Here's Your First Look at Universe 3.0 in WWE '13

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

Conversation trees/branching storylines in a WWE game? Before that feature shows up in a proper Final Fantasy game (I'm ignoring the half-assed version implemented in Final Fantasy XIII-2)? This is madness.

At any rate, all I can say is, I miss WWE All Stars. Yuke's puts a ton of work into the production of these games, and the feature set is always impressive and ambitious. But the core gameplay blows, especially compared to THQ San Diego's arcadey fighter/wrestler hybrid. I can't believe THQ closed that studio. They were MUCH better at making great animations and responsive controls - two kind ofimportant elements when you're making any sort of fighting game - than Yuke's is. All Stars was the best playing wrestling game since Friday Night Slam Masters on SNES.

That being said, can't wait for the Quick Look! Hope Jeff goes all out and makes a Giant Bomb-themed WWE TV Show and PPV in this puppy!

That's so true, man. I remembered about WWE All Stars and played some of it again just the other day to see if it still holds up and damn - that's a masterpiece of a game! That arcade style wrestling/fighting engine should be norm.

Also, let's not forget about Def Jam Vendetta and Def Jam Fight for NY.

I agree also with the Saturday Night Slam Masters - Capcom should remake it in HD to amend their RE 6 fiasco at least.

Treating wrestling like a sports sim franchise - the biggest and most stupid mistake I ever seen!

Except for the fact that it's what wrestling fans want. Have you noticed that the people who love WWE All Stars so much are rarely fans of the current WWE product? The people who actually turn into the show every week want a sports simulation game. They want their version of Madden, with the annual costume updates and characters. On the Xbox alone WWE '12 sold a million copies. All Stars sold about 200,000 on the same platform.

I don't see what's so crazy about selling wrestling games to wrestling fans. It's the same strategy behind Madden and other sports simulation games. They aren't making arcade-y, fun-for-everyone games. They are selling to a specific market, and it is working. People like Jeff Gerstmann claim that it's the funniest a wrestling game has been in years, and that's fine, but he is also an example of someone whose appreciation for wrestling is purely nostalgic. That's not enough passion to form a game around.

I understand where you're coming from, but quantity isn't quality: Lady Gaga outsells Pink Floyd, therefore Lady Gaga is a better artist?

Let's be honest: WWE All Stars didn't have the marketing of WWE 12 behind it. Also, for years, wrestling tried to compete with MMA, UFC for the same audience and that also ruined its identity, since those programs offered real fights, not rehearsed, staged clashes.

And these guys must be also nostalgic since they include Stone Cold, The Rock and other wrestling legends in each title year after year. Why? Can't they sell their wrestling purely on their current stars, like Cena and Orton? Not even to the 12-year-olds? That means it's a lack of quality in their current product, rather than just nostalgia.

And dude, there's also a fracture in their logic: you can simulate racing, football, basketball and other sports or real activities, but how can you simulate a TV show, something staged, scripted, a rehearsed, choreographed "male soap opera"?

It's like hoping that De Niro escapes Pacino's chase in Heat when you rewind the movie... and making bets about it nonetheless! It's absurd.

Looks spiffy.

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

Conversation trees/branching storylines in a WWE game? Before that feature shows up in a proper Final Fantasy game (I'm ignoring the half-assed version implemented in Final Fantasy XIII-2)? This is madness.

At any rate, all I can say is, I miss WWE All Stars. Yuke's puts a ton of work into the production of these games, and the feature set is always impressive and ambitious. But the core gameplay blows, especially compared to THQ San Diego's arcadey fighter/wrestler hybrid. I can't believe THQ closed that studio. They were MUCH better at making great animations and responsive controls - two kind ofimportant elements when you're making any sort of fighting game - than Yuke's is. All Stars was the best playing wrestling game since Friday Night Slam Masters on SNES.

That being said, can't wait for the Quick Look! Hope Jeff goes all out and makes a Giant Bomb-themed WWE TV Show and PPV in this puppy!

That's so true, man. I remembered about WWE All Stars and played some of it again just the other day to see if it still holds up and damn - that's a masterpiece of a game! That arcade style wrestling/fighting engine should be norm.

Also, let's not forget about Def Jam Vendetta and Def Jam Fight for NY.

I agree also with the Saturday Night Slam Masters - Capcom should remake it in HD to amend their RE 6 fiasco at least.

Treating wrestling like a sports sim franchise - the biggest and most stupid mistake I ever seen!

