those a try there are some gems in there. Also I presume you're lucky enough to be playing on PC, give those mods a look; there's a world of possibilities out there.

    I would argue that of all the singleplayer games out there Bethesda makes the best lasting experiences around. I have over 80 hours in Oblivion, 150+ hours in Fallout, 100+ hours in New Vegas, 200+ hours in Skyrim, every achievement in every one of these games and I could still totally pop in any of those and have a great time. Achievements are like crack cocaine to me so I tend to stop playing games when the chance of earning achievements is gone.

    Yeah I'm probably coming from the other end of the spectrum here....

    When it comes down to it though, all the good stuff in Skyrim has little to do with its completion status. As soon as 'being in Skyrim' grows stale, there's no reason ever going back.

    it has to do with roleplaying and adventuring

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    Seppli

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    #17  Edited By Seppli

    @Capum15 said:

    I'm sure I've spent over 100 hours in Skyrim, and I don't feel it getting stale or anything. But then again, there are quite a few games I can play over and over again, and if I start to get tired of them, I just switch to another for a while.Such as Fallout 3, New Vegas, Minecraft, Terraria, AI War: Fleet Command, Half Life 2, World in Conflict, various Command and Conquer games, Halo, Mercs 2, Company of Heroes...there's a lot.Different strokes, eh?Also, I love PC mods. I stayed with Fallout 3 for hundreds (guessing 300+) hours due to them. It'll probably be the same when the Skyrim creation kit releases and the modders go crazy.

    It's just, there's little to look forward to where I'm at. My character can't become more godlike. Oneshotting dragons and giants and what have you. There isn't any more powerful loot in the game, than I can craft myself. Most quests aren't that enjoyable and most quests of substance I have already done.

    Past lvl 50 leveling up becomes a chore and doesn't really add anything anyways, because melee and archery oneshots most enemies even on 'Master' difficulty, especially if crafting skills are maxed out. Again - loot becomes pointless because of crafting. And there's just so many times I can shoot people in the face with an arrow, slit their throats, burn them to a crisp - before the entertainment value is completely diminished. I've probably killed 100 dragons by now, it was awesome the first dozen times, now it doesn't really do much anymore.

    I guess if there was meaningful mechanics for randomly generated loot, which keeps on getting better. More open-ended leveling. Combat stayed somewhat balanced and challenging. Yeah - I could stay in Skyrim for much longer and be entertained. Sadly, for my sensibilties, the game breaks at some point, mostly because of OP crafting - there's just so much time I can spend on a powertrip without having anything to look forward to.

    Combat mechanics for the most parts is a system of trading blows, which just doesn't scale well. It cannot become more challenging. At best it can force you to exploit consumables and buffs to the max, but that's pretty much the extent of what such a system is capable of - scalingwise.

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    Seppli

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    #18  Edited By Seppli

    @Storms said:

    Over 500 hours in now. There are moments when I get bored but then I just make myself unbored. For awhile, I thought I might put the game down. Then I invented a Khajiit mage named Ma'Yushii. Whole new game, seeking out every artifact of power to make her something of a goddess. The way to extract everything out of Skyrim is to roleplay. edit: which usually means not doing every possible thing with one single character...

    I'm a 'one thorough playthrough' kinda guy. Playing it thoroughly, at some point the game simply breaks. The mechanics meant to motivate me cease to work properly and the game falls apart. I'm a lvl 57 Ninja Berserker Fire Mage Summoner and most legendary Blacksmith and Enchanter that ever lived. Combat - broken. Loot - broken. Leveling - broken. Exploration - done. Quests and Stories - not that great to begin with.

    At this point - while I have trouble to keep on going and finish up my 'thorough playthrough', you just roll a new character - which unbreaks the game. Guess I could roll a shadowmage, going sneaky with illusion magic and conjured weapons and do the mainquest and rebellion there, instead of forcing it with my gamebreakingly overpowered character. Guess that's how I'll do it, next time when I come around to it.

    @Vinny_Says:

    Dude asked me to name games which motivate me past the 100 hours mark and I named two which sprung to my head. No direct correlation to Skyrim otherwise.

