This is not a blog about how the walking dead sucks, or even how the walking dead is awesome, so you people who want to argue one or the other (you know who you are) should skedaddle.

ANYWAY.

I like the game. I do! i'm not even going to make the argument that it's not a game because if I did I would be a real big hypocrite (I have two visual novels on my list, Cinders and Analogue: A Hate Story, as well as Persona 4 Arena which the reason I liked it was not the fighting part).

I think the reason I am not enamored with it so much is I cry at too many video games already for it to be too effective (GAMES I CRIED AT THIS YEAR: THE WALKING DEAD, DEVIL SURVIVOR 2, PERSONA 4 ARENA, FINAL FANTASY 13-2, I KINDA CRIED AT SLEEPING DOGS, MAYBE BINARY DOMAIN I CAN'T REMEMBER) so it's like, yeah a video game made me cry, big deal (am I over emotional? ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES). and the puzzles and shooting are boring; I'd say gameplay but some people will get all up in my grill about how dialogue choices are gameplay and blah blah blah *virtual raspberry*.

but I digress! even if I thought it was my game of the year (which it is not, Crusader Kings 2 is, because it is the ur game, the game that blends amazing gameplay, amazing self supplied story [think the sims but with more incest] and is more open than any other game wishes it could be), the response would still bum me out. The reason being is that games have been doing the shit that TWD has been doing for a while now, but THIS is the game that has people basically ignoring gameplay to prop up a game because of it's story. I've been triumphing those games for YEARS, and all of the sudden THIS is the game.

Again, I don't want people explaining why they were so enamored with the TWD aside from others because I had a nice chat with @Oldirtybearon who explained it well enough.

So here are games that do what TWD did either almost as well, as well, or better;

GAMES THAT ARE ULTRA DEPRESSING: Nier, Witcher 2, Metro 2033,

GAMES THAT MAKE CHOICE MATTER: Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, Cinders (of course no one knows if that is true or not because the only other person I know who's played it is @ImmortalSaiyan )

GAMES THAT FEATURE A LITTLE GIRL CHARACTER WHOM YOU BECOME PROTECTIVE OF: Persona 4, Nier,

GAMES THAT NO ONE CARED ABOUT; ALL OF THE ABOVE (and these are just the last two years, and yes persona 4 golden counts)

It's just a bummer. Like, I loved all of these games, and the walking dead, but suddenly it's the walking dead that gets all of the praise because it's a hot property and the puzzles aren't factors enough and it has zombies or whatever.

basically what I'm saying is play Nier if you thought the ending to the walking dead wasn't depressing enough

Like, the last three big GOTY titles (Skyrim, ME2/RDR, B:AA and Uncharted 2) all had either good (subjective I know but shut up guy who didn't like ME2's story, it was FINE) both areas or just really good gameplay (skyrim has a shitty story as well as lame side quests and this is not subjective except it is and I am just a big butthead). Suddenly this is the game that has people triumphing the story, and as someone who has been playing games where the story was the main draw for years, it's just... I hope people remember this for next year, I guess? because if this is the only game it happens too I will be way more angry.

Like I get that I am being completely unfair to the walking dead and the accomplishments telltale have accomplished; regardless of what I said I do think the relationship between Lee and Clem is superior to Persona 4 or Nier (those games do other things with the story as well, however). It's just me and my unreasonably large love for Nier, really.

THIS IS A PSA TO TELL YOU TO PLAY NIER

This is not a blog about how the walking dead sucks, or even how the walking dead is awesome, so you people who want to argue one or the other (you know who you are) should skedaddle.

ANYWAY.

I like the game. I do! i'm not even going to make the argument that it's not a game because if I did I would be a real big hypocrite (I have two visual novels on my list, Cinders and Analogue: A Hate Story, as well as Persona 4 Arena which the reason I liked it was not the fighting part).

