137 CommentsRefresh

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Posted By revolverroach

I disagreed with most of Justin's opinions and I think that's FANTASTIC! Difference of opinions made for good discussion.

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Posted By jarowdowsky

@benjaebe: I think a lot of the vitriol tends to come because you can see what he could of achieved. I adored elements of Heavy Rain and was shocked by how badly some elements let me down. When you reach to do something different you can expose your failings as much as your achievements.

But wadda I know, Dragon's Lair is still in my top ten ;)

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Posted By SongWriter1987

I would have loved to see Tom McShea on this panel, so he could defend his review score to Justin and Alex. They did a spoilercast on Gamespot, but everyone praised the game and without criticizing anything. I would have enjoyed some conflicting opinions.

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Posted By Dunchad

Any content with any of the McElroy brothers is a-ok with me - especially if it's Justin. Nice one Patrick!

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Posted By chilipeppersman
Avatar image for kanerobot
Edited By KaneRobot

I'll take whatever J-Mack on Giant Bomb I can get.

Hope these become a semi regular thing for interesting/discussion-worthy games, preferably with this same lineup.

Avatar image for fakekisser
Edited By FakeKisser

The one section I replayed was the Homeless section including the fire, because I didn't make it out of the building the first time (I hated the controls...). I felt cheated by not seeing the section after you escape the building.

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Edited By ike7779
Avatar image for heatdrive88
Posted By heatDrive88

I really enjoyed seeing this level of discussion on Giantbomb. Especially since it involved points of views not usually on the site. I already knew I loved Justin McElroy, but Ill be reading more of Kirk Hamilton's work after this.

MORE PLEASE!

One of the first things I read from Kirk Hamilton was his review of L.A. Noire that he wrote for Kill Screen. Maybe one of my favourite pieces of writing in the context of a game review.

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/reviews/review-l-noire/

Avatar image for i_stay_puft
Posted By I_Stay_Puft

Justin was high like a mother fuckin kite. Great way to enter into a Beyond conversation.

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Posted By ch3burashka

Does... does anyone else think that image look like a fat Brett Elston in a took?

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Posted By natureboy46

I couldn't agree more.

I may go and watch some of the alternate scenes and endings on youtube but I don't feel the need to go back and play them - my Jodie made the decisions that she did and that's how her story went. I certainly don't feel like I missed out on anything.

The choice at the end (the 4) felt a little clunky when it popped up but the way I played the game made all of them seem plausible.

My biggest problem with the game (one that was touched upon in the video) was the inability to make Aiden do exactly what I wanted. I'm still not sure why I couldn't possess whoever I wanted.

@benjaebe said:

I realize I'm definitely in the minority, but I really enjoyed Beyond (and most of David Cage's games, for that matter.) I don't understand why people attack him with such vitriol for making games that appeal to a certain audience or have a certain vision - I don't freak out every time someone releases a new Call of Duty or some other genre I don't particularly care for. I'm more than willing to see that his games suffer from plot holes and poor writing in parts, but overall I thought Beyond was really good.

One thing I've noticed in reviews and in people discussing the game is that most don't seem to realize just how much agency they have over the plot because it's not explicitly telegraphed. For instance, I read reviews where people were annoyed over not realizing who started the fire in Homeless, but examining objects in the hospital room afterwards (or not failing that section of the game in the first place) answers that question completely. The scene with Jodie in the bar can either not exist at all (or can be cut short just by leaving) depending on your decisions, and it's a scene that is referenced later on and plays into her characters development. They are decisions that people don't seem to realize they have in the first place, either because they aren't explicitly telegraphed or because it happens so naturally that you think it happens no matter what you do.

Beyond has a lot of problems, but I think people have a tendency to exaggerate them and combine it with their own irrational hate of David Cage. I emailed Quantic Dream once to tell them that I appreciated the kind of games they make, and Cage sent me an email back personally. He told me that he tries to create experiences that are different from other games out there. I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to do that.

Avatar image for benjaebe
Posted By benjaebe

I realize I'm definitely in the minority, but I really enjoyed Beyond (and most of David Cage's games, for that matter.) I don't understand why people attack him with such vitriol for making games that appeal to a certain audience or have a certain vision - I don't freak out every time someone releases a new Call of Duty or some other genre I don't particularly care for. I'm more than willing to see that his games suffer from plot holes and poor writing in parts, but overall I thought Beyond was really good.

