Breath of the Wild could use one hugely useful tweak

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#1 Posted by Lv4Monk (399 posts) -

Hold A to swap ground weapon with currently equipped weapon. Instant improvement to inventory management as well as an added strategic element against otherwise forgettable "trash" enemies. Encourages use of a wider range of weapons while making cannon fodder more interesting.

Just some thoughts while playing through the early hours. Damn this game is fun.

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#2 Edited by MrBGone (41 posts) -

You can equip the weapon you don't want and throw it with away, pick up the one you want.

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#3 Edited by Lv4Monk (399 posts) -

@mrbgone said:

You can equip the weapon you don't want and throw it with away, pick up the one you want.

Unfortunately that drains some of the weapons durability. Swapping weapons quickly to later swap back is something you'd mostly do with higher quality weapons that you wanna keep longer term.

Also that wouldn't help with non-weapon equipment.

Also Also it's slow and risks throwing the weapon off a cliff or something.

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#4 Edited by BigSocrates (1411 posts) -

I thought this was going to say keep a recipe book of everything you've cooked and be able to cook multiple batches simultaneously.

Truth is that as good as Zelda is there is a bunch oF antiquated jank in the interface.

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#5 Edited by Lv4Monk (399 posts) -

Swapping Sprint and ability activation (B button and L trigger) as well as using L trigger to "place" activated abilities (whatever bombs and junk were called) would also be nice. Being able to more freely rotate the camera while sprinting or to move while aiming and activating abilities would be my other, admittedly less important, request.

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#6 Posted by MrBGone (41 posts) -

@lv4monk: Sorry, misunderstood, thought you meant to just switch out the weapon, I agree with you.

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#7 Posted by afabs515 (1737 posts) -
@lv4monk said:

Swapping Sprint and ability activation (B button and L trigger) as well as using L trigger to "place" activated abilities (whatever bombs and junk were called) would also be nice. Being able to more freely rotate the camera while sprinting or to move while aiming and activating abilities would be my other, admittedly less important, request.

I would go a step further and say that this game should let you map the buttons how you want to map them. I've been playing for roughly 7 hours and for some reasons I still can't get used to the controls. Even worse, for some reason (maybe because it's a Zelda game so that stuff is carved into my brain), I WANT to push other buttons to accomplish certain things. The amount of times I've pressed 'B', which is located where 'A' is on the Xbox controller, to drop a bomb and have been confused when nothing happens is insane.

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#8 Edited by Lv4Monk (399 posts) -

@mrbgone said:

@lv4monk: Sorry, misunderstood, thought you meant to just switch out the weapon, I agree with you.

Yeah, should've been clearer I meant temp swapping to a crappy weapon and then swapping back to maintain durability (on top of general inventory management). As it is the process takes long enough that I just take the hit to my current worst weapon.

Or better yet, spam bombs on recharge and/or run away.

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#9 Posted by AcidPops91 (81 posts) -

it could use some aliasing.

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#10 Posted by pompouspizza (1223 posts) -
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#11 Posted by Y2Ken (2587 posts) -

@afabs515 said:

I would go a step further and say that this game should let you map the buttons how you want to map them. I've been playing for roughly 7 hours and for some reasons I still can't get used to the controls. Even worse, for some reason (maybe because it's a Zelda game so that stuff is carved into my brain), I WANT to push other buttons to accomplish certain things. The amount of times I've pressed 'B', which is located where 'A' is on the Xbox controller, to drop a bomb and have been confused when nothing happens is insane.

I wish all games just let you remap controls however you want to, honestly; I'd struggle to think of many examples where there's a strong reason not to allow full remapping if players want to use it. Plus it also offers more accessibility for people who have trouble using certain buttons or control schemes, or who need to map controls to a custom controller.

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#12 Edited by kcin (804 posts) -

Item management in this game is very difficult. I absolutely adore this game, and I'm comfortable adjusting, but three factors play into what makes it so difficult to manage items:

1.) Microsoft insisting on switching the positions of X & Y and B & A on the XBOX controller from the standards Nintendo set with the SNES,

2.) Nintendo insisting on doing what it thinks is right with WHERE to map actions, in spite of existing conventions (the selection button [A] on the right of the button map; jump/dodge at the top of the button map), plus its placement of the - and + buttons directly ABOVE the joysticks,

3.) and the shared use of the weapon swap buttons on the directional pad, forcing you to try to equip the bow/sword before being allowed to access the swap functions for those weapon sets.

