The Wrestling Discussion Thread

@sombre: Dude. Timesplitters have been back for a while. The current biggest storyline in Impact is that MCMG wanted to main-event Bound For Glory against each other via Alex Shelley being the champ and Chris Sabin cashing in the X-Division title via Option C, but Lio Rush screwed him over and stole the X-Title. So now their hope is that Kushida, who won the latest Ultimate X, will manage to beat Lio Rush to have a Timesplitters main-event for BFG.

Also, Sanada will be wrestling Jake Something at Emergence in what will surely be a banger.

@sombre: Oh and shit, I completely forgot. Emergence also has Time Machine trying to carry 2023 Bully Ray into a good match.

@retris: Christ on the cross, bully ray is still wrestling?

Saddened for the loss of Bray Wyatt; I remember really enjoying a lot of his stuff

Nevermind that. Motor City Machine Guns! It's a crying shame they've never hit the big feds.

@shindig: What can you offer somebody who isn't wrestling for money? Because good booking sure as shit ain't something the two big American companies can offer. Heck, they're still wrestling in NJPW Strong too.

Edit: I completely forgot what I came here to post. Johnny Swinger has to be one of the greatest late career transformations ever, and the way he manages to keep the character fresh is just unbelievable. Now he's going after the internet belt and it's fucking gold. Hopefully he wins.

You know, if every big event your wrestling company has is preceded and followed by all the attention going to how one wrestler starts shit backstage, maybe that wrestler is not worth it no matter how big of a draw he is.

I'm seeing double, four Jeff Hardys.

I just love Okada as a dickhead heel, dude's so hilarious to me.

This will likely be the only time I post in this thread because I don't really have any interest in watching actual Wrestling. HOWEVER, I do enjoy me a good sports drama. I just finished season 2 of Heels with Stephen Amell and wow I never thought I could get so emotional over a show about Wrestling. Just a fantastic display all around with some really stellar perfomances. You could tell how dedicated the cast was. And what a dang cliffhanger. Starz, don't you dare cancel this darling.

@spacemanspiff00: yup, been a really good season!

Shame about Rick Boogs being let go (and Ziggler)

You absolutely must watch Tsuji vs Ospreay from this morning. No excuses

@toxin066: While Ziggler being let go is a shame, I wonder if he asked for his release because the Nemeth brothers have been making allusions to Ziggler coming to AEW for a couple of weeks now.

@spacemanspiff00: Sorry to say STARZ killed it :(

They are just content to be the channel that people watch POWER and "people banging through time travel" the show.

So Nakajima is leaving NOAH. That's big. Wonder where he'll end up, hopefully not just NJPW.

@dizzyhippos: I'm a sad panda :(

For fuck's sake, why can't they just get rid of Jim Ross? Dude is even worse than Kevin Kelly. My man talked about how Athena, who is 37-0 in singles matches in ROH and the ROH women's champion, needs to just get her game together to get a hot streak.

@retris: Tony's a fanboy and he also absolutely WILL NOT fire anyone unless they, I don't know, go around assaulting people backstage just to name something that a person might do. Will Ross' contract be renewed? Who knows. He's definitely had his role scaled back but he either can't hack it anymore or he refuses to put in the basic work of keeping up with the product and paying attention. Either way his time is gone. They should move him into some other role. Either backstage or just have him do pre-recorded sit down interviews where they can do multiple takes if necessary.

But Tony has shown that he will provide unlimited chances to anyone he likes, especially a legend, unless they absolutely force his hand. And I have not heard any rumors that Jim Ross has violently assaulted even a single executive!

Adam Copeland joining AEW is probably the best since CM Punk got fired. AEW needs a big name for Dynamite/Rampage/Collision. The only thing I hate about Collision is the consistent tag matches in the show like FTR. Fastlane on Saturday which I am hoping Seth Rollins vs Nakamura delivers.

Look I know he and TK are friends and he and Stang are close... I would not of brought Ric Flair in.

@dizzyhippos:Especially after trying to act high and mighty about Vince on social media. I find his coked out twitter rants entertaining, albeit so fucking thin skinned that even Punk would wince, but being this blatantly hypocritical is never a good look.

@psmgamer: It's kinda sad that some people are already attributing the bad ratings on Copeland not being a draw.

@bigsocrates: The biggest thing to me is that JR has said that he doesn't want to just be a backstage interviewer, which is the only role he's good at. I get that he wants to do commentary, but if you're doing commentary at least try to put the product over instead of shit talking it. Every time he's on there he does it: Last Collision he complained about Moxley being too slow on making the save. What's next? Gonna complain about wrestlers running after being Irish whipped?