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    Storms

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    #19  Edited By Storms
    @Seppli: I think you play videogames for different reasons than hardcore Skyrim fans do. Your mindset is different. When I was waiting in line for Skyrim, I wasn't thinking about the loot I would find or how interesting the combat would be -- the combat is first person hack'n'slash, you can't do much more in that view than YOU as a person could do. I like it, it feels realistic. I wasn't thinking about how fun it would be for ME to kill dragons, I was thinking about how it would feel from my character's perspective -- and I've never had a character that killed more than 16 dragons. I was waiting for the roleplaying experience of my life, and I got it. I play because as I walk from Riften to Windhelm I want to fulfill the goals of Agronak gro-Shurac the Orc, Ma'Yushii the Khajiit mage or Qoranil the Bosmer full of rage. I want to, but it's dark out and the cold is getting to me. So I suppose I'll have to spend the night with my friends at Darkwater Crossing -- or kill them all and sleep in their beds, if I'm Qoranil. 
     
    I'm going to play a pacifist character in Skyrim, soon. Not because it will make the game more challenging or even to directly spice it up, but because my character will be morally opposed to hurting others. Likewise, I've only ever had ONE character that maxed out Smithing -- because it didn't fit with my thief, my alchemist, my mage or any others. And that one character did not spam leather bracers. Thus, "OP crafting" isn't something I've experienced much. 
     
    I've noticed a lot of people who try to play Skyrim like it's Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto or even Saints Row. Some kind of light-hearted romp. People who play it like that get the least out of the game. I'm not saying you are such a person. It's perfectly valid to get tired of any game after more than 100 hours, no matter how large and open. But  the only other thread on GB that hints at a person who really enjoyed Skyrim having no desire to play any more also has a single character that's done it all -- doesn't sound like either of you roleplayed much, if at all. And I'm not going to insist that roleplaying is the only way to play. But it looks like it is the only way to get the full experience -- whether you tap that potential is up to you. I'm sure there's something I could do to make a game like Battlefield last me more than 6-9 hours doing multiplayer)... I just don't feel like it.
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    Seppli

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    #20  Edited By Seppli

    @Storms:

    I do roleplay a bit every now and then, but I generally roleplay myself rather than made up characters and enhance the experience by taking arbitrary elements like the passage of in-game time more seriously. Making up characters and giving them life with a 'performance' is pro stuff really and beyond me for the most parts. You bring the quality gameplay to Skyrim, it's not in there by design - because strictly as a game, past a certain achievement treshhold, the game breaks and stops being motivating and fun.

    I only have so much self-restraint, before I 'start playing the game' again. Just because I want to get shit done. Ironically - I prefer roleplaying in games like GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption without a RPG progression system, where acting like a real human being instead of roadrage fueled psychopath easily adds a quality to the gameworld which is lost otherwise.

    I can see how as a stage for your 'roleplaying performance', Skyrim does deliver endless replayability. As a gamer's game though, there's a definite breaking point after which the half-life period of fun drastically decreases and eventually drops to almost zero, because mechanically it isn't that much fun when a character is maxed out and god-like.

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    #21  Edited By Seppli

    @Storms:

    To be more concise. I roleplay to give the gameworld more substance, to add a realstic texture and flavor to it. I don't invent a persona and roleplay as it.

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    Grimluck343

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    #22  Edited By Grimluck343

    @Seppli said:

    I'm 100+ hours into my playthrough, did most of the faction and main settlement storylines except for the Rebellion, also did tonnes of sidequests - yet I feel like I need to finish the main quest before I can file Skyrim conclusively under 'Done with it'.

    The main quest is like... 10 hours. Tops. DO IT!

    I think the diminishing returns kick in for different people depending on what you're looking to get out of the game. If you're just in it for the loot or the combat I think that DRs are going to kick in a lot sooner than if your are in it for the actual role-playing.

    For me personally, the reason I logged over 100 hours in Morrowind and about 80 hours in Oblivion is for the lore - the cosmology specifically. The interactions between aedra and daedra, CHIM, the Tribunal, the interesting ways in which the Empire will skew their telling of certain events to paint their Imperial interests in a better light, the political intrigue, discovering new little tidbits and pieces of information about those things are what keep me coming back.

    And the clean faces mod.

