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    Xbox Live is Microsoft's online gaming service.

    Warning: Xbox Live's new TOS follows EA and PSN

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    DocHaus

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    Edited By DocHaus

    Hey there folks. You might not have seen this when (if?) you were updating your Xbox 360 last night, but if you did it successfully, they included a new Terms of Service agreement. But buried within Section 18 of that agreement is a clause similar to that of EA and PSN that waives your right to join a class-action lawsuit and forces all disputes into arbitration if you live in the US.

    Some relevant quotes from that section, though I suggest you read the whole thing (or at least the whole section if your eyes are about to glaze over):

    18.1.6. CLASS ACTION WAIVER. YOU AND MICROSOFT AGREE THAT ANY PROCEED­INGS TO RESOLVE OR LITIGATE ANY DISPUTE, WHETHER IN ARBITRATION, IN COURT, OR OTHERWISE, WILL BE CONDUCTED SOLELY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, AND THAT NEITHER YOU NOR MICROSOFT WILL SEEK TO HAVE ANY DISPUTE HEARD AS A CLASS ACTION, A REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, A COLLECTIVE ACTION, A PRIVATE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ACTION, OR IN ANY PROCEEDING IN WHICH YOU OR MICROSOFT ACTS OR PROPOSES TO ACT IN A REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY. YOU AND MICROSOFT FURTHER AGREE THAT NO ARBITRATION OR PROCEEDING WILL BE JOINED, CONSOLIDATED, OR COMBINED WITH ANOTHER ARBITRATION OR PROCEEDING WITHOUT THE PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT OF YOU, MICROSOFT, AND ALL PARTIES TO ANY SUCH ARBITRATION OR PROECCEDING.

    [note: that last misspelled word is taken verbatim from the official website]

    On top of that, they include a trigger mechanism for what will happen if this whole "preemptively stop you from joining a lawsuit" thing ever becomes invalidated.

    18.1.10. IF CLASS ACTION WAIVER ILLEGAL OR UNENFORCEABLE. If the class action waiver (which includes a waiver of private attorney-general actions) in Section 18.1.6 is found to be illegal or unenforceable as to all or some parts of a Dispute, whether by judicial, legislative, or other action, then Section 18.1 and its subsections will not apply to those parts. Instead, those parts of the Dispute will be severed and proceed in a court of law, with the remaining parts proceeding in arbitration. The definition of "Dispute" in Section 18.1.1 will still apply to this contract. You and Microsoft irrevocably consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the state or federal courts in King County, Washington, USA, for all proceedings in court under this Section 18.1.10.

    18.1.11. YOUR RIGHT TO REJECT CHANGES TO ARBITRATION AGREEMENT. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this contract, Microsoft agrees that if it makes any change to Section 18.1 (other than a change to the notice address in Section 18.1.3) while you are authorized to use the Service, you may reject the change by sending us written notice within 30 days of the change by U.S. Mail to the address in Section 18.1.3. By rejecting the change, you agree that you will informally negotiate and arbitrate any Dispute between us in accordance with the most recent version of Section 18.1 before the change you rejected.

    18.1.12. SEVERABILITY. If any provision of Section 18.1 and its subsections, other than Section 18.1.6 (class action waiver), is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that provision will be severed from Section 18.1, but the remainder of Section 18.1 will remain in full force and effect. Section 18.1.10 says what happens if Section 18.1.6 (class action waiver) is found to be illegal or unenforceable.

    18.1.11 gives you the "opt-out" option discussed before, as long as you mail it within 30 days to Microsoft Corporation, ATTN: LCA ARBITRATION, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399, give them your name/address and XBL/GFWL gamertag and tell them you wish to opt-out of this arbitration clause.

    Caveat emptor, folks.