I've played for probably 20 hours and I still, in the middle of a fight, will have to spend a second or two remembering "where is that button I need to press?" It actively hinders my capabilities. I'm patient, and I'm thankful I can pause to heal, but it's definitely hard. This is just an issue of game developers choosing to ignore conventions on both sides, though; if it weren't for Microsoft saying "X & Y go the other way," half of this would be a non-issue.

Also, for fuck's sake just let me drop shields and bows from the selection menu

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#13 Edited by ripelivejam (10898 posts) -

can't wait for the revised 2018 model Breath of the Wild Lite

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#14 Posted by Fredchuckdave (10205 posts) -

This is the best game ever made, all tweak discussions are sacrilege.

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#15 Posted by Belegorm (1751 posts) -

@kcin: There is the other part of that where the Xbox practically didn't exist in Japan, and on all the Playstation controllers, the circle button is the confirm button (in the same position as the A button on a SNES controller), and the X button is the cancel button (in the same position as the B button on a SNES controller).

The reality is no matter what they do, the only way everyone will be satisfied is if they let you remap to whatever you want. As they're developing this in Japan I would think they look at it more from a Japanese point of view.

Sometimes when a game swaps buttons for a Western release it makes things worse. Like in Dark Souls, using circle to run and jump works fine, but maaaaan would using the X button feel way more natural to me (having played lots of SNES JRPG's where the B button was run).

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#16 Posted by kcin (804 posts) -

@belegorm said:

@kcin:

The reality is no matter what they do, the only way everyone will be satisfied is if they let you remap to whatever you want.

Fair enough, yeah. Any time a developer tries to impose their vision of how you 'should' play their game, it invariably raises the hackles of a few players, and I suppose this is no exception to that rule.

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#17 Posted by ThePanzini (397 posts) -

@kcin: Sega always used A+B left to right with Mega Drive, Saturn and Dreamcast with X, Y too, Sony and Microsoft followed suit. Changing bow is an absolute pain BoTW it was clearly design for a touch pad you can't even cycle weapons tapping left or right either boggles the mind, I would rebind all the keys if I could.

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#18 Posted by Grimluck343 (1371 posts) -

Still wouldn't solve the issue of having a full inventory when you open a chest, which in my opinion is much worse.

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#19 Posted by Shirogane (3629 posts) -

@kcin: Sega always used A+B left to right with Mega Drive, Saturn and Dreamcast with X, Y too, Sony and Microsoft followed suit. Changing bow is an absolute pain BoTW it was clearly design for a touch pad you can't even cycle weapons tapping left or right either boggles the mind, I would rebind all the keys if I could.

The funny part about this is, not even the Wii U version uses the gamepad. The ONLY thing it does is let you switch whether you're playing on the tv or the gamepad, basically making it a pseudo Switch. Kinda weird.

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#20 Posted by LeStephan (778 posts) -

I would love to use the gamepad as map or inventory on wiiU..... Damn you, Nintendo Switch!

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#21 Posted by probablytuna (4917 posts) -

Also, quick item selection should have a button to let you drop any and all weapons/bows/shields you are currently holding. This mitigates the time it takes to open up the inventory, go to the relevant section to drop items.

Also, remap the sprint button for mounts so that sprinting on a horse is the same as sprinting on foot. It is fucking dumb that you're conditioned to holding "B" to sprint on foot but when on horseback "B" is to dismount. Make "A" mount and dismount!

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#22 Posted by IBurningStar (2273 posts) -

I have several small complaints with the game, but the absolute number one is the terrible button mapping and the fact that I can't change them. I mean, they let me swap run and jump, but that still leaves me having to awkwardly reposition my entire hand if I want to sprint and jump. The controls are fucking clunky. Menus are really cumbersome to try to quickly move through, too.

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#23 Edited by Efesell (2343 posts) -

I feel like I've learned to do everything in this game efficiently with the provided controls except for Sprinting and Jumping and I'm glad for that. My hands know better than to get used to X and B for that, I'm proud of them.

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#24 Edited by RalphMoustaccio (180 posts) -

@kcin said:

1.) Microsoft insisting on switching the positions of X & Y and B & A on the XBOX controller from the standards Nintendo set with the SNES,

if it weren't for Microsoft saying "X & Y go the other way," half of this would be a non-issue.

I doubt it's as simple as this. I'm guessing that the specific orientation of the buttons being backwards (to American, not Japanese, readers) was a trademarked design dress, much like the plus-shaped d-pad, which would prevent others from using it without facing litigation. If so, it probably also just recently would have ended, like the d-pad trademark, meaning others could possibly use it. Microsoft, though, would be pretty stupid to change the labeling of their buttons at this point, since theirs has basically now become the commonly-accepted standard.

