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Posted By deactivated-57f56073a9261

"Pro-Lincoln leanings"

I expected hoped better of you, Gerstmann.

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Posted By Fairbrethees

Casual spoiler 2 mins in. Nice.

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Edited By Dan_CiTi

Happy birthday, Booker!

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Edited By Zevvion

@sear said:

@zevvion: Alright, since you're convinced the game is a narrative gem, I'll copy-paste a few obvious issues from the very beginning that I pointed out elsewhere:

So when you escape with Elizabeth from Monument Island or whatever, you fall down into the water out of the sky next to a collapsing bridge.

  1. There does not appear to actually be a massive lake in the city, and the bridge is not in sight of the beach. How come nobody saw the collapsing bridge? Why is nobody running around screaming? Why is there apparently no collapsed bridge anywhere to be seen? ... I thought you understood it was a flying city. It is not a static city. It can move and it does all the time as told in the Voxophones and you even see it when you first enter the city. It could have been anywhere and while I cannot say for sure, it seems most likely the 'massive lake' you are referring to is just the sea underneath where the city happened to be at that time.
  2. Wouldn't people notice that the gigantic statue that towers over the entire city has now been completely destroyed? You'd think that would sort of interrupt your quiet day at the beach. Yes I know they show it immediately after as you walk by on the boardwalk because it was "shrouded by clouds" but that's just bullshit contrived convenience.
  3. If there is a massive lake, it'd likely be at the bottom of the waterfalls at the beach. How did Booker and Elizabeth get up the waterfalls?
  4. How did Elizabeth get out of that massive fall without getting her clothes ruined? Shouldn't she be almost dead? Isn't a 20 year old girl who has been trapped indoors all her life physically weaker than an ex-veteran who can mow down hundreds of people with no problems whatsoever? Not sure what fall you are referring to, but if you mean the fall into the water; that doesn't destroy your clothes. Furthermore, she actually has rips and tears in her clothes. But again, not sure what fall you are talking about we might misunderstand each other there.
  5. Why does Elizabeth go from freaking out at Booker, to trusting him and treating him like an old friend within about 2 minutes? Again, not sure which instance you are talking about, but he made a good point. She wants to escape, but needs his help to do so.
  6. I get that Elizabeth is excited after getting out of the statue, but you'd think she'd kinda just... not run off like an idiot upon hearing music while Booker is obviously still extremely injured and has just nearly died? Considering almost immediately after she expresses concern for his health and says she will look out for supplies, this makes no sense. She was worried, she went to look for supplies. She was locked up forever, started dancing and forgot about Booker. A dick move for sure, but if you think something like that never happens in real life you might not fully understand how forgetful or selfish allot of people are.
  7. Also, Booker has a full health bar after this incident. Just saying.
  8. Upon being CPR'd by Elizabeth, Booker gets up and is standing next to two people sitting on the beach about 10 feet away. These people say nothing and do nothing. Did they just completely miss the two people falling into the lake, washing ashore, and then also miss the girl giving CPR to the man? Or are they so apathetic they just do not give a shit? And I guess everyone else on the beach also just did not see? Uh, okay? Who says they fell right in their view? If anything that's a thing we can assume is not the case. You can clearly see Booker falling into an open area of water. Not somewhere close to shore. It's more likely they drifted towards shore.
  9. Furthermore, Booker clearly has the distinctive AD mark on his hand. You'd think that news of his rampage throughout the city would have spread, and that seeing a disheveled man who is basically the incarnation of the devil falling out of the sky and washing up on the beach, and then wandering around with a girl half his age and who suspiciously has the same name as the savior baby girl, would set off some alarm bells. Wait, why doesn't Booker just put a glove on, or wrap his hand in a piece of cloth? Is he an idiot? Elizabeth does wrap up his hand. Also, no one knows what he looks like. They just know the AD on his hand is a sign of the False Sheperd. Nothing else. Since he covered that up, no one should be able to identify him without having seen him before.
