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    The Xbox One is Microsoft's third video game console. It was released on November 22nd 2013 in 13 countries.

    What do you think of Microsoft's Play Anywhere bet?

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    WynnDuffy

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    Edited By WynnDuffy

    Poll What do you think of Microsoft's Play Anywhere bet? (176 votes)

    Good for consumers, bad for Microsoft 19%
    Good all around 70%
    Other 2%
    Show me the results 9%

    Play Anywhere has given many people with mid to high end PCs little reason to buy an Xbox One. I think this is a risky move on their part for the following reasons:

    1. I now have no incentive to buy their console hardware or peripherals
    2. No longer requiring an Xbox One S/X for their exclusives means they will only get a handful of software sales from me instead of software+console+peripherals
    3. If I want a box under the TV to access my Play Anywhere library, I would just use my PC with a Steam Link, wireless HDMI or a standard cable, which at that point gives me access to everything on a PC, not just their selection of games (not to mention, is hundreds of dollars cheaper)

    What do you think? I admire Play Anywhere for being consumer friendly and for Microsoft finally bringing together their platforms but to me it makes buying an Xbox One completely illogical now. They have for me, made Sony and Nintendo's platforms much more compelling as companions to my PC.

    I understand the price argument, but I'm always going to have a high end PC as I do more than just game with that power. I would rather spend extra on a computer because I get so much more use out of a PC than a console, that by and large, is only for playing games on. Despite higher entry costs, a PC is a better value proposition in my opinion.

    I mean, we're talking $500 for an Xbox One X, yet a PC will now have Xbox "exclusives", so I suppose it's up to you to decide if it's worth paying extra for having access to even better visuals, years and years of third party peripherals, limitless media support, a massive game library and having the ability to do video editing, 3D rendering, photoshop, Twitch streaming, etc.

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    mems1224

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    I think people underestimate how many people don't want to deal with PCs when it comes to gaming. I don't see how its bad for anyone. I have a decent PC that can run most games reasonably well, I also have an Xbox One and PS4. I've realized that I spend way more time on my Xbox than any other system because I like playing games from the comfort of my recliner which isn't easy to do with my PC. I also just love having one device that does most things.

    Phil even said in his interview with Jeff that consoles don't make them any money, its all about the software. Im sure they're thrilled about selling you software and getting you on Windows 10 without having to sell you a console. MS is giving people options to play shit where they want to play it and I can't really complain about that. Now they just need to fix the God awful Windows Store.

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    WynnDuffy

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    #2  Edited By WynnDuffy

    @mems1224 said:

    Phil even said in his interview with Jeff that consoles don't make them any money, its all about the software. Im sure they're thrilled about selling you software and getting you on Windows 10 without having to sell you a console. MS is giving people options to play shit where they want to play it and I can't really complain about that. Now they just need to fix the God awful Windows Store.

    I've been on Windows 10 for years (since day one actually), it's a better operating system and performs better than its predecessors. I'm sure Microsoft are not selling consoles at a loss and like I said, I am also not buying any peripherals from them which is another loss!

    Microsoft have definitely lost money from me so that's why I think it's bad for them. Depends on how many people have the same mindset/situation as I. I was gearing up to buy an Xbox One before Play Anywhere but now it's off the table.

    You are right that a lot of people don't want to deal with a PC. I have a blind spot to that because I've been dicking around with computers since I was like, 12, (rest in peace, AMD 64 CPU that I bent the pins of).

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    Jesus_Phish

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    They'll still get money out of people for peripherals - Xbox controllers work great on PC, they're probably the best bang for your buck controllers available. You're not going to want to play Forza with a keyboard and mouse - and don't buy a racing wheel.

    I think it's a smart move. I can now give them money that they'd never have gotten before for software titles. I wasn't buying an Xbox to play Gears of War 4. But I just built a new PC and then went out and bought Gears of War 4. I'll buy Cuphead when it's out. I'll probably pick up Sea of Thieves. And I even installed Killer Instinct and might even end up buying a character out of that. And when Forza goes on sale I'll likely pick that up.

    If they can get their 360 games emulated on the Win 10 store I'll be picking up a tonne of games from them.

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    nicksmi56

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    #4  Edited By nicksmi56

    I wouldn't say it's outright bad for Microsoft. They get your money either way. However, it is terrible for the Xbox brand since it's made itself almost completely useless. A lot of people don't want to deal with PCs, yes, but PC gaming is only growing as time goes on so I'm thinking we'll see more and more people care less about that hurdle. People I would've never thought would game at all, much less on PC, have made the switch or use PC as their sole platform. I sat there stunned the other day as my girlfriend's best friend, who's barely touched a video game in her life besides the standard Mario Kart and Party, was stressing about the Steam Sale and whether or not she should get Stardew Valley (she did).

