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    Xbox Live is Microsoft's online gaming service.

    The Problem With Xbox LIVE and What You Can Do To Fix It

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    Brackynews

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    #51  Edited By Brackynews
    @ChrisTaran:  I'm in much the same boat.  I have a grand total of 2 trusted friends that play video games on a console. One owns a PS3, and the other a Wii. They would not play 360 if I gave them one. My 360 experiences are entirely based on playing with people I have never met.  To make that tolerable, I have relied on online communities, and luck of the draw when matchmaking.  This is one of the best arguments why PC gaming is more mature.  Clans, private servers, etc. all have very real benefits to finding and playing with decent folks all over the globe.
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    TheGreatGuero

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    #52  Edited By TheGreatGuero

    Well, apparently I've been taking the right steps all along. YAY! There's just not enough TheGreatGuero's and Gamer_152's in the world. What a shame! 
     
    Anyway, uhh... I'm going to bring up another issue. One problem with playing online is that it can be difficult to tell who it is that's yelling or saying racist comments or whatever. If a lot of people keep talking at once, you really have no way of telling, unless you want to try muting suspected culprits one by one until the hate speech stops. While that can work, it's really not ideal, since you know, you're trying to play a game, and shouldn't have to resort to that. I wish there was an easier way of singling them out. Too many times, even in pre-game lobbies, I'm listening to some idiot, or several, running their mouth, and with multiple people talking, I'm unable to pinpoint which one is causing the problem, and I don't want to report an innocent person.
     
    Also, sometimes I can identify who the jerk is, but am unable to report them before the game starts, and then by the time the game is finished so I can report them, I forget who it was. It does help if I mute them during the game, then I can check out my list of recently played players and see which one I muted, and from there I can report him later, but still...  the execution seems messy to me. The system could be better. I fear that either too many people don't really care enough to go through the effort or reporting users, or maybe they just don't know they can.

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    gamer_152

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    #53  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
    @Brackynews: I dunno, I felt that in JJ's statement about the parents not teaching their kids right and wrong it was implied that they were being asshats. Sometimes I think the issue is that the parents just aren't raising their children responsibly and sometimes I think it's just that the parents are uninformed of what online communication over a service like Xbox LIVE is really like. They're both major issues although the former is far more infuriating than the latter. I am sorry to hear that your online experiences have been soured by people misusing online gaming services.
     
    @TheGreatGuero: Sadly there just aren't enough people reporting the idiots out there. I think that the importance of reporting people could be made clearer, but on the whole it seems to be that as long as people have a system of muting people they don't want to hear, they don't care about how people acting like jackasses on online services will have an impact on others, influence things on a larger scale, or even affect them negatively in the long-term. You have technologies like Bungie's Banhammer where a large number of griefers can be identified and banned by an automated system, but we're a long way away from a time where all types of violators can be dealt with without human input.
     
    I have been thinking that offering players some kind of reward in exchange for identifying players who turn out to be genuinely violating the CoC, could greatly encourage people to report abusers of XBL, but then you'd have the issue of people reporting people for the most minor offences in the hopes of gaining some reward. Logically you'd have to add some kind of countermeasure to the system to stop people doing that, but as far as I can see that would either mean punishing people in some way for making false reports, or employing a considerable number of XBL moderators to deal with a flood of false reports. Microsoft certainly aren't going to do the latter and the former is potentially unfair on those genuinely trying to make XBL a better place, and has the potential to scare people away from filing reports.
     
    I agree with you that it can be hard to tell who is breaking the rules sometimes, especially when it comes to people abusing voice communications. Honestly I can't think of any system off of the top of my head that would really solve that problem but if you have some ideas I'd love to hear them. Stay cool.
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    time allen

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    #54  Edited By time allen

    lol the amount of thought that is going into this has been completely overshot. i don't want to be that guy, but the mute player function is there to mute players that annoy you. a lot of people have xbox 360s. you're going to run into assholes, it's inevitable. it's not that much bother to mute a few players here and there. 
     
    geez.

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    gamer_152

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    #55  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
    @Toms115:  I'm aware of the various mute functions on Xbox LIVE and I understand how they work, but as I was trying to say in my 'Why Should You Care?' section I believe people being allowed to misuse online services has a far wider effect than just annoying a few people in the short term. People being dicks on XBL encourages other people to be dicks, and when these people are not punished for harassing other people it sends out the message that their behaviour is acceptable, and that kind of behaviour is going to carry over into other gaming communities, other online interactions, and in some cases real-life interactions (up to a point).
     