  10. Why are there absolutely no police on the beach and boardwalk, yet previously we saw the city was completely full of them up to the point where you could reasonably call them a small army? Did Booker already kill them all? Actually, that'd make sense as to why the statue with Elizabeth is completely abandoned when Booker gets there. Because I'm sure the developers really thought about this and it all makes sense, and totally wasn't just a stupid oversight. Because there aren't police around everywhere? There aren't police around everywhere in the opening scene and just after the beach scene there are police again. I don't get what's so strange of not having a cop at a very specific section.
  11. If Elizabeth was trapped in this tower her whole life, why does she behave like some sort of model ideal girlfriend wish fulfillment fantasy, instead of a socially stunted retard? Shouldn't she be a) very anti-social, b) completely lacking any social graces, knowledge of slang or even basic vocal communication, and c) terrified of everything? She wasn't alone all her life, but yeah sure. That seems a likely scenario.
  12. Why isn't her skin completely pasty white, and why isn't she extremely physically weak or even atrophied? Why should she be? She probably moves as much as the next guy in the age we are living in now. Also, I probably do not have to explain how skin color works. I am brown skin but going indoors for the rest of my life will not make me white. I will lose some suncolor, but I won't go 'below' my natural color because that's not how that works.
  13. Why did Comstock imprison her in a massive statue? Isn't that ludicrously impractical and an incredible waste, considering it has laboratories, housing etc.? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the statue as a monument and then house the lab in a building at the base? Yeah I know it's propaganda but since the people don't know the truth anyway, it's not like it, you know, matters whether or not she really is in the tower. I believe he explains it in one of the Voxophones. In any case, it is a statement for him. His statue, his heir.
  14. Elizabeth's big gameplay role in the game is scrounging for stuff to give to Booker. Why do we never actually see her scrounging? How does she find items in the game world even though Booker loots everything he comes across? Are we just supposed to buy that in this hyper-detailed fictional world, there's some stuff we have to abstract out as "gameplay shit"? For 6 years and $200 million they couldn't even afford slightly more effective animation or come up with a better way to justify this mechanic? It's a game. It obviously just gives her items at certain intervals. Mostly because it works in terms of gameplay. The animation is perfect because you do not want to see her looking for stuff while you are about to die. Hit the button and be healed works better. You do not need realistic scenarios for every instance. That actually makes the game less fun. It's the same reason why you do not see a realistic 25 second reload time in... well... any shooter ever. Because it sucks.
  15. Speaking of scrounging, why is there apparently ammo, health packs, guns, and money littered all over the place? It's not like Columbia was in civil war mode yet like Rapture was, so you can't justify it by saying "society was in chaos" which is still a pretty limp hand-wave. So tell me, why the fuck is there invisible supplies everywhere that only Elizabeth can see until she picks them up to give to someone else, and why are these invisible supplies littering every corner of the game world, no matter how inappropriate? Does Elizabeth just have a tear up her ass that gives her whatever she needs at any time she wants? Again, to serve gameplay. Also, what's so strange about finding a desk with two coins on it? Or finding a wallet on a dead body? Or finding food in a food stand?
  16. Vending machines everywhere, even on the beach. Their placement makes no sense (nor does the level design as a whole for that matter, as far as creating a believable and consistent setting goes, but let's ignore that for now), they have infinite supplies, and they sell all sorts of stuff up to and including weapon modifications and goddamn rocket propelled grenades. Why would anyone on the beach need an RPG? These were a problem in the first two BioShock games, which 2K were called out on many times. You're telling me after 6 years of development they couldn't better implement this idea? Are 2K really game design masters? Is Ken Levine a narrative genius? I'll let you decide! But the answer is no.

I don't know man, you are reading waaaaaay too much into stuff. Allot of your complaints make no sense in terms of creating a good game. Pure realism is not fun. It's why most people will not play a flight sim but will play a shooter.