I think the reason I am not enamored with it so much is I cry at too many video games already for it to be too effective (GAMES I CRIED AT THIS YEAR: THE WALKING DEAD, DEVIL SURVIVOR 2, PERSONA 4 ARENA, FINAL FANTASY 13-2, I KINDA CRIED AT SLEEPING DOGS, MAYBE BINARY DOMAIN I CAN'T REMEMBER) so it's like, yeah a video game made me cry, big deal (am I over emotional? ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES). and the puzzles and shooting are boring; I'd say gameplay but some people will get all up in my grill about how dialogue choices are gameplay and blah blah blah *virtual raspberry*.

but I digress! even if I thought it was my game of the year (which it is not, Crusader Kings 2 is, because it is the ur game, the game that blends amazing gameplay, amazing self supplied story [think the sims but with more incest] and is more open than any other game wishes it could be), the response would still bum me out. The reason being is that games have been doing the shit that TWD has been doing for a while now, but THIS is the game that has people basically ignoring gameplay to prop up a game because of it's story. I've been triumphing those games for YEARS, and all of the sudden THIS is the game.

Again, I don't want people explaining why they were so enamored with the TWD aside from others because I had a nice chat with @Oldirtybearon who explained it well enough.

So here are games that do what TWD did either almost as well, as well, or better;

GAMES THAT ARE ULTRA DEPRESSING: Nier, Witcher 2, Metro 2033,

GAMES THAT MAKE CHOICE MATTER: Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas, Cinders (of course no one knows if that is true or not because the only other person I know who's played it is @ImmortalSaiyan )

GAMES THAT FEATURE A LITTLE GIRL CHARACTER WHOM YOU BECOME PROTECTIVE OF: Persona 4, Nier,

GAMES THAT NO ONE CARED ABOUT; ALL OF THE ABOVE (and these are just the last two years, and yes persona 4 golden counts)

It's just a bummer. Like, I loved all of these games, and the walking dead, but suddenly it's the walking dead that gets all of the praise because it's a hot property and the puzzles aren't factors enough and it has zombies or whatever.

basically what I'm saying is play Nier if you thought the ending to the walking dead wasn't depressing enough

Like, the last three big GOTY titles (Skyrim, ME2/RDR, B:AA and Uncharted 2) all had either good (subjective I know but shut up guy who didn't like ME2's story, it was FINE) both areas or just really good gameplay (skyrim has a shitty story as well as lame side quests and this is not subjective except it is and I am just a big butthead). Suddenly this is the game that has people triumphing the story, and as someone who has been playing games where the story was the main draw for years, it's just... I hope people remember this for next year, I guess? because if this is the only game it happens too I will be way more angry.

Like I get that I am being completely unfair to the walking dead and the accomplishments telltale have accomplished; regardless of what I said I do think the relationship between Lee and Clem is superior to Persona 4 or Nier (those games do other things with the story as well, however). It's just me and my unreasonably large love for Nier, really.

THIS IS A PSA TO TELL YOU TO PLAY NIER

*slowly backs away*

Why can't people just like what they like without having to constantly justify their opinion?

@JasonR86 said:

Why can't people just like what they like without having to constantly justify their opinion?

because that's no fun.

also I said I was being unreasonable about it what more do you want from me

I think Call of Duty is a steaming pile of shit. I accept that other people love it though and carry on with my own thing. Maybe you should just get over it and accept some people having The Walking Dead as their GOTY?

It's mine.

I get what you're saying. There will always be examples of great things that are left unappreciated as another takes the acclaim, but I think the Walking Dead nails it.

I'll admit I've never played the games you mentioned above, aside from WD. With that said I think WD just hits a nerve. The story is relatable, or as much as a zombie apocalpyse story can be, but replace a zombie outbreak with another disaster and the story of survival would still be appropriate.

I might just check out Nier, though. After reading this post.

I can't even understand what it is you're trying to argue here.

@Animasta said:

GAMES THAT ARE ULTRA DEPRESSING: Nier, Witcher 2, Metro 2033, Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon

I added something you looked over. That's also the only contribution I can make to this conversation where I won't have The Walking Dead potentially spoiled for me.

@Animasta said:

@JasonR86 said:

Why can't people just like what they like without having to constantly justify their opinion?

because that's no fun.

also I said I was being unreasonable about it what more do you want from me

I know. It's not just you that that was directed at. And don't think that you have to justify yourself to me because that would be hypocritical of me. There's another thread pondering the nonsensical 'game vs non-game' argument. It's just such a pointless thing to me. People like what they like and that's that. But apparently a lot of people just aren't happy with that. Liking this game, or another game, doesn't take anything away from anything else. It's like people think that if this game gets recognition then every other game this year is being shit on. It's all just so ridiculous to me.