Except for the fact that it's what wrestling fans want. Have you noticed that the people who love WWE All Stars so much are rarely fans of the current WWE product? The people who actually turn into the show every week want a sports simulation game. They want their version of Madden, with the annual costume updates and characters. On the Xbox alone WWE '12 sold a million copies. All Stars sold about 200,000 on the same platform.

I don't see what's so crazy about selling wrestling games to wrestling fans. It's the same strategy behind Madden and other sports simulation games. They aren't making arcade-y, fun-for-everyone games. They are selling to a specific market, and it is working. People like Jeff Gerstmann claim that it's the funniest a wrestling game has been in years, and that's fine, but he is also an example of someone whose appreciation for wrestling is purely nostalgic. That's not enough passion to form a game around.

I understand where you're coming from, but quantity isn't quality: Lady Gaga outsells Pink Floyd, therefore Lady Gaga is a better artist?

Let's be honest: WWE All Stars didn't have the marketing of WWE 12 behind it. Also, for years, wrestling tried to compete with MMA, UFC for the same audience and that also ruined its identity, since those programs offered real fights, not rehearsed, staged clashes.

And these guys must be also nostalgic since they include Stone Cold, The Rock and other wrestling legends in each title year after year. Why? Can't they sell their wrestling purely on their current stars, like Cena and Orton? Not even to the 12-year-olds? That means it's a lack of quality in their current product, rather than just nostalgia.

And dude, there's also a fracture in their logic: you can simulate racing, football, basketball and other sports or real activities, but how can you simulate a TV show, something staged, scripted, a rehearsed, choreographed "male soap opera"?

It's like hoping that De Niro escapes Pacino's chase in Heat when you rewind the movie... and making bets about it nonetheless! It's absurd.

If a company had a choice between releasing a Lady Gaga album and a Pink Floyd album, then the choice is obvious. Lady Gaga is the more profitable product and the one that more people are clamoring for.

I never once said that the WWE simulation games are better than All Stars. I just said that they are more profitable and more designed to the interests of the current wrestling fans.

As far as the MMA/UFC goes, those programs have actually forced the WWE to skew more towards programming for children. The result is that the WWE audience consists more and more of young children and bored parents who have no nostalgia for the product. Something like All Stars would mean nothing to them because they only know the current stars. They loved John Cena but wouldn't know fucking Bret Hart from Andre the Giant.

Wrestling has always had retired superstars making appearances. It's part of the show, the spectacle. The games including people like the Stone Cold is entirely appropriate because that's exactly what happens on the show.

And there is no flaw in my logic. The games work entirely in kayfabe. It's not a "simulated television show" in the game, just like it's not "simulated" on the actual programming. The show treats the wrestling like it's real, so the games do too. I don't even understand your point here.

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

Conversation trees/branching storylines in a WWE game? Before that feature shows up in a proper Final Fantasy game (I'm ignoring the half-assed version implemented in Final Fantasy XIII-2)? This is madness.

At any rate, all I can say is, I miss WWE All Stars. Yuke's puts a ton of work into the production of these games, and the feature set is always impressive and ambitious. But the core gameplay blows, especially compared to THQ San Diego's arcadey fighter/wrestler hybrid. I can't believe THQ closed that studio. They were MUCH better at making great animations and responsive controls - two kind ofimportant elements when you're making any sort of fighting game - than Yuke's is. All Stars was the best playing wrestling game since Friday Night Slam Masters on SNES.

That being said, can't wait for the Quick Look! Hope Jeff goes all out and makes a Giant Bomb-themed WWE TV Show and PPV in this puppy!

That's so true, man. I remembered about WWE All Stars and played some of it again just the other day to see if it still holds up and damn - that's a masterpiece of a game! That arcade style wrestling/fighting engine should be norm.

Also, let's not forget about Def Jam Vendetta and Def Jam Fight for NY.

I agree also with the Saturday Night Slam Masters - Capcom should remake it in HD to amend their RE 6 fiasco at least.

Treating wrestling like a sports sim franchise - the biggest and most stupid mistake I ever seen!

Except for the fact that it's what wrestling fans want. Have you noticed that the people who love WWE All Stars so much are rarely fans of the current WWE product? The people who actually turn into the show every week want a sports simulation game. They want their version of Madden, with the annual costume updates and characters. On the Xbox alone WWE '12 sold a million copies. All Stars sold about 200,000 on the same platform.