Furthermore, none of the stuff you describe is a plot hole. It barely has to do with the plot, moreso with the presentation of the game. Also, why are you talking about 2K? They didn't develop the game and Levine didn't write the entire story.

Mostly, critics and gamers alike all seem very interested in the story and all seem to believe the story is great.

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Edited By exsiccation

@zevvion: Alright, since you're convinced the game is a narrative gem, I'll copy-paste a few obvious issues from the very beginning that I pointed out elsewhere:

So when you escape with Elizabeth from Monument Island or whatever, you fall down into the water out of the sky next to a collapsing bridge.

  1. There does not appear to actually be a massive lake in the city, and the bridge is not in sight of the beach. How come nobody saw the collapsing bridge? Why is nobody running around screaming? Why is there apparently no collapsed bridge anywhere to be seen?
  2. Wouldn't people notice that the gigantic statue that towers over the entire city has now been completely destroyed? You'd think that would sort of interrupt your quiet day at the beach. Yes I know they show it immediately after as you walk by on the boardwalk because it was "shrouded by clouds" but that's just bullshit contrived convenience.
  3. If there is a massive lake, it'd likely be at the bottom of the waterfalls at the beach. How did Booker and Elizabeth get up the waterfalls?
  4. How did Elizabeth get out of that massive fall without getting her clothes ruined? Shouldn't she be almost dead? Isn't a 20 year old girl who has been trapped indoors all her life physically weaker than an ex-veteran who can mow down hundreds of people with no problems whatsoever?
  5. Why does Elizabeth go from freaking out at Booker, to trusting him and treating him like an old friend within about 2 minutes?
  6. I get that Elizabeth is excited after getting out of the statue, but you'd think she'd kinda just... not run off like an idiot upon hearing music while Booker is obviously still extremely injured and has just nearly died? Considering almost immediately after she expresses concern for his health and says she will look out for supplies, this makes no sense.
  7. Also, Booker has a full health bar after this incident. Just saying.
  8. Upon being CPR'd by Elizabeth, Booker gets up and is standing next to two people sitting on the beach about 10 feet away. These people say nothing and do nothing. Did they just completely miss the two people falling into the lake, washing ashore, and then also miss the girl giving CPR to the man? Or are they so apathetic they just do not give a shit? And I guess everyone else on the beach also just did not see? Uh, okay?
  9. Furthermore, Booker clearly has the distinctive AD mark on his hand. You'd think that news of his rampage throughout the city would have spread, and that seeing a disheveled man who is basically the incarnation of the devil falling out of the sky and washing up on the beach, and then wandering around with a girl half his age and who suspiciously has the same name as the savior baby girl, would set off some alarm bells. Wait, why doesn't Booker just put a glove on, or wrap his hand in a piece of cloth? Is he an idiot?
  10. Why are there absolutely no police on the beach and boardwalk, yet previously we saw the city was completely full of them up to the point where you could reasonably call them a small army? Did Booker already kill them all? Actually, that'd make sense as to why the statue with Elizabeth is completely abandoned when Booker gets there. Because I'm sure the developers really thought about this and it all makes sense, and totally wasn't just a stupid oversight.
  11. If Elizabeth was trapped in this tower her whole life, why does she behave like some sort of model ideal girlfriend wish fulfillment fantasy, instead of a socially stunted retard? Shouldn't she be a) very anti-social, b) completely lacking any social graces, knowledge of slang or even basic vocal communication, and c) terrified of everything?
  12. Why isn't her skin completely pasty white, and why isn't she extremely physically weak or even atrophied?
  13. Why did Comstock imprison her in a massive statue? Isn't that ludicrously impractical and an incredible waste, considering it has laboratories, housing etc.? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the statue as a monument and then house the lab in a building at the base? Yeah I know it's propaganda but since the people don't know the truth anyway, it's not like it, you know, matters whether or not she really is in the tower.
  14. Elizabeth's big gameplay role in the game is scrounging for stuff to give to Booker. Why do we never actually see her scrounging? How does she find items in the game world even though Booker loots everything he comes across? Are we just supposed to buy that in this hyper-detailed fictional world, there's some stuff we have to abstract out as "gameplay shit"? For 6 years and $200 million they couldn't even afford slightly more effective animation or come up with a better way to justify this mechanic?
  15. Speaking of scrounging, why is there apparently ammo, health packs, guns, and money littered all over the place? It's not like Columbia was in civil war mode yet like Rapture was, so you can't justify it by saying "society was in chaos" which is still a pretty limp hand-wave. So tell me, why the fuck is there invisible supplies everywhere that only Elizabeth can see until she picks them up to give to someone else, and why are these invisible supplies littering every corner of the game world, no matter how inappropriate? Does Elizabeth just have a tear up her ass that gives her whatever she needs at any time she wants?
  16. Vending machines everywhere, even on the beach. Their placement makes no sense (nor does the level design as a whole for that matter, as far as creating a believable and consistent setting goes, but let's ignore that for now), they have infinite supplies, and they sell all sorts of stuff up to and including weapon modifications and goddamn rocket propelled grenades. Why would anyone on the beach need an RPG? These were a problem in the first two BioShock games, which 2K were called out on many times. You're telling me after 6 years of development they couldn't better implement this idea? Are 2K really game design masters? Is Ken Levine a narrative genius? I'll let you decide! But the answer is no.
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Posted By n0nametaz