    One of the biggest selling points of buying one console over another is the promise of games you can't get elsewhere. Xbox has effectively removed themselves from that equation. Yes, people who want to play Halo/Gears/Cuphead etc. without bothering with a PC will still get an Xbox, but that number is still less than they would've had if they hadn't implemented it, and it's a number I think will only lessen as more and more people become technologically savvy. This in a console generation where Xbox already has a negative stigma over it carried over from the very beginning with its original plans for Xbox One.

    And to make matters worse, the new Xbox One is now the most expensive console out there!

    It just makes me wonder why they continue to make Xbox while they keep cutting the console off at the legs.

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    WynnDuffy

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    isomeri

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    @nicksmi56: The PC market grew for the first time in half a decade this year. Annual sales of PC hardware are still down 30% from 2011 levels. More and more people are fine with just owning a smartphone or tablet. The vast majority of my friends who play games don't have a PC, or at least not one powerful enough to play modern games.

    I think Play Anywhere is good for everyone. It lets more people experience Xbox exclusive games, and makes the Xbox ecosystem more appealing for everyone.

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    Jesus_Phish

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    @nicksmi56: Anecdotally I know two people who I have sat down, shown them computers that don't cost much that would play games better than a console, told them their games will be cheaper, yet they still don't want a PC because they think it's hassle. Even though consoles now require install times and patches and updates, just like a PC. They still think it's more hassle and they don't want anything to do with it.

    They're both planning on buying Xbox One X's.

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    Fezrock

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    #8  Edited By Fezrock

    @wynnduffy: I'm sure Microsoft isn't selling Xboxs at a loss either, but I doubt the profit margin is very good. CNET had a story back in 2013 that the cost to Microsoft to produce each Xbox One was $471 (https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-squeezes-little-profit-out-of-each-xbox-one), which is why the original price was $499. I suspect that production cost has gotten much lower over time, which is why they've been able to keep cutting the price, but I doubt that $28 profit-margin per unit has ever gotten much better. In fact, I suspect its even closer to the break-even point these days.

    So yeah, they've made some money on Xboxs, but not a huge amount, and its easy to see why they'd want to focus more on software instead. Plus, they're very likely making money if people do buy PCs, and probably more per PC than per Xbox. And there's still a lot of people that simply do not want to get into PCs for gaming (I am not one of them, I only PC game this generation).

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    bigsocrates

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    People who think Play Anywhere is bad don't understand differences between Microsoft and Sony. Sony is, at this point, if not primarily a gaming company then at least a company that's driven by its gaming division. Gaming is a huge part of its revenue and has, at times, been the only division that turned a profit.

    Microsoft is a big 5 tech company that makes money off of operating systems, Office, and cloud computing. Xbox as a division is a very small part of their revenue and will never drive the company. How big is Microsoft? If you combine the value of Sony, Nintendo, Activision, Electronic Arts and most other game companies you can think of (such as Ubisoft, Capcom and Namco-Bandai) you're not even close to Microsoft's value. The only games company that comes close is Tencent, and that's a different market.

    What does this mean? It means that Microsoft is playing a different game as a business than Sony and Nintendo are. Gaming is complimentary to them, not a driver of their company. And because of that, Microsoft is focused on synergies, not maximizing gaming revenue. Play Anywhere does a lot for Microsoft. It encourages ownership of Windows PCs (Steam has been halfheartedly pushing people to switch to Linux but not if you want Halo and Forza.) It encourages use of the Windows Store which, if it can become popular, is more valuable to Microsoft than all of Xbox. Microsoft is licking its chops imagining a Windows version of the Apple Store, where it makes 30% on all software sales for Windows. Pushing people to use the store for gaming is a small step in that direction.

    Microsoft also benefits from gaming as a way for people to like their Windows PCs and think positively about them. Windows is not just the operating system your office makes you use. It's a fun place where you play Forza with your buddies!

    There is likely also a target date somewhere at Microsoft for merging Windows and Xbox permanently. It probably won't be this generation, but I'd be shocked if there's still an independent Xbox OS in 2027. It may not be full, open, Windows but it will be some version.