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    DocHaus

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    #1  Edited By DocHaus

    Hey there folks. You might not have seen this when (if?) you were updating your Xbox 360 last night, but if you did it successfully, they included a new Terms of Service agreement. But buried within Section 18 of that agreement is a clause similar to that of EA and PSN that waives your right to join a class-action lawsuit and forces all disputes into arbitration if you live in the US.

    Some relevant quotes from that section, though I suggest you read the whole thing (or at least the whole section if your eyes are about to glaze over):

    18.1.6. CLASS ACTION WAIVER. YOU AND MICROSOFT AGREE THAT ANY PROCEED­INGS TO RESOLVE OR LITIGATE ANY DISPUTE, WHETHER IN ARBITRATION, IN COURT, OR OTHERWISE, WILL BE CONDUCTED SOLELY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, AND THAT NEITHER YOU NOR MICROSOFT WILL SEEK TO HAVE ANY DISPUTE HEARD AS A CLASS ACTION, A REPRESENTATIVE ACTION, A COLLECTIVE ACTION, A PRIVATE ATTORNEY-GENERAL ACTION, OR IN ANY PROCEEDING IN WHICH YOU OR MICROSOFT ACTS OR PROPOSES TO ACT IN A REPRESENTATIVE CAPACITY. YOU AND MICROSOFT FURTHER AGREE THAT NO ARBITRATION OR PROCEEDING WILL BE JOINED, CONSOLIDATED, OR COMBINED WITH ANOTHER ARBITRATION OR PROCEEDING WITHOUT THE PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT OF YOU, MICROSOFT, AND ALL PARTIES TO ANY SUCH ARBITRATION OR PROECCEDING.

    [note: that last misspelled word is taken verbatim from the official website]

    On top of that, they include a trigger mechanism for what will happen if this whole "preemptively stop you from joining a lawsuit" thing ever becomes invalidated.

    18.1.10. IF CLASS ACTION WAIVER ILLEGAL OR UNENFORCEABLE. If the class action waiver (which includes a waiver of private attorney-general actions) in Section 18.1.6 is found to be illegal or unenforceable as to all or some parts of a Dispute, whether by judicial, legislative, or other action, then Section 18.1 and its subsections will not apply to those parts. Instead, those parts of the Dispute will be severed and proceed in a court of law, with the remaining parts proceeding in arbitration. The definition of "Dispute" in Section 18.1.1 will still apply to this contract. You and Microsoft irrevocably consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the state or federal courts in King County, Washington, USA, for all proceedings in court under this Section 18.1.10.

    18.1.11. YOUR RIGHT TO REJECT CHANGES TO ARBITRATION AGREEMENT. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this contract, Microsoft agrees that if it makes any change to Section 18.1 (other than a change to the notice address in Section 18.1.3) while you are authorized to use the Service, you may reject the change by sending us written notice within 30 days of the change by U.S. Mail to the address in Section 18.1.3. By rejecting the change, you agree that you will informally negotiate and arbitrate any Dispute between us in accordance with the most recent version of Section 18.1 before the change you rejected.

    18.1.12. SEVERABILITY. If any provision of Section 18.1 and its subsections, other than Section 18.1.6 (class action waiver), is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that provision will be severed from Section 18.1, but the remainder of Section 18.1 will remain in full force and effect. Section 18.1.10 says what happens if Section 18.1.6 (class action waiver) is found to be illegal or unenforceable.

    18.1.11 gives you the "opt-out" option discussed before, as long as you mail it within 30 days to Microsoft Corporation, ATTN: LCA ARBITRATION, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399, give them your name/address and XBL/GFWL gamertag and tell them you wish to opt-out of this arbitration clause.

    Caveat emptor, folks.

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    nintendoeats

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    #2  Edited By nintendoeats

    FFS.

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    MideonNViscera

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    #3  Edited By MideonNViscera

    Well of course.

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    MikkaQ

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    #4  Edited By MikkaQ

    I'm pretty sure you can't legally waive those rights in the first place as much as you can sign yourself off as a slave.