I don't see what's so crazy about selling wrestling games to wrestling fans. It's the same strategy behind Madden and other sports simulation games. They aren't making arcade-y, fun-for-everyone games. They are selling to a specific market, and it is working. People like Jeff Gerstmann claim that it's the funniest a wrestling game has been in years, and that's fine, but he is also an example of someone whose appreciation for wrestling is purely nostalgic. That's not enough passion to form a game around.

I understand where you're coming from, but quantity isn't quality: Lady Gaga outsells Pink Floyd, therefore Lady Gaga is a better artist?

Let's be honest: WWE All Stars didn't have the marketing of WWE 12 behind it. Also, for years, wrestling tried to compete with MMA, UFC for the same audience and that also ruined its identity, since those programs offered real fights, not rehearsed, staged clashes.

And these guys must be also nostalgic since they include Stone Cold, The Rock and other wrestling legends in each title year after year. Why? Can't they sell their wrestling purely on their current stars, like Cena and Orton? Not even to the 12-year-olds? That means it's a lack of quality in their current product, rather than just nostalgia.

And dude, there's also a fracture in their logic: you can simulate racing, football, basketball and other sports or real activities, but how can you simulate a TV show, something staged, scripted, a rehearsed, choreographed "male soap opera"?

It's like hoping that De Niro escapes Pacino's chase in Heat when you rewind the movie... and making bets about it nonetheless! It's absurd.

If a company had a choice between releasing a Lady Gaga album and a Pink Floyd album, then the choice is obvious. Lady Gaga is the more profitable product and the one that more people are clamoring for.

I never once said that the WWE simulation games are better than All Stars. I just said that they are more profitable and more designed to the interests of the current wrestling fans.

As far as the MMA/UFC goes, those programs have actually forced the WWE to skew more towards programming for children. The result is that the WWE audience consists more and more of young children and bored parents who have no nostalgia for the product. Something like All Stars would mean nothing to them because they only know the current stars. They loved John Cena but wouldn't know fucking Bret Hart from Andre the Giant.

Wrestling has always had retired superstars making appearances. It's part of the show, the spectacle. The games including people like the Stone Cold is entirely appropriate because that's exactly what happens on the show.

And there is no flaw in my logic. The games work entirely in kayfabe. It's not a "simulated television show" in the game, just like it's not "simulated" on the actual programming. The show treats the wrestling like it's real, so the games do too. I don't even understand your point here.

Syllogisms are not arguments. Sorry

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

Conversation trees/branching storylines in a WWE game? Before that feature shows up in a proper Final Fantasy game (I'm ignoring the half-assed version implemented in Final Fantasy XIII-2)? This is madness.

At any rate, all I can say is, I miss WWE All Stars. Yuke's puts a ton of work into the production of these games, and the feature set is always impressive and ambitious. But the core gameplay blows, especially compared to THQ San Diego's arcadey fighter/wrestler hybrid. I can't believe THQ closed that studio. They were MUCH better at making great animations and responsive controls - two kind ofimportant elements when you're making any sort of fighting game - than Yuke's is. All Stars was the best playing wrestling game since Friday Night Slam Masters on SNES.

That being said, can't wait for the Quick Look! Hope Jeff goes all out and makes a Giant Bomb-themed WWE TV Show and PPV in this puppy!

That's so true, man. I remembered about WWE All Stars and played some of it again just the other day to see if it still holds up and damn - that's a masterpiece of a game! That arcade style wrestling/fighting engine should be norm.

Also, let's not forget about Def Jam Vendetta and Def Jam Fight for NY.

I agree also with the Saturday Night Slam Masters - Capcom should remake it in HD to amend their RE 6 fiasco at least.

Treating wrestling like a sports sim franchise - the biggest and most stupid mistake I ever seen!

Except for the fact that it's what wrestling fans want. Have you noticed that the people who love WWE All Stars so much are rarely fans of the current WWE product? The people who actually turn into the show every week want a sports simulation game. They want their version of Madden, with the annual costume updates and characters. On the Xbox alone WWE '12 sold a million copies. All Stars sold about 200,000 on the same platform.

I don't see what's so crazy about selling wrestling games to wrestling fans. It's the same strategy behind Madden and other sports simulation games. They aren't making arcade-y, fun-for-everyone games. They are selling to a specific market, and it is working. People like Jeff Gerstmann claim that it's the funniest a wrestling game has been in years, and that's fine, but he is also an example of someone whose appreciation for wrestling is purely nostalgic. That's not enough passion to form a game around.

I understand where you're coming from, but quantity isn't quality: Lady Gaga outsells Pink Floyd, therefore Lady Gaga is a better artist?