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    MightyDuck

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    #23  Edited By MightyDuck

    I hit a wall after about 15 hours. I took a bit of a break and pushed through the rest for the companions and main quest. Currently I'm at about 35 hours and feeling burnt out again.

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    benspyda

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    #24  Edited By benspyda

    I've put in over 200 hours worth and I'm only just starting to feel that way. But I also did the same with Oblivion.

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    Storms

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    #25  Edited By Storms
    @Grimluck343:  CHIM was one of the most amazing things to ever hit a game, ever. The concept is one of the reasons it's even hard for me to outright say Skyrim is a better game than Morrowind. Lucid dreaming, the Nervarine, cheat codes of the universe. There's some good metaphysical stuff in Skyrim, too, but not quite as good. Oblivion also dealt heavily with Aedra and Daedra, perhaps even moreso -- just in more of a direct way.
     
    What's really interesting me in this one is the Thalmor and how they manipulate everything behind the scenes.  To the point where they even debate whether the Dragons will continue to keep their foes in disarray or whether their return might unite their enemies ( MANIPULATE ALL  THE THINGS ). Brilliant stuff. And then there's just the sheer amazingness that you get to SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content. do all that Shouting stuff I read about in Morrowind and actually go to SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content. But not so much Aedra and Daedra here, aside from learning more about beings like Nocturnal and Boethiah. It's just a good thing the Thalmor didn't figure out the dragons could help them in their goal of destroying "reality".
     
    @Seppli: I've read other posts of yours before and I think you're intelligent and not trollish -- I respect you. Before we go any further, are you looking to extend your Skyrim experience or are you just using this outlet to express your disappointment? 
     
    Because roleplaying's not anything like you think it is. It's not difficult or complicated or only for the super-nerd "elite". I mean, they even encourage you to sleep at night by giving you an 8-hour well-rested bonus. It also doesn't have to be a task -- it can be a source of fun. My wife roleplays in Skyrim to a far lesser extent than I do -- but she roleplays a little bit more each time, to up the ante (she won't even touch a game where you can't at least design your own character). But maybe it's not fun for everyone. Maybe you couldn't make it fun for you, even if you tried. You don't have to like roleplaying but you might have to like roleplaying to get maximum enjoyment out of a true roleplaying game like Skyrim. Maybe we just have to understand that we get different things out of games and hope that your games don't become like Skyrim and my games don't become like WoW and Battlefield.
    But if you've done nearly everything with this single character, it's certainly possible that Skyrim's over for you even if you were to start roleplaying now and learn that you like it. After I finish my current character, I'll have done pretty much everything in the game. And then I will probably put it down for awhile, forget a few things, and then come back as my penultimate roleplaying character. After I play Amalur and maybe try Uncharted and Arkham City (which I probably won't care that much for because in one I'm stuck as Drake and it's a shooter, and in the other I'm stuck playing Batman).
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    Neeshka

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    #26  Edited By Neeshka

    I would suggest doing some of the daedric quests; especially the misty grove one. Finish the elder scrolls questline and the mage guild quests. Honestly though this is a problem generic to Bethesda's game design. They really shine at making a very beautiful world which you *can* potentially roleplay in; and the games are populated with hundreds of npc's that sort of interact with each other. Core game mechanics though; bethesda seems to fall flat. That's why if you're a normal gamer that really isn't into roleplaying and related mods; you'll get fed up of the game rather quickly. If you do choose to optimize your character even a bit, you'll get bored even sooner. Once the initial charm of exploring some of the locations wears off, there really isn't anything to pull you in *IF* you aren't a LARPer type gamer. Skyrim hasn't really got the addictive combat/loot aspect of RPGs down at all, and the narratives aren't that strong compared to most other RPGs.

    It's basically just a sandbox world where you have to make your own fun. Fairly odd way to make a video game imo.

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    #27  Edited By Neeshka

    @Seppli said:

    @Storms:

    To be more concise. I roleplay to give the gameworld more substance, to add a realstic texture and flavor to it. I don't invent a persona and roleplay as it.

    Yeah that's what I do too. I'm pretty sure most gamers are like this; only a small minority actually invents meta-game imaginary hokus pokus.

