I enjoyed the episode heartily, but I am having big problems with any sort of emotional attachment to the other characters except for Kenny, and that's really just because of nostalgia for the first season. There are almost no meaningful conversations between the characters, certainly nothing that would foster any sort of relationship, or even much of an interpersonal dynamic between myself and them.

Maybe that's the point and we're not supposed to get to know them (how can you trust someone you don't know?), but the corollary to that is that I just don't really care what happens to them. When Carlos died, I just thought "Oh well, there goes another NPC with whom I had practically zero meaningful interactions". Season 1 was infinitely better at getting me to care about the others in the group. Also, a lot of the "Clem does the hard job" scenarios felt really contrived. Even last episode, when they had her turn off the wind turbine - that just felt stupid that she had to do it.

I did enjoy this episode a lot, but I felt more like a viewer than a participant. I feel like I don't have much to do with what's happening, and I'm as heck not feeling much emotional attachment to the NPCs. This episode felt as tight as a drum and I was on edge through all of it. There were some viscerally uncomfortable scenes and there was some incredible writing, but I just can't shake the notion that by this point in the first season, I was WAY more invested in all of the characters than I am in this season. It helped that episode 3 was basically all about character development, and the characters in that season (and specifically, Lee's relationships with them) were WAY more fleshed out than they are between Clem and the others in season 2.

@killerfly: You're not crazy. ;) She was in 400 Days.

Is it just me, or does Sarah seem to be a bit special needs? Doesn't her dad allude to this early on in the first episode?

Yeah that's pretty accurate. Reggie is always going to die, Kenny will get beat down no matter what, any optional surviving characters are going to contribute nothing save 2 lines of dialogue, etc and it was really obvious and somewhat annoying in this episode. But i've learned just to enjoy TWD for the journey rather than the destination. Everything is going to play out the same, but the game lets you create your own little narrative within its predetermined story. From reading through these threads people always rationalise their choices in interesting and different ways, someone might have chosen all of the same dialogue choices as mself but because of different reasons. I think it's really interesting and that personal experience is why I don't mind looking past some of the very obvious flaws in this season.

Reggie dying and Kenny getting beaten to shit are not good examples of a lack of choice. Even if the game wasn't limited to very specific choices in what is still a linear narrative, you still can't control how other characters act. If Carver wants to kill Reggie, he's going to do it. If Kenny wants to take the fall for the walkie-talkie and Carver wants to beat him within an inch of his life, they're going to do those things. The places where this is an issue are scenarios like the one Anwar mentioned, when people start arguing about plans but no matter what side you fall on, there's really only the one way it will play out.

The choices that really matter in these games are the ones that affect your interpersonal relationships. The first season did a good job of this, the scenarios played out mostly the same, the main difference was what characters were around and how they reacted to Lee. This season really wants that dynamic to come out through the tension between the new group of survivors and Kenny, and making the player choose between the two, but is really not doing a good job of it. The story is interesting enough for me to stick through their roller coaster ride though, as long as they let me be the most stone-cold little girl on the planet.

I made clem watch the slaughter, looking away from it doesn't change that you are still permitting it.

I felt my clem couldn't justify telling a group to shoot carver by then walking away when kenny gets rough. carver deserved it and clem handled it like a boss.

cut of the girls arm. she didn't seem too fond of it but it was her ONLY chance of survival. to be honest it was a great feeling. if she survives now she will owe it all to me.

I liked this episode a lot, especially with how brutal it got in places but as others have said, I have a hard time calling it the best so far as well. The tension when you first meet Carver in the last episode was incredibly thick. My hands actually tightened around the controller during that sequence. Whereas here, they did a great job of making you incredibly angry at him for being a cruel dictator but that was totally predictable and it was plainly obvious he was going to get his in the end. Not that the payoff was bad or that I didn't take a sense satisfaction in it (for the record, I chose to have Clementine leave before Kenny beat Carver to death, though it was a tough choice and I did watch the beating on YouTube afterward) but it was not surprising or shocking really. Honestly, I think a bolder move would have been for him to get away in some respect. People would have hated it (though that would obviously have been the point) but I think it would have been surprising and unexpected, especially if it was left unclear as to if you'd see him again and when.

The Sarita bit kind of surprised me but I thought they'd do something different with her, otherwise she would just be another emotionally ruined weight around the group's neck in future episodes (not that I'd blame her but still.) I went for her arm as well, simply because in the moment, I thought that was the best chance to save her, slim though it may be. Like Alex, I also feel she was an underused character who hasn't gotten much development and was mostly there to be upset about Kenny which feels like a missed opportunity.

As for Sarah, I'm with Alex. I empathise with the Hell she's been though but it's not been a picnic for everyone else and her endless inability to look out for herself is becoming tiresome (purely from a game play perspective.) I can't imagine the plan is for her to remain this way forever and I think something is going to happen soon that's going to force her to harden up. I'm actually the most anxious to see where they go with her character cause I think she has the most potential development ahead.

Not my favourite episode but definitely one of the better ones. I can't wait for the next.