@fredddi43: I It's a bonus you get when you buy the season pass.

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Posted By JasonR86

Having just finished it I feel bad for @jeff having to talk around the story so much. Especially at the start. I would have been stuttering a bunch too dude.

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Edited By Zevvion

@sear said:

This game is a gigantic overrated turd. They made Halo (2 weapons, fancy grenades, recharging shield) and set it in Disney World. The plot has so many holes, character inconsistencies and other issues scene to scene it's flat out hilarious and insulting to see people treating it as some sort of narrative triumph. Six years and $200 million and this is what we get? A shittier Half-Life 2 with more bloom? Fuck the world.

I didn't get every single detail about the story at first either, which made me question it. It's a shame there are once again audio tapes in the form of Voxophones in this game, because I collected about half and it appears details make the story whole in those tapes.

I didn't know things that is explained there that makes me completely understand it now. Truthfully, Infinite probably has one of the best storylines in a videogame I have ever played. In any case, I'm very impressed by the way the story is told, Voxophones not counting. I still think that's kind of a crap decision. It works as a storytelling device, but if I don't find key ones, it makes some things unclear.

Anyway, my point is that there are no plotholes. It's just you not fully understanding the story. There are no character inconsistencies and yes, it really is a narrative gem. You don't see stuff like this in videogames. Perhaps you see similar storylines, but the way it's told is almost brilliant.

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Posted By ma_rc_01

@taka said:

"La Revanche du Jedi" ...

French Star Wars is the best Star Wars

"Luke, je suis ton père, hon-hon-hon!"

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Posted By GasparNolasco

The main problem I had with the story was the twist depended on an unreliable narrator, which is kinda bad storywriting. But it's a nice twist anyway, I liked the ride.

I really hope those guys try for something new next time though (a new IP), I can see how a 3rd chapter in this Franchise could bring the house crumbling down.

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Posted By saidaioujou

@sear said:

This game is a gigantic overrated turd. They made Halo (2 weapons, fancy grenades, recharging shield) and set it in Disney World. The plot has so many holes, character inconsistencies and other issues scene to scene it's flat out hilarious and insulting to see people treating it as some sort of narrative triumph. Six years and $200 million and this is what we get? A shittier Half-Life 2 with more bloom? Fuck the world.

Elaborate. By that I mean references. Oh, I'm not glorifying the game by the way, I just don't understand where the Disney World comparison comes from and modern FPS tropes suddenly being an issue when they're in most games. And Half-Life 2 has nothing to do with this.

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Posted By Paindamnation

My mind is so fucked right now....