@Hitchenson said:

I think Call of Duty is a steaming pile of shit. I accept that other people love it though and carry on with my own thing. Maybe you should just get over it and accept some people having The Walking Dead as their GOTY?

It's mine.

ugh thanks for inferring that I care that your GOTY is TWD.

I don't! I really don't. I care about the fact that the things people are praising TWD for have been done before and no one gave a shit then. If you like TWD, great! people should like games, it's better than not liking games. It's just the fact that so many games with a fantastic story and substandard gameplay have fallen to the wayside and no one cared, but then this showed up and all of the sudden people are handwaving boring puzzles and boring shooting.

@JasonR86: sure, I get what you're saying.

but this was yet another way to talk about Nier a bunch of times and I always look for that.

Witcher 2 didn't make choices matter? Craziness.

and

@ArtisanBreads said:

*slowly backs away*

this

@Hailinel said:

I can't even understand what it is you're trying to argue here.

and this

@Colourful_Hippie: actually I was saying the opposite, these games made choice matter (more than the walking dead).

"THE WALKING DEAD IS GOOD BUT PEOPLE CAN'T SAY IT'S GOOD BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE ALSO GOOD."

I haven't played most of those game except a little of Nier and, yup, it is not exactly fun to play, but the potential of the story is definitely there.

@ValiantGrizzly said:

"THE WALKING DEAD IS GOOD BUT PEOPLE CAN'T SAY IT'S GOOD BECAUSE OTHER GAMES ARE ALSO GOOD."

"IF PEOPLE LIKED THE WALKING DEAD THERE ARE ALSO GAMES THAT THEY NEVER PLAYED THAT THEY SHOULD CHECK OUT MAYBE"

more accurate!

Everything is terrible!

I enjoyed The Walking Dead, but I wouldn't give it GOTY. Top 5, mos def. "THE BATTERIES WERE IN THE WRONG WAY!!!"

and, instead of posting a bunch of really snide comments about walking dead all of the time I am writing this blog, thereby getting it out of my system.

doin all y'all a gatdamn favor here

@Animasta: Out of your listed games I've played all of them but Persona (because I straight up don't care about JRPGs), Cinders (I'll be honest, I don't think I've even heard of this) and Nier. I've played tons of games that have "deep and meaningful" stories, yet TWD remains the best I've played. In my opinion games often struggle to make the player actually care about the characters and TWD nailed it. Maybe other games have made you care, but they haven't nearly made me care to the same extent TWD did.

I like the idea of crying AT something, instead of something "making you cry." Like the games have to somehow deal with all of the tears coming at them.

@Hitchenson said:

@Animasta: Out of your listed games I've played all of them but Persona (because I straight up don't care about JRPGs) and Nier. I've played tons of games that have "deep and meaningful" stories, yet TWD remains the best I've played. In my opinion games often struggle to make the player actually care about the characters and TWD nailed it. Maybe other games have made you care, but they haven't nearly made me to the same extent TWD did.

then fine, you aren't the person I'm talking about (though I think you should play Nier because of all the games I've mentioned it's the most similar to TWD, despite the differing gameplay styles). Are you going to say that, if people had taken the time to get into, say, alpha protocol, it would not have gotten a better response than it had, which was whining about the combat (the combat was pretty bad admittedly).

@evanbower: well considering I almost cried about sleeping dogs, maybe they do need to deal with my tears way more often than is necessary, HMM?

I disagree that people didn't give those games credit. The Witcher series has received a huge amount of praise for its dark, choice driven story. I think the problem with Nier is that most people never made it to the end. I know I didn't. The game is just so boring most of the time. I got to a point where I couldn't justify wasting any more time on it regardless of the quality of the ending. I guess me point is that both games (and Metro) were acclaimed for their stories. I just think the gameplay of those games were a lot more difficult to swallow. The Walking Dead had almost no gameplay whatsoever, but that meant by default that the gameplay wasn't bad. Now I loved Metro and The Witcher (haven't played 2 yet) but I could understand how they wouldn't appeal to a lot of people.