I honesty hope we get the chance to get some revenge on Bonnie, just because she had a change of heart at the last minute doesn't excuse what she did. As far as I'm concerned, she is just as responsible for everyone's death as Carver.

Also, I thought that scene in Carver's office was great too. During season one, I wouldn't hesitate to cut people loose if they were endangering the group. (Sorry Ben). So when Carver was talking about getting rid of the weak, it felt like a twisted reflection of my own season 1 sins...

I hated this episode. Pretty much everyone is a mean-spirited bickering asshole, and I just don't care about any of them. Spending 2 hours with a bunch of dicks swearing at each other isn't my idea of good times. Coupled with that it had two incidents of violence against children, and two borderline torture-porn incidents, and it came across as being written by a maladjusted teenager with sociopathic tendencies. I had Clem tell them to shoot Carver, which is at least a quick form of justice, but letting someone slowly butcher him? This isn't a dark tale of sorrow and loss and human extinction, it's just vile and childish maliciousness.

The worst crime was that it was dull, in spite of all that. When I finished, I had it pegged as the worst episode in the series. Now I've had a couple of days to let it stew, I've become actively more ill-disposed towards it. If the next episode continues down this path I'll be finishing the series only because I bought the season pass. Watching people I dislike doing sickeningly evil shit while shouting and swearing at each other... how did such a great series turn so shit so quickly?

And fucking Kenny. I couldn't stand that guy in season 1 (one of the greatest games I have ever played), and now he's worse than ever. I actively went against him every step of the way and still I had no way to resist his course of action.

I'm no prude. I love gore and violence and dark tales set in dark times. But goddamn, this was the worst kind of crude and shitty bilge that gives gaming a bad name. Honestly the more I think about this episode, the angrier I get.

I understand why you think that about her, but she more so to me at least comes off as just being sheltered a little bit to much to the point where she hasn't been given the information or tools to fully grasp what is going on or how she should react to it.
So the way I see it is less that she can't grasp/learn/has some sort of mental issue and more that she is way behind on the learning curve of what she should know by now.

My opinion: this was one of the weakest episodes in the entire series. I have many reasons for thinking this.

• Very short. It took me barely an hour to finish.
• Interactions with Carver seemed too predictable. Of course he was going to kill Reggie, of course he was going to play nice with Clem, of course he was going to beat the shit out of Kenny. People talk as though he's a terrific villain. He's serviceable at best due to the fact that you can see everything he's about to do from a mile away.
• Clementine is 11, 12 at most. Why the hell would you give her every important thing to do? I can understand that everyone knows she's capable, but god dammit there's a new badass survivor girl in the group who I would choose over Clem for virtually every job (except the ones contrived to suit Clem because of her size).
• Too many characters that I don't care about. In Season 1, the group was smaller, most of the episodes were longer, and there were more opportunities to just talk to everyone. That way I was horrified when Carly got shot in the face, I freaked out when I had to shoot Duck. Now that Season 2 has arrived at the "time to start killing off characters" point in the plot, I don't care that Alvin is dead, I don't care that Carlos is dead, I don't care that Sarita is bitten. None of those characters matter to me.

Season 1 started with a goal: reach the coast, find a boat, and keep Clem safe while doing it. Season 2 just seems so aimless. So many different threads are going on that I don't get all that attached to any particular one, and the net effect is that I'm not as invested. I hope this changes, though we are more than half way in, so that might not be possible.

Is there anyone else that is assuming that (possible spoilers I guess) Luke got bitten? I didn't really buy his explanations in the episode.

Fantastic episode, though. I was super stoked to see the 400 Days people pop up. I got everyone except the first guy to go to the camp. (The convict guy, I forget his name) I really hope they come back again.

I've never enjoyed the "survivor group finds a shelter community that turns out to be full of corruption and ultimately death" plotlines in this kind of stuff so I'm glad we're moving on from that.

Yup, and Tavia was the woman picking them up at the end.

Edit: I mean she was.

I saw Wyatt (the stoner with long hair from 400 days) in the facility too. I don't feel that bad that Alvin got killed in the last episode of my game if all he was going to live for was to be beaten. At least in my game his death was quick. It hadn't occurred to me that Reggie was in the game to reinforce the idea that people can survive a zombie bite if the attacked limb is quickly removed. It is kind of hard remembering what concepts from the comic have and haven't been introduced into the game yet. So with that knowledge I chopped her arm off straightaway. I had a few moments in this episode where an option I clicked came off as too hostile, or seemed to have been overridden. I may have just missed the timer on the one where I thought I got overridden but I wish there had been a neutral way to tell Sarah to shut up. I wasn't trying to be mean, just trying to save her from that wallop of a slap she got. Looking forward to the next episode.

@patrickklepek : "I was one of the less than 30% of players who killed the zombie instead of chopping Sarita's arm. Interestingly, I was also in the minority of players when it came to watching Carver get fustigated, though that was closer to a 50/50 split."

I guess you just don't have the cojones, Patrick.

