But this is the exact distinction people are making which I think you're not getting. I would agree that it would be bad if the game felt broken, but for the most part (excepting for the one part which I described above) I never felt like I was fighting broken AI, I felt like I was trying to work with an animal that had some degree of independence, didn't always want to do what I needed and didn't always understand perfectly.

That's not 'hand waving' - it was very clear to me in that one major example when it stopped being what the game was supposed to be, and started being the game not working as intended.

I will agree that people's mileage will vary with this - that much seems obvious from the discussion around the game, but I absolutely don't think that this is about people hand-waving away issues, they're just picking up what the game is putting down, and enjoying the slower pace and greater degree of patience that this style of play forces.

I've seen a couple of YouTube plays of the opening stretches of the game, now, and the ones that like it the most always seem to be the ones that understand that Trico is designed not to give instant feedback to everything that happens around him. Perfect example of that, there's an early bit of the game where the player has to try to coax Trico into some water using a barrel, and I saw one video where the player chucked the barrel in the water, and because Trico didn't immediately jump in the water after it, turned around to get another barrel, and then complained that they missed the big dive. Because the animators took the time to show Trico spot the barrel, back up a little as if to reconsider, go back and forth a few times as if psyching up to do it, and then finally going for it.

Sure, that's not a part about directly commanding Trico, but it's similar in that it's not going to play well with people who don't understand that taking time, being patient is part of the game, by design. This seemed very clear to me, by the end, and if that's not for you, cool! But we're not just making excuses, either.

@kestrelpi: I agree about the making excuses thing.

I'm not making an excuse, because to me, the AI wasn't broken. To me, it seemed to be working as intended except for one area in the water. I will say I thought the AI was working as intended 95% of the time. That's not hand waving issues. I barely saw issues. If you think they're issues, that's cool and you can think that. But unless we literally study the game's code, I don't think we'll know.

It's not BS. I genuinely thought Trico was programmed to be this way.

@frostyryan: @kestrelpi: I don't think you two are, but there are people that seem to be illegitimizing the experience of players that have troubled playthroughs by chalking it up to "oh, you just aren't understanding that Trico is a simulated animal" instead of acknowledging that some people actually are having issues.

Anyway, I'm not sure how else to try to get my perspective across because I think we're talking about two different things. I'm not talking about telling Trico to go left and he goes right. I didn't have a problem with Trico's supposed independence; whether they were successful in that depiction is a different conversation. Out of the many problems I had, the Trico related ones were from what felt like broken scripting; whether or not it was actually broken doesn't matter because it felt broken nonetheless. One of those moments was the not-eating issue I mentioned in a previous post; the second was Trico's tail not falling through a hole; and the last which I also touched on in a previous post was Trico not diving or the dive wouldn't work — after 10 minutes I restarted at a checkpoint and Trico was immediately successful.

Might be goty for me. I was dead sure it would be the witness, but now I'm really not sure. I'd say it's an actual miracle how well it turned out, given it's extremely strained development and the number of flaws it has. It's a testament to the the perseverance and artistry of the developers.

This game is not something I'd usually give a try. But between the words here and what I saw with the QL, I am definitely in.

Some of the best notice went to the poster who said the launch PS4 handles it well enough. That was my main fear, besides playing a game that is a bit different for me.

And I have 2 cats that have taught me well....

This is one of those times that I get completely baffled by how much some people like this game. Same thing happened with Deadly Premonition.

Maybe it just comes down to how much shitty controls aggravates you? Terrible controls ruin a game for me. It's not just commanding Trico either. The platforming/controls for the boy all felt terrible to me.

Either way makes for a shitty experience, at least for me.

Actually, the two extra examples you mention are ones I experienced myself. But the first one is more of a physics issue than an AI issue, no? I found that just waiting a bit was enough to fix it, but also calling Trico to various spots would have also fixed it. But sure - that part relied on some wonky physics.

And I had the exact same problem with that other bit that you described which DID feel more like an AI issue, but I don't recall anything else in the game even remotely like it. And it seems to be the one part of the game people are calling out over and over, which suggests to me it's more of an issue specific to that situation.

To be exhaustive, there was one other bit where I really struggled to get Trico to go up the wall I wanted for about 10 minutes, but that one struck me as be more of a level design issue - it was a tight area with lots of walls and it was going to be difficult to convey exactly what I needed to happen even if the AI was 100% responsive. Most of the rest of the level design is much less ambiguous and I had a lot more success directing Trico with a degree of precision without it feeling too much like a well-trained dog, which I think would have been the wrong way to go.