One thing I've noticed in reviews and in people discussing the game is that most don't seem to realize just how much agency they have over the plot because it's not explicitly telegraphed. For instance, I read reviews where people were annoyed over not realizing who started the fire in Homeless, but examining objects in the hospital room afterwards (or not failing that section of the game in the first place) answers that question completely. The scene with Jodie in the bar can either not exist at all (or can be cut short just by leaving) depending on your decisions, and it's a scene that is referenced later on and plays into her characters development. They are decisions that people don't seem to realize they have in the first place, either because they aren't explicitly telegraphed or because it happens so naturally that you think it happens no matter what you do.

Beyond has a lot of problems, but I think people have a tendency to exaggerate them and combine it with their own irrational hate of David Cage. I emailed Quantic Dream once to tell them that I appreciated the kind of games they make, and Cage sent me an email back personally. He told me that he tries to create experiences that are different from other games out there. I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to do that.

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Posted By Helios1337

Anyone else approach these games like a bad B-movie? The fun is in the absurdity. Dave Cage games are the Troll 2 of video games.

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Edited By Rafaelfc

I'll echo the duders who said this should be a regular feature.

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Posted By Evercaptor

I haven't watched it, but I'm all for a place for spoiler heavy discussion. Regardless of the quality of the discussion, I feel like the industry is too hung up on the class of shitbags who feel they can veto discussion because of "spoilers" so Please do more of these!

Avatar image for lukenuk3m
Posted By LukeNuk3m

I definitely needed to hear a discussion like this after completing the game this weekend. Thanks, guys.

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Posted By OurSin_360

Indigo prophecy was great, heavy rain was terrible, and Beyond was great.

Avatar image for cashbailey
Posted By CashBailey

So the creators of a massively-over-rated piece of crap like HEAVY RAIN have released another massively over-rated piece of crap.

Imagine that...

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Posted By BisonHero

@tothenines said:

If you think the story was dumb in Heavy Rain it's NOTHING compared to Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit) holy shit that story was dumb.

Yeah, Fahrenheit may be the most dramatic turnaround from "Huh, the first 45 minutes of this are pretty cool" to "JESUS CHRIST THIS ENTIRE ENDING IS COMPLETELY STUPID".

I mean, the hints are there in the first few minutes when main dude is having flashbacks to some guy in a robe, but I was really hoping that there was just some kind of cult using hypnosis to brainwash people or something. When you actually find out who the antagonist(s) are, and what the final confrontation is, it's just so dumb.

And the fact that they poorly write out the girlfriend and Carla's stereotypical black cop friend kind of out of nowhere. You control stereotypical black cop guy multiple times and he has no major effect on the story whatsoever, then he just bails at the end.

Avatar image for jazgalaxy
Posted By JazGalaxy

The thing I dislike about the notification in The Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us is it's phrased in such a way as to make it sound sinister.

"So And So will remember this" sounds like they are going to be stewing over it until it eventually comes back to bite you in the butt. I don't think this is what telltale means by it, so they really need to figure out a way to phrase it better.

Avatar image for uberexplodey
Edited By UberExplodey

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with people, this was a great video and I'd love to see more. Always a treat to see other journos pop onto the site, Justin especially. Thanks Patrick!

Avatar image for billyok
Posted By billyok

Some of these comments are so sad. Kirk and Justin are such good people to have discussing this business. What a rude and sad air of standoffishness this community gives off every time someone from outside the GB crew dare appear in any GB content. Go back to thinking of creepy questions to ask at the next Pax panel if you have nothing constructive to say.

Patrick and the Wolf, thanks for putting this together. Haven't played Beyond yet, but this likely will be the first spoilercast I'll check out once I've done so.

Avatar image for jacksukeru
Posted By jacksukeru

Ha! My guess about the nature/origin of Aidan I made after seeing the quicklook was totally correct, awesome!

Didn't expect some of the other crazy stuff that they mentioned though.