Speaking of old dead things returning, I never thought I'd see the day that TNA as a brand has accumulated enough positive nostalgy to be permanently brought back. I'm all here for it, Impact Wrestling was always a bad name with no flow. They're firing on all cylinders too, Bound For Glory had two giant banger matches in Ospreay vs. Speedball and Josh vs. Shelley. If y'all missed the former, you need to watch Impact tonight as they're just replaying the full match there.

I still prefer the main-event, as Shelley has to be one of the best storytellers in the ring today. Just every move he does seems like it's a logical part of a story. It's such a "show, don't tell" attitude for wrestling that rarely gets done nowadays. Instead of having matches be saturated with parts where you get soap opera dialogue, he just wrestles in a way that makes you understand his motivations and goals. Just the little details like kicking the injured arm instead of the head in the enziguiri position, fucking immaculate. The only guy who does the same stuff is Swerve and El Hijo del Fantasma too if he was in a company that allowed such things, and those two going against each other is my top dream match currently.

Sting's retirement next year is interesting, I got a chance to see him in 2013 when he was with TNA and Lockdown PPV was at the Alamodome. Didn't like how his career ended in WWE though. I ordered AEW All In 2023 last month and it definitely delivered.

@psmgamer: Sting's retirement could be interesting if they hadn't brought in Rick Flair for some reason. Yes Sting and Flair have a long and rich history but there are other people they probably could have gotten who don't have quite as much baggage.

But to be honest they didn't really need anyone. Sting carved out a nice niche for himself with Darby in AEW and doesn't need to go out as a nostalgia act with Rick Flair. And they better not give Flair a last match because the only thing worse than Flair in AEW would be Flair dying in an AEW ring.

@bigsocrates: Yeah, whose idea was it that Sting's retirement run should center around Ric Flair, a known rapist and racist...

Oh yeah, Tony Khan's because he's a huge Flair mark.

Btw, props for Shida dressing up as Ada Wong against a zombie. I had a chuckle at that.

@bigsocrates: "Your insights on Tony's management approach are intriguing. It's clear he values loyalty, especially with legends like Jim Ross. Ross' future is uncertain, but a shift to a different role could be a win-win. Tony's commitment to providing chances is admirable, as long as things stay peaceful backstage!"

Okada vs Danielson at the Dome

Hell yeah

Because hiring Ric Flair went over so well and didn't make Tony look like a hypocrite at all, Ronda Rousey is now in AEW too. Although it not be a full commitment, this is still a fucking hilarious look on AEW.

Anyone got any recommendations for wrestling companies that aren't willing to do business with sexual abusers and school shooting truthers?

@brian_: Literally no. At best you'd have some indies who are not currently using any known sexual abusers or other scumbags, but that's no guarantee that they wouldn't if the right scumbag presented themself.

To be fair this is pretty much how all companies, at least of a certain size, work. They might eject someone under public pressure ut chances are they will get a chance to come back once the heat has died down. The only people who are permanently kicked to the curb are those who either did something so egregious that the heat will never die down or someone who doesn't provide enough value to be worth the headache to begin with.

I do like that Tony Khan made a big deal about saying Hulk Hogan would NEVER be on AEW and couldn't come to the shows and...I mean the Hulkster is a scumbag for sure but is he significantly worse than the people Khan is employing now? In the end the moral high ground is pretty easy to step off of.

"Glad we got rid of that CM Punk guy. He was just too toxic for our brand."

"So, what's our next move?"

"Get me Ric Flair and Ronda Rousey."

@brian_:High Tension Wrestling I guess? I might be wrong though, but I understood that this was pretty much the reason for the company existing... although I wouldn't be surprised if there were some working backstage.

Interspecies Wrestling has always been pretty chill about it but they have a show once every super full moon. Then you have Mystery Wrestling, the worst they've had is Dan Ryckert This is a joke, I'm not comparing Dan to any of the other people as he is a genuinely unproblematic person.

@brian_: They did not get rid of Punk for being toxic they got rid of him for assaulting company executives and scaring the boss. They let him wrestle in London after the incident there.

If Flair helicoptered his penis in Tony’s face he would be gone too.

Eh. I'm not so sure about that.

He'd definitely sit there looking uncomfortable but that's also his idle animation.

I assume he'd mark out like every other chump and claim something about "the boys being boys".

Eleven matches, only two clean finishes. I feel like AEW only has two kinds of matches nowadays, 10+ minute squash matches where a jobber and a featured wrestler trade moves and then the jobber loses, and over booked Vince (Russo or McMahon) ass every interference, foreign object and ref bump possible matches.

That's a big problem.

Then you've got whoever is booking ROH (It sure as fuck isn't Tony even if takes the credit) trying to come up with coherent storylines only for Tony to unceremoniously kill those because he needs Keith Lee to take pins on the main roster again. Shane Taylor has had several storylines in the past year end abruptly with no conclusion (or in some cases without even a single match happening) just because there seems to be zero communication between the bookers.

