Got the game yesterday and simply love every aspect about it, except the combat...holy hell, i cant even begin to understand how they made such a great game and then gave it such truely terrible controls.
Am i just missing something here? Arrogantly saying i have always been quite decent at fighter games, beat both DMC and Bayonetta on hardest setting etc, and generally im very into RPGs, but in Witcher i feel like the biggest newbie ever.
Im really dying to play this game but everytime i go into combat i die a few times because you're just getting zerged and everytime my char is way to slow todo anything about it.
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
Game » consists of 16 releases. Released May 17, 2011
The sequel to 2007's critically acclaimed role-playing game, The Witcher. Players again take control of Geralt of Rivia in this story-focused adventure.
How to make the combat work? Controls are the clunkiest ever?
Wow... i blasted trough the trollcave without much trouble at all with the controller when before i could barely kill half the first neeker zerg before dying in a storm of frustration.
Thanks for the tip!
Kinda weird how they optimized for controller play when the game isn't coming to consoles for a good 6 months.
I found The Witcher 2 to play better with the mouse and keyboard. with the keyboard you get access to more stuff, easier. Plus quicksaves.
By making the direction you are facing alter your attacks, and making all of your combat animations uninterruptable, they made the system feel like slamming your forehead against a keyboard. I like how they set that up, at least in theory, but they didn't give us a tutorial explaining anything about it, and some of the moves are just horrible compared to others of the moves. Facing to the right and using fast attack -> Absolutely horrible death trap animation with no damage. Facing to the left and using fast attack -> One shotting anything in the game that doesn't have a shield.
Controller works great once you:
1) Switch LB and LT so that LT is lock on and LB is quick menu
2) Change D-pad Left to "next sign" and D-pad right to "Next item in pocket"
Those two changes make it play awesome with controller. Lock is something you should use frequently. You do then have to go into the quick menu to change swords, but you do this way less often than you change spells and items. This set up makes it where you very rarely have to even go into your quick menu.
I found The Witcher 2 to play better with the mouse and keyboard. with the keyboard you get access to more stuff, easier. Plus quicksaves.
F5 for quicksave works just fine when you play with gamepad. M for map, J for journal and all the other hotkeys to. You dont unplug your keyboard from the computer when playing with the gamepad right? :)
Gamepad doesn't help me since I can't switch the Y axis on the right stick. Makes it harder to play with. I really want to play this game.
Nope, not missing anything. Combat's clunky. I turned it down to easy so I didn't have to fight the controls and works fine now. I dodge a hell of a lot, almost never rely on blocking since it uses up vigor, and run around a lot to keep from getting hit. When dealing with groups, grenades are your friend. I like the star something something....can't remember the name but it's basically napalm.
So yeah, I really do not understand why people complain so much about the combat... I found it to be challeging, sure, but definitely not difficult or clunky. It's just very tactical and non hack 'n slashy, which is good and feels fresh at this day and age. Just handle enemies as a group rather than one at the time, i.e. land a couple of hits on one guy, then move the mouse/camera towards the next foe and Geralt will immediately attack it and so on and so on. If you do this, you can almost always keep pushing back all your enemies while decimating them at the same time. If one gets too close, just block and then dodge to get some maneuvering space before jumping back into the action. Also, don't use the lock-on feature like you'd normally use in other games; this is not a console game, afterall.
And at least for me it was as easy as that, really :)
I switched to using the Xbox 360 controller but the Mouse and Keyboard just feels WAY better. The combat works perfectly fine, you just have to get used to it.
As someone already mentioned use Quen, that thing will save your life. When you level it up it damages surrounding enemies as well so make sure to put some points in to that.
Nope, not missing anything. Combat's clunky. I turned it down to easy so I didn't have to fight the controls and works fine now. I dodge a hell of a lot, almost never rely on blocking since it uses up vigor, and run around a lot to keep from getting hit. When dealing with groups, grenades are your friend. I like the star something something....can't remember the name but it's basically napalm.I play at the hardest setting now - die and you die, and I have no problem what so ever with the combat using K & M. It seems to me like a bunch of console gamers are whinging because the game makes few allowances for them. This game provides none of molly coddled combat they're often used to. I for one am very thankful of that.