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Edited By RichieJohn

I think nearly all games with any combat should have less combat and harder combat.

Unless combat is the sole focus then fill her up but make it good.

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Edited By chrisbob
@brianp said:

Jeff's complaint here, and on the podcast, about them not going after Elizabeth doesn't really make sense. They aren't after her, they are after you and want to get her back unharmed. Of course they wouldn't be bothering with her unless they took care of you first. The enemies have absolutely no reason to engage her with hostility if she is not engaging them.

I don't want to give away plot stuff, but after a certain point, that logic really falls apart. It's immersion breaking but so is a lot of stuff in the game and this the better design choice if the other option was to have a 12 hour escort mission.

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Posted By NaDannMaGoGo

Holy shit, I can't believe how easy the standard difficulty mode seems to be. Even if he got some DLC goodies or so. I was playing on hard and it was overall actually decently challenging and at times rather frustrating.

This however... he barely loses any health and takes out e.g. the Fireman guys head to head emptying maybe a clip of his machine gun @_@

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Posted By chilipeppersman

@joshthebear: nah no spoilers, they said that in the beginning of the quick look. your all good!

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Edited By TwoLines

@veektarius said:

Normal looks easy.

He's using the golden gun you get from completing the game. Same goes with the clothes and the upgrades, those ain't no pre-order bonuses Jeff, they gave you all this stuff cause you Infinited the Bioshocks.

My bad, you get all of that from completeing the game OR from having the earlybird DLC thing. Ugh. That sucks.

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Posted By Veektarius

Normal looks easy.

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Edited By Kosayn

Why can't we just always have the bathroom mirrors function, or else remove the pointless bathrooms? Dead Island had basically the same gray unreflecting slabs this game does. I certainly don't want to lump two very different games together over a small thing like this, but first impressions matter. Surely AAA games should be able to leave this problem behind at some point.

http://www.giantbomb.com/functional-mirrors/3015-4618/

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Posted By BrianP

Jeff's complaint here, and on the podcast, about them not going after Elizabeth doesn't really make sense. They aren't after her, they are after you and want to get her back unharmed. Of course they wouldn't be bothering with her unless they took care of you first. The enemies have absolutely no reason to engage her with hostility if she is not engaging them.

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Posted By BrianP

"Do you get anything extra from doing that?"

"Yeah...I do"

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Edited By Rhaknar

@sabata said:

I like how Jeff goes for the period blood first.

I noticed that, along with the awkward silence by both him and Ryan. Kinda struck me when I saw it myself, not in a imature way, more in a " whoa is that what I think it is, in a videogame", had to look up what Menarche meant to make sure. I had the same feeling with the straight up racism too.

I fucking loved the game, probably my game of the generation along with Dark Souls

edit: also, lol at after a execution ryan asks "do you get anything extra from that or is..." and jeff imediatly replies "yeah, yeah I do" :P

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Edited By Taka

"La Revanche du Jedi" ...

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Posted By Duffyside

Man, I really need to turn my brightness up. Don't know why I trusted the configuration to begin with -- I always like my games at least two notches brighter.

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Edited By Zeik

Is it possible to turn on damage text in the console version? I finished the game and I don't remember it being an option, but maybe I missed something.

Edit: Nevermind. Figured it out.

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Posted By Castiel

I have been playing this game all day and it's pretty awesome. Love the look, setting and story so far. Also kinda weird playing a game with themes such as religion and racism.

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Edited By Sabata

I like how Jeff goes for the period blood first.

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Posted By chilibean_3

Maybe it's because I took my time but I got a lot more ambient dialogue out of Booker.

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Edited By JesterPC238

@insanepenguin: Yup, I was not a big fan of the combat in Bioshock 1, I love the concept of powers and weapons, but the controls didn't feel natural to me. Infinite in general has much more responsive and snappy combat to begin with, and switching the controller setup around only helps to drive that home for me.