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    SeriouslyNow

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    #28  Edited By SeriouslyNow

    This is definitely the blog of a milk drinker.

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    Seppli

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    #29  Edited By Seppli

    @Storms:

    I'm much too egocentric to be much of a roleplayer in your sense of the word. Like I said, my idea of roleplaying is about taking the world I interact with more seriously and not about inventing a persona and walking in its shoes. I simply have no interest in being somebody else but me in classic WRPGs. Typically - games with deep RPG mechanics become about 'my rise to power and heroism'. When I'm handed a character like Batman and Drake, I actually do care about what I believe these characters would do. Rather than doing what I would do, I'll do 'what Batman would do'. Ironically again, I'm more of roleplayer in games that aren't labeled roleplaying games.

    Just recently played Space Marine. It's an amazing 'Space Marine simulator'. In that game too, I try to develop a mindset of an Ultramarine Captain and fight like an Ultramarine would. Standing my ground. Every shot well measured. Thinning the foes ranks with the right tool and stone cold precision - methodically and with a plan. Until the flood of foes eventually reaches me. Then unleasing the fury. Start swinging until nothing moves anymore and I'm covered in Orc guts. I like becoming Titus, the cold as stone Space Marine Captain. Or Batman. Or Drake.

    Maybe I should go beyond deciding upon a playstyle/archetype and stop asking 'What would I do in this world and situation?' and try out the pure escapism of making up a persona completely foreign to my own. Could be I'd enjoy that. Food for thought for sure.

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    Seppli

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    #30  Edited By Seppli

    @SeriouslyNow said:

    This is definitely the blog of a milk drinker.

    I am indeed no drunk. Whorehouses make booze obsolete.

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    Storms

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    #31  Edited By Storms
    @Seppli: You're right, crafting is broken in a sense. As this excellent article points out, there should be dev-created limits on crafting to make the game feel more real. He then goes on to point out that, regardless, roleplaying does fix the situation. If you wouldn't sit there all day making leather bracers, don't do it. Taking advantage of the freedom Bethesda gave us by exploiting is more meta-gaming than roleplaying is, because you're only taking into account knowledge that you have outside of the game world. The same guy also gives us great roleplaying pointers in another article.
      

    Don't try to squeeze every last point out of your character. Doing so may squeeze the joy right out of playing. 

    Avoid the temptation to 'peak under the hood' every time you have to make a decision about your character's progression and just enjoy the game.

    I consider myself a serious role-player. I get very involved in my characters and follow most of the suggestions that I've listed in this page. But I won't do something just because someone else thinks it's 'more realistic'. Food and sleep requirements? Sure. Dead is Dead? That just seems like overkill to me. Whatever you do, do what you love and Skyrim will reward you for it.


    You already go farther as Titus, a Space Marine, Batman or Drake than I was even suggesting. You don't even have to create a persona that's foreign to yours -- go ahead, make a character that's not you, but similar to you. Give him a name that's a twist on yours, or on a name you use on the internet, but fits in Tamriel. Follow whichever rules seem most enjoyable to you and experience Skyrim as a roleplaying game -- whatever makes it feel the "realest". After you're done with Amalur, I suspect. Loving that game, myself. 
     
    You also could jump right to creating a completely foreign character, if you suddenly get a notion that you're certain you'll enjoy that. As I've seen other people around me get into roleplaying, they seem to enjoy slowly easing into it with a character that's a version of them, though.
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    #32  Edited By AhmadMetallic
    @Seppli said:

    I revisited Skyrim today. After a 2 month hiatus. I thought the diminishing returns would have cooled down by now.

    I'm 100+ hours into my playthrough, did most of the faction and main settlement storylines except for the Rebellion, also did tonnes of sidequests - yet I feel like I need to finish the main quest before I can file Skyrim conclusively under 'Done with it'.

    Since the 80 hours mark, I feel like I've seen and done it all, even though I obviously haven't. I grew tired of sneaky archery, so I went for in-your-face dualwielding one-handed weapons, then to sneaky daggers, then to destruction magic (oh how horribly broken magic scales with level ups)

    This is so absurd.. The fact that we've reached a point in the gaming culture where you'd burn out on an RPG/take a hiatus from it 1 month after its release, an RPG that offers you hundreds of hours of exploration and questing and leveling up tens of skills and spending even more perk points on those skill trees, is so absurd. 
     