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Posted By Savutano

god damnit kirk, get your shit together >_<

Avatar image for clapmaster
Posted By Clapmaster

Oh man I enjoyed this so much! Kind of made me think about the classic 1up show in a strange way. Would love to see more of these in the future.

Yeah Beyond is crazy as hell. I think if I hadn't gotten so frustrated with the random combat sequences and the parts with Aiden where you fiddle with the thumbsticks I'd give it a recommendation just because I did find a lot of it entertaining.

Avatar image for bkbroiler
Posted By bkbroiler

@brackynews said:

@bkbroiler: I have a feeling you were never informed that Ryan Davis was a smoker too?

I knew he smoked cigars and stuff, I don't recall ever hearing that he was a regular cigarette smoker. That would surprise me I guess, but the thing that shocked me most about finding out Justin is a smoker is, to me, wrongly or not, he presents a pretty clean image. I mean, he's married to a doctor for Christ's sakes!

Avatar image for bkbroiler
Posted By bkbroiler

@carlos707 said:

I really enjoyed seeing this level of discussion on Giantbomb. Especially since it involved points of views not usually on the site. I already knew I loved Justin McElroy, but Ill be reading more of Kirk Hamilton's work after this.

MORE PLEASE!

Agreed, its nice getting perspectives that are out of the norm for Giant Bomb, given that the main site dudes have spent so long together you don't get much variety. Not saying that's a bad thing, by the way.

I mean, I could actually spend time going to other video game websites but that would involve me doing actual work to find stuff I want to read on the internet!

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Edited By MeAuntieNora

Good conversation and great guests! Love to hear perspectives on weird stuff like this.

Avatar image for mezmero
Posted By Mezmero

I don't want to watch this at all. Thought it was going to be the bomb crew finishing the game on camera. I get enough people ruminating over storytelling in video games on a weekly basis to last a life time.

Avatar image for fram
Edited By Fram

This is a great piece of content. Nice to see some different faces/voices popping in.

Having "Let's Spoil" as a regular feature where a rotating cast discusses/dissects contentious and interesting games would be killer. Also, you should get Brad Spoilermaker in on these things!

Avatar image for hwy_61
Posted By hwy_61

@amonkey said:

"Justin McElroy...Kotaku"

It would be hard to put together a more wrenched combination of gaming 'journalism'.

ugh, shut the hell up, dude. This video was great.

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Edited By D_W

This has made me realize that Beyond Two Souls is basically Mindjack via David Cage.

Avatar image for brackynews
Edited By Brackynews

@bkbroiler: I have a feeling you were never informed that Ryan Davis was a smoker too?

@bunkerbuster05 said:

You guys are silly. It's an electronic cigarette.

I don't have time to smoke a whole e-cig. Is there a 140 character version?

@tothenines: Yeah dude, screw Fahrenheit in its dystopian piehole. The moment of the wardrobe change, when it basically turns into the Matrix... GOD what part of a writer's brain says it's ok to staple a plot twist on like that? But still I love David Cage games as basically waiting for the train wreck to happen. Kinda like Shyamalan? ;) I ordered the UK special edition of Heavy Rain and it's a gem.

Avatar image for mormonwarrior
Edited By MormonWarrior

I don't intend to ever play this game, and don't care about spoilers. If anything, learning about fascinating aspects of the game may increase my interest in it.

So will I get anything from this? I'd like to listen to it but I just don't know!

@kentobi That notification in The Walking Dead honestly derailed that episode for me in a bad way because I assumed that meant there was a way you could have Carley/Doug stay alive through it, so I kept reloading my save to see if it would work and got really frustrated. Only time I did that through the whole season, though I appreciate the weird semi-trolling gesture.

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Posted By Slaps2

I can't believe it took me this long to hear Heavy Rain being called racist. To me that was the defining issue with heavy rain and it astounds me to hear from someone else years after it was released. That game was billed as the next step in video game narrative. Whether or not it climbed to the great heights promised is almost beside the point, but some game that conducts it's characters as irresponsibly as Heavy Rain, should not be what we as an industry put as our best foot forward.

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Edited By patrickklepek

@amonkey said:

"Justin McElroy...Kotaku"

It would be hard to put together a more wrenched combination of gaming 'journalism'.