Just finished the game on Hard.
Don't really want to try insanity if only due to the Eternal Battle part of the game.
That seems like the most risky part.
There are a few too many instant death moments in the game to make Insanity apealing to me personally.
I'm a PC gamer and I have no problems with difficult games. What I however have a problem with is when the difficulty comes from having to fight the controls. if I'd have been the only one complaining about this, I'd admit that maybe it was just me...but general consensus is that the combat is unresponsive and clunky.
Considering how they've made it I doubt it would be any better with a controller. The problem isn't with mouse n' keyboard it's with the responsiveness of Geralt. Several times I've tried to attack and he just stands there doing nothing. Other times I can literally count the seconds between my input and him executing. Another problem is how they choose to handle blocking. Since responsiveness isn't their thing, you can't pull up the block quickly, during an incoming attack, but rather you'd have to star out blocking and wait for them to to attack. Also, the decision to have vigor drain for using block I find highly questionable since it adds another level of limitation on your block.
The only thing in combat which feels slightly responsive is his dodge, and that I use as much as I can. It is the only thing I feel I can use to get a bit of defense.
Btw, how about you try to make an actual point next time instead of just being a fucking douche?
Tried the controller cause people where positive about it, but i hated it. I like the combat better with a mouse and keyboard. I find it much easier to quickly change target, that way you can kind of fly around the screen Assassins Creed style. Land a few hits, find next target get some blows in there and so on.
Also i find it way faster to select powers, traps and whatnot.
It gets better when you get more abilities.
(What's up with all this "console gamer" bullshit? Do you people know for what platforms practically all games with this type of action combat -- including the very best and hardest -- are released? Here's a hint: the PC isn't one of them.)
You can actually block in the middle of your own swing even.
If you make an effort to learn how the combat flows, it's quite fluid.
If you go into the sword tree you can Riposte all attacks from humans, doing massive damage and loosing no Vigor.
If you go into magic you can throw down a Quen and never block again ever.
Also there is no "general consensus" that the combat is unresponsive or clunky. Some people complain, many tell them they are wrong.
About the only general consensus that there is is that the game is bad at teaching you all this combat related stuff.
I hated the combat till my level was in the teens, at that point I l began to really enjoy it. I played with a controller the whole way through.
@Vodun: You can actually block in the middle of your own swing even. If you make an effort to learn how the combat flows, it's quite fluid. If you go into the sword tree you can Riposte all attacks from humans, doing massive damage and loosing no Vigor. If you go into magic you can throw down a Quen and never block again ever. Also there is no "general consensus" that the combat is unresponsive or clunky. Some people complain, many tell them they are wrong. About the only general consensus that there is is that the game is bad at teaching you all this combat related stuff.Then there is something wrong with my game, because if I have any other action going my block doesn't work. Sometimes even standing still it won't come up. And if you read any reviews or forum posts about the game, the only complaint anyone has about this game relates to the combat.
@Tennmuerti said:Oh I agree that that is the only complaint.@Vodun: You can actually block in the middle of your own swing even. If you make an effort to learn how the combat flows, it's quite fluid. If you go into the sword tree you can Riposte all attacks from humans, doing massive damage and loosing no Vigor. If you go into magic you can throw down a Quen and never block again ever. Also there is no "general consensus" that the combat is unresponsive or clunky. Some people complain, many tell them they are wrong. About the only general consensus that there is is that the game is bad at teaching you all this combat related stuff.Then there is something wrong with my game, because if I have any other action going my block doesn't work. Sometimes even standing still it won't come up. And if you read any reviews or forum posts about the game, the only complaint anyone has about this game relates to the combat.
My point is that many people also disagree that that is a valid complaint.
As for block you have to keep holding it even while in mid swing. The only time block fails if it's started already at the end of your swing or too late in the enemy swing.
A good place-to practice blocking if you want to do it, is the Eternal Battle on Hard. For 2 reasons, 1 is that this is the only skill you have there and 2 is that on Hard it's either learning how to block properly or dieing there.
At the moment I can for example start my swing at an enemy, see him attack me in return, hold block, as soon as swords clash, release block, hit attack again, now into a staggered enemy. Just need to get the hang of the timing.