Finally, I'll offer this. A lot of movies probably make you cry. But that doesn't take away from the power of each individual movie. The Walking Dead may not have been the first game to make you cry (I didn't cry at all) but that doesn't make the story and worse. The game let you make some of the toughest choices in gaming history. It made you care deeply about its characters in a way few other games have. And then it took them away from you one by one. It's incredibly powerful and I would argue most likely more powerful than the other games you mentioned. Being the first doesn't make you the best. The story of The Walking Dead is better than most other game stories. That is why people like it. Now The Witcher and Nier may have pretty amazing stories as well, (the rest you listed maybe not so much although I haven't played Cinder) but simply put, the story of The Walking Dead is better.

The Walking Dead is a better choice than the rest of the nominees on the spike VGA list. I'm surprised that people like us care so much about Spike's VGA GOTY winner. Just let it be. Besides we all know Mark of the Ninja is the best game this year.

I don't think people liked Nier or the Walking Dead simply because it was depressing. They like it because it was emotionally investing. Being depressing is no more an accomplishment than being fun and lighthearted is. I'm nitpicking, but I'm bothered when people say something is good because it's depressing.

Also while I can understand how you're bothered by the lack of attention given to Nier, the praise given to The Walking Dead in no way trivializes that other game. This sort of mentality is a real problem. It's like when people bring up women's rights and others get offended because they think they're saying there are no injustices against men. Or when people complained about how Amando Todd deserves no more attention than the starving kids in Africa. You can praise Nier while still liking The Walking Dead and vice versa.

@Raven10: if you never completed it I would argue that you shouldn't say one way or the other about Nier, because it gets twice as depressing and way more emotional in the second playthrough, though it's definitely a problem if you never felt like completing it, but the story definitely becomes more than what you assume. I mean you're right about the gameplay and I mentioned that briefly, but it's not like they're that bad.

well okay alpha protocol is that bad, but I still played it four times.

However, a lot of people have said "this is one of the first games that made me cry" and that's a factor, if nothing else, that I don't have.

and I'm not saying that TWD can't be more impactful than Nier, just that no one really played it so they can't say one way or the other.

@Rainbowkisses: this was a thinly veiled thread for people to play Nier, I suppose, now that I think about it.

my regret in wasting my time playing FFXII-2 made me cry too.

also:

Freaking choices matter in zeros virtue! And no talk of tht game ugh.

What in the . .? What?

Why you so crazy?

@vikingdeath1 said:

my regret in wasting my time playing FFXII-2 made me cry too.

also:

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

that "To be continued" made me laugh so hard I cried.

that ending was amazing (and I was more thinking about the part in af700) but this is not the forum to argue this in

@Winternet: because I have nothing else to do but to argue about dumb shit on forums and play video games, AND I'M ALL OUT OF VIDEO GAMES

(except for mark of the ninja I guess)

Yeah, I don't think any of those games you listed where nearly as emotional as TWD. The only other game that has made me feel that sad before was Persona 3.

Alpha Protocol might have made your choices matter, but everything else about the game was absolutely terrible.

I will agree that Fallout: NV was awesome though.

For me the thing that made the choices in TWD stand out is that they really affected the way I (and apparently other players) saw the story. I mean, just look at that one thread where everyone's discussing the final decision you make in the game. One simple dialogue option, and everyone has a very different reason for choosing what they did.

@FancySoapsMan said:

Yeah, I don't think any of those games you listed where nearly as emotional as TWD. The only other game that has made me feel that sad before was Persona 3.

Alpha Protocol might have made your choices matter, but everything else about the game was absolutely terrible.

I will agree that Fallout: NV was awesome though.

For me the thing that made the choices in TWD stand out is that they really affected the way I (and apparently other players) saw the story. I mean, just look at that one thread where everyone's discussing the final decision you make in the game. One simple dialogue option, and everyone has a very different reason for choosing what they did.

I mean it's certainly good at pretending like it's choices matter, but they really don't, in the long run. Even a second ending in TWD would've satisfied me, honestly, where Clem doesn't save Lee and instead just runs away because Lee is a giant jerk.

I love the Witcher, and I think it still has a better choice system then the Walking Dead (though WD does sort of try to attempt to do a similar thing, with not always letting you know exactly how your choices will impact the story until later on). Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of people cared about The Witcher and The Witcher 2; Didn't it sell pretty well?