Let's be honest: WWE All Stars didn't have the marketing of WWE 12 behind it. Also, for years, wrestling tried to compete with MMA, UFC for the same audience and that also ruined its identity, since those programs offered real fights, not rehearsed, staged clashes.

And these guys must be also nostalgic since they include Stone Cold, The Rock and other wrestling legends in each title year after year. Why? Can't they sell their wrestling purely on their current stars, like Cena and Orton? Not even to the 12-year-olds? That means it's a lack of quality in their current product, rather than just nostalgia.

And dude, there's also a fracture in their logic: you can simulate racing, football, basketball and other sports or real activities, but how can you simulate a TV show, something staged, scripted, a rehearsed, choreographed "male soap opera"?

It's like hoping that De Niro escapes Pacino's chase in Heat when you rewind the movie... and making bets about it nonetheless! It's absurd.

If a company had a choice between releasing a Lady Gaga album and a Pink Floyd album, then the choice is obvious. Lady Gaga is the more profitable product and the one that more people are clamoring for.

I never once said that the WWE simulation games are better than All Stars. I just said that they are more profitable and more designed to the interests of the current wrestling fans.

As far as the MMA/UFC goes, those programs have actually forced the WWE to skew more towards programming for children. The result is that the WWE audience consists more and more of young children and bored parents who have no nostalgia for the product. Something like All Stars would mean nothing to them because they only know the current stars. They loved John Cena but wouldn't know fucking Bret Hart from Andre the Giant.

Wrestling has always had retired superstars making appearances. It's part of the show, the spectacle. The games including people like the Stone Cold is entirely appropriate because that's exactly what happens on the show.

And there is no flaw in my logic. The games work entirely in kayfabe. It's not a "simulated television show" in the game, just like it's not "simulated" on the actual programming. The show treats the wrestling like it's real, so the games do too. I don't even understand your point here.

Syllogisms are not arguments. Sorry

You could have just said, "I don't actually have a response" and been done with it. Don't even know why you'd post something so silly.

Pre-order now and Mike Tyson will shop at your house and bite your ear off.

@thesage: How much less could you care?

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@Meowshi said:

@Vlad_Tiberius said:

@vinsanityv22 said:

Conversation trees/branching storylines in a WWE game? Before that feature shows up in a proper Final Fantasy game (I'm ignoring the half-assed version implemented in Final Fantasy XIII-2)? This is madness.

At any rate, all I can say is, I miss WWE All Stars. Yuke's puts a ton of work into the production of these games, and the feature set is always impressive and ambitious. But the core gameplay blows, especially compared to THQ San Diego's arcadey fighter/wrestler hybrid. I can't believe THQ closed that studio. They were MUCH better at making great animations and responsive controls - two kind ofimportant elements when you're making any sort of fighting game - than Yuke's is. All Stars was the best playing wrestling game since Friday Night Slam Masters on SNES.

That being said, can't wait for the Quick Look! Hope Jeff goes all out and makes a Giant Bomb-themed WWE TV Show and PPV in this puppy!

That's so true, man. I remembered about WWE All Stars and played some of it again just the other day to see if it still holds up and damn - that's a masterpiece of a game! That arcade style wrestling/fighting engine should be norm.

Also, let's not forget about Def Jam Vendetta and Def Jam Fight for NY.

I agree also with the Saturday Night Slam Masters - Capcom should remake it in HD to amend their RE 6 fiasco at least.

Treating wrestling like a sports sim franchise - the biggest and most stupid mistake I ever seen!

Except for the fact that it's what wrestling fans want. Have you noticed that the people who love WWE All Stars so much are rarely fans of the current WWE product? The people who actually turn into the show every week want a sports simulation game. They want their version of Madden, with the annual costume updates and characters. On the Xbox alone WWE '12 sold a million copies. All Stars sold about 200,000 on the same platform.

I don't see what's so crazy about selling wrestling games to wrestling fans. It's the same strategy behind Madden and other sports simulation games. They aren't making arcade-y, fun-for-everyone games. They are selling to a specific market, and it is working. People like Jeff Gerstmann claim that it's the funniest a wrestling game has been in years, and that's fine, but he is also an example of someone whose appreciation for wrestling is purely nostalgic. That's not enough passion to form a game around.

I understand where you're coming from, but quantity isn't quality: Lady Gaga outsells Pink Floyd, therefore Lady Gaga is a better artist?