First of all relax, I'm not having a go at you. just the many I've seen on these boards and others who blatantly give the impression they expected the combat to be free flowing like Assassins Creed or something. My only point is that you get used to it, as I say in my very first post in this thread, instantaneously.
I've been playing consistently since I got the game at launch, unlike you I know that once that learning steep curve is passed you pretty much nail the combat, and it's not solely down to levelling up, it's something completely different that just clicks. And It's that clicking that makes this game so rewarding. But that reward comes at a price, which I'll get into later. If I were you I would just relax and ease into it slowly, with a game this brutal you just have to gulp down and take it in, otherwise you'll very quickly ruin your experience and impressions. Despite what you may think, it's does certain things with good reason. Take the blocking for instance, that forces you into good tactical combat, where positioning is key and where utilising the environment whenever possible is absolutely vital. As opposed to combat which aims to provide instant gratification, a console-like experience, that's happy to allow freedoms to the player, which naturally result in them rushing in gung-ho hoping for the best. Rather than having to learn with strife. The game tries to bring in positive and negative ramifications to all your actions whenever it can, that's a hallmark of any good RPG in my eyes.
I don't think it's clunky, but I can see what you've been quick to assume that. I thought it was initially, having played so much of the first game, which felt a lot freer despite it's flaws. I now see it in a completely different light, what I see are thought provoking combat mechanics that force you into preparation and juggling your abilities in the best way you can. That's so RPG, if you cannot see that' your blind.
There are some slight glitches, but that's not the main problem your having, your frustrations are born from playing a game which does a terrible job at introducing the combat and many other things to the player, in a way that can be easily registered and applied. Here's thing thing, your either going to go one of two ways, one way is squeezing sour grapes and cursing away at the screen, or, smiling back at it while cursing. Get over it, and you'll quickly start to respect it and appreciate it more. I can only speak of my own experience, for me it only made me like the game more. Your kicked into this world where your forced to learn so much which so much strain along the start of your adventure, but it's because of that very strain that your foundation for having fun is so much stronger later on in the game. It has it's problems, I'm not denying that, but they're problems which I think can easily be remedied with patches. Take the finisher for instance, they can be extremely disorientating, three kill finishers are the worst.
If you've actually played the game and think the combat flows smoothly, I've got news for you-> You have a higher tolerance than the average gamer. That's not a bad thing, but it's important to understand that you aren't the only person in the world playing video games, and not everyone is willing to put up with the same level of complexity, especially when that complexity is entirely unnecessary and has no in-game explanation. Left attack is supposed to be a fast attack. It's only a fast attack if you are facing your opponent and are moving towards your opponent when you use it. If you are attempting to flank around your opponent, or roll around him, your 'fast attack' will be a lengthy animation that either hits the enemy 5 times or takes a full second to hit him once, depending on which way you are facing at the time. This isn't intuitive. When you face to the right and click left attack, and Geralt jumps in the air, spins around winding up his attack, then stabs the enemy for normal fast attack damage, that isn't practical. It isn't useful. If part of the 'learning curve' is learning to never, ever use that move, under any circumstances, the added move is unnecessary. If facing to the left before you attack will one-shot every single enemy in the game that doesn't have a shield, the only 'learning curve' involved with this particular move is to figure out to always use it when you're facing any enemy that doesn't have a shield. This system isn't some deep, rich fighting game system, it's a fairly garbagey action game control scheme with no tutorial.
Take the blocking for instance, that forces you into good tactical combat, where positioning is key and where utilising the environment whenever possible is absolutely vital. As opposed to combat which aims to provide instant gratification, a console-like experience, that's happy to allow freedoms to the player, which naturally result in them rushing in gung-ho hoping for the best.The Witcher 2's combat isn't more tactical than, say, God Hand's. It's just got shittier, less responsive controls and worse enemy design. The only reason it's tolerable is that you eventually get ridiculously powerful shit (traps, maxed out Quen and so on) that lets you get through most fights without having to worry about poor hit detection, unresponsiveness, imprecision and other issues.
Like the guy above me said:
@SonicBoyster said:
This system isn't some deep, rich fighting game system, it's a fairly garbagey action game control scheme with no tutorial.
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