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    RE_Player1

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    #5  Edited By RE_Player1

    Have any of the guys on the site brought this up yet? They are usually on top of these things like, as you said, PSN and EA.

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    SomeJerk

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    #6  Edited By SomeJerk

    Na msavo, it's Microsoft, they can only bash EA and Sony in articles

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    Jeffsekai

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    #7  Edited By Jeffsekai

    Steam does the same thing.

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    AlexW00d

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    #8  Edited By AlexW00d

    Welcome to life.

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    Video_Game_King

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    #9  Edited By Video_Game_King
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    MattyFTM

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    #10  Edited By MattyFTM  Moderator

    @Jeffsekai said:

    Steam does the same thing.

    No they don't. The Steam Subscriber Agreement makes no mention of class action lawsuits, nor any waiving of rights.

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    Jeffsekai

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    #11  Edited By Jeffsekai

    @MattyFTM said:

    @Jeffsekai said:

    Steam does the same thing.

    No they don't. The Steam Subscriber Agreement makes no mention of class action lawsuits, nor any waiving of rights.

    They tell you if you have any problem with Steam in a legal sense you can stop using Steam. My bad.

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    Afroman269

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    #12  Edited By Afroman269

    What's the website that sent out those letters for you to Sony and EA? Maybe they will do this for Microsoft too.

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    time allen

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    #13  Edited By time allen

    is this just the US or what?

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    Nightmare22m

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    #14  Edited By Nightmare22m

    Glad to see someone reporting it, I tipped off a couple of websites before coming here. Ill wait a day or two to see if the website mentioned by Afroman does something, if not I guess Ill have to make a trip to the post office.

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    BraveToaster

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    #15  Edited By BraveToaster

    @SomeJerk said:

    Na msavo, it's Microsoft, they can only bash EA and Sony in articles

    Here we go again with this crap.

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    DocHaus

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    #16  Edited By DocHaus

    Well, at least we have the option to-

    Microsoft tells us you in fact cannot opt out of the agreement, and must sign on the dotted line to continue using Xbox Live. The terminology in the ToS used to "opt out" applies only to future changes made after this agreement, they say, not to this agreement itself.

    ...fuck.

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    Sooty

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    #17  Edited By Sooty

    You just stole Patrick's idea for an article.

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    DocHaus

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    #18  Edited By DocHaus

    @Sooty: Actually, this blog was launched hours before anyone on GB mentioned it. Thanks for noticing!

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    Sooty

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    #19  Edited By Sooty

    @DocHaus said:

    @Sooty: Actually, this blog was launched hours before anyone on GB mentioned it. Thanks for noticing!

    I said "Patrick's idea for an article" not "Patrick's article" as in I was implying Patrick would have made an article about this, but turns out he did anyway despite this existing.

    There's a difference. Thanks for noticing!

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    DocHaus

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    #20  Edited By DocHaus

    @Sooty said:

    @DocHaus said:

    @Sooty: Actually, this blog was launched hours before anyone on GB mentioned it. Thanks for noticing!

    I said "Patrick's idea for an article" not "Patrick's article" as in I was implying Patrick would have made an article about this, but turns out he did anyway despite this existing.

    There's a difference. Thanks for noticing!

    Ah, my bad.

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    Sooty

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    #21  Edited By Sooty

    @DocHaus said:

    @Sooty said:

    @DocHaus said:

    @Sooty: Actually, this blog was launched hours before anyone on GB mentioned it. Thanks for noticing!

    I said "Patrick's idea for an article" not "Patrick's article" as in I was implying Patrick would have made an article about this, but turns out he did anyway despite this existing.

    There's a difference. Thanks for noticing!

    Ah, my bad.

    Go back to your home on Whore Island!

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    DocHaus

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    #23  Edited By DocHaus
    No Caption Provided

    @Sooty:

    Sorry, I was just picturing Whore Island.

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    deactivated-5b43dadb9061b

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