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#25 Posted by kcin (804 posts) -

@ralphmoustaccio: I figured someone would say "actually it was probably a trademark issue". Well, how did Sony get around that? They didn't insist on using X, Y, B, and A. Microsoft did. They therefore likely had to choose how to reposition them if indeed there was a trademark issue, and so yes, the blame rests at Microsoft's feet.

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#26 Posted by BigSocrates (1411 posts) -

@kcin: THIS IS REVISIONIST HISTORY.

The Sega Dreamcast controller was the same orientation as Xbox, and previous Sega controllers also had the A button to the left. This was a common controller orientation throughout the 80s and 90s. It also makes more sense in the West where we read left to right (which is I think why it was backwards on NES to begin with.)

Microsoft was just continuing an established industry practice, and since the Xbox controller was descended from the Dreamcast controller it just made sense.

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#27 Posted by JasonMasters (233 posts) -

While I am not a huge Zelda franchise fan (I've only played Wind Waker), I would totally play that crap out of this game on a PC. I would love to see what they could so with some more horsepower.

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#28 Edited by kcin (804 posts) -

@bigsocrates: the Dreamcast was barely alive for two years. The SNES, for all intents and purposes, is the origin of the diagonal four-button lettered layout and exceeds the popularity of the Dreamcast by fucking magnitudes. Sure, there are exceptions, but don't tell me with a straight face that Sega is responsible for most game consoles through the years using lettered buttons, specifically in a diagonal layout. "Revisionist history" hahahahah ok

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#29 Posted by RalphMoustaccio (180 posts) -

@kcin: What's your point? Nothing about what you said refutes my contention that it is possibly, if not likely, a trademark issue. I didn't say anything about Microsoft's decision to use those particular letters (which isn't really important), but rather that the order of those letters couldn't simply mirror Nintendo's reverse order, because it would be a trademark violation.

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#30 Edited by kcin (804 posts) -

@ralphmoustaccio: My point is Microsoft didn't need to use letters, period. But they did. And if there was a trademark, they needed to work around it because of arbitrarily limiting themselves to A, B, X, and Y. They could have, instead, chosen any other characters or shapes or numbers or whatever, and most of us wouldn't now be staring at our Switch button prompts and thinking of the Microsoft layout - or, in the case of BigSocrates, the Dreamcast layout. That is my point.

I don't care as much about this as you two. I am done now.

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#31 Edited by RalphMoustaccio (180 posts) -

@kcin: That's fair, but that also wouldn't change the fact that the most logical place for a button to be placed to confirm an action is at the bottom of the diamond orientation of the buttons (which was always the case with PS products in the US, mirrored by Sega and Microsoft on their similarly-positioned buttons). Nintendo is at fault for the confusion by insisting on sticking with the "A" button as confirm, even though it's in an alternative, non-intuitive placement for that action.

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#32 Posted by Superkenon (1658 posts) -

@ralphmoustaccio: I don't think intuitive is the right word to use, because it's just as easy to get used to confirm on the right button as it is the bottom button. They're two, equally-viable standards that just happen to be competing.

Personally I've never been messed up by it. Somehow when I'm switching between Nintendo and Sony platforms, my mind needs no reminder that A is confirm for Nintendo, and X is confirm for PlayStation.

Get a goddamn Xbox controller in my hands though, and I'll press X instead of Y every time.

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#33 Posted by thallium (80 posts) -

it could use some aliasing.

You want it to look more jaggy?

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#34 Edited by RalphMoustaccio (180 posts) -

@superkenon: To me it's intuitive because of how my thumbs rest on a controller with that button arrangement, but I recognize that may be different for others. That Nintendo is the only of the big three to maintain use of the A button for confirming actions, regardless of its placement on the controller, is an issue. In the US, at least, it being on the right on their current controller configuration is confusing, because that button position on competing controllers of similar layout is almost always for cancel, rather than confirm. Even in Zelda when it tells me to push the B button for cancel, I reach for the right not because I don't know or remember that the B button is on the bottom, but rather that cancel is the right button. Muscle-memory is a bitch.

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#35 Edited by Retris (268 posts) -

It's strange. For me I can adjust to different A and B placements but I'll never get used to Nintendo's X and Y placement. I will never get why Nintendo arbitrarily tried to change a convention that has been going for hundreds upon hundreds of years. Y is vertical, X is horizontal, everyone knows that (except for Nintendo apparently).

My biggest problem with Zelda's controls have been the shoulder buttons. I've been playing on the Wii U pad and I'd much prefer to use the shoulder buttons for targeting and aiming a bow. Using the Z triggers just feels clumsy to me.

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