WWE looked itself in the mirror and chose DRAMA! I understand the idea of giving the audience what it wants but this feels like hotshotting ratings for likley a couple months at the cost of potential serious damage to company morale and embarrassing incidents. Maybe Punk can behave in WWE. They have more structure, he seems to respect HHH more than TK so maybe he will bring his issues to The Game instead of throwing fists but it feels like a desperation move from a company that shouldn't be desperate.

Maybe WWE thinks it's such a well oiled machine at this point that Punk won't have reason to get upset and if he does it can be handled. He's not going to be able to derail a company this size. Maybe they're right. It's not the call I would have made.

Punk's just moved on from emulating Bret Hart matches, to emulating his career. He kind of did it in reverse order by going to the other company before returning instead of after leaving, but at least he hit the 10-year mark before coming back.

@bigsocrates: The thing is, they have Punk by the balls. Punk needs them more than they need Punk, and they know this. If he gets in a fight with Triple H again, what's he gonna do? Go home and complain on a podcast with Colt Cabana? We already know where that went. Dude has zero bridges left to burn, this is his last chance. Still agree that it's a weird choice, it's like hiring Cornette or trying to push the Funkasaurus as your world champ just because he's on Fox. It's the ol' "controversy creates cash" gambit that rarely works.

@brian_:So, Hulk Hogan 2.0 then?

@retris: I don't think they have Punk by the balls because he doesn't need the money. What's he going to do, go home? Yeah. Just go home. Maybe do podcasts maybe not but he can leave. Now he clearly wants to wrestle (and I'm sure he wants the money) so he does have incentive but I don't know if it's very different than it was in AEW. He did not want to go back to WWE. That's clear. He only did it out of spite and to rehab his reputation.

The other thing with Punk is that he's proven he cannot control himself or his temper. He didn't attack people in AEW and make Tony Khan feel threatened because he was indifferent to his spot there. I think he loved running Collision and he was making a ton of cash and getting great pops. He did it because he couldn't help himself. Maybe the WWE environment will be different. I don't think Hangman Page or Jack Perry's provocations would happen there (not to say that Punk's actions were in any way justified, just that they didn't come completely out of the blue) and maybe Punk respects HHH (even though he dislikes him) enough that he would handle things more professionally if they did, but some people are going to do what they're going to do no matter what the incentives are.

I mean assaulting people is a crime. It's not "not a crime" because it happens in a wrestling office. He didn't get prosecuted but he could have. These were not well considered actions.

In slight defense of WWE I don't think they hired Punk because "controversy drives tickets." I think they did it because fans were chanting his name at shows (for a very long time) and it was a chance to get a big star from "the other team" and maybe draw some Punk loyalists. I believe HHH when he said that the company did it to give the fans what they were asking for.

We'll just have to see if that turns out to have been a wise decision here.

Theres no question that neither of these events would ever have come close to happening in WWE vs AEW. AEW has a wealth of experienced talent, that both of those young men could learn more about wrestling from than anyone, and yet theyve both publically come out and in various interviews said they dont care what veterens think, theyre going to do what they want to do. Obviously thats exactly what hangman said, and in a company sponsored Q&A session, Jack Perry directly said something along the lines of "people like billy gunn are always telling me things about how to set up things differently in my matches, but i dont listen at all, i basically only go over matches with Luchasaurus." To me, that DOES earn a slap in the face. And with Perry, it wasnt like Punk came up to him and choked his ass out from out of nowhere because he wanted to. Numerous high ranking AEW officials at Collision told Perry not to use real glass, including Schiavone, only to get a middle finger in return. Punk was asked by AEW officials to sensibly talk him out of doing such a dangerous stunt on a meaningless hype building saturday show. He wasnt playing the superstar card, he was playing the veteran card and trying to help a young kid in the buisness. So what Perry did with the screaming directly into the camera not only was way more unprofessional than what Punk did (only in this fucked up industry could you ever say that), but honestly, he deserved to get choked out. I dont know any more about the confrontation after they were sepparated or why Lil Tony was "afraid for his saftey." In WWE, i dont care who your dad is, if someone had done what Perry did, they would have been terminated, not just suspended until everyone felt safe and secure that Punk wasnt around to bend him into a pretzel again

@cornfed40: I dunno. I tend to think there's no excuse for beating up your co-workers, other than strict self defense, even if they're immature jerks. Leave that stuff in the 80s. Perry may be an entitled idiot but laying hands on him is not going to fix that or improve the situation, and it's going to create a host of other issues.

Christian outshining Adam Copeland in every single encounter has been a delight to watch.

Honestly fuck CM Punk

I'd be glad to see him gone back to obscurity in 6 months