I can't say I agree. Between the frame rate, controls and dealing with Trico this game might be the worst game I've finished this generation. I honestly have no idea how anyone could enjoy this game.

Everything the game is trying to do is betrayed by the games technical issues. Anytime I think the environment is beautiful I pane the camera and the horrid frame rate rears it's ugly head. Anytime I'm bonding with Trico his AI bugs out.

And I honestly think if any other game had the technical issues and subpar controls this game has it'd get destroyed.

OK, I finally picked this up yesterday. SotC is one of my favorite games ever, and I love the look and feel of Ico, even if I don't love the gameplay quite as much. I'm also a lifelong animal lover, for what it's worth.

I was a little skeptical about this game for years given that it's centered so heavily around Trico. However, I found myself completely blown away from almost the very beginning. First of all, I think Trico's animations and behavior are pretty astonishing; he (she?) does so many subtle little things that a dog or a cat would, from approaching new situations to just how he looks around and interacts with the environment and with you. It's far and away the most convincing digital depiction of a wild animal that I've ever seen. Whoever was working on Trico's animations put a ton of love into it. Your interactions and early relationship with Trico really struck a chord in me; I actually feel like I have a "relationship" with him when I'm playing, which is not something I was expecting the game to be able to deliver on at all.

The puzzles have been more or less what I expected so far, which is to say I'm enjoying them well enough but they're sort of secondary on the list of reasons that I enjoy Ueda games. The real draw for me is always the atmosphere, audiovisual direction, and exploration, and this game so far has been right up there alongside Ico and SotC in those regards. On the downside, the camera and controls are still a little sluggish and finicky, just like Ico and SotC. The camera feels like it has too much spin-up time, and increasing the turn speed didn't really feel right either. I haven't had any issues with making Trico do what I want yet, but my perspective has been very much "how do I encourage him to do what I want" as opposed to "why won't he do what I want" so I haven't gotten frustrated. I also haven't any encountered any obviously broken scripting or buggy behavior, but maybe that'll all change when things get hectic later on.

Basically, the part of the game that I was most unsure about (Trico) has really surpassed my expectations so far. No idea if my opinion will change as I continue through the game, but unless it takes a real sharp turn somewhere, I can't imagine my feelings landing anywhere below "great" in the end.

Litteraly less than a week ago you posted this response to someone who thought that The Last of Us sucked

Maybe take your own (decent at the time) advice?

Yes, I adore it.

I can't gloss over the technical issues because that would be unfair. The archaic controls, broken camera, and sketchy frame rate all made for some frustrating times during my playthrough. But I can overlook all that for one simple reason: there really isn't much else like this game. It uses it's world and it's characters to show you a story rather than telling it to you through dialogue and text, meaning you never get bogged down in the details that simply don't matter. It puts you in the shoes of a character who is incredibly vulnerable and reliant on a partner, and as a result the combat and the platforming feel intense and rewarding. It's minimalist design, both diegetic and non-diegetic, helps to break down narrative and gameplay barriers that might otherwise just get in the way of the experience (e.g. no map, no minimap, no inventory, no stats. Just you and Trico).

It's unique, it's focused, it's beautiful, and it fostered a genuine emotional connection between me and those two characters, which is something that doesn't happen to me very often with games.

Box quote of the year.

@kestrelpi: No, I was specifically referring to one of the areas where Trico won't respond until being fed. So if the conceit is that Trico is hungry then Trico ignoring the barrel is the game betraying its own fiction. That just really bothered me.

Feeding in general, there were only two moments I found irksome. One where I was in a creek and every time I set the barrel down Trico would swat it; thinking the running water may be causing this reaction, I threw it at him and he caught it in the air. The other time was when Trico was laying down and if I got too close to his mouth, the boy would freak out and drop the barrel.

It sounds like some of the issues you experienced aren't disimilar from my own. I guess I just had a more visceral reaction for some reason.

@razzuel: I think probably it's more that they amounted to about 30 minutes of minor annoyances in what was a decently long game so I proportionally just am not that bothered by it. The vast, vast majority of the game was things working exactly as intended, and seemed very believable, which is pretty good going for a game in which an AI companion accompanies you for almost the full duration. I get what you mean about the feeding parts (although I think you misunderstood - I was referring to the tail thing when I was talking about physics) but... didn't happen to me, and if it did I don't think I'd have cared that much to be honest.

@cornfed40: fair point.