Walking Dead still might be my GOTY. Not 100 percent sure yet, because I am loving Far Cry 3 so far.

Whenever people say that The Walking Dead isn't a game or that it's too depressing or that their choices didn't matter, what I hear is that some people only want their games to be escapist wish-fulfillment. It's your powerlessness as a player that a lot of people are reacting to, it seems to me. I don't think the backlash against the game would be so vehement if the issue was just over something as dry and intellectual as gameplay mechanics. It almost seems more like some kind of gamer existential crisis -- if nothing that you did in a video game matters, then what does that say about the real world?

@DeathByWaffle said:

I love the Witcher, and I think it still has a better choice system then the Walking Dead (though WD does sort of try to attempt to do a similar thing, with not always letting you know exactly how your choices will impact the story until later on). Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of people cared about The Witcher and The Witcher 2; Didn't it sell pretty well?

Walking Dead still might be my GOTY. Not 100 percent sure yet, because I am loving Far Cry 3 so far.

it sold alright, probably more than the walking dead, but TWD got caught up in that weird internet hype machine, just like Skyrim, whereas the games I mentioned didn't so much.

@Kevin_Cogneto: if that was the case I wouldn't be championing Nier, as it's way way way more depressing than the walking dead (you may argue that TWD is more emotional but Nier is still more depressing)

@Animasta: I don't doubt at all that Nier has an amazing and amazingly powerful story. But if the game is so bad that I can't bring myself to finish it then who cares how good the story is? If they weren't going to make a good game then why not just make a movie? Literally everything about Nier sucked other than the story and music. I would have preferred if it just didn't have the actual game part and just been an anime.

@Demoskinos said:

@Animasta Hmmm...something we can finally agree on? Crazy! I pretty much agree too and look Ill admit that I haven't played the game but from the knowledge I have of the game alot of what I've read that seems well...kinda forced. The basic flow of the story seems to be everyone running from point to point escaping the zambies then something horrible happens and you have to make a fucked up choice often involving someone dying. It seems really formulatic.

as I said, it's not that the game is bad; I think it's rather good and that people should play it (it's formulaic but not in the way you might think).

They should also just play those others too.

@Raven10: like I said, it was a problem that people may find insurmountable (like you) or barely even one, like me. My point stands is that you really don't know until you try it, whereas a lot of people here haven't.

The Walking Dead was not the first game to make me care about the characters but not many games in general do. I suppose for many people it is the most they have ever connected to videogames characters. Thus the praise.

I am fine with that. Differnt people will react to the same story differntly. Yes, games like Nier and Metro that you love are lesser known but it seems you are under the impression that all people who liek the Walking Dead would of gotten invested in those games. I have played Nier up to the first ending and frankly, I don't see the fuss. I know there are multiple endings but I never felt compelled to. Yonah is also lacks any personality. I never personally got invested in her plight.

I don't think choice having a big impact is what people praise about The Walkind Dead. I recognize that the story is largely the same but it does not bother me. It was about the characters and I felt like I forged relationships with them. The way I acted towards Kenny, clem, etc was recognized.

Cinders is great, too. I still never played it again but It seems like a game that handles choice fantasticly. The story and themes are also better in that game. The characters are well written and fleshed out too but I connected to The Walking Dead more. Just the way it happens.

I cared about Nier. I once wrote an essay about it.

I wouldn't call it depressing. I mean, not at first glance, anyway. The depression came after the fact. TWD is constant doom and gloom. Nier at least gives you hope for most of it.

@rebgav said:

@Hailinel said:

I can't even understand what it is you're trying to argue here.

Animasta seems to be querying why this specific game is the one that gets a pass for all of its flaws because people like the story when several other games have done similar things, often better than this game, and often have more to offer. There is the question of whether the license is a factor (which, combined with the developer being a company that the press likes to like, seems quite probable) in this game receiving such a gentle caress from reviewers rather than any rigorous criticism. The OP also states that games being judged for their merits as stories is a partially desirous outcome, so there is no argument to be had. The poster is trying to express confoundment at the current state of affairs, rather than attempting to create conflict.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'd have something more to contribute to this discussion, but I have other things that need tending to.