    Play Anywhere is good for Microsoft and good for gamers. It might be bad for Xbox as an independent brand, but running Xbox independently is a losing proposition for Microsoft. There have been public calls for the Xbox division to be shut down or spun off from the main company. The way forward is to tie Xbox more closely to those core operations. Microsoft seems to be doing that. Minecraft (AKA the program that will make kids like computers) is being tied into the Xbox ecosystem via Live, even on other platforms. All of Microsoft's games are available on the Windows store. Cross play is being experimented with.

    This is a much better vision for Xbox than Don Matrick's weird "TV is dying, let's make Xbox complimentary to TV" idea.

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    Arjailer

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    #10  Edited By Arjailer

    For consumers? Good

    For Microsoft? Good

    They wouldn't be doing it unless they were pretty certain it's going to be a net positive for them. I tend to believe that one of the most successful companies ever know more about their own finances than any of us are ever likely to.

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    WynnDuffy

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    #11  Edited By WynnDuffy

    @arjailer said:

    I tend to believe that one of the most successful companies ever know more about their own finances than any of us are ever likely to.

    This should be the part where someone links to the Nintendo page!

    @nicksmi56 said:

    However, it is terrible for the Xbox brand since it's made itself almost completely useless.

    Exactly, to me the Xbox One is now nothing more than a consumer friendly box that runs a stripped down "walled garden" version of Windows.

    I think they have elevated Sony's platform, rather than try to equal or surpass it. Maybe it seems great for someone with a very poor PC/laptop or just a tablet, but Microsoft lost me as an Xbox owner for sure now. I was original Xbox and Xbox 360 all the way over the last generations.

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    fledeye

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    #12  Edited By fledeye

    If they let you chose, I wouldn't mind and my son is all for it. But since upgrading my crappy laptop to Windows 10, I've had to have the Xbox app which is impossible to uninstall. So it just sits there, taking up hard drive space on a machine that's not capable of actually running an Xbox game, let alone a 360 or Xbone game.

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    TehPickle

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    Since the big money is made through software sales, I'm not too concerned about Microsoft's position here. Having many millions of devoted pc users getting access to games they wouldn't have previously had can really only be a good thing for both parties.

    That said, if MS want this to pay off, they seriously need to overhaul the widows store. I won't buy anything from there until it's on more of the level of Steam, minus the obscene amounts of asset flip shovelware at least. It's just not a service I trust in the slightest, right now.

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    deactivated-633c70ff026e8

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    It's great for everyone including Microsoft. It hurts the Xbox brand a little but I think most normal gamers still enjoy the convenience of a console and Window's is their platform too and it allows their games to be more accessible. I just wished they improved the Windows store at the very least. Consoles themselves don't make money anyways so selling their games on PC was a good move for MS.

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    ajamafalous

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    I'm fairly confident that Microsoft makes more money selling 2-5 Windows Store PC games to someone than they do selling an Xbox to that same person. They don't care where you play; they just want you in their ecosystem. It's insane to me that people keep questioning the way they're headed.

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    OurSin_360

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    I think it can work out, for one minecraft opens them up to be able to sell software on every platform so if they can expand on this then an xbox won't really matter as they will make profit off all hardware by selling first party games. The xbox essentially becomes a windows 10 "steam machine" and if/when they decide to expand their software to allow actual pc games it basically becomes a pc on your television. If they can make the xbox a real crossplatform device where you could play everything, and get their games on other platforms and consoles they could really do something IMO. Or it could fall flat and kick them in the face.

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    WynnDuffy

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    #17  Edited By WynnDuffy

    @ajamafalous said:

    I'm fairly confident that Microsoft makes more money selling 2-5 Windows Store PC games to someone than they do selling an Xbox to that same person. They don't care where you play; they just want you in their ecosystem. It's insane to me that people keep questioning the way they're headed.

    Well, I could be buying an Xbox One, some peripherals and an Xbox Live membership on top of the handful of games I might buy from their bad Windows 10 store.

    I doubt I'll be buying anything from them either way if they continue pricing games on the Windows 10 store the way they did Forza Horizon 3 - which was around $70 equivalent for the standard copy.

    My point is that they are betting on getting a lot of people who would never have entertained the idea of buying an Xbox One, and all of this to me devalues the Xbox brand and is risky. I know the margins on software are much higher and I wasn't disputing it.

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    Arjailer

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    I've seen a few people now (not just in this thread) saying that they won't be buying an Xbox 'cos they can just get the games on PC - but they won't be buying the games on PC either 'cos the Windows Store is crap.

    To me that sounds like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

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    ArtisanBreads

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    #19  Edited By ArtisanBreads

    I don't possibly see what is bad about it unless your in system warz mode.