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Posted By InsanePenguin

I HIGHLY recommend switching the controls to "marksman" in the controller menu. It remaps the ironsights button to L1/LT, power usage to L2/LB, power switch to R2/RB, weapon switch to Triangle/Y and melee to R3. I think it makes the combat feel much snappier to be able to bring up the ironsights on the fly and gives the combat that great "snap and pop" feeling that other console shooters have.

Thanks for the info, my biggest problem with Bioshock, and the few hours of Infinite I've gotten to play so far, have been with the dual-wield systems. It just feels weird to me. I bet this will help.

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Posted By JesterPC238

I HIGHLY recommend switching the controls to "marksman" in the controller menu. It remaps the ironsights button to L1/LT, power usage to L2/LB, power switch to R2/RB, weapon switch to Triangle/Y and melee to R3. I think it makes the combat feel much snappier to be able to bring up the ironsights on the fly and gives the combat that great "snap and pop" feeling that other console shooters have.

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Posted By fatalbanana

@p00rdevil: yeah maybe... you should try playing it, that vibe will quickly leave you. Infinite is a beast all its own... nothing quite like it. Besides maybe the first Bioshock but only mechanically.

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Posted By tompepper

Headshotting guys also gives a little piano response, so when I'm playing it pretty much sounds like the pianist is having a seizure B]

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Edited By MeatSim

This will tide me over until my copy arrives in the mail today.

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Posted By sixpin

@olu said:

Fuck, i missed that key

I'm not entirely sure how the saves work in this game but you can replay previous areas and maybe the permanent changes you make stay with the character you're playing. There's no way Jeff could have that many meter upgrades unlocked that early in the game, right? So he's playing the character he finished the game with.

I haven't tried going back for an infusion I missed so I don't know if this will work.

Nah, the pre-order stuff unlocks a bunch of stat upgrades. I dumped all mine into shields. I think I had something like 8 points.

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Edited By foxmulder

This is probably the only first week $60 purchase I'll get this year...besides Saints Row!

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Posted By blacklab

I think that Levine's games are so popular because in a way, they are very intelligently put together and have interesting ideas, but they don't make you feel stupid. Lots of games are wildly difficult or have complex ideas and puzzles, but they make the player feel like an idiot because perhaps you don't totally get it at first. Levine's games have well realized, complex concepts, but they are presented in such a way that the player understands what they are and how they affect the game world/play. Because that's more fun.

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Edited By p00rdevil

Cool looking game if you are ready for a first person shooter and a story. Am I the only one who gets a heavy Half Life vibe off of this?

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Posted By dropabombonit

I have only played 5 hours on PS3 and I have been loving it so far. Although the PC version looks so much better than the PS3/360 version but I guess that is to be expected at this stage in the generation

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Edited By downloaded

Was this filmed pre- or post-breastmilk?

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Posted By BasketSnake

Columbia is actually inside the core of the earth. That's speculation on my part so I can't wait to see what happens. I'm about an hour in.

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Edited By Zurv
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Very HQ. drop that xbox/ps3 and snag yourself a PC to play this one :)

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Posted By Innovacious

I played and beat the game on 1999 mode already (~12 hours, took my time to look at things, almost all collectables). To me it seemed not really that hard, but looking at this footage from a standard difficulty, I can see where the "difficulty" lies better now. Jeff would get ripped apart playing the way he is in 1999 mode, and I'm only 3 mins into the video. Just standing in the open and shooting dudes is a good way to get killed, and those turrets hit so much harder.

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Posted By ThreeRoneC

SPOILER! If you hit that soap so hard, sparks will fly out!

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Posted By yyZiggurat

@olu said:

Fuck, i missed that key

I'm not entirely sure how the saves work in this game but you can replay previous areas and maybe the permanent changes you make stay with the character you're playing. There's no way Jeff could have that many meter upgrades unlocked that early in the game, right? So he's playing the character he finished the game with.

I haven't tried going back for an infusion I missed so I don't know if this will work.

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Posted By InternetDetective

i just wanted to go to paris