@Animasta: I think a lot of the praise the game is getting is as much a results of the game's qualities as it is a symptom of the rest of the games that came out this year. Major sequels disappointed either through their failings or franchise fatigue and newcomers failed to make the impact some of the biggest new franchises this generation had with their first installments.

For all intent and purposes The Walking Dead could have been developed and released exactly as is during any of this generation's years and there's absolutely no way it would have gathered the same praise come year's end in any other year this generation.

As for me what bothers me with TWD is similar to the points you brought up but more specific: There are other games this generation that took the trappings of a point and click adventure game and actually tried and sometimes succeeded at evolving the genre. TWD didn't.

Generally i'm of the opinion that to be GOTY, one has to be able to see past the more subjective parts of a game and be able to acknowledge its qualities even if you didn't enjoy the game yourself. The only part to be entirely subjective in TWD is it's story and your appreciation of it or lack there of. If someone doesn't like the story in TWD, i don't see any possibilities of that person being able to consider the game any good. When looking at past winners and runner ups, let say Arkham Asylum for example, if someone doesn't like the story, or the aesthetic of the game and that those elements were enough to turn off that person from enjoying the game, if that person remains honest she can't say the rest of that game isn't solid, well executed design and gameplay.

Also you sound a bit unstable.

@DonChipotle said:

I cared about Nier. I once wrote an essay about it.

I wouldn't call it depressing. I mean, not at first glance, anyway. The depression came after the fact. TWD is constant doom and gloom. Nier at least gives you hope for most of it.

exactly!

so it's that much worse when it's revealed that nope, no hope.

@ImmortalSaiyan: I gotta say that if you had gotten through the second playthrough you would realize why that game is so emotional for me (it's not yonah that I cared about the most)

@Pr1mus: my comments after the fact are perfectly stable, I just have an off the wall writing style that doesn't work well in long bursts!

@Animasta said:

@DonChipotle said:

I cared about Nier. I once wrote an essay about it.

I wouldn't call it depressing. I mean, not at first glance, anyway. The depression came after the fact. TWD is constant doom and gloom. Nier at least gives you hope for most of it.

exactly!

so it's that much worse when it's revealed that nope, no hope.

@ImmortalSaiyan: I gotta say that if you had gotten through the second playthrough you would realize why that game is so emotional for me (it's not yonah that I cared about the most)

@Pr1mus: my comments after the fact are perfectly stable, I just have an off the wall writing style that doesn't work well in long bursts!

I still think Ending D of Nier is the most depressing ending. Not just for its content but because of the statement it makes.

Is this thread english?

@xaLieNxGrEyx said:

Is this thread english?

NEIN

DU KANNST NICHT DIESE BLOG GELESEN

(I wonder what the german word for blog is)

@Demoskinos said:

@Animasta Not trying to say its bad but I do believe Im in your camp here. I was a tad of a emotional wreck by the end of FFXIII-2 that ending was aptly horrifying and Im so glad they had the balls to end it on that note. Spec Ops got to me as did parts of sleeping dogs and Binary Domain and.....Yeah I guess Im a crazy emotional person too now that I think about it. =/

well then you will be a wreck in the walking dead, trust me

it gets pretty bad

oof

(also, suggestion; do not play them all in 2 days like I did)

@Animasta: The German word for blog is "blog".

I honestly don't get why the press is reacting to TWD the way it is. It's a fine zombie story but that's all it is.

I played Nier. Walking Dead is superior.

@Animasta said:

@DonChipotle said:

I cared about Nier. I once wrote an essay about it.

I wouldn't call it depressing. I mean, not at first glance, anyway. The depression came after the fact. TWD is constant doom and gloom. Nier at least gives you hope for most of it.

exactly!

so it's that much worse when it's revealed that nope, no hope.

@ImmortalSaiyan: I gotta say that if you had gotten through the second playthrough you would realize why that game is so emotional for me (it's not yonah that I cared about the most)

@Pr1mus: my comments after the fact are perfectly stable, I just have an off the wall writing style that doesn't work well in long bursts!

I should at some point. Was just that after playing through it, doing the last few hours again was not something I wanted to do. The problem going back now would be that I barely remember the story.