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    Onemanarmyy

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    #20  Edited By Onemanarmyy

    I think it's quite clever. PC gamers will eventually own enough play anywhere games that if they ever feel the need to play those games in the livingroom, they're more likely to buy an Xbox. And if Xbox owners want to buy a gaming PC, they start out with some of their favorite games available. It seems like a good deal for Microsoft & customers to me.

    As a PC owner, i'm not going to buy an xbox one in the near future because all those games come to PC, but i can imagine once i have 50+ play anywhere games, spending the money on a Xbox (or small formfactor PC) to play those games in the livingroom might be enticing.

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    ajamafalous

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    @ajamafalous said:

    I'm fairly confident that Microsoft makes more money selling 2-5 Windows Store PC games to someone than they do selling an Xbox to that same person. They don't care where you play; they just want you in their ecosystem. It's insane to me that people keep questioning the way they're headed.

    Well, I could be buying an Xbox One, some peripherals and an Xbox Live membership on top of the handful of games I might buy from their bad Windows 10 store.

    I doubt I'll be buying anything from them either way if they continue pricing games on the Windows 10 store the way they did Forza Horizon 3 - which was around $70 equivalent for the standard copy.

    My point is that they are betting on getting a lot of people who would never have entertained the idea of buying an Xbox One, and all of this to me devalues the Xbox brand and is risky. I know the margins on software are much higher and I wasn't disputing it.

    This is like the 'every pirated copy is money the developer would've made' argument in that it doesn't translate 1:1. Not every person who pirates a game would've bought that game instead, and not every person who now decides to buy Microsoft's games on PC would've instead paid an additional $300-500 for an Xbox and peripherals.

    Microsoft would probably even rather you spend the money you would've spent on an Xbox on games instead, because, like we agree, they're going to make way more money selling you $400 worth of games than they would selling you $400 worth of hardware, but even that is a false dichotomy.

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    Noobsmog

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    There are some good points made in this thread, but the real problem I see is that Microsoft is competing with Steam when it comes to PC sales. I have to imagine most of the software sales on ps4/xbox come from 3rd party games; the exclusives are there to get you to buy the console which in turn gets you to buy software on said console. So if you already have a good pc, you can do ps4/pc to play anything but nintendo games, but you can't do it the other way around. In my case specifically I like to play games on a console, so the majority of my purchases are on ps4, with pc filling in the gaps (I havn't bought anything on the windows store mostly because there's nothing that interests me, but I'm not against it). If I were to use the windows store though, it would only be for games exclusive to the windows store.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for this to be a success in my eyes, Microsoft needs to be able to get people to buy 3rd party games on the windows store rather than steam, and I have a hard time seeing that happening.

    There's a decent amount of speculation on my part here, feel free to correct me if anything seems off.

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    bigsocrates

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    @noobsmogy: This is correct in theory. In practice, though, how many people A) have a PC good enough to play modern games B) were going to buy Xbox for the exclusives and C) were then going to buy a bunch of third party software on the machine they only bought for exclusives?

    That number seems low. The people who have the PCs were going to buy the third party games on PC anyway for the most part. You say you like to play on console so you have a PS4, but that's not because PS4 games are only available on PS4, it's because PS4 was the more attractive overall console. You said yourself you aren't even buying the Play Anywhere games on PC so clearly you weren't going to get an Xbox anyway. If you DID get an Xbox you were only going to buy the exclusives on it.

    For people who prefer consoles who like the Xbox exclusives better, they can still get an Xbox. For people who prefer PC they can get the Xbox games on PC (substantially expanding the audience for Forza, Halo, and Gears.)

    You may lose a small number of people who would have bought an Xbox and bought third party games on it, but it's not a ton. And they are balanced on by all the extra games you sell to PC players.

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    tomaac

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    Seems like smart decision and good for everyone. It's more convenient for users and more money for MS.

    Wasn't there a thing, that MS and Sony sell their devices at a loss? They get most income from software sales, memberships and accessories. That would mean that selling the same software on PC without Xbone would just make more money for MS.

    I think it's about mentality not practicality for many gamers. There are a lot of people who still believe, that PC is to much hassle, so they go for a console. MS will not lose those sales. Xbox fans will not just drop their system and run to PC just because you can get the same games there. It will be the other way around. MS is going to jump in on PC software market that has been taken over by Valve/EA/Ubisoft etc. Only by buying the same game on Windows store instead of Steam, you can play it on Xbone as well. If it does not run well on one system, play it on another.

    PC is still a Microsoft's platform. They sell PC hardware as well + Windows almost have monopoly on gaming. Yes, there are some games on Linux/Mac, but who has a Linux gaming PC really?

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