    With all due respect, what is wrong with you? And anyone who's in your condition for that matter? Just play the game slowly and enjoy it, let the playthrough last on the span of several months, let 6 months go by as you visit Skyrim as well as playing other games before you decide you're 'done with it', what is this freakishly hyper need you have to be DONE WITH SKYRIM in a matter of months?
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    #33  Edited By Seppli
    @AhmadMetallic
     
    At some point the experiences a game offers become mechanically redundant. Repetitive. Like 60-80 hours in, Skyrim reaches that point. Done everything that game does mechanically - out the wazoo. If you indulge in crafting and minmaxing too much, you'll have become increasingly overpowered and eventually gamebreakingly so. A broken game, no matter how good, does hemorrhage motivation until it eventually dies. Without self-imposed limitations, Skyrim does break extremely easily. One way or the other.  100+ hours of non-dynamic gameplay is enough for me, regardless if a game is broken or not. This ain't competitive multiplayer after all.
     

    @Storms: 

     
    Indeed. Actively avoiding broken elements and restraining myself from taking minmaxing too far should be beneficial to such games. I'll likely follow Hollander Cooper's advice from his GamesRadar SuperReview and NOT craft at all, at least I won't blacksmith and sagecraft until I'm mostly done with the game. Keeping my equipment all about treasure chests and loot drops and gear vendors - Items less powerful and certainly no way as exploitatively put together as I would minmax my crafted gear. Jeff pretty much broke his late game experience by stacking HP-regeneration on his crafted creations. I think avoiding crafting for the largest parts should help alleviate many issues.
     
    Sure, I do roleplay and I'll try and be more serious about it. It just never came to my mind not to strife for maximizing my in-game powers. To limit what I do to fit the character I play and to safeguard the integrity of a game's balance.
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    jetsetwillie

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    #34  Edited By jetsetwillie

    @Seppli said:

    @AhmadMetallic:

    At some point the experiences a game offers become mechanically redundant. Repetitive. Like 60-80 hours in, Skyrim reaches that point. Done everything that game does mechanically - out the wazoo. If you indulge in crafting and minmaxing too much, you'll have become increasingly overpowered and eventually gamebreakingly so. A broken game, no matter how good, does hemorrhage motivation until it eventually dies. Without self-imposed limitations, Skyrim does break extremely easily. One way or the other. 100+ hours of non-dynamic gameplay is enough for me, regardless if a game is broken or not. This ain't competitive multiplayer after all.

    @Storms:


    Indeed. Actively avoiding broken elements and restraining myself from taking minmaxing too far should be beneficial to such games. I'll likely follow Hollander Cooper's advice from his GamesRadar SuperReview and NOT craft at all, at least I won't blacksmith and sagecraft until I'm mostly done with the game. Keeping my equipment all about treasure chests and loot drops and gear vendors - Items less powerful and certainly no way as exploitatively put together as I would minmax my crafted gear. Jeff pretty much broke his late game experience by stacking HP-regeneration on his crafted creations. I think avoiding crafting for the largest parts should help alleviate many issues. Sure, I do roleplay and I'll try and be more serious about it. It just never came to my mind not to strife for maximizing my in-game powers. To limit what I do to fit the character I play and to safeguard the integrity of a game's balance.

    you would make an AMAZING game designer. your ability to find fault and criticize is fantastic. just think how great your games would be.

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    #35  Edited By Seppli
    @jetsetwillie
     
    Color coding gems and gem slots should be a valid measure to prevent too exploitative crafts. A post launch balancing patch reducing efficacy of HP-regeneration gems from +2HP/sec to +1HP/sec or whatever other ratio should help too.
     
    I hope we'll get some post-launch support other than pay DLC and bug-fix patches. An additional 'hardcore' difficulty setting would be amazing. Including some more decisive balancing, like introducing a 30sec cooldown on consumables and nerfing Reckoning mode and such. Seeing how lack of challenge is one of the most prominent complaints, that'd be a big huge gesture. That reminds me... I should play Batman : Arkham City's NG+ one of these days. It sounds positively amazing.
     
