I'm wondering if any fellow bombers have played through Never 7, Remember 11, or Ever 17, and whether you can say if they're worth the trouble to get ahold of and patch?

@tumes said:

I'm wondering if any fellow bombers have played through Never 7, Remember 11, or Ever 17, and whether you can say if they're worth the trouble to get ahold of and patch?

Remember11 has the most in common with VLR and 999. VLR references Never7 in a very minor way.

I played Remember 11 and Ever 17, and I'd like to try Never 7 if I could get my hands on it. If they're not TOO much trouble or money to get, and you liked the way 999 sort of goes off the deep end in some of its endings, I'd recommend them 11 and 17. Neither 11 or 17 have adventure game-like puzzles the way that 999 did, but they do both have story progressions similar to 999 in that as you get closer to the various endings, the plots repeatedly hop back and forth over the line between "This is the craziest, most amazing story I've ever heard," and "Hold up, this has gotten a little out of hand, here." Also, 11 is also a little darker than 17, but neither are quite as grim as 999, if memory serves.

In other words, if you liked 999, give Remember 11 and Ever 17 a shot. If you can play Never 7, go for it, but I can't vouch for its quality, personally. And in case you or anyone else is wondering, you don't need to play them in any particular order. I think they're supposed to technically take place in the same world or something, but have nothing in common in terms of story as far as I can recall.

These are pure visual novels, though, aren't they?

@BlackLagoon said:

These are pure visual novels, though, aren't they?

Yeah.

Loved 999, couldn't get past more than one ending in Ever17. Too much narrative. I like 999's style of interesting narrative then puzzle time.

They're the reason I gave 999 the light of day. Yeah, the Infinity series are straight-up visual novels. Never7 and Ever17 (to a lesser extent) have dating sim elements to them. I'd say Never7 is weak because it's most similar to a dating sim (and a boring one at that), and only interesting going back to it after playing the later titles for the universe implications and final route twist. I would only recommend playing it if you get way into the other titles in the Infinity series as a reference to some of the overarching plot elements.

Ever17 is the title I started with, and the reason I got into visual novels in the first place. You're still doing the whole spending time with girls thing, but the focus is more on the premise, setting, and atmosphere, and the story revelations as you reach that final route and finish are mind-blowing. 999 feels very similar in this regard. It's nothing short of masterpiece, although I still prefer Remember11.

Remember11 is where the romance takes a back seat. It's just a fantastic story that can only be told in a branching visual novel format. It's a constant mind-fuck that you could spend months of replays analyzing every scene (practically every written word) just to fully understand it, to the point where a lot of people decry it for having a bummer of a cliffhanger ending, when in reality it ties everything up exactly the way it was intended to.

Although I believe Kotaro Uchikoshi had a lesser involvement in the story writing for Remember11. Makes sense that 999 seems much more in the style of Ever17.

999 is more of that fantastic writing. There's a point where I almost feel I'd prefer it as a visual novel because redoing those puzzles to get the real ending is tedious as all hell. It's very similar in style, setting things up in a seemingly standard, perhaps cliche scenario and turning completely upside-down in a way you weren't expecting (unless you'd played all those other titles, of course), leading to a triumphant "true" ending path. I feel like there's also parallels to be drawn between the universe in Zero Escape and the Infinity series, such as Cradle Pharmaceuticals vs Leiblich Pharmaceuticals, which make me wonder if they're meant to be one continuity but legal issues prevent that from being the case anymore.

Oh, are they worth getting ahold of? Absolutely. I think the problem is that unless you're willing to outright pirate, nabbing a copy of the English version of Ever17 is now impossible unless you have a bucket of cash. Never7 was actually available for free download earlier last year, but you can nab it for I think $10 and patch it with the English patch. Remember11 would be pricier, but last time I checked the patchable PC version was still available for import. 12Riven... well, probably should buy now and wait for that English patch to come in a couple of years.

@AndrewB: Thanks for the awesome thoughtful response!

Damn they can get a bit pricey. I really wish someone would snatch up US publishing rights on some of these games an release them on iOS or something. Definitely within the realm of technical possibility, and it'd be a way easier sell to get my wife to co-op (If you can co-op a visual novel) them with me (She loved 999, but playing a visual novel on a PC that's connected to our TV is not the most appealing prospect).

I may have to transgress my moral boundaries on obtaining Ever17... Sounds like it'd actually be worth a bucket full of cash though, maybe if I catch a windfall any time soon I can relieve the guilt of potential piracy by getting it after the fact.

Sounds like you got into the genre, can you recommend any other games that hit the same highs, or is his work the best in the field?

@BBAlpert: Thanks for the awesome reply, I'll definitely give the games a shot.

@tumes said:

@AndrewB: Thanks for the awesome thoughtful response!

Damn they can get a bit pricey. I really wish someone would snatch up US publishing rights on some of these games an release them on iOS or something. Definitely within the realm of technical possibility, and it'd be a way easier sell to get my wife to co-op (If you can co-op a visual novel) them with me (She loved 999, but playing a visual novel on a PC that's connected to our TV is not the most appealing prospect).

I may have to transgress my moral boundaries on obtaining Ever17... Sounds like it'd actually be worth a bucket full of cash though, maybe if I catch a windfall any time soon I can relieve the guilt of potential piracy by getting it after the fact.

Sounds like you got into the genre, can you recommend any other games that hit the same highs, or is his work the best in the field?

It's definitely frustrating. I love it to death, but all I can do is say "hey, this thing is amazing, but good luck finding it!" There's a verrrry slim possibility that the Xbox 360 version of Ever17 that was recently released in Japan might make it over here through someone like Aksys, but I feel like they'd have announced something by now if that was going to be the case. Even with the cult following, it's tough to sell non-Asian countries on visual novels, and at least 999 had the puzzle element to trick people into thinking they weren't playing one. Also, that 360 version toys with the story and the original writers had no involvement, so it wouldn't be the same experience.

