We're all looking forward to Fez, right?
Phil Fish's mind bender was built on XNA Game Studio, Microsoft's widely applauded development toolset. Every game that's published within Xbox Live's Indie Games store was created using XNA.
Microsoft started rolling out details on the next iteration of Windows 8 this week, the latest update to its operating system. Tested's Will Smith has a detailed writeup of an early build that's surprisingly promising, but game developers became vocal on Twitter this week over word coming down that XNA wouldn't work in Windows 8--at all.
That's only partially true. Here the statement Microsoft provided to me:
“XNA Game Studio remains the premier tool for developing compelling games for both Xbox LIVE Indie Games and Windows Phone 7; more than 70 Xbox LIVE games on Windows Phone and more than 2000 published Xbox LIVE Indie Games have used this technology. While the XNA Game Studio framework will not be compatible with Metro style games, Windows 8 offers game developers the choice to develop games in the language they are most comfortable with and at the complexity level they desire. If you want to program in managed C#, you can. If you want to write directly to DirectX in C++, you can. Or if you want the ease of use, flexibility, and broad reach of HTML and Javascript, you can use that as well. Additionally, the Windows 8 Store offers the same experience as the current App Hub marketplace for XNA Game Studio, providing a large distribution base for independent and community game developers around the world.”
Here's what that means: XNA cannot be used to create "Metro" style software, so anything built on XNA cannot be sold in the "Metro" application store rolling out alongside Windows 8. It's still an unfortunate turn of events, as the new "Metro" layout is the centerpiece of Windows 8 and epitomizes Microsoft's big push to spin its new interface across multiple platforms.
"Metro" applications are not meant to as ambitious as traditional applications--more focused, directed. And as Microsoft points out, there is still a marketplace for their wares, in addition to the regular ol' Internet.
If developers want to continue working with XNA, those games will play just fine within Windows 8, but if they'd like to be part of the "Metro" storefront, they'll have to turn towards other options. It's not the best scenario, but it's not the worst, either.
To get a better sense of Windows 8 and Microsoft's new "Metro" layout, watch Tested's hands-on.
I still need to take a closer look at Windows 8.
Kinda sucks.
Hmm as if Microsoft wasn't shafting XNA/Indie game developers enough already. Developers who make XNA games (despite 90% being total shit) have my deepest respect.
Well, it makes sense... XNA is for making games, and C#/XAML and HTML5/CSS/JavaScript are for making Metro apps. It does kind of suck that you can't sell your XNA games in the store, but there's always Steam, and, y'know, your own website.
But are the people who are enthusiastic about Metro even the same people that would be buying XBL Indie Games in the first place? I like the interface and all, but I don't see launching a desktop application outside of the Metro start screen as a problem in the slightest if I'm looking to buy/play these games.
That's not true at all. Anything can be sold in the Windows Store (both legacy applications and Metro-style apps). The only difference is that Microsoft may take a cut from sales (similar to Apple) with legacy applications, but they will not take any cut from Metro apps.
This isn't a big deal. XNA apps, like any app, could theoretically be listed in the store, you just can't directly buy, install and patch them through that store. But you also can't do that with quicken, photoshop, etc... Although it is more powerful than what im about to describe, the metro stuff I saw at the build conference this week essentially boils down to a super start menu with embedded widgets. Games, and hardcore apps like photoshop, office, programming tools, etc will still use the traditional desktop and this is where games will reside as well...
I think it needs to be keep in mind that the "Windows Store" will also sale non-Metro style applications. The way it was demonstrated at the BUILD keynote it that those apps will have a listing but link to an external site. So basically somebody browsing the store can still find apps that aren't provided by the store. I think the example they uses was Quicken or some other business-type app.
With XBL coming to Windows 8 and I'd be shocked if there wasn't some sort of game discoverablity / purchasing options although I haven't seen it yet.
It's stupid that Microsoft is basically shoehorning their own technology like that. Especially the fact that you can develop Metro apps with C# but not with XNA is really strange, as XNA is just a C# framework. XNA is a great framework that makes programming games a lot easier, so why would they limit themselves like that?
@takua108: XNA uses C# so that is not Metro exclusive. One can write a Metro app in C++, HTML/Javascript, or any of the .NET languages. Microsoft is trying to give programmers a clean slate in Windows 8 by forcing all Metro apps to use their WinRT (WinRT demystified: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Sep-15.html). Miguel de Icaza states "Microsoft has created a cool new UI library called WinRT and they have made it easy to consume from .NET, Javascript and C++ and if you adhere by their guidelines, they will publish the app on their appstore."
Only took 20 minutes to install Windows 8. Spent 10 minutes looking for the off button (Not because I didn't like it, I just couldn't find the damned thing!)
XNA was always more of a Xbox Indie development platform so this makes sense. At least Windows 8 should come with a .Net framework capable of running XNA games which theoretically makes installing XNA games on Windows less painful.
I'm guessing APIs to get your programs into the W8 store will eventually find their way to XNA tools. I'm not worried.
Actually its not true that only Metro apps will be sold via the store. All traditional applications based on XNA(which is C# based) & even C++ apps will be sold Via the store i.e. MS wont host the files(i.e. games in this case) but will provide a link to which to download from. This allows them to recieve the recognition most of them deserve but MS does not charge a cut as they are not hosting the files which only seems fair.
Also, by integrating Xbox Live service & UI(as an app) they could potentially open up XNA games to even more folks ( this is my guess & nothing I know has been announced along those lines)
@zebwinz said:
lol had that problem too.
Took me a few minutes to figure out how to leave a fullscreen app other than hitting ctrl-esc as well (had no idea there was a hidden menu bottom left). Not everything is super intuitive for a mouse and keyboard yet ;).
Ugh, I want to play Fez so bad. Does anybody have a more specific idea when that game is actually coming out?
It's pretty sad. I've been developing with xna for almost 4 years now. Kind of breaks my heart a little. The community is great and the developers using xna are great people. Maybe this is the start of the end of xna, maybe not. Still sad...
Not sure I follow. XNA can be used to develop WP7 games, which are then sold in the Metro-themed WP7 Marketplace. What's changed for them to sever links between the two initiatives?
@Rhythm: The WinPhone7 UI is not Metro UI. They are already separate but Metro UI takes cues from the WinPhone7 UI.