    From what I can tell, KoA:R's gamedesign is lacking restrictions, that's partly core concept and partly oversight. Allowing players to do whatever is cool, until it takes away from the experience. Like having +30 HP/s regeneration going. Very similar to the crafting-related woes Skyrim suffers from.
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    SeriouslyNow

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    #36  Edited By SeriouslyNow
    @jetsetwillie said:

    @Seppli said:

    @AhmadMetallic:

    At some point the experiences a game offers become mechanically redundant. Repetitive. Like 60-80 hours in, Skyrim reaches that point. Done everything that game does mechanically - out the wazoo. If you indulge in crafting and minmaxing too much, you'll have become increasingly overpowered and eventually gamebreakingly so. A broken game, no matter how good, does hemorrhage motivation until it eventually dies. Without self-imposed limitations, Skyrim does break extremely easily. One way or the other. 100+ hours of non-dynamic gameplay is enough for me, regardless if a game is broken or not. This ain't competitive multiplayer after all.

    @Storms:


    Indeed. Actively avoiding broken elements and restraining myself from taking minmaxing too far should be beneficial to such games. I'll likely follow Hollander Cooper's advice from his GamesRadar SuperReview and NOT craft at all, at least I won't blacksmith and sagecraft until I'm mostly done with the game. Keeping my equipment all about treasure chests and loot drops and gear vendors - Items less powerful and certainly no way as exploitatively put together as I would minmax my crafted gear. Jeff pretty much broke his late game experience by stacking HP-regeneration on his crafted creations. I think avoiding crafting for the largest parts should help alleviate many issues. Sure, I do roleplay and I'll try and be more serious about it. It just never came to my mind not to strife for maximizing my in-game powers. To limit what I do to fit the character I play and to safeguard the integrity of a game's balance.

    you would make an AMAZING game designer. your ability to find fault and criticize is fantastic. just think how great your games would be.

    +1 
     
    Seppli man, calm the firetruck down son.
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    mfpantst

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    #37  Edited By mfpantst

    Well, now that I have the high res texture pack, I'll play this game again.

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    #38  Edited By RIDEBIRD

    I really want to explore more of the world, but I just can't get over how shit the combat actually is. So tired of that. It's not enough to sort of skip it by playing on easy, it just annoys me every time I have to deal with how bad it is.

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    #39  Edited By Deranged

    @Seppli: Kudos to anyone who put 80+ hours in this game. I barely put in 25 and I was bored to death without even touching the main quest...

    Guess you gotta just wait for DLC.

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    #40  Edited By Seppli
    @mfpantst said:
    Well, now that I have the high res texture pack, I'll play this game again.
    Indeed. Thanks for reminding me. Might even be able to finish up my mainquest after all.
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    #41  Edited By jetsetwillie

    @Ertard said:

    I really want to explore more of the world, but I just can't get over how shit the combat actually is. So tired of that. It's not enough to sort of skip it by playing on easy, it just annoys me every time I have to deal with how bad it is.

    i played as a mage with archery and found the combat great fun. i think you're exaggerating

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    #42  Edited By RIDEBIRD

    @jetsetwillie: Archery is soooooooo boring. I've been mainly sneaking and that sucks. I then switched to dual wielding and that is even more boring. Thinking of starting a orc berserker on expert and play halfnude with a huge axe or something, might be a bit more fun.

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    #43  Edited By Seppli
    @jetsetwillie said:

    @Ertard said:

    I really want to explore more of the world, but I just can't get over how shit the combat actually is. So tired of that. It's not enough to sort of skip it by playing on easy, it just annoys me every time I have to deal with how bad it is.

    i played as a mage with archery and found the combat great fun. i think you're exaggerating

    Archery is the most fun I had with Skyrim's combat. Very satisfying. Especially against humanoids. Nothing like placing an arrow right in the left eyesocket sending the ragdoll flying. It's getting pretty powerful quickly though and way overpowered at higher levels, espeically in combination with crafted gear. I can shoot only that many NPCs in the face, before even Archery loses its luster. For me, it was carrying my combat experience for about 60 hours. Filled with pure joy.
     