    This kind of online behaviour within gaming communities also makes them far less approachable and only perpetuates negative stereotypes about games enthusiasts. This can potentially scare off people who would otherwise become players of traditional games and so is somewhat of a factor in limiting the expansion of the games industry. Furthermore I don't believe new users to these kinds of services should be free to harass other people anyway. When we see someone acting like a jackass online we can either do something about it or sit back and say "I'm going to let this person continue to act like a jackass to every other player they come across and only worry about myself in the short-term". I believe the latter is far too prominent of an attitude.
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    time allen

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    #56  Edited By time allen
    @Gamer_152: there's a continuous stream of new users for every modern gaming platform every year. good luck moderating that. while i definitely agree that continuous harassment should be dealt with, you can't punish someone just because they've annoyed you or hurt your feelings.
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    gamer_152

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    #57  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
    @Toms115: I'm not saying the moderation of these large-scale online services isn't a big job, and at no point was I suggesting that moderation should be based on how the things people say make me feel. I'm saying that when people see other people acting like dicks it's going to be beneficial for people in general, especially those not abusing online services, if they report those abusers and don't just worry about whether other people are causing trouble for them, personally, in the short-term.
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    Enigma777

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    #58  Edited By Enigma777

    To be honest, I think they're funny... Thus I can't say I see the problem. Just don't take what people say so seriously, especially on the internet. It will save you a lot of grief.

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    NinjaDuckie

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    #59  Edited By NinjaDuckie

    I'll be honest dude; the only time I've really spent on Live has been playing games with close friends (as you well know), and that was a bit of Halo 3 and some CoD: WaW.  I tend to shy away from randomly-selected multiplayer console gaming because all the servers are hosted elsewhere, and it's not like on the PC where you can choose which server you're joining, or just call an admin over IRC when there's a troublemaker and get people kicked. 
     
    That said, I had my first foray into solo, randomly-selected Splinter Cell Conviction multiplayer just this week and was paired with someone who actually knew what teamwork was and how to use silenced weapons, as opposed to the jerk-faced idiot I expected carrying a Deagle and an AK.  Prior to that the only time I had on Live was with you guys, playing against a random team from the US, and they were quite good sports as well.  So for the moment,  I can't really say anything about my personal experience on Live being sucky at all. 
     
    However, your philosophy does transfer neatly onto online flash games (using Kongregate as an example here); whenever we get a troll in the room, if there's no moderator online the regulars mass mute and usually at least one of us reports the offender.  The moderators (when they're on, and not playing Runescape or Minecraft) are usually swift and just.  This is probably what Live is lacking - realtime moderators.  But you'd have to be crazy to actively sign up for a job that involved looking for troublemakers on videogames... wouldn't you?

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    gamer_152

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    #60  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
    @Enigma777:  The people who abuse Xbox LIVE are funny, therefore their behaviour can't be detrimental to games enthusiasts? I'm afraid I don't follow your train of thought. If I do hear some jackass spouting obscenities down his headset I never really take what they're saying to heart, but that doesn't mean I don't think their behaviour has negative implications.
     
    @NinjaDuckie: It's been good to hear that your experiences on Xbox LIVE so far have been all okay. A lot of the games on XBL get hosted overseas but with games like Halo you can make it so that you are more likely to connect to servers geographically closer to you and as long as you have a reasonable connection lag isn't usually an issue with hosts that are abroad.
     
    It's good to hear the moderators on Kongregate do a good job but Xbox LIVE moderation is a slightly different business. If there's an issue on Microsoft's end it's probably under-staffing, and I doubt it's due to people not wanting the job. Even if it was only as a moderator I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would definitely be after a job at Microsoft. As they operate now I don't think it's really a case of there being real-time moderators or not, I think it's just that some moderation takes longer than others. If it's a case of people sending others offensive text communication then I imagine that's the kind of thing that could be sorted out very quickly, but with reports of things like misuse of the voice communication, which is one of the biggest problems on Xbox LIVE, it's not really a case of reading some text and ticking some boxes, it does require them to do proper investigations, something which I imagine is a rather lengthy process and just can't be done in real-time.
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    Enigma777

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    #61  Edited By Enigma777
    @Gamer_152: Sticks and stones. If you let someone else impact your "enthusiast gaming" no matter how slight, then you're taking them too seriously. 
     
    Just embrace your inner sailor and have a chuckle. I've learned a lot of new (and some rather creative) insults from XBL. Hell 2 days ago i played a match with some guy in Reach who had the best Duke Nukem impressions I've ever heard. I could not stop laughing for the entire match . 
     
    To try and repress the youthful bashfulness of the XBL community is just wrong imo. This is a America goddammit! Land of the free and all that jazz...
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    gamer_152

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    #62  Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
    @Enigma777: I, like you, believe that people shouldn't be allowed to impact gaming, but it wouldn't matter how much I laughed at people they'd still make the community look bad, still spread poor manners among the younger users of Xbox LIVE, and still get the message that abusive behaviour is okay. I'm not adversed to having a laugh but when people are spouting verbal abuse down their headsets or harassing people I don't think it's something we should laugh at. I'm all for free speech but I believe there's a considerable difference between "youthful bashfulness" and the abuse, discrimination, and corruption of children that happens on Xbox LIVE. I wish the answer to all things was just to sit back and chill out but I believe if we see people abusing these online services and send them the message that it's acceptable, we're being irresponsible and it's going to have far-reaching consequences.

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