Some of you could have been slightly more inviting to our two guests in these comments. :\

Avatar image for amonkey
Posted By AMonkey

"Justin McElroy...Kotaku"

It would be hard to put together a more wrenched combination of gaming 'journalism'.

Avatar image for xeirus
Posted By Xeirus

..."Justin McElroy, and Kotaku..."

Nope......nope. Sorry Patrick.

I hate Kotaku as much as anyone, but this video was completely fine and enjoyable.

Avatar image for matatat
Edited By MATATAT

I really need to play Heavy Rain again. I really don't remember it being so bad, or perhaps I remember it being absurd but thinking it was funny. I don't really remember. I recently played through Indigo Prophecy and I enjoyed the start to a certain degree. Then it just started getting more and more crazy and the last third is the game just throwing insane shit at you one after the other. It was a drastically different experience for me. I'm wondering if that is just typical David Cage symptoms; the first game you play is pretty interesting but the next one is just too crazy.

Avatar image for cthomer5000
Edited By cthomer5000

@kentobi said:

I know this was just one of your tangents, but the notifications during the Walking Dead were fine with me. In fact, if you turn them off, you miss one of the best gags in the entire series.

When you're outside the RV, you can stand up for Carley, and the "Carley will remember that" prompt pops about 3 seconds before she gets shot. She did not remember that long.

Lol, awesome.

I would love to see an in-depth discussion/story on this. It seemed there is a really story to pursue there in regards to good storytelling. It seemed to be agreed that if it was so seamless they didn't even realize they had made a choice, it was a negative. If it was too obvious they had made a choice, it was a negative. Where is the middle ground? Do a lot of gamers just need to get over the "i need to see everything" mentality?

Avatar image for kentobi
Posted By Kentobi

I know this was just one of your tangents, but the notifications during the Walking Dead were fine with me. In fact, if you turn them off, you miss one of the best gags in the entire series.

When you're outside the RV, you can stand up for Carley, and the "Carley will remember that" prompt pops about 3 seconds before she gets shot. She did not remember that long.

Avatar image for maajin
Posted By Maajin

That was very cool! Hoping for more of this kind of content in the future! And have Justin more often, maybe invite him for a Bombing the A.M.?

Avatar image for carlos707
Posted By carlos707

I really enjoyed seeing this level of discussion on Giantbomb. Especially since it involved points of views not usually on the site. I already knew I loved Justin McElroy, but Ill be reading more of Kirk Hamilton's work after this.

MORE PLEASE!

Avatar image for randomfella21
Posted By randomfella21

My personal GOTY of 2013. Thanks for putting this up.


It comes in around 5th or 4th for me. And I was honestly surprised how much I ended up really liking this game. I definitely recommend that people give it a shot.

Avatar image for cthomer5000
Edited By cthomer5000

@sooty said:

The image for this video is pretty much why I've not played Beyond. Those models are just creepy. Not close to reality creepy, just bad creepy. Page should sue them just for making her look so bad.

They look pretty great overall. Without context that screen shot is misleading. She's supposed to be in pretty f'ing rough shape when that shot is taken. Homeless in the dead of winter.

That being said, the game is a good mixture of "very interesting" and "total trainwreck" as they largely agree on. Definitely an interesting game, but one that has to be recommended with quite a lot of asterisks attached.

Avatar image for jedted
Posted By Jedted

Good SpoilerCast @patrickklepek and @alex, was hoping someone would do this and i enjoyed hearing your thoughts on Beyond.

Speaking of the nonlinear aspect of the story, i was never a fan of how Lost jumped around in time but i kinda liked how it was handled in Beyond. I think maybe because this just focused on one character's history(Jodie) where Lost had a whole cast of character histories that you tried to keep straight in your head.

Of course in Beyond there were some segments that wondered why they placed them so early(other than it's a video game and they're showing you how to play).

Avatar image for cthomer5000
Posted By cthomer5000

So glad you guys did this. Listened to the audio version today and really loved everyones take on the writing, the mechanics, and the sort of anaylsis of player choice in games in general and what you guys seem to want out of it. I love it. GB should do this more often, even if it regularly requires roping in a few outsider writers.