    Most of my issues with Skyrim's combat comes from uneven scaling. Whilst melee and especially archery scale extremely well to the point of breaking the game, much of which comes from the easily exploited and abused crafting mechanics, destruction magic gets weaker by the level to the point of barely being viable anymore. At higher levels combat options are either gamebreakingly overpowered or sleep inducingly underpowered to the point where you have to rely on companions and summons to do the bulk of damage. Bethesda nailed much of its open world RPG-building template better than ever before, combat and especially difficulty scaling is not one of these things though. 
     
    I for one am a big proponent of lock-on systems for first person melee combat, which should make designing deep and fun offensive and defensive mechanics so much more easy. That and better levelscaling and more sensibly restricted crafting could make for an infinitely more enjoyable combat experience.
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    #44  Edited By RIDEBIRD

    @Seppli: I have been archin' mainly for 70 hours tho. It lost it's luster 10 hours ago and melee is horrendous. I never like magic in games really and here I can't really see the point. I too have abused like everything and everything I wear/use is upgraded to the max. I have enjoyed some 1h+shield combat however. Gives a little bit more of a dynamic touch.

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    #45  Edited By jetsetwillie

    @Ertard said:

    @jetsetwillie: Archery is soooooooo boring. I've been mainly sneaking and that sucks. I then switched to dual wielding and that is even more boring. Thinking of starting a orc berserker on expert and play halfnude with a huge axe or something, might be a bit more fun.

    i did/don't find archery boring at all.

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    #46  Edited By Seppli

    Anybody else surprised that Bethesda didn't translate VATS for Skyrim? A deep melee-centric VATS could have been amazing. I can scarecly imagine how cool it could be with strategic dismemberment and a Monthy Python-esque 'It's just a flesh wound' mentality. 
     
      

    I recently dreamt-up some turnbased combat mechanics of matching and guessing actions the best you can. Like every encounter gets split into rounds. Depending on Initiative, the player characters and the NPCs each have 5+ actions to queue up every round. Depending on Combat Experience, the player learns to openly read more of the actions NPCs are going to make in that round. With his own list of offensive and defensive manouvers, the player has to mix and match his and his groups actions against the NPCs. Decide between singletarget and group attacks and defensive manouvers with specific action point costs translating into effect durations or move wind-ups. If NPCs or player characters have more actions points than the other, the excess in actions are frontloaded and go unopposed.
     
    I like that core concept a lot. It's kinda reminiscent of the Grandia series, just way less linear. I'd love something like that in a WRPG. Presenting the action from the much more involved first person VATS perspective - leading to some rewardingly gorey slow-mo cinematic payoffs.
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    #47  Edited By Rohok

    You got more than 100 hours into the game and you're claiming there's nothing more to do and it's stale?

    Dude, most people barely get 20 hours into any given video game before everything is seen and done. I maxed out SR3 in 40 hours, 100% completion.

    Sounds like you got your money worth out of Skyrim and it's time to move on. A dollar per hour, and you've more than paid for Skyrim in both time and enjoyment. What is there to complain about?

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    #48  Edited By mfpantst
    @Seppli: Exactly.  I don't know when I'll exactly find the time, but sometime soon!
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    #49  Edited By Storms
    @Rohok said:

    You got more than 100 hours into the game and you're claiming there's nothing more to do and it's stale?

    Dude, most people barely get 20 hours into any given video game before everything is seen and done. I maxed out SR3 in 40 hours, 100% completion.

    Sounds like you got your money worth out of Skyrim and it's time to move on. A dollar per hour, and you've more than paid for Skyrim in both time and enjoyment. What is there to complain about?

    I think the problem is people like me, who waited for this game for years and made our excitement very public and loud. "I can't wait to sink thousands of hours into Skyrim!". 
     
    And then, a steady stream of 10/10 and GotYs. People like me, who just love to experience games, were more than satisfied -- and I am certainly on my way to thousands of hours.
     
    But, Seppli's not that kind of person. He looks more at exterior, technological aspects of games, whereas people like me just play the game without looking at it from a developers' eye (I'm like this with movies, always thinking about what's going on behind the scenes). So people like me kind of ruined it for him by making it seem like everyone could get thousands of hours out of it without going "wait, the combat works like this and the crafting works like this".

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