On a tangential note, despite the fact that you're in more danger than ever, you will NEVER die from a dialog choice - I assume Carver wouldn't have killed Clementine if he knew it was her all along. It's a case of "narrative armor" or "protagonist armor", meaning that consequences are limited in a way. Sure, your actions can lead to the deaths of others, but you yourself can never end up in a fatal position. What I'm trying to say is, in Season 1 I had Lee kill both children because, as my avatar, he doesn't have a limit on what he can force himself to do, he doesn't get emotionally strained - it's not like going through too much stress would gray out a dialog option. Because of this, it is infinitely easier to take on the hard tasks yourself rather than delegating to other members and risk straining your relationship. For example, I chopped off Sarita's arm because a) it's proven somewhat successful, and b) it seemed like an easy, economical choice.

They should explore this possibility, that prior actions have consequences on future possible actions, in the next Season.

@ch3burashka: You might want to check out who wrote the article.

goddammitshitfuck

I thought Patrick was still doing it.

For me the core of the TellTale's TWD is not how to survive in a world gone to hell, but rather about the battle to retain your humanity when everything around you is doing its best to strip it away. With season 1 Lee's struggles (and every decision you made as him) were always placed within the context of doing the right thing for Clementine. She was the physical manifestation of your humanity. With season 2 Clem has no external representation of this idea and in many regards the premise of the season is the fight for her own soul. The potential paths have been laid out within the characters she has met along the way. Sarah; representative of what Clem would have been had she never met Lee. Luke; good hearted but ultimately handicapped by his own morality. Kenny; strong but driven by his blackened past, and every decision he makes having a direct connection to that history. Then you have Jane, who is also strong and resourceful, but singular and self-sufficient to a fault. She would (will?) prioritise her own well being by leaving the group behind and go it alone should the situation present itself. And at the far extreme, Carver. His humanity is all but lost at this point, believing that the only way to survive this world is to impose control over others by brute force. The conversation between him and Clem in the office makes it clear that his path is one equally valid for her, should she allow that side of her personality to come to the fore. As such my personal decision for Clem to have her stay and watch Kenny destroy Carver was one of pure reaction - to shut that door hard. However, in many respects I regret that decision because of what it means for her in the long run. Clementine is now one step away from becoming the thing she (I) hated in Carver, and her strength has the potential now to actually be her undoing. For me the success of season 2 will stand on how well this balancing act is handled. I already know that the group and Clementine's roll within it will fail and that her world will be (metaphorically and physically) ripped apart - that's just the way things are headed. All I want is for the game to place this before me in a way that I feel ownership over, in the same way that Lee's final decisions felt truly meaningful.

@zolroyce: I thought she was a little special needs as well... I'm pretty sure her dad says so in an earlier episode. Otherwise I wouldn't have been so nice to her this whole time.

A little late to the party, but I just finished it. Alvin died last episode for me, so none of his stuff was in it, but I guess instead Clem was able to find a derringer in the office which I used to shoot Carver in the face with to rescue the others in the warehouse.

I was also hoping for the option to just put Sarah out of her misery there at the end. She was already a broken mess and with her dad gone she's nothing but a liability. My Clem don't have time for that shit and, judging by the preview of next episode, may have an opportunity to just ditch the others and go off with Jane.

Alvin didn't survive episode 2 for me, so it's interesting to hear what happened to him.

I felt like it was a strong episode, though I feel like the now-typical Telltale "grey area" morality that sprang up a little bit didn't actually make sense here. Carver was clearly 100% a bad guy and living with him wasn't safe as he was bound to randomly murder you if you didn't follow his exact idea for what you needed to do at any time. Reggie was trying and still died. So I told them at the end to just shoot him. He'd proven to be such a threat already and would relentlessly hunt us down if he survived, so he needed to die. I definitely didn't stick around to watch Kenny brutalize him though. A shot to the head would've sufficed.

Also, chopping Sarita's arm was the cold, logical thing to do to give her a chance at survival. So I did it, even though it left her horrified. I feel that fits very much with the way Clem is growing and learning in this twisted, broken world.

I don't know where the rest of the season is going in the next two episodes. Carver and his crew seemed to be the constant thread across all the episodes, and now that he's gone...I have no idea what story they're telling anymore apart from basic survival. I don't know what motivations or drive are left. It will be interesting to see where it goes, and hopefully they didn't already blow the big story halfway through.

I agree that if Sarah is the main character in Season 3, I'm not playing. I don't find her fascinating at all, mainly because she's stupid as a brick and won't come out of her "life is magical and fun let's be friends" world.

@heycalvero said:

Late to the party on these articles, but I just finished the season, so I'm commenting anyways!

Man, I thought something similar to you, in that I figured how Clem treats Sarah would be some sort of significant part of the remaining 2 episodes. Boy, was I wrong! Sarah matters for a bit in episode 4 until they unceremoniously kill her off even though it looks like maybe Clem is getting through to Sarah about trying to survive. What a waste of character potential.

It's like they just got lazy and started writing Sarah as if she were Ben from Season 1.

@bisonhero: In the end, she turned out to be a pretty useless character, like most of the characters in the season, sadly.

Goddamn, I still get angry when I think of how the ending played out (or, more specifically, NOT played out).