Besides Katawa Shoujo, I haven't finished a VN that wasn't a part of the Infinity series. I've tried CrossChannel on and off because it's supposed to have an interesting sci-fi element, but 90% of it has been creepy pervy writing so it's been tough. I've tried acquiring MuvLuv on suggestion from resident VN authorities, but haven't had success.

Besides that, I've been dying to see projects by Takumi Nakazawa (director and co-scenario writer for the Infinity series) like Root Double, I/O, and Myself ; Yourself, but English translations of those seem a distant thing. There's one in progress for I/O which is actually putting 12Riven on the backburner... so I don't know how I feel about that.

Oh, there's one other option I'd suggest. There's entire playthroughs of Ever17 on Youtube. Though you won't be able to make decisions yourself, you can at least experience the story.

@AndrewB said:

Besides that, I've been dying to see projects by Takumi Nakazawa (director and co-scenario writer for the Infinity series) like Root Double, I/O, and Myself ; Yourself, but English translations of those seem a distant thing. There's one in progress for I/O which is actually putting 12Riven on the backburner... so I don't know how I feel about that.

12Riven is a terrible game. I/O is not.

@Bocam said:

12Riven is a terrible game. I/O is not.

Yeah, I already know it's not as good as 17 or 11, but it's the only part of the series I haven't finished yet and the last "real" one there will ever be. Plus, the first script file was already translated before it was taken down so I've already seen enough to pique my interest. Like I said, I know factually that the Ever17 remake is kinda terrible and non-canon (at least in any rational person's mind), but I still want to see it, too.

But I'm equally excited for anything either of those guys are involved in.

There is one thing I feel I should note about Ever 17, in defense of something that happens near the very, very, very end of the true ending (although I will make this as absolutely vague and nonspecific as possible). At a certain point you find out about a certain something or someone with a really dumb sounding name. I thought that this was just weird writing or a bad translation, but apparently that weird name means something in another language or is some previously existing term. So what looks at first glance like it might be a mistake or inaccuracy is in fact evidence of potentially a greater deal of background research (in the same way that a lot of people, myself included, wrongfully gave James Cameron a lot of shit for using the term "unobtanium" in Avatar).

The wording in question isn't really important to the plot or anything, it's just something that stuck out to me as "huh, well that's kind of funny sounding. I wonder why they decided to call it that..."

If you've finished the game but still don't know what I'm referring to, I'm talking about Blick Winkel.

@BBAlpert said:

I'm talking about Blick Winkel.

It means "perspective" in German. But yeah, it does sound goofy in English; maybe goofier when mixed in with Japanese.

@AndrewB: Awesome, thanks. Just now noticed your avatar, whom my wife cosplayed as at the last Pax. Great stuff!

@AndrewB said:

@tumes said:

@AndrewB: Thanks for the awesome thoughtful response!

Damn they can get a bit pricey. I really wish someone would snatch up US publishing rights on some of these games an release them on iOS or something. Definitely within the realm of technical possibility, and it'd be a way easier sell to get my wife to co-op (If you can co-op a visual novel) them with me (She loved 999, but playing a visual novel on a PC that's connected to our TV is not the most appealing prospect).

I may have to transgress my moral boundaries on obtaining Ever17... Sounds like it'd actually be worth a bucket full of cash though, maybe if I catch a windfall any time soon I can relieve the guilt of potential piracy by getting it after the fact.

Sounds like you got into the genre, can you recommend any other games that hit the same highs, or is his work the best in the field?

It's definitely frustrating. I love it to death, but all I can do is say "hey, this thing is amazing, but good luck finding it!" There's a verrrry slim possibility that the Xbox 360 version of Ever17 that was recently released in Japan might make it over here through someone like Aksys, but I feel like they'd have announced something by now if that was going to be the case. Even with the cult following, it's tough to sell non-Asian countries on visual novels, and at least 999 had the puzzle element to trick people into thinking they weren't playing one. Also, that 360 version toys with the story and the original writers had no involvement, so it wouldn't be the same experience.

Besides Katawa Shoujo, I haven't finished a VN that wasn't a part of the Infinity series. I've tried CrossChannel on and off because it's supposed to have an interesting sci-fi element, but 90% of it has been creepy pervy writing so it's been tough. I've tried acquiring MuvLuv on suggestion from resident VN authorities, but haven't had success.

Besides that, I've been dying to see projects by Takumi Nakazawa (director and co-scenario writer for the Infinity series) like Root Double, I/O, and Myself ; Yourself, but English translations of those seem a distant thing. There's one in progress for I/O which is actually putting 12Riven on the backburner... so I don't know how I feel about that.

Oh, there's one other option I'd suggest. There's entire playthroughs of Ever17 on Youtube. Though you won't be able to make decisions yourself, you can at least experience the story.

If you're looking for VNs to play, I would recommend 07th Expansion's works Higurashi and Umineko. You probably might have heard of Higurashi from it's anime adaption, but it is originally from a sound/visual novel by Ryukishi (the writer). It has the murder mystery elements along with psychological horror elements. It has a localized version by MangaGamer which is on their website and they are also trying to get it on Steam by way of the Greenlight program.

My favorite out of the two is definitely Umineko, though, due to the fantastic soundtrack, interesting concepts, and great characters. Umineko also has some similarities with 999, VLR, and Ever17 in that you have a group of people trapped in an area with no contact to the outside world. There isn't an "official" localization of that, but you can buy the original Japanese game digitally then use WitchHunt's English patch to play the game.