Let's be honest: WWE All Stars didn't have the marketing of WWE 12 behind it. Also, for years, wrestling tried to compete with MMA, UFC for the same audience and that also ruined its identity, since those programs offered real fights, not rehearsed, staged clashes.

And these guys must be also nostalgic since they include Stone Cold, The Rock and other wrestling legends in each title year after year. Why? Can't they sell their wrestling purely on their current stars, like Cena and Orton? Not even to the 12-year-olds? That means it's a lack of quality in their current product, rather than just nostalgia.

And dude, there's also a fracture in their logic: you can simulate racing, football, basketball and other sports or real activities, but how can you simulate a TV show, something staged, scripted, a rehearsed, choreographed "male soap opera"?

It's like hoping that De Niro escapes Pacino's chase in Heat when you rewind the movie... and making bets about it nonetheless! It's absurd.

If a company had a choice between releasing a Lady Gaga album and a Pink Floyd album, then the choice is obvious. Lady Gaga is the more profitable product and the one that more people are clamoring for.

I never once said that the WWE simulation games are better than All Stars. I just said that they are more profitable and more designed to the interests of the current wrestling fans.

As far as the MMA/UFC goes, those programs have actually forced the WWE to skew more towards programming for children. The result is that the WWE audience consists more and more of young children and bored parents who have no nostalgia for the product. Something like All Stars would mean nothing to them because they only know the current stars. They loved John Cena but wouldn't know fucking Bret Hart from Andre the Giant.

Wrestling has always had retired superstars making appearances. It's part of the show, the spectacle. The games including people like the Stone Cold is entirely appropriate because that's exactly what happens on the show.

And there is no flaw in my logic. The games work entirely in kayfabe. It's not a "simulated television show" in the game, just like it's not "simulated" on the actual programming. The show treats the wrestling like it's real, so the games do too. I don't even understand your point here.

Syllogisms are not arguments. Sorry

You could have just said, "I don't actually have a response" and been done with it. Don't even know why you'd post something so silly.

Dude, what you've explained to me is trivial, so no need explain me that they're a business and doing it for the money. They always did it for the money.

And the thing with MMA and UFC is that they've tried to copy them and go after their audience, they failed, but they didn't go back to the previous wacky, crazy, with colorful characters format, but instead went kiddy friendly, teen pop shit all of a sudden. And this is what you have today: a fucking MMA wannabe show mixed with kiddy friendly MTV teen pop vibe plus social media obsession on top. Basically, WWE looks and feels today like a confused stupid teenager desperate for attention.

And yes, they always used retired guys to make appearances, but never with so much intensity as in these last years. The product has become such crap, such devoid of any personality or even identity, that they've started desperately to create events and opportunities in which old retired guys to appear just to use that spark of nostalgia to sell their shows.

Look at this marketing campaign: they go balls out to the Attitude era, with tiny crumbs of current stuff.

Go back in 2000: how many wrestling shows and videogames with legends and huge nostalgia factor did you have then compared to nowadays?

When Stone Cold and The Rock were tearing the roof apart, reminiscing over Jake "The Snake" Roberts vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage was both hilarious and ridiculous - but now, with the crap today, it's not only cool, but a necessity!

"The show treats wrestling like it's real, so the games do too"- there's the problem. They assume people are stupid and think it's real. Why don't they sell it as it is - a show? What's wrong in admitting that you're selling a program, a TV show, with wrestlers as actors? Because they already did that in the '80s, the '90s and the early 2000. Why are they so desperate to be taken serious? Aren't the kids today so "easily" convinced? Fuck 'em or try harder!

Can't they make believable storylines with believable characters in a believable context anymore, so they have to rely on simulating shit? What's next: asking the audience who should face who, who should be the champion and how should a feud end? How about voting who should be the actors in a movie and how that movie should end? Or better yet, who should be the killer in an Agatha Christie's crime novel. Or letting people dictate how Mass Effect 3's story should end.

That's lack of creativity, not a new business vision and this sense of entitlement is ruining everything.

Every normal, level-headed guy knows that wrestling is something scripted, rehearsed, but loves it for the spectacle, the feuds, the confrontation, the speeches, that whole vibe. The same reason we enjoy a movie or a song. The same reason that people enjoy Christmas with Santa, the reindeers, that whole magic and all that jazz - because it makes us feel good, it's something fun, even though it isn't real. And trying to make these things realistic, more often than not, is ruining the fun and the magic of them. That's what my point was really about.

It's still WWF to me dammit!